good for apple. maybe now they will start actually advertising their computers.

Let's hope so, Guest! I definitely think that this sort of division of product makes that more likely.

Will each divison have it's own marketing department?

I wonder how much more money Apple could make if the Design Team were given their own division, and allowed to market their talents to other companies (outside of the computer industry of course).

...namely, in that case, the products were in direct competition with each other, while in this case, the two products complement and enhance each other.

It couldn't be any more obvious, the Mac is being phased out. Engineering talent to the iPod, and a sales guy to head Mac division, trying to get the last few dollars from the Mac zealots with worthless services like .mac and ProCare.

Jobs has already moved on to the next big thing, wonder how long before the Apple Kool Aid drinkers realize the truth.

Definitely better to not have all your eggs in one basket. The introduction of the iPod/iTMS gave Apple some leverage they were formerly lacking to boost the Mac platform and OS X.

Whether or not spinning off iPod into it's own division is a good idea or not will only become clear with time. But I doubt that particular product line will have the staying power the Mac has demonstrated. The speed at which mp3 players will become commoditized is going to be much faster than it took computers (desktop computers, that is). Apple has a good profit history in that type of market but a poor track record in winning the broader philosophical argument.

I'd be more comfortable if they had labelled the new division a "Consumer Electronics" division. Because really, how many squares are there likely to be in an iPod product matrix? Right now they've filled one box with the Mini and three with the larger iPod. I have my doubts about the iPod brand carrying across broad chunks of the consumer electronics spectrum. Sony tried that with "Walkman" and eventually managed to dilute it. But expanding the brand is ultimately what an iPod division will have to do to remain viable, IMO.

I don't know about the public at-large, but since the success of the iPod, I have been kinda seeing Apple as having 3 different divisions anyway: iPod/iTMS, Mac hardware/OS, and then Pro Software (confirmed to me by the recent announcement of Motion). You might add a 4th: Servers/Enterprise. This is just my perception, but it seems that each of these is starting to develop it's own personality.

As previously posted, time will tell if the actual internal organization of this will pay off. Personally, I have high hopes.

Well, there ARE those little things called Apple Stores, which IMO are the greatest form of advertising that Apple could have spent their money on. Macs and OS-X need to be seen, touched, and experienced. Now the potential consumer can wander into an Apple Store and poke around without any trauma.

The proper presentation of actual functioning machines that are equipped with a suite of integrated software apps which can be demoed by dedicated salespersons is far more effective than any 30-second ad. And the iPod is an integral part of this strategy: the iPod has been an effective lure to entice people into the stores-- people who would have NEVER set foot in an Apple store otherwise.

Having two separate divisions is not going to hurt that customer experience. I'm sure they each will come up with some cool new stuff to entice us-- both new and seasoned Mac users, and some PC folks-- to spend more money!

This is an acknowledgement of how society has changed with regard to computers. In the 80's, it was thought that consumers would want a multipurpose unit to do lots of things. Now, it seems that most consumers just want to access the web to get info, buy things, and communicate (chat, email), and to playback (not create/enhance) digital content - that's all that the $700 and cheaper PCs can do. And most businesses (excluding creative, scientific, and high-performance computing) now see PCs as just commoditized Web-based clients to application servers.

This iPod division will make those types of access/playback/ client devices, and it will do it in small handheld and networked devices that cost from $250 to $750. The iPods would be wirelessly networked to TV/displays and speakers, and to home computer networks, the Internet, and even the cellular networks (if Voice-over-wireless IP doesn't get here first). Since you can use it both in your home and on the road, it would be better than a cheap PC! Instead of a market of 1 or 2 PCs per house, it would be 1 iPod per person.

Having an iPod division says to me that Apple has more iPod-like devices coming, whether they be PDA-like devices or communication devices. And if Apple gets the digital life vision right, this is the area of huge growth for both consumers and even businesses.

What does that mean for the Mac? Apple will make its iPod-devices work seamlessly with its Macs (and always be one step ahead of the PC), so having a Mac with an iPod-device will always work more smoothly than with a PC. The widget will no longer just be the Mac, but the whole network of Macs, iPods, TVs, Web-based servers, etc.

Apple will continue to make the Mac the best for those who create digital content (the home creator, the creative market, the scientific/HPC market) through its application software and OS (64-bit, visual and speech GUI, and smart networking) capabilities.

I derive these conclusions from several Apple statements and Apple technology focus.
1. People watch movies on a large-screen TV, not on a PC. People don't put PCs in their living room.
2. The iPod is our low-cost computer.
3. Apple's focus on speech technology (for iPod and Mac), being a better client (for iPod and Mac), Rendezvous (zero-config from iPod to home network), servers (for home and business), Pixlet (for compressing movies), first to move to wireless (802.11x and soon 802.15.3-low-power, great for iPod), Firewire (wired and wireless).

Of course, I could be all wrong, and the Mac division will be closed by next July!

It's not all rosy for iPod/iTunes, besides the iPod battery lawsuits and defective minis, now Napster beats iTunes to Europe. The closed iPod/iTunes system is just as bad an idea as the closed Mac system.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040520/media_music_napster_1.html

Running more switcher add, opening more Apple Stores, as time has proven has not made the goose lay any more golden "Mac" eggs as far as actually gaining market share..

Apple needs to change the fundamentals of the way they do business. Maybe this is the beginning of a whole new era in Mac marketing strategy.

What I would like to see are third party hardware venders such as “Via” getting into the act and producing 970 compatible mother boards and chipsets.
Getting SJobs to relinquish his egotistical stranglehold on hardware as in “controlling the whole widget” would introduce the more traditional driving force of competition. One can only wonder at what a little good old fashion competition would do for market share, not to mention quality. Via has consistently produced more stable higher performance chipsets that what AMD was able to produce.

I think Apple would stand to make a fortune just selling the OS to an ever expanding Mac market share..

Anyways I would like to see Apple become a viable and affordable alternative to the Wintell camp. I would like to someday purchase a Mac; however, I feel at this time it would be analogous to jumping out of the kettle into the fire, from the monopolistic world of Microsoft to the megalomaniacal monopoly of SJobs and his grip of death on the incredible shrinking Mac…. Like the rest of you this has got me scratching my head..wondering??????

Any comments are welcome..

Thanks for posting on this Mac forum, I love how you grab all this good information and try to make it negative...good job, trying to come up with all of this crap sparks creativity. One would say Reality Check...

a. is a loser and needs a life.
b. loves Macs and thus, showing why he's so informed.
c. cannot afford a Mac and that is why he's so bitter.
d. is...well, all of the above.

:: djmacdaddy ::

To quote Bryan:

“The situations between the Mac vs. Apple II divisions and the iPod vs. Mac divisions are almost precisely analogous. Couple that with Steve Jobs' comment in 1997, before he came back to Apple, about milking the Mac for as long as possible while moving on to the next big thing, and it does give one cause to think”

Well Bryan, you have me thinking..anyways..

Am I mistaken or is this not what happen to the Cube…which was not so long ago. Here was a headless Mac of sorts, it had such great potential, but priced right out of the market..a proverbial milking of the "Cash Cow"

Check out paul thurott's take on the new ipod division and the slowdown in osX development for a good laugh, or alternatively how about we blast him for his dumbass take?

Quote

Guest wrote:
Check out paul thurott's take on the new ipod division and the slowdown in osX development for a good laugh, or alternatively how about we blast him for his dumbass take?

Here is the link:

Paul Thurrott Link

And here is a quote from Uncle Paul;
In related news, Apple announced this week that it will split the company, operationally, into two parts, separating the people who develop iPod-related products from those who work on the company's flailing Macintosh computers. The move corroborates opinions, including that of yours truly, that Apple is slowly shedding its computer-maker roots to concentrate on consumer electronics, and the company is expected to make a series of consumer-electronics-related announcements next month at an annual developer show. Furthermore, Apple's Chief Software Technical Officer Avie Tevanian revealed last week that the company can't afford to keep up its Mac OS X development pace and will scale back those efforts. Presumably, the high-margin iPods and the popular iTunes Music Store service have given company a bigger Return on Investment (ROI) than slogging it out with Microsoft in an unwinnable OS battle."


Another 6 months and Apple will start to gain market share like you never thouth possible, and these characters like Paul T will be revealed for the fools that they are..I can't wait.....


[Edit: Made the URL into a shorter link - Bryan]

Well no matter what RC posts it doesn't change the fact that after all this time iPods still fly off the shelves as fast as Apple can make them. And the public's positive experiences with their iPods are creating a revival of interest in Apple's other products (i.e. computers). This drives RC crazy. As long as he's still here, we'll know things are looking up for Apple!

One guest made the very PC suggestion:

Quote

Guest wrote:
What I would like to see are third party hardware venders such as “Via” getting into the act and producing 970 compatible mother boards and chipsets.

This sounds to me like Mac OS X on 386 lite. Much of the technology on the motherboard is in the memory/peripheral controller which is engineered by Apple. I think this idea would be a big money looser for Apple, Via would represent the "Return of the Clones". Apple does so much of the research that is done by Intel/AMD/VIA in the PC world. I see little chance that the volume will ever allow this to be a profitable strategy for Apple, which is the important issue.

Quote

Guest wrote:
Getting SJobs to relinquish his egotistical stranglehold on hardware as in “controlling the whole widget” would introduce the more traditional driving force of competition. One can only wonder at what a little good old fashion competition would do for market share, not to mention quality. Via has consistently produced more stable higher performance chipsets that what AMD was able to produce.

Why the bitter personal reaction to Jobs. He, at least builds and honest product. Something that you can not say about Gates. M$ reminds me of other "successful" american companies, e.g. Intel, Harley Davidson, GMC, old IBM, all marketing and minmal engineering.

Quote

Guest wrote:
I think Apple would stand to make a fortune just selling the OS to an ever expanding Mac market share..

Apple may be making progress slowly in the Server maket, but it would take a massive change in culture of buisnessmen for iMacs to replace the PC as the workstation of choice in the American Corporation. I do not think Jobs plays golf.

Quote

Guest wrote:
Anyways I would like to see Apple become a viable and affordable alternative to the Wintell camp. I would like to someday purchase a Mac; however, I feel at this time it would be analogous to jumping out of the kettle into the fire, from the monopolistic world of Microsoft to the megalomaniacal monopoly of SJobs and his grip of death on the incredible shrinking Mac…. Like the rest of you this has got me scratching my head..wondering??????

One big difference is that M$ is as dishonest a company as you can find, Apple builds an honest product. I think this is a needed change because the iPods and Macs hve different markets, different marketing, and different engineering. Remember that the basic engineering on the iPod was done out of house.

[quote="greybeard"]
This sounds to me like Mac OS X on 386 lite. Much of the technology on the motherboard is in the memory/peripheral controller which is engineered by Apple. I think this idea would be a big money looser for Apple, Via would represent the "Return of the Clones". Apple does so much of the research that is done by Intel/AMD/VIA in the PC world. I see little chance that the volume will ever allow this to be a profitable strategy for Apple, which is the important issue.]

Hypothetical scenario:

Let say marketing research indicates that with out a doubt, bringing back the clones would help revitalize the Mac market, increasing sales and market share, Good for IBM, in the big picture good for Apple, and of course now we have a truly affordable option for windows “the world” users to explore the Mac and OSX. The question is:

If it was up to you, would you say yes lets go for it..bring back the clones this time for good???

"Apple builds an honest product"

are you on crack? apple is not a lot different than M$. steve jobs is well known for his doublespeak, apple is infamously slow to aknowledge problems, has a difficult time living up to its claims/promises and doesn't often listen to its customers.

iPod Mini quality issues?

iPod battery issues?

faulty iBooks en masse?

worlds fastest computer stunt (still lmao)

single mouse button?

I mean, it goes on and on.

I am not anti-apple. in fact i quite like their products. (i own a g5, tiBook and iPod). But the fact that many of you raise apple to the heights of the greek and roman gods is absolutely foolish. it is hero worship plain and simple. give it a rest. apple is just a business aiming for your money. no more, no less.

Unfortunately, there are zealots on both sides of the fence. I certainly don't think that everything that Apple does is perfect, nor do I think most of the TMO crowd. Sure, we like to pat Apple on the back when appropriate, but if they screw up, we'll point it out.

As for the issues that were brought up, in this day and age, it is an unfortunate truth that a relatively few individuals can give the perception that a problem is a lot larger than it is. People that are happy with their product rarely speak up; it is the one's that are pissed off that make the most noise.