Why would he think piracy would be a problem? where talking over 20 GB per movie on HD DVD. trying to download that would take a long time even for broadband users and that will exceed any broadband company traffic tap.

Plain and simple. Apparently it's OK to make macs with CD burners when all that can be copied are high quality audio. But when it's "his" movies, well that's going to far.

He doesn't get it either. I hope the tech companies give him and the rest of the industry the figner and make the drives. If he doesn't want to put them out and let people use them as they like, he's free to do so.

But people should be free to buy hiquality products and actually use them the way THEY WANT TO and not the way steve dip#$%^ jobs thinks is "elegant" or "appropriate."

I'm sure he's creaming at the thought of all the young kids that will scratch their Nemo discs and be forced to repurchase another copy rather than let the parents backup a copy.

He's so totally a microsoft wannabe, i think he creames to bill gates envy.

Even if it means crippling the hardware....that is so "SJobs". That is so SJobs!!! I think we are getting closer to that day when the "Troops" are going to rally. And "Save the Mac" will be thier battle cry.

Some of you guys have got to be seeing the light. The Mac is to good to be allowed to be "Milked" into oblivion.

Personally, I think his public stance is a negotiating tactic: given that he is the first person to have successfully proven downloads to be a viable business model, that his fairly non-draconian attitude about DRM in music files alarmed many in the content industry, and that his track record proves he has the resources to make it happen technologically, many in Hollywood see him as something of an an enemy sympathizer. To allow any of them to sit down at a table with him without alienating other powers in the vastly paranoid film community, he HAD to have a public stance that showed he had their interests in mind. Whether he actually believes in it or not, I'm sure that only his hairdresser knows for sure. Cross your fingers.

It's pretty bogus - now Jobs seems to want to screw Mac users by locking down digital content!! NO, Steve, I don't want to pay more for less functionality just so you can try to prevent me from burning a backup copy of Toy Story. Nor do I want you to try to make it so that I can't play DVD's on my Linux box.

I also don't think you really understand - it's actually impossible to protect digital content from being reproduced, as long is it is converted into video or audio at some point. You can make it harder to do so, but once you have an audio or video stream, the cat is really out of the bag.

Nor is it particularly rational for computer companies to cripple recordable optical formats so that they can't easily reproduce movies or music - this is what killed MD-data (it was not interoperable with MD audio) and it has been an annoying limitation of recordable DVD media (single rather than dual-layer) as well - why should Hollywood make it harder for me to make backups of *my own data*?

Just say no to stupidity and copyright mania!!

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MonkeyT wrote:
Personally, I think his public stance is a negotiating tactic: given that he is the first person to have successfully proven downloads to be a viable business model, that his fairly non-draconian attitude about DRM in music files alarmed many in the content industry, and that his track record proves he has the resources to make it happen technologically, many in Hollywood see him as something of an an enemy sympathizer. To allow any of them to sit down at a table with him without alienating other powers in the vastly paranoid film community, he HAD to have a public stance that showed he had their interests in mind. Whether he actually believes in it or not, I'm sure that only his hairdresser knows for sure. Cross your fingers.

I think you are right on the money that this is a sj strategy. I think you are wrong that it's a "war." As if sj was going to crusade and leverage any pull he has for "us" or "apple.' It's all a power play for stevejobs and no one else. He doesn't care about anyone but himself. He's an extremely selfish prick that has no problem f'ing over his best friends over a few $ even when that friend helped making him one of the richest people in the world. (I'm talking of how he stiffed/lied to Steve Wozniak over a a few bux while working at atari, to self-agrandize himself (as if he could do somethign technically--he cannot) and for the outright greed of it).

Make no mistake. Steve jobs is not a good person in any moral sense. He is a typical ego-complexed selfish guy. He fits the mold and follows the pattern very predictably. Now he may be great at assembling talented people adn getting/motivating them to produce great things. Granted. Kudos for that. But in almost every other important way in life, he's a bad person (again, in every moral sense of that word).

This is no war. This sj trying to move himself and get somethng for himself. Nothing more. And perhaps something less.

I can understand S Jobs position - it's not about you making a copy of a rental movie you really like, it's about making available the facilities to allow major illegal copying of HD movies. Illegal production of copyrighted materials is going on at a major level, especially in countries that "turn their back" of those activities.

So what did Steve really say? Hold off until the technology can prevent a mass of counterfeit copies hitting the market.

By the way; when I was in the Navy in the mid-60's we went to a certain port where LPs were 25 cents and books went from 25 cents to a dollar. They were sold right on the street and officials only wanted to ensure they got their tax dollars from it.

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kenaustus wrote:
I can understand S Jobs position - it's not about you making a copy of a rental movie you really like, it's about making available the facilities to allow major illegal copying of HD movies. Illegal production of copyrighted materials is going on at a major level, especially in countries that "turn their back" of those activities.

So what did Steve really say? Hold off until the technology can prevent a mass of counterfeit copies hitting the market.

By the way; when I was in the Navy in the mid-60's we went to a certain port where LPs were 25 cents and books went from 25 cents to a dollar. They were sold right on the street and officials only wanted to ensure they got their tax dollars from it.

What a bunch of bunk. That was the same premise that had the industry crying that the VCR was going to kill the movie industry. People have LEGITIMATE reasons for copying stuff they BUY. The people that pirate, they will always find ways around this. In the mean time, youre going to annoy the honest people.

Don't forget, the industry was crying that movie rentals were theft too. The rental industry made them more money over time than the movies in normal release. The only people with a record of lying here are the media industry leaders who have LIED about the consequences of copying at every turn. Get this too. They do not have any RIGHT to lock up their content. They are constitutionally decreed to be provided with an incentive to produce high quality works so that the public can enjoy the works in as many ways and as cheaply as possible. THEY are the ones breaking the edicts of the constitution by gorging way beyond the constitutional tenants that were set out.

The DMCA and other such bought/bribed legislation is constitutionally invalid on a number of technical reasons, but perhaps most importantly by defeating the spirit of the exchange struck out by the constitution.

Just because some people will use technology poorly, doesn't mean you ban the technology. Some people will kill with sharp knives, that doesn't mean you legislate that you can only produce dull knives. These are tools. People will choose to use them for ill and for good. CHOOSING for us is a very orwellian thing to do. But considering what a big f'n hypocrite sjobs is, none of this comes as a surprise.

What comes as a surprise is how many mac zealots will kiss his a$$ no matter what stupid s$%^ he does or says and be non-thinking zombie apologists.

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kenaustus wrote:
I can understand S Jobs position - it's not about you making a copy of a rental movie you really like, it's about making available the facilities to allow major illegal copying of HD movies. Illegal production of copyrighted materials is going on at a major level, especially in countries that "turn their back" of those activities.

So what did Steve really say? Hold off until the technology can prevent a mass of counterfeit copies hitting the market.

By the way; when I was in the Navy in the mid-60's we went to a certain port where LPs were 25 cents and books went from 25 cents to a dollar. They were sold right on the street and officials only wanted to ensure they got their tax dollars from it.

What a bunch of bunk. That was the same premise that had the industry crying that the VCR was going to kill the movie industry. People have LEGITIMATE reasons for copying stuff they BUY. The people that pirate, they will always find ways around this. In the mean time, youre going to annoy the honest people.

Don't forget, the industry was crying that movie rentals were theft too. The rental industry made them more money over time than the movies in normal release. The only people with a record of lying here are the media industry leaders who have LIED about the consequences of copying at every turn. Get this too. They do not have any RIGHT to lock up their content. They are constitutionally decreed to be provided with an incentive to produce high quality works so that the public can enjoy the works in as many ways and as cheaply as possible. THEY are the ones breaking the edicts of the constitution by gorging way beyond the constitutional tenants that were set out.

The DMCA and other such bought/bribed legislation is constitutionally invalid on a number of technical reasons, but perhaps most importantly by defeating the spirit of the exchange struck out by the constitution.

Just because some people will use technology poorly, doesn't mean you ban the technology. Some people will kill with sharp knives, that doesn't mean you legislate that you can only produce dull knives. These are tools. People will choose to use them for ill and for good. CHOOSING for us is a very orwellian thing to do. But considering what a big f'n hypocrite sjobs is, none of this comes as a surprise.

What comes as a surprise is how many mac zealots will kiss his a$$ no matter what stupid s$%^ he does or says and be non-thinking zombie apologists.

the reason he wants to delay hd dvd is that the itunes music store will soon be the itunes MOVIE store. current movies are what- 5-7GB and could be downloaded from itunes. HD is too large and would squash download services if it becomes the standard. why do you think itunes started running trailers & music video? they are warming up.

Maybe he should worry about updating his macs, his software and increasing profit share instead to make sure the mac doesn't become extinct.

I love my mac..... but some of this is assinine.

This is Steve turning his stance around now that it involves Pixar. What a crock. I can just see it now...all the PCs of the world have an option of an included HD-DVD burner, but not the precious Mac.

I'm starting to get less impressed with Mr. Jobs as time goes on. He may still be a great visionary, but we're not seeing the fruition that we used to. Now, he wants to hinder the technological move forward. Great. Just great.

Whoever controls/determines encryption/protection in this format will be a very powerful player. This could be where Microsoft is trying to make a move as the chief provider of DRM for HDDVD. I am sure MS would love for HDDVD to pretty much end up an extended version of WMA. I know the article doesn't speak directly to this, but I just wonder if this is a big bone of contention.

There are actually two Steve Jobs now. The real Steve Jobs died in an Apple power struggle in the 90s. He was successfully cloned as "Good Jobs" and then returned to power at Apple. But in a freak accident during the cloning process, "Bad Jobs" was created - who went on to Next, and eventually ruled over Pixar.

Everybody wonders how one man could be the CEO of two huge companies...well, ONE MAN can't. It's a power struggle between Good and Bad Jobs.

Its really to early to say that he would hinder the release of the technology. By the time this stuff hits the market I,m sure there will be some sort of copy protection in place. Its going to be awhile before we can have them anyway, and then only a very small percentage of people will buy the HD players. It will simply be way to expensive for most people, remember the first DVD players...$500-800, and basic movies $30-40. It took 3 years for prices to come down.
Not to mention....you need an HDTV

A technological fix to stop chinese commercial pirates is beyond fantasy, and SJ knows it. Maybe he wants to help Hollywood to kill itself by making the consumer so frustrated with movies that they go and play videogames or other PC based media instead.

Don't ya just love a democracy. I'm not voting for SJobs again. Two terms is enough! Is it not the limit?

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Guest wrote:
What a bunch of bunk. That was the same premise that had the industry crying that the VCR was going to kill the movie industry.

Yeah thats a great analogy. Except your leaving out one little difference between then and now: the Internet.

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Guest wrote:
People have LEGITIMATE reasons for copying stuff they BUY.

Riiigght... Like what? Just so I can say I did?

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Guest wrote:
They are constitutionally decreed to be provided with an incentive to produce high quality works so that the public can enjoy the works in as many ways and as cheaply as possible. THEY are the ones breaking the edicts of the constitution by gorging way beyond the constitutional tenants that were set out.

Dude I'm all out of tin foil. Do you have any extra I could have?

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Guest wrote:
What comes as a surprise is how many mac zealots will kiss his a$$ no matter what stupid s$%^ he does or says and be non-thinking zombie apologists.

Yeah cause he's really screwed up Apple since he came back. His track record says it all. Remember: Steve works in mysterious ways.

YOU: Yeah thats a great analogy. Except your leaving out one little difference between then and now: the Internet.

Yea and in between the VCR they cried for paper rolls, radio, tapes, all which didn't exist until they did. There is no difference. You're just dumb.

ME: People have LEGITIMATE reasons for copying stuff they BUY.
YOU:Riiigght... Like what? Just so I can say I did?

No, like DVDs get damaged you freakn' piece of dung beatle excrement. Particularly by kids that re-watch Nemo a million times a day.

YOU: Dude I'm all out of tin foil. Do you have any extra I could have?

Bend over and take a good look up the brown star between your legs. If you see something shiney there, there's your supply.

YOU: Yeah cause he's really screwed up Apple since he came back. His track record says it all. Remember: Steve works in mysterious ways.

When he arrived Apple had roughly 5% marketshare. Now it's under 2. GOOD JOB!

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Guest wrote:
Yea and in between the VCR they cried for paper rolls, radio, tapes, all which didn't exist until they did. There is no difference. You're just dumb.

Say what now? I'm sorry I thought it was obvious, but I guess I was wrong. See if Joe Shmoe copied a movie with his awesome VCR then like wow he has one copy. Now he can make a digital copy and easily make it available for distribution worldwide using this thing called the Internet. See the difference yet?

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Guest wrote:
No, like DVDs get damaged you freakn' piece of dung beatle excrement. Particularly by kids that re-watch Nemo a million times a day.

Yeah your average parents are gonna make backup copies of their media. Uh-huh. Sounds more like something elitist geeks want to do to "stick it to the man".

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Guest wrote:
When he arrived Apple had roughly 5% marketshare. Now it's under 2. GOOD JOB!

Yeah it sure has taken a long time to undo the damage that occured in the 90's! It's pretty amazing Steve is pulling it off! How many revolutions has he started in the last few years? Apple's popularity is soaring. Oh and boy Pixar is doing real bad too.

You know if you come here so often, you could always register a user name. Its not very hard. It only takes a couple of minutes. Less time than it will take for you to think up a response to this post!

YOU: Say what now? I'm sorry I thought it was obvious, but I guess I was wrong. See if Joe Shmoe copied a movie with his awesome VCR then like wow he has one copy. Now he can make a digital copy and easily make it available for distribution worldwide using this thing called the Internet. See the difference yet?

Paper rolls could be mass produced with perfect fidelity. It was basically digtital reproduction. Same sky is falling argumetns basically a century ago. Ae you seeing that you're sucking on tired arguements like a lacky yet?

YOU: Yeah your average parents are gonna make backup copies of their media. Uh-huh. Sounds more like something elitist geeks want to do to "stick it to the man".

Yea, it's so tough with ONE BUTTON backups!?! You clearly have not tried the latest DVD backup solutions. Any geek that wants to stick it to the man will not need help from sjobs and his retarded measures as Hymn reliably shows. The only ones that will be screwed are consumers that have legitimate reasons for moving the content THEY BOUGHT to view in a manner and way they enjoy and not one foisted on them by some entity that makes the MAN look like a pansy.

YOU: Yeah it sure has taken a long time to undo the damage that occured in the 90's! It's pretty amazing Steve is pulling it off! How many revolutions has he started in the last few years? Apple's popularity is soaring. Oh and boy Pixar is doing real bad too.

Yea let's see. Steve Wozniak invents/popularizes the all in one PC. Steve Jobs tries his hardest to kill it for a 10,000 computer, the ideas for which were all pilfered from Xerox. He manages to go from effectively 100% of the PC market, to under 20 in short order. After he almost buries the company with his blunders (LISA, Apple 3, trying to kill the Apple 2 cash cow, alienating every employee, not compensating founding employees, stealing ideas) he steals the originator of the Mac and boots him. Finally the board boots his ass, and he starts a revolutionary company selling a 10,000 computer to STUDENTS ONLY! Genius. He re-pilfers stuff he saw at xerox and builds on decades old unix. Well, "he" as in he got smart guys to do it, because he doesn't know squat in any real deep technical way as Woz has pointed out on several occasions.

Apple made more money and had more marketshare while he was gone than whenever he was around. He comes back and gets people to make pretty colored plastic computers, granted which look nice, and he tanks the marketshare even more.

You're right, he undid every advantage other apple employees killed themselves in building. Tossed the PDA away because his ego couldn't handle that he was outmanuevered by a sugar water salesman. Killed Claris, why the heck not. All the while very steadily undoing any good that was done at the company.

The one nice thing is he has a good ability to make machines look pretty even if impracticle. Well and that pretty apealing to all of 1.7% of the world.

Congratulations. Your ability to respin history has won you a place as the new minister of information for Iraq.

YOU: You know if you come here so often, you could always register a user name. Its not very hard. It only takes a couple of minutes. Less time than it will take for you to think up a response to this post![

YOU BASTARD!

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Guest wrote:
Paper rolls could be mass produced with perfect fidelity. It was basically digtital reproduction. Same sky is falling argumetns basically a century ago. Ae you seeing that you're sucking on tired arguements like a lacky yet?

Any common person having the ability to distribute copyrighted marterials globally simply by using equipment that can be easily purchased for next to nothing? This is a centuries old problem?!?!

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Guest wrote:
Yea, it's so tough with ONE BUTTON backups!?! You clearly have not tried the latest DVD backup solutions.

This doesn't change the fact that the average person won't do it. They aren't aware of it. They think about other things. They will go out and buy another copy.

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Guest wrote:
YOU BASTARD!

YOU: Any common person having the ability to distribute copyrighted marterials globally simply by using equipment that can be easily purchased for next to nothing? This is a centuries old problem?!?!

Any common person could make tons of copies of the paper rolls. Certainly you could easily make more paper rollst than there were piano that could use them--in essence flooding the global market for paper rolls. The problem was worse still as it was at a time when the US basically didn't enforce any copyright laws (as we, as a country, were infringing on the copyrights of the rest of the world far more often than we were creating our own copyrighted materias). It was also at a time when there was ZERO chance that the FBI would bust down your door because you were swapping movies (something that is regularly happening today). Yet sheet music survied (and survives till this day).

It was a very similar problem in market scope and language. That the paper roll copying threatened to kill the entire music market at the time. Yadda yadda. Sure the technology changes, but much of the bs is the same.

For better or worse most people are honest and dont infringe copyrights that they otherwise would have liked to purchase. Sure, they may infringe lots of copyrights of crap they NEVER would have purchased. Lots fo chinese copy MS office. It doesn't mean MS lost a single cent because they would never have the money to have bought it in the first place. Study after study bears this out. The copying tends to make more fans and sales by bringing new music to those that would othewise ignore the work. That's the ENTIRE premise of payola and radio today. This global boogeyman of the internet is just another crap argument, and another time the industry is actually stunting itself.

People like to own things legitimately. They like the real DVD. And your argument is the same flawed one. Oh my gosh, some bad people can use something for both good and bad, so let's punish everyone. The result is the really bad ones will ALWAYS get around the roadblocks, and the honest folks will be screwed. And the bs argument is "this helps honest people stay honest" is mostly crap. The studies bear this out. The "honest" people will copy stuff, but it's far and away stuff they do not end up using. If they do, they tend to go out and buy what they end up using/listening to.

Considering their long line of boogeyman lies over the course of history, I'm surprised anyone strives to come to their defense, outside of purposes of jerking my chaing.


YOU: This doesn't change the fact that the average person won't do it. They aren't aware of it. They think about other things. They will go out and buy another copy.

Clearly you don't have kids. You bust a few Disney DVDs and have crying kids, you do it. And you do it regularly. I know people that burn off their TiVo regulrlary and dupe DVDs regularly because their kids make frisbees. They leave the DVDs in the sun. Sit on them. Overplay them so they are scratched to death (a common xbox game problem). At 25-50 per pop (some of them which are released for only limited times) they've learned backing up is a god send. We're talking non-savvy moms. Plus that way they have them in the car and elsewhere.

YOU:
Yea, all like mr. innocent, jerk'n my chain.

We all know Steve Jobs was an ultra freaking pirate user just couple years ago.

But, worry not. No matter WHAT protective scheme you create, we will be always there just to crack that for fun.

DVD-Audio and SACD was already cracked if you don't know.

Gradius

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Guest wrote:
Any common person could make tons of copies of the paper rolls... ...Yet sheet music survied (and survives till this day).

Player pianos threatened orchestras? Dude what the frig? You keep ignoring the point about the Internet as a distribution channel.

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Guest wrote:
Clearly you don't have kids. You bust a few Disney DVDs and have crying kids, you do it... ...We're talking non-savvy moms. Plus that way they have them in the car and elsewhere.

Non-savy moms are hacking their Tivos? I don't think so! Your story doesn't add up. The average person is gonna think of a car if you say backup. Seriously come on. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be able to have backups, but 99.9% of people aren't gonna do it. Besides if you buy something and it breaks, buy another one! Thats usually how it works. We're not talking about $2k software here. If your kid breaks his toy does that mean you should be able to get another one free? Kids are expensive, get over it!

P.S. - No I don't have kids, thank god!

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Guest wrote:
We all know Steve Jobs was an ultra freaking pirate user just couple years ago.

But, worry not. No matter WHAT protective scheme you create, we will be always there just to crack that for fun.

DVD-Audio and SACD was already cracked if you don't know.

Gradius

That's exactly my point. The pirates will be completely unaffected. But mom/dad will have to buy 18 copies of Lion King (assuming disney doesn't artificially do its "limited time only" deals where they pull the title from the market for a couple of years) because the kids keep breaking it.

And as one of the other posters very aptly pointed out, this is from a guy that was a major blue box builder. There are layers upon layers of hypocrisy here.

YOU:Player pianos threatened orchestras? Dude what the frig? You keep ignoring the point about the Internet as a distribution channel.

Just as stupid as what player pianos threatened sounds now, the Internet boogeyman will sound tomorrow (assuming our government, US, isn't completely bought out by the music industry, which quite honestly it seems to be). You don't get the paper roll talk of yesteryear.

Let's say there were 10 player pianos in all the world then. You get on your player piano, and you dupe a roll. Actually, you make 10 dupes. Now you sell them. You've saturated the market by undercutting the legitimate vendors. That's easy because there were so few player pianos back then. And because you sold the roll for $1, instead of $10, you make all the sales. And no one was going to stop you because there was no RIAA, and basically, the copyright laws were unenforced and not policed. So the threat of allowing anyone to have a player piano, which made it easy to dupe the sheet music, was taht it had the capacity to kill that market. That TOTAL market. It had the capacity to kill the entire global market.

It's basically the same boogeyman of the Internet. It has the capacity to kill the total global market. Anyone that can get or has access to the player piano could become a distributer and affect a significant chunk of the market. Anyone that can get a pc can affect the market (in theory, but the market is so much bigger now that proportionally, it's about a wash or likely even less effectual).


YOU: Non-savy moms are hacking their Tivos? I don't think so! Your story doesn't add up.

No. They buy the 57H or the 810H (selling for about $550 with a DVD burner built into the TiVo).

YOU: The average person is gonna think of a car if you say backup.

No, the average person was capable of making tapes from their CDs and they can push the COPY button to dupe a DVD. You have a serious superiority complex or simply refuse to accept how easy the DVD copy tools are to use.

YOU: Seriously come on. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be able to have backups, but 99.9% of people aren't gonna do it.

This is a lame argument. When VCRs just came out 100% of the people didnt do it. DVD backup software just became easy within the last year. Considering how new it is, and that the labels are trying to sue the easy to copy programs out of existence, the DVD copying software penetration is impressive. If you find parents that blow through DVDs you might be surprised at what percentage of them know and/or are seeking a solution. And if they could copy a CD to a tape, the shure as hell can push the big copyIt button on the software.

YOU: Besides if you buy something and it breaks, buy another one! Thats usually how it works. We're not talking about $2k software here. If your kid breaks his toy does that mean you should be able to get another one free? Kids are expensive, get over it!

No that's not how it works. I buy a CD, I can make all the tapes I like. If I buy the DVD I can make VHS copies. When I buy a car or house or whatever, I can tinker with it all I want. Suddenly that's made illegal by the DMCA. And I'm not buying the physical medium, I'm buying the right to enjoy the content on it, and the right to enjoy it for as long as I want. And it makes no difference if it costs $1 or a $1mill. For some reason you think legally there's a differnce in how much it costs. There isn't. If it applies to the $1mill software, it applies to the $1 software as well.

Get over your apologist dug-in stance.

YOU: P.S. - No I don't have kids, thank god!

Well clearly if it doesn't affect you, then no one else has a legitimate purpose.

FLAME ON/ This is the f*(&ing problem with the world and the US today. Everyone is an idiot to history. Well it doesn't affect me, so I don't care. COULD THIS HAVE BEEN PROVEN MORE MORONIC A WAY TO BE? Hello!?! Nazis??? You should stand up for the little guys and other people's right to do things even if you aren't affected. Because today it's not you that's getting f'd. Tomorrow it might not be iether. But eventually it will be. And then teher's no one around to help you to stand up to something stupid and/or wrong that affects you negatively. FLAMEOFF

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Guest wrote:
FLAME ON/ This is the f*(&ing problem with the world and the US today. Everyone is an idiot to history. Well it doesn't affect me, so I don't care. COULD THIS HAVE BEEN PROVEN MORE MORONIC A WAY TO BE? Hello!?! Nazis??? You should stand up for the little guys and other people's right to do things even if you aren't affected. Because today it's not you that's getting f'd. Tomorrow it might not be iether. But eventually it will be. And then teher's no one around to help you to stand up to something stupid and/or wrong that affects you negatively. FLAMEOFF

And to that end. Send letters to your congressmen that you're pissed off about the DMCA. They are finally starting to listen because of a lot of advocacy from The Screen Savers on TechTV and EFF.

http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,63876,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

The above has more information.

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Guest wrote:


And to that end. Send letters to your congressmen that you're pissed off about the DMCA. They are finally starting to listen because of a lot of advocacy from The Screen Savers on TechTV and EFF.

http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,63876,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

The above has more information.

From the article:
""Pretty soon, the iPod and portable MP3 players will be illegal," he said.
That may be overstating things, but one fact remains: Although the chances of HR107 becoming law in an election year are slim, it could at least pass the House this year. The Senate has yet to tackle the issue and isn't expected to introduce a companion bill in the near future."

no it's not. soon all CDs will have copyrptoection on them. that means there will be no legitimate way to rip without violating the DMCA. First it's 321 studios. next its the ipod. or the only music you can buy for it is DRM music that controls how you/where you can play music. Blah.

If you want to help out, write to your congressman. EFF has a page that makes it easy. And some of the congressman are starting to pay attention.

http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=2901

Player pianos. I mean lets just completely ignore the per-capita cost of owning a player piano back then versus today. Market saturation what now? Whatever. I'm glad it makes sense to you.

Yeah man, welfare moms and people with VCRs and 20" TV's have $600 Tivos with built in DVD. What is Tivo's household saturation? And of those how many are the DVD ones? Hm... sounds like a very very small minority to me!Anyhow I'm glad you have such a great opinion of the "average" person. Seriously.

So I'll let you keep protecting all my civil rights and in the meantime I'm gonna keep not giving a $#!% and enjoy my childless life. Before my DVD's go bust I'll be buying the important movies on HD DVD. Later.

DRM is just another wet dream of todays media czars...

It could be possible that he's just trying to get WMV off the HD DVD standard.

YOU: Player pianos. I mean lets just completely ignore the per-capita cost of owning a player piano back then versus today. Market saturation what now? Whatever. I'm glad it makes sense to you.

Ever what whatever. Here's the break down. Player pianos were more dangerous to the total music market of the day than are HD DVDRs today. Even with the Internet a single player piano could affect a greater percentage of global sales than a single HD DVDR.

YOU: Yeah man, welfare moms and people with VCRs and 20" TV's have $600 Tivos with built in DVD. What is Tivo's household saturation? And of those how many are the DVD ones? Hm... sounds like a very very small minority to me!Anyhow I'm glad you have such a great opinion of the "average" person. Seriously.

Are you so lame that you cannot see what is more expensive now, will cost less. By your logic DVDs would never be used because they asstarted out costing thousands. 550 bux is reachable by the middle class. The adoption rate of TiVos is great than was the adoption rate for HBO from when it started. Lots of DVD burners are sold for PCs. Easy to use DVD software abounds. And people make copies easily. And regardless of your snobby perspective, and you personal non-need, lots of people have legitimate alterantive uses. Try and grok on that. Not everyone is a childless person that woants to use the content they buy on just one approved of device. There have been GENERATIONS of tapers accustomed to moving their cotnent and watching when/where and how they like, and that convenience is legitimate.

YOU: So I'll let you keep protecting all my civil rights and in the meantime I'm gonna keep not giving a $#!% and enjoy my childless life.

You're not my inspiration, take my word on it.

YOU: Before my DVD's go bust I'll be buying the important movies on HD DVD. Later.

I'm so happy for you. I hope your dog jizz's all over them and you have no backups.

no matter what the stream has to arrive at the tv unencrypted. the only way around it is a proprietary monitor that no one would buy unless there was a complete monopoly on the entertainment industry, which thanks to the current antitrust laws, that's very unlikely. the only way is for the MPAA to make it so inconvenient so that only the few 'geeks' will copy and download movies. even now it is a small percentage of the public that downloads movies. and right now it is easier than ever to copy and distribute.

With all this talk about HD-DVD, you'd think that some of these people are actually convinced that it'll be the next big thing. It won't.

The reason why DVD took off was because it was an INCREDIBLE improvement over DVD. You actually got your money's worth, and often had a basket of extras batched in. Yes, it had some copy protection, but thankfully it was rightly cracked.

HD-DVD doesn't offer that big of a difference. It's basically DVD at a higher resolution, suitable for HDTV. How many people here of you have HDTVs? Maybe 2% of you at best. HD-DVD won't -totally- fail, but it'll be relegated to niche markets like Laserdisc. All the DRM in HD-DVD would simply negate any possible benefits. Why would I want to buy a product that gives me LESS than what I already have?

Look at DVD-Audio. It's been out for a couple years now, and no-one's touched it. Heck, no-one's even bothered to waste the time cracking it.

Those numbskulls need the following four words drilled into the back of their eyelids: "IT'S OURS, NOT YOURS."

What the last poster said. I really don't give a flying f**k about what hollywood and SJ does, because whatever it is, it's going to be cracked. DVD was cracked DVD-audio was cracked... there is not an uncrackable system unless you completely remove the "copy" command from every technlogy out there or DRM the crap out of everything. At which point, people are going to blow up. As soon as people are sufficently limited in what they can do, then they are going to stop buying.

Half the reason I own a mac instead of windows is because I know BG is going to do more and more to enslave the users of his OS to what the media companies want. No thank you. I don't need a company to tell me what I can do what what I OWN. And if a company thinks otherwise, they can go f**k themselves. I'll pirate their $#!%, or I'll just boycott it. Either way, they get no money from me until they stop f**king with my rights as a consumer.

...and I DO make backup copies of my kid's movies. DVDs, unlike VHS tapes, are very fragile: one bad scratch can completely ruin the disc. Couple that with Di$ney's limited runs of their mainstay movies (available for a year, then out-of-print).

Are you guys so out of touch that you have no concept of the "average person"? Good lord. This isn't the Jetsons guys. You need to get out more.

You claim you aren't some paranoid geek (congrats on finding a female to procreate with!) who wants to "fight the man" but then.. low and behold... out comes the babble about the government and the DMCA! I'm sure this all relates to why you don't sign up with TMO, they could track you! Oh no! Cling to your poor excuse for fair use, its pretty weak. BTW ever consider not letting your kids handle the DVDs? You can store them out of reach right? Or how about some "average" network storage with DVD images that you rippd? You can play them with your "average" media PC. Then you don't even need the discs! Oh except when you get into your "average" minivan with super duper entertainment system! Sweet!

Fight the power! LOL

YOU: Are you guys so out of touch that you have no concept of the "average person"? Good lord. This isn't the Jetsons guys. You need to get out more.

They're parents, they dont have that luxory. You cant seem to get your head out of your hole to see your notions of average don't seem to comport with others.

YOU: You claim you aren't some paranoid geek (congrats on finding a female to procreate with!)

My guess that you have no children is not so much function of being a life choice as much as it is a consequence.

YOU: who wants to "fight the man" but then.. low and behold... out comes the babble about the government and the DMCA! I'm sure this all relates to why you don't sign up with TMO, they could track you!

Skippy, I can sign up and TMO wouldn't be able to track me if that's what I wanted. As is, if TMO looks through their logs, they'll have little trouble finding me. Try again oh-insightful one.

YOU: Oh no! Cling to your poor excuse for fair use, its pretty weak. BTW ever consider not letting your kids handle the DVDs?

Ever consider youre a total friggin moron that has no concept of everyday reality with kids.

YOU: You can store them out of reach right? Or how about some "average" network storage with DVD images that you rippd? You can play them with your "average" media PC.

Because there is no iTunes of movies. Hitting COPY on a program made for copying DVDs is orders of magnitude easier than setting up a server and data store for videos.

YOU: Then you don't even need the discs! Oh except when you get into your "average" minivan with super duper entertainment system! Sweet!

YOU: Fight the power! LOL

Of idiots like you. LOLOLOLOL Oooohy i'm sooo tickled. LOLOLOLOL. Ohh my goodness, look at all your haut glibness. It's so witty. Oh my, we're all in awe of it. F U, you lame a$$ f'n tool.

This is a VERY good read and backs up most everything said against DRM here:

http://craphound.com/msftdrm.txt
http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/18/1137215&mode=thread

im quite happy with standard definition DVD's at the moment. And thats using my projector to view them on. Providing the transfer is good and a sufficiant bitrate has been allocated to the movie as to minimise digital artefacts.

I dont see why everyone is getting so worked up about DRM on HD-DVD, HD-DVD is almost certain to be a flop. Its just too soon after the DVD

As someone who rushed out and bought a DVD player as soon as they were released in 1997/8 ish i can say with confidence that i will not be upgrading to a high definition format unless a) Its resolution is far greater than the proposed 1080 which in honesty is not much better than standard definition, something in between 3000&5000 would work for me. B)the format is lossless. No matter how much you try you still notice digital artefacts using a loosy compression, c)All forms of copy protection part for the format have been cracked or rendered useless.

You aren't going to be seeing something with "far greater" resolution than HD. You do realize that is 1920x1080, right? Most computer monitors can't even display that. Oh and 99% of HD TV's can't display that either BTW. You sure as hell won't be getting anything that could display "far greater".

One other reason you won't see it, is that movie studios are just now getting the technology to move beyond HD (or "2K" as they call it) to 4K resolution. And even then that is only when film is scanned. There is no production digital cameras with CCDs beefy enough to grab 4K. That's ALOT of data. So anyhow, my point is that Hollywood has always insisted on maintaining a significant difference in quality between what is in the home and what is displayed in theaters. (That's why widescreen was created shortly after television came out). So if Hollywood is just barely moving past HD, you can be sure you won't be! When they finally go digital at 4K, they aren't gonna be letting anybody at home have copies at that quality level.

My god you're a pompous idiot.

I hope when HD-DVD comes out there will be writers produced right away, not 2 or 3 years later.

And it would be nice to have a 2x or 4x writer when they are produced instead of just breaking off little crumbs of advancements.

See, the HD-DVD format probably will be used just like DVD where a person can back-up data, music and create their own videos.

As far as I'm concerned, backing-up data is what appeals to me the most.

And as far as making the HD-DVD copy proof? I believe that is impossible. There will always be someone somewhere that will crack the copy protection scheme. Thus, I suggest that there be no wasted effort to try to add or change copy protect from what we find on the standard DVD today. People who are going to copy will copy. Those that won't... won't.

Lastly, since the average HD-DVD will be 20 to 30GB, I think that this make downloading HD-DVD movies on the Internet unpopular. Maybe in another 10 years the Internet might be fast enough to allow for illegal sharing of the HD-DVD format.

These are my thoughts on the matter anyway. Bring on the new technology (and faster)!

I'm sorry, Guest who said I'm a pompous idiot. Pompous? Sure! But how am I an idiot? Am I providing too much detail? Too many facts? Too much accurate information? You don't make a very good argument. Pleae elaborate.

Quote

Biff wrote:
I'm sorry, Guest who said I'm a pompous idiot. Pompous? Sure! But how am I an idiot? Am I providing too much detail? Too many facts? Too much accurate information? You don't make a very good argument. Pleae elaborate.

The above statement is self-authenticating that you're an idiot.

Hehe. Yeah dude it totally didn't have to connect to the server! It like totally authenticated itself! Like woah, dude!

Quote

Biff wrote:
Hehe. Yeah dude it totally didn't have to connect to the server! It like totally authenticated itself! Like woah, dude!

I find it difficult to believe you can see an point with your head being crammed that far up your a$$.

broadband company traffic tap?
What is it? Who has it?
What are its limits?
What are its benefits to whom?