Konfabulator Inventors Not Flattered by "Apple Rip-off"
TMO Reports - Konfabulator Inventors Not Flattered by "Apple Rip-off"
by , 2:00 AM EDT, June 29th, 2004
Whoever said 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' never met Arlo Rose.
The co-inventor of the Mac shareware widget application Konfabulator is more than a little mad that Apple's new Dashboard feature that will be part of Mac OS X Tiger is so similar to his product.
"They have come up with an idea that is a complete rip-off of our product, plain and simple," Mr. Rose told The Mac Observer, Monday. "This could potentially drive us out of business."
Konfabulator is a US$25 Macintosh program that runs small JavaScript programs called Widgets, which perform various tasks from monitoring weather, news, sports and stocks to adding newly designed clocks, tasks bars, search banners and more. Rose and co-creator Perry Clarke released the product in February 2003.
Apple announced a similar feature Monday at the Apple World Wide Developers Conference (WWDC) that will be part of its new OS to be released next year. Dashboard will perform very many of the same small programs as Konfabulator in the same exact way, but will be part of the new OS X version, that will be sold for $129 in the first half of 2005.
Mr. Rose thinks for Apple to copy his product feature for feature is wrong.
"It's okay for companies to compete and do products with similar functionality. That's just part of business," Mr. Rose commented. "What's not okay is for the company making the OS to turn around and give away third-party functionality for free."
An Apple spokesperson or executive was not available for comment to The Mac Observer, but Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller told CNET News Monday, "The goal (of Dashboard) isn't to be like anything else. It's not his (Mr. Roses') stuff. What we've done is ours."
Mr. Rose reacted to Mr. Schiller's comments by saying, "I know for a fact both Mr. Schiller and Mr. Jobs have used and enjoyed our product. This is their product? They came out with it first? They know better than to say that because it's a lie.
"They could have come to us and tried to work with us to buy the product. We probably wouldn't have taken them up on it, but it would have been a nice gesture. They could have done a number of things, but they stayed quiet about it until today."
Mr. Rose thinks what Apple has done has an even deeper meaning for the Mac development community and customers who could end up the real losers if developers leave the platform because their ideas are being used by Apple in its own products.
"It says to developers that if they have a really good idea, expect Apple to take the idea and use it as their own. We have worked our butts off now for two years and the thanks we get is for Apple to completely copy us. It's nuts."
Mr. Rose mentioned a similar situation with another independent shareware developer -- Karelia Software and its Watson search application. Apple used many of the same features of Watson in a recent upgrade to its built-in OS search product, Sherlock. In an ironic twist of fate, Karelia announced Monday it had licensed the technology behind Watson to another company, presumably for use on another operating system.
Rose is trying to make the best of the situation, but he knows that he and Mr. Clarke will have a tough time selling their product after next year when Apple comes out with Tiger.
"We're going to continue to develop software and do what we do best, but we're going to be cautious to watch out for Apple," he said.
Mr. Rose added that he and Mr. Clarke have been working on a Windows version of the product for some time something that now appears to have been a good decision if business falls off after the release of Tiger next year.
"We have to make Konfabulator for both Mac and Windows," Mr. Rose said. "We have no choice and I defy anyone to tell me this is a bad business decision. It's kind of depressing to think we've have to resort to this strategy, but we see no other way around it. I love the Mac platform and have been developing on it for over a decade now and it's kind of depressing to see how I'm being re-paid for it by having my idea ripped off."
Observer Comments
Come off it Mr Rose. Surely you aren't that stupid?
Just because you implemented an idea that has existed on other platforms in one shape or another doesn't mean you own the idea. You know this.
This piece is a poorly-composed sour-grapes PR effort. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Rose is permantly slighted due to the refusal of Apple to buy Konfabulator.
If you have REAL rights to the Konfabulator functionality, patent it and sue.
Sheesh.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:35 am Subject: Konfabulator was *already* in development for Windows...
The team at Konfabulator have been planning to develop for Windows for some time. Its somewhat disingenuous to suggest that this is has been 'forced' on Konfabulator by Apple...
http://news.com.com/Mac+applets+coming+soon+to+Windows/2100-1046_3-5126248.html?tag=st.rn
The reality is that Apple will not release Tiger till 2005, so think of all the free press and sales this could give Konfabulator. If he is smart, he will befriend Apple and state that this opens the market up and legitimizes it. He will then differentiate it from Apple's. (Notice Dashboard is Expose based, so widgets do not appear alongside apps, so there is one key differentiator.) He can then release a webkit based version and give us CSS capability, etc. And, finally release Linux and Windows versions. Hello!
Konfabulator should thank Apple, and look at the big picture. Do you think SUN and MSFT aren't looking for Dashboard equivalents now? Makybe they'll pay him a couple of mil?
Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:11 am Subject: What does it do exactly?
I'm still having trouble grasping what this product (and Apple's version) does exactly. All I'm seeing are a bunch of little Desk Accessories like you would find in the Apple menu pre-System 7.
Then they have lots of nice colors, and it runs Java, which macs already have... I don't see why you need any kind of underlying technology beyond basic mac programming tools to do these things.
But I agree that copying niche developer's stuff is wrong. If Apple gave these guys $2 per copy of Tiger, they'd probably make more then they'd ever make otherwise - and it would encourage, rather then discourage, Mac software development.
Apple should concentrate on developing new and unique ideas instead. (I've got plenty if they want some.)
I am the developer of the shareware product "A Better Finder Rename" available from publicspace.net
IMHO yesterday's Tiger demo is probably the worst blow to developer relations that Apple has ever landed. The kind of "innovation" that consists in stealing shareware author's ideas and selling them as innovation is not something that any developer will take lightly.
Dashboard = Konfabulator
I was also particularly impressed to find a host of features from my own shareware product A Better Finder Rename ripped off in "Automator".
This kind of intellectual theft is simply not acceptable and shareware authors like myself will leave the platform in their hundreds if this feature is actually released. Steve's copycats are driving honest people out of business in a way that is even too low for Bill Gates.
I ask Apple to pull this feature in its own best interest; the Macintosh without shareware is deader than dead.
I would ask everybody who feels like me to make their views known to Apple via their contact pages:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
Please support your shareware authors!
Frank Reiff
Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:15 am Subject: anyone who knows me
Anyone who knows me, knows that I have been 100% Mac since 1984 when I got my first Mac. I have never gone to the "darkside", for more then html testing reasons (and I did have gaming PC a couple years ago when I still had time to play games). I have recently created some pretty innovative (at least no one has come out with similar apps yet) donation-ware software (that now will never be publicly released at least until I get a linux and windows version of equal quality). I can't believe Apple of all companies (I guess RealityCheck is right and I am a lemming) is stealing ideas and calling them "innovative".
This whole situation seems ridiculous to me, I am sickened by it and now believe truly that Apple is no better then Ikea, Mcdonalds. Nike or any other large corporation who is just out to make a buck and will easily forget anyone who is between them and their buck, no matter what their contribution to the idea is.
I hate having to add all of these third party applications to do things the operating system should have done to begin with.
None of these things are new ideas!
I also think they should add the functionality that tinkertool provides too.. Somebody would be pissed about that too..
there was a third party application that you had to download in windows 95 to be able to view jpegs. It is built-in to the operating system... what about winzip? built-in to windows xp and os x. musicmatch, winamp, countless other jukeboxes... built-in.
Do you honestly think that having a calculator pop up when you hit f11 is idea theft, or worth getting bent out of shape over?
blah blah. tired, so tired of hearing about this.
Quotefastred wrote:
The team at Konfabulator have been planning to develop for Windows for some time. Its somewhat disingenuous to suggest that this is has been 'forced' on Konfabulator by Apple...
Thanks for the note, fastred. I added that to the title not realizing that the move to Windows had already been announced. Both you and Mr. Rose (and a few others) set us straight, however, and the title has been changed accordingly.
Bryan
Editor
TMO
about one's operating system having more functionality integrated is also non-productive.
The clock on longhorn's dock looks a lot like konfabulator, too.
apple shouldn't have implemented fast user switching.
and if they ever make os x skinnable, the folks over at unsanity should get upset, because being able to change your look and appearance is definitely their idea..
algr:
But I agree that copying niche developer's stuff is wrong. If Apple gave these guys $2 per copy of Tiger, they'd probably make more then they'd ever make otherwise - and it would encourage, rather then discourage, Mac software development.
==============
So you're saying these are the ONLY guys who make anything like this for the Mac? I doubt it. Then what? You give 10 guys $2 each for each copy of Tiger? 50 guys? 100 guys?
As much as I feel for these guy's bad luck, think about being Apple. Pretty much ANY improvement they come up with is already being made by several people. So should they pay out millions of $$$ to a half dozen guys for each tiny detail they add? Or should they just throw up their hands and say, "Forget it! No more updates! All Apple users should buy 100 tiny $12 programs off the net if you want a new OS!"
Neither of those is good solutions. This really reminds me of TV shows, like Star Trek, where there are thousands of people all over the country writing their own scripts but the studio WILL NOT accept them or even read them. No matter WHAT story the studio writes it will match what a fan has already written. By not taking any scripts they can prove they didn't steal it. Apple's doing pretty much the same thing except that they can't PROVE they didn't steal it, but just like with Star Trek, it's clear they're just coming up with stuff on their own and it's all a coincidence.
I do not care if Apple rips off my products, its all part and parcel of the game.
In fact, I would rather Apple ripped it off than have to code on Windows, the Windows game is not a pleasant world and Microsoft will only too happily do it to you as well.
Expect to be competed with, this is a capitalist world. Apple is a company like any other.
You know, I think Arlo and Perry need to just shut up and code. They've got two choices: do it better than Apple, or do something else. It is good for the whole platform when the OS is supremely functional out of the box, even when that means wrapping up 3rd party tools in the OS. But you know - Apple doesn't try to kill the 3rd party market like MS. Apple leaves plenty of room for people to write 3rd party tools for the high end. Ask the folks at NetNewsWire if they're concerned about Safari RSS. They're not. As far as they can see, its going to drive sales of NetNewsWire by having Apple educated people about RSS.
Getting pissed off because someone else wrapped a Javascript engine that drove desk widgets is just dumb. And besides, if Konfabulator had the "Dashboard" functionality of only allowing widgets to appear when I pressed an fkey, I might have actually bought it. Having those damned "l33t", space wasting widgets cluttering my desk was not worth the functionality that they gave.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:02 am Subject: Capitalism
Ok, look, here's the deal: I don't set out to be an Apple apologist, and I certainly have no love lost for some of Apple's business activities. Heck, this may even be IN that list. However, they are a company in business to make money. Now, that can't always be accomplished by doing things that are short-sighted. Sometimes you need to cut corners, but most of the time you need to do things with the long run in mind. Whether or not they set out to steal Konfabulator's idea, and whether or not it was "right", is for the market and Konfabulator's authors to decide. The capitalist system in which we live in the USA is built to deal with exactly this sort of thing. If enough consumers think its a problem, they can vote with their pocketbooks and choose not to purchase this version of the OS, instead staying with Panther and, for an extra $25, Konfabulator. That's certainly their choice. Also, Konfabulator's authors can choose whether or not to file a lawsuit, alledging that Apple stole their idea and, effectively, has put a time limit on their business.
The other way to look at it, as another poster suggested, is that Konfabulator has been given a remarkable opportunity: Apple has brought attention to this *kind* of feature, gotten people all excited about it, and now Konfabulator's authors can (and, from the looks of their website, have) take advantage of this by saying, "hey -- you can have this feature NOW, today! No wait!" Sure, they have a time limit after which their sales will almost certainly fall into a decline, but if they market wisely, they can ramp up sales between now and then, invest that money back into their business and develop yet another product that's 4 years ahead of its time. You can't rest on your laurels forever -- eventually every product you produce either has to be retired or, at least, updated. These guys have the benefit of knowing exactly WHEN their product will run out, and now have a track record. I had never looked at Konfabulator before this, and yesterday I started using it. Now I know that these guys make a killer product, and I'll watch out for the next thing they release, likely going to get it the day it comes out... all *because* of the fact that they had a *great* idea long before Apple ever decided to put it into my favorite OS. THAT is quite a feather for Arlo Rose and Perry Clarke to have in their collective hat.
--Dave
It's just a bunch of desk accessories...nothing new in that. About the only thing new is that they use Javascript. Otherwise the concept and what each does is old hat. They can cry and bitch all they want but Apple had those before and are just now getting around to adding them to OSX the same as they added labels finally.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:17 am Subject: Apple's True Dark Side Revealed For All To See
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:18 am Subject: Nothing New Here
Look, this is nothing new. Apple has always taken the best little shareware ideas and worked them into their next OS. I'm not saying it's cool, but nobody should be surprised by this. It's tradition. That said, I always assumed they paid the little guys when they ripped them off.
Isn't it kinda ironic they did this at the developers' conference? Not exactly sending a great message..."develop great software for the Mac so we can rip you off!"
BUT, you could argue that this has been part of the Mac since day one with the desktop accessories...and, well...you'd be right.
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Desk_Ornaments.txt&topic=Software%20Design&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium
Looks familiar, eh?
I haven't seen the actual implementation of Dashboard but to suggest that Apple "ripped off" the idea of the desktop widget from Mr. Rose is not accurate. Konfabulator itself is just a reimplementation of the venerable Control Strip which I believe made its debut way back in System 7.1. At its heyday there were hundreds of user-created Control Strip modules that did all sorts of interesting things. Just like Konfabulator does now. I believe Apple can cite prior art here.
On the other hand, with $5 billion in the bank Apple certainly could have bought out Mr. Rose in the interests of good developer relations.
It isn't so much of a rip off has it is just being able to use JavaScript.
Sure there's a simple wrapper format around it, but, to be honest, I never liked the way Konfabulator controlled .widget. I never liked the use of an additional menu in the menu bar (clutter, for me); I never liked it being on the desktop all the time (visual clutter, for me). Giving them some competition about doing it other ways is only going to strengthen the .widget format. IMO, it took Apple to get it right for what I want (dashboard)... if others want it on their desktop, then they can still by Konfabulator.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:22 am Subject: Apple ripped off again!!
This has been going on for centuries. Hypercard ripped off from Apple and taken in a different direction than Apple intended by small developers. Windowz rips off the Mac OS. Apple rips off Windowz features. Everyone is looking for an angle they can exploit for some gainful purpose --altruistic or selfish. Building upon others ideas is the cornerstone of progress and a driving force in competition. A new and unique implementation of a new or old idea can be patented and a legal short term monopoly may be gained if the originator desires. The courts can be used if your rights have been compromised.
The point is every good idea gets replicated in many variations with various improvements. It is our tradition. The first guy on the block has an advantage in time, but in high tech, the only way to make that advantage pay in the long run is to keep innovating faster than the other guys can catch up. I have invented a few products in my life, and I have been blatantly ripped off by others after my patents ran out, without any acknowledgment as the inventor. So what! Those are the rules of the game. Life is what you make of it! Just keep swimming!
QuoteDonut wrote:
there was a third party application that you had to download in windows 95 to be able to view jpegs. It is built-in to the operating system... what about winzip? built-in to windows xp and os x. musicmatch, winamp, countless other jukeboxes... built-in.
unfortunately microsoft licensed the winzip stuff, just like they did with diskkeeper, the cd writing stuff and many other little improvements to windows. It should also be noted that the built in winzip and diskkeeper are limited in functionality. Making it so there is still a market for 3rd party developers.
Unless they are in direct competition with Microsoft, they treat their developers well, they buy out their business for a healthy sum, or make sure that the tools they do include aren't better than 3rd party offerings.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:43 am Subject: Apple has a right to invent
As long as Apple didn't steal anything from Konfab, they have all the right to compete. Konfab's product may in fact be a better one, and has all the right to compete with another product. Back in the System 7 days, Apple would simply buy out the product for their OS, but if Apple can figure out how to create it by themself, why shouldn't they? I've often believed Konfab would benefit from being included into the OS. Software protection has always been iffy at best. It's too bad Konfab wasn't able to secure a patent on their invention (similar to one of many Apple's look and feel claims). The widgets was such a revolutionary idea, and unfortunatly there was no legal protection, and so Apple does have the right to include a similar product in their OS.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:47 am Subject: X-platform products
If the Konfabulator guys can get the Windows product working to parity with their Mac offering, they have a lot to gain from Apple's act of flattery. First, Windows users will be envious of Dashboard and they can get Konfabulator, "the inspiration for Dashboard". Second, many Mac users also use Windows boxes. Having products that work the same cross-platform and having licensing terms that let users use the product on 4 or 5 computers of whatever flavor under their control makes it compelling for customers to buy so their Mac/Windows worlds work similarly. Even better if the widgets themselves are cross-platform! Apple is going to be Apple. Don't get too dependent on them either creating a market or not stepping on your toes. Otherwise you'll just get upset.
Anyway, there actually is tremendous opportunity here if you don't get too riled up. Drop me a note off-board Arlo if you'd like some more ideas. Cross-platform is how I make my software business work.
-Brad Hutchings
brad@componentx.com
The guys at Konfabulator must be the happiest guys in the world for so much publicity and a whole year to sell a program that at least I never heard of before.
They play it hard, they play it well and I hope they'll be billionaires next year who are too lazy to port it to Windows.
By the way, I'm trying the program and it's amazing how messy and useless most widgets are.
QuoteDrShakagee wrote:
and now believe truly that Apple is no better then Ikea, Mcdonalds. Nike or any other large corporation who is just out to make a buck and will easily forget anyone who is between them and their buck, no matter what their contribution to the idea is.
What made you think that Apple was different?
Seriously, you don't get to be a 4 Billion $ company (I think that was their last gross sales figure) by being nice.
People forget that the business of a corporation is to make a profit. That's all. If they make money by being nice to everyone and never stepping on toes then that's fine. If they can make more by ripping off a small developer and walking off then that's what they do. Apple is no better or worse than any other company. Their products are vastly superior to others but corporate culture is corporate culture. A leopard can't change it's spots. That's why societies have governments and court systems; to protect the small and weak from the big and greedy.
Dashboard is not a copy of Konfabulator.
Dashboard is the reincarnation of Desk Accessories - which were part of the Mac OS since day one.
If anything, Konfabulator is a copy of Desk Accessories.
It's great to see Apple continue to bring in Mac OS 9 features into Mac OS X. It makes the transition that much easier for old Mac OS 9 fogies.
QuoteGuest wrote:
weather station app? very cool...
without protection everyone can rip off your product..
which..
if they had applied for a patent of some kind, probably would have been denied, since applets have been around since the dark ages
so has double click, but that didn't stop the US patent office from granting that one.
We know that the name, Apple was photocopied from the Beatle's Apple Corps. so photocopying has been an integral part of the Apple corporate strategy since day one.
Copy, clone, milk the Mac...well that is just the way of the much beloved "Dr. Turtleneck". You copy or clone anything Apple, will Mr. Jobs he be "Dr. SnappingTurtlenecker" he snap you man, he snap you bad!
Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:23 pm Subject: Konfab's probably getting rich
How many people never heard of Konfab before yesterday, went to the site and tried their stuff. I did - they got my $25 so I can play a bit.
Apple's updated Desktop Accessories are probably be very different than Konfab, both in how it works and they type of widgets written for it. I would not really get bent too far out of shape - just let Konfab pull in the bucks while they are in the limelight and let Apple continue with a concept they started developing in 1981.
By the way, would i recommend spending $25 for Konfab? probably not. It's cute, but oversized for me and not that fantastic.
This seems to be a case of "the kettle calling the pot black"... Arlo ripped-off a Windows product in the first place:
http://www.xpthemes.com/forums.asp?MID=19&CMID=19&AID=4472
Arlo and Greg Landweber made their current careers by stealing Apple's intellectual property, and they have the NERVE to complain? Doesn't anyone remember Kaleidoscope? This was an Apple invention that appeared in the MacOS X beta, which they ripped off and engineered into OS 9. I never understood why Apple didn't stomp on Arlo and Greg, since Themes were patented.
So one developer may have his business somewhat limited if he can't figure out how to make something better than Apple.
What about Widget makers? This will open up a whole new market for developers cranking out new widgets. Consider the difference in the number of people who have bought Konfabulator compared to the number who will eventually being using 10.4. Instead of whining, it might be an idea to shift focus to selling packages of useful widgets.
As far as ripping off, all of these guys complaining about Apple ripping them off got their original inspiration from older Apple products, Sherlock, Switcher (or even earlier Servant), Desk Accessories/Control strip. I purchase third party software when it offers somethning really useful to me, but I have to admit none of these guys doing the complaining made it in that category for me.
It uses JavaScript, not Java. And it does a lot of cool stuff. I have a small window that displays the local weather over the next few days. Another window pops up when someone logs onto iChat. Others act as countdown timers and such. Download Konfabulator and try it out. You may like it.
I don't know if you remember them, but Apple used to have a framework similar to Konfabulator and you could access things within that framework from the Apple menu: Desk Accessories! In my opinion, Konfabulator's developers simply revamped the Desk Accessory idea for Mac OS X, and should not feel bad that Apple is doing the same. Once we had System 7 with its multitasking, desk accessories were just lumped in with all other applications, and the old Apple menu was expanded to include anything you wanted. The folks making Konfabulator (and now Dashboard) realized that Desk Accessories were actually quite useful because they brought common tools all into one spot that could be accessed quickly from anywhere. They could even have been described as "widgets" that you could use within the desk accessory framework, and developers could make their own desk accessories. Apple didn't complain when Konfabulator stole the Desk Accessories from them, and Konfabulator's developers shouldn't be upset now that Apple has brought Desk Accessories back into their OS after years of absence... even if they did probably get the idea to bring them back by seeing Konfabulator.
Originally, I didn't want to take a stance on this, but after reviewing the facts I've come to one conclusion: so what?
Arlo Rose and Perry Clarke have created something great for the Mac, but they are by no means being "ripped off" by Apple. The concept of "desktop accessories" is nothing new; Konfabulator took something old and made it pretty. And now, Apple is doing the same.
Is it unfair to the developers? Possibly, if Arlo and Perry continue to sulk about this. So Apple is putting out an app similar to yours -- make yours better. Add more functionality, set your app apart from the rest, just don't complain when time comes to get off the couch and start working in a competitive market.
Apple's applications have seldom offered the amount of dedication its developer's apps have. I would guess while that many Tiger uses will be impressed by Dashboard, an equal number will want more. That's where Konfabulator comes in.
The more I look into it, the more ridiculous this debate is beginning to seem. Developers should be grateful Apple supports them at all. All products, at one time or another, will have to compete at one time or another. This is simply Arlo and Perry's time to show us that Konfabulator is a superior product. Will it be? Who's to know now, but showing effort is the first step.
And on the contrary, Arlo and Perry have hardly been left out in the cold. If anything, Dashboard has given the two more publicity than ever before, and I wish them the best of luck.
Just my two cents,
Galen Wiley
I'm sorry, but I do remember Kaleidoscope and still use it. I had it installed on my mac running MacOS 7.5.5 - and that was long before MacOS X beta. My impression was that Apple ripped off Kaleidoscope.
QuoteGuest wrote:
Doesn't anyone remember Kaleidoscope? This was an Apple invention that appeared in the MacOS X beta, which they ripped off and engineered into OS 9.
Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:53 pm Subject: Get some perspective, folks.
1) It's been rightly pointed out that Dashboard is the logical, obvious result from desk accessories ("DAs" for us old timers) mashed together with Exposй.
2) Konfabulator can easily compete with an included app -- it happens all the time. See also: Opera, Omniweb, Firefox. Be better than the included functionality, or extend it. There are multiple paths to take here.
3) Konfabulator runs on pre-Tiger versions of Mac OS X! I'm still running Jaguar at home, folks. While I may spring for an upgrade, it's likely to be Panther, not Tiger. Someone else can beta test for me. (Or maybe I can beta test with my work machine, but the point is, I can't afford for my home system to be impaired.) There'll be a steady stream of converts to Tiger but it's not going to be instantaneous. Some folks will want this functionality on their old systems.
4) It's been pointed out that they were already contemplating a Windows port before yesterday's "surprise" demo. That card's already been played.
--scott
Themes came first. Arlo Rose was an Apple employee and worked on that during the Copeland project. Steve canned theming--he's always hated it--but some of the original sample theme files (HiTech, Drawing Board, Gizmo, etc.) did make it out "into the wild" without permission. If you can find a copy, they still work under OS 9.2.2 (as do other classic themes). These themes were used as models by folks developing their own themes for classic. Lots of ResEdit fun there...
In the meantime, Greg Landsweber (may be off on the spelling) had a little extension called Aaron (Copeland...get it?) that could make System 7 look more or less like what Copeland was supposed to look like when released (which never happened). Aaron became obsolete when Apple used most of the Copeland UI design ideas in OS 8 (theme support starts with 8.5).
When Arlo Rose left Apple, he eventually started working with Greg Landsweber, with the result being Kaleidoscope. Kaleidoscope never made it to OS X, and Arlo Rose went on to co-produce Konfabulator.
As an alum of Apple, he should know that one of the ways the Mac OS evolves is that third parties invent or add missing and cool features to the system!! If the features are good enough, useful enough, or cool enough, then eventually Apple adds them in as part of the system software. There are dozens of examples: virtual memory (like RAM doubler), extensions manager (like Conflict Catcher), macros and scripting (like UserLand frontier), windows file sharing and interoperability (like DAVE and PC MacLan), an X Window Server (like White Pine, MI/X, or XFree86/OroborOSX) etc.. These are all *good features* that should be part of the OS!! Not to mention various iApps and Apple software competing with third party products (even from the beginning MacWrite and MacPaint competed with third parties!) I for one think the platform was/is better off with the Apple software, although it did incur the wrath of third parties.
The point is - this is exactly what *should* happen. The only thing that could be done better is for Apple to purchase/license the relevant programs (Watson, Konfabulator, etc.) from the third parties - perhaps a few hundred thousand dollars could buy the happiness of the third party developers, and maybe encourage others to follow in their footsteps. It might be a worthwhile investment. However, historically Apple has provided no such compensation to third-party innovators on the Mac platform, preferring instead to say that their reward was the window of opportunity they got before Apple integrated their functionality into the OS itself.
But Mr. Rose should not be surprised - he used to work for Apple and has seen the same thing happen many times!!
Konfabulator and Dashboard should be interoperable - that is, you should be able to run widgets from either system in the other system!
Having the functionality built into the OS is very good - but it is foolish to waste all of the creativity that has been invested in creating Konfabulator widgets - much better to have a huge expanded audience for them!
Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:11 pm Subject: Read Konfabulator FAQs, shows path to future success
The Konfabulator FAQs have this gem:
-----
Is there a visual editor for Widgets?
We are planning on one, yes. When, however is still to be decided.
-----
So, there you have it, stop whining, start coding. People will want the ability to create widgets without being programmers, so help them.
For a guy who made his living in the past by copying Apple's unreleased technology, I don't think he has much moral high-ground here. Given that all he contributed to the idea of Desktop Accessories is to use JavaScript for development, I don't get the whining. JavaScript is used widely because it is a standard (ECMA) programming language. There is nothing innovative about using JavaScript.
Does anyone know if Konfabulator is using the Webkit JavaScript engine? If it is, then his contribution is even more trivial. The implementation may have been hard work, but the idea itself can't be protected.
QuoteDonut wrote:
and if they ever make os x skinnable, the folks over at unsanity should get upset, because being able to change your look and appearance is definitely their idea..
And if Apple called their built-in skinning tech "ShapeShift" and it read guiKit files, do you seriously think that Unsanity would have nothing to say in response?
You are missing the point.
if they wanted to call it shapeshift and make it read guikits, more power to them. however, is there any proof that dashboard will read konfab widgets?
it's not a BadThing (tm)
It's something that should have been included starting with os x 10.0, and unsanity (among many others, themepark, which also reads guikits) filled the void.. Apple giveth, and apple taketh away?
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