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TMO Reports - Group Urges People To Boycott Macworld

by , 3:00 PM EDT, July 12th, 2004

BOSTON, MASS. -- An unknown group is urging Bostonians and hotel guests to boycott Macworld. The group is driving a large billboard trailer around the streets of downtown Boston around the convention center area asking people to "Say no to Macworld," and to "save our jobs." The billboard also urges people to call the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority to complain.

At issue is a comment from Pat McGovern -- the founder of IDG, the company that owns and operates Macworld -- in an interview from March of this year saying that outsourcing was good for the technology industry. In that interview with Computerworld, Mr. McGovern was quoted as saying the following:

Q: Do you think offshore outsourcing will have a net positive impact or a negative impact on the U.S. IT
A: industry? Outsourcing will definitely be a benefit to the U.S. IT industry. Outsourcing reflects the globalization of labor. It will take several decades, but eventually there will be equal pay for equal work all over the world. It is only fair that human beings are rewarded for their work in comparable ways. This process will allow the IT industry to benefit from the most skilled people available at the most competitive rates of compensation.

According to an IDG spokesperson, the comments are being taken out of context. According to the spokesperson, IDG's position is that outsourcing is bad for the US and the tech industry, and that Mr. McGovern was simply saying that making skills and pay comparable worldwide will end up benefiting the US.

"IDG has been an international company since the early 1970s," said Howie Sholkin, Dir. of Corp. Comm. of International Data Group, told The Mac Observer (TMO). "But our philosophy has always been to not move a lot of US jobs internationally and to hire local people. So we don't outsource blocks of IDG jobs to outside countries."

He added, "Mr. McGovern truly believes the US will remain more than competitive with the rest of the world through education and innovation."

The subject of outsourcing has gained considerable traction amongst labor groups and the media in the last few years as many of America's largest corporations have begun exporting high-paying technology jobs to India, and to a lesser extent China. This is in addition to manufacturing outsourcing that has continued apace for the last two decades.

Adding to the discussion has been conflicting opinions from economists, including White House economists, and labor experts that have in turn supported or disproved the notion that outsourcing is good for the US. CNN anchor Lou Dobbs has also spotlighted the subject during the last year, including regularly listing companies that CNN has confirmed are outsourcing jobs. Apple is one of the companies on that list, which can be viewed from the Lou Dobbs Tonight home page.

The billboard, which can be seen at the .Mac HomePage of loug, does not make it clear who is being targeted by the campaign, or why. Mr. Sholkin says his company does not yet know who is behind the billboard, and TMO is attempting to find out more about the group and its aims.

Observer Comments

Show: Subjects Only | Full Comments
View Name:Guest
Subject: If Market share continues to decrease....
View Name:Guest
Subject: you have got to be kidding me.....
View Name:RealityCheck -   Troll Posts: 392 Joined: 06 May 2004
Subject: No Need For Truck - No One's Going Anyway
Close Name:DrDude Posts: 31 Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Subject: Lib vs. Lib

Funny to see the liberal labor union types boycotting one of the most liberal leaning companies (Apple, at least their constituency and CEO) since Ben & Jerry's. Kinda makes you think that they can't decide which handout they want more. Ha.

Get off it. If your non-skilled job has gone overseas, increase your value by educating yourself rather than trying to bring down the rest of this great entrepreneurial economy.

Kinda like Apple asking the gov't to mandate the use of Macs because MS keeps growing its market share. Apple would be out of business in a month if they took such an attitude. Instead, they strive for improvement.

Close Name:Biff Posts: 1479 Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Subject:

Um RC, how is this a flop for Apple? Apple has nothing to do with it. Which of course is the major problem for the show in the first place. Bad for MacWorld Boston, but how is it bad for Apple? Please explain.

Close Name:geoduck Posts: 1865 Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Subject: Equal pay for equal work

In theory he's right but...

The equal pay for equal work idea has resulted in the lowering of salaries and environmental standards, and health benefits and such in the first world not a raising of those in the third.
http://www.techsunite.org/news/techind/031120_tonelson.cfm
http://www.opednews.com/kelly040804_outsourcing.htm
As someone said a couple of years back, "Globalization will eventually allow all of us to work for a salary a Pakistani brick hauler would think generous."

The second issue is that let's assume for a moment that the theory is correct and after several decades the system will balance out and all IT workers around the world will be paid what we're worth. I don't have several decades to wait. People coming out of school today don't have several decades to wait. We need to feed our families NOW. The idea that I'll get a decent wage when I'm 70+ is meaningless. How do you tell some 18 year old to go into IT in the hope he'll get better wages near the end of his career? Most of the 18 year olds I've talked to won't even think about an IRA

This country needs a strong IT sector to remain competitive in the world. We won't have it if we don't make sure that the jobs are here. If we don't make sure that the jobs are here AND well paying we won't have the graduates coming out of college tomorrow either.

View Name:RealityCheck -   Troll Posts: 392 Joined: 06 May 2004
Subject: Biff - Apple Refused To Participate
Close Name:algr Posts: 294 Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Subject:

DrDude, you consider computer programming to be a "non-skilled job"?

Close Name:algr Posts: 294 Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Subject: Re; Apple refused to participate.

"Steve Jobs by refusing to participate in Boston Macworld guaranteed that show attendance would drop even more than usual."

I held an Intel convention in my garage last week, and NO ONE showed up! Intel is doomed!

Close Name:deasys Posts: 286 Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Subject: Identifying "The Group"

They're IT professionals afraid of the rising interest in Mac-based solutions, especially among 'alpha geeks.' Quite rightly, IMHO--I too would be afraid of systems that greatly decreased dependency on hard-won expertise in taming the trouble-prone, insecure technologies of the Wintel world.

View Name:Guest
Subject: Don't worry about Marketsahre... install base is increasing
View Name:Guest
Subject: Wrong
Close Name:carnagex Posts: 443 Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Subject: check out the .mac of loug

---The billboard, which can be seen at the .Mac HomePage of loug, does not make it clear who is being targeted by the campaign, or why. Mr. Sholkin says his company does not yet know who is behind the billboard, and TMO is attempting to find out more about the group and its aims.---

(if you use the idisk utility type in loug to open his public folder, in it is a free pass to the exhibit hall -$35 value)

Thought you would like to know!

Close Name:MonkeyT Posts: 78 Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Subject: That Bill Gates, he's a sneaky one...

nt

Close Name:John F. Braun -   TMO Staff Posts: 232 Joined: 11 Jun 2001
Subject: Good Stuff

Quote
RealityCheck wrote:
Apple's non-participation only highlights in everyone's mind that Apple is moving on from the Mac to iPod/iTunes and other PC peripherals.


Wow. Give me whatever RC is having, but make it a double. Then maybe I can get into the mental state that could convince me that simply everyone is thinking this.

Personally, I'd wait until the financials come out to pass judgement. Apple has been showing steady growth in both income and revenue for a while now; let's hope they can keep it up. Then we'll have some facts to back up the Apple doomsday predictions. Not that RC needs facts to back up his babbling, since as we've seen in the past, he's just fine making stuff up in order to get people all excited.

Close Name:DawnTreader -   TMO Staff Posts: 14768 Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Subject: Re: No Need For Truck - No One's Going Anyway

Quote
RealityCheck wrote:


It wouldn't surprise me if the truck is from IDG in a desperate attempt to generate some publicity for the show, using reverse psychology.


Like your mindless efforts?

View Name:Guest
Subject: globalization?
View Name:Guest
Subject: Union Boycott? -- fill up the VW bug!
Close Name:DawnTreader -   TMO Staff Posts: 14768 Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Subject: Re: More evidence that the Mac is on the decline!

Quote


Guest, how does the Office Depot deal indicate Apple is on the decline?

View Name:Guest
Subject: reality check
View Name:Guest
Subject: lib vs lib
Close Name:Intruder -   TMO Mac Specialist Posts: 3079 Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Subject:

Quote
DawnTreader wrote:
Quote


Guest, how does the Office Depot deal indicate Apple is on the decline?


I'm hoping it was posted as sarcasm. Otherwise...

Close Name:Intruder -   TMO Mac Specialist Posts: 3079 Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Subject: Apple not attending

RC, There are a number of reasons why Apple is not attending:

1) Dispute between Apple and IDG regarding the location of MacWorld. Apple did not feel the location was in its best interest. It benefits IDG far more than Apple. That is their choice to make.

2) WWDC just ended last month. With the expectations everybody has of Apple releasing new products at every convention, it is a pace that is unsustainable

3) Expos cost a great deal of money for Apple, in this case probably with little perceived return. It is money that would be better spent on advertising to the masses rather than just to the expo attendees.

Try again.

Close Name:Bosco Posts: 999 Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Subject: How global trade helps US programmers

Well, this one anyway. If you were to add up the money I have made in my career and split it into what is directly attributable to a foreign source and what is not, you'd find more than half of what I have made is due to my ability to work freely with people around the world.

Once recent example... A friend of mine is Indian born, had two kids here, set up a business here. He maintains a small office in town, owns a home here, pays taxes. He and his decided that the kids needed to spend some time growing up in India as their families still live there. So he outsourced his own job to India, yet maintains ownership of his home, still keeps the office (and contracts with me to keep an eye on it), still pays taxes and bills and contributes here.

It was quite common in the dot-com boom for European companies to want to set up shop in the US. I was the first US employee of one such company, which set up shop 3 miles from my home and paid very good salaries to many US citizens in its stay here. During the 90s, the US was seen as the center of free trade, and small companies wanted to come here because we welcomed them and we welcomed the opportunities of the global marketplace, especially in the IT sector! Now, the IT labor force here is regarded around the world as a bunch of whiners. Even our own CEOs like Carly Fiorina of HP have expressed the sentiment, and you know what? They are right.

What blows me away is that all any disgruntled US IT worker has to do is re-embrace free trade, and that worker suddenly distinguishes himself from the legions of the disaffected. Simultaneously, embrace the purpose of business (make money) and ditch the feel-good free software rhetoric. Do that, and if you've got decent skills, you are instantly appealiing to people outside the US who would like to believe that we still want to compete, but don't find many qualified workers here who do.

To conclude... Last time I was in Boston for MacWorld was 1996, just at what seemed to be the beginning of the Big Dig. Traffic moved nowhere, and it seemed to this California boy like outside downtown, there was an overuse of brick as building material. It was slighly ironic that the largest brick building near the convention center was THE BRICKLAYERS UNION! This brick thing was great schtick for all the non-chowderheads. Everyone noticed it. Disgruntled US IT workers protesting in Boston should look for a lesson in this.

View Name:Guest
Subject: Apple's own outsourcing secret.
Close Name:Dean Lewis Posts: 157 Joined: 29 Sep 2001
Subject:

The only thing that is going to stop globalization of the workforce, environmental concerns, and many many other things is the deaths of about 3 Billion people or so. The more people in the world, the more you better be able to work with them (and be able to beat those who refuse to work together).

Close Name:geoduck Posts: 1865 Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Subject:

Quote
deasys wrote:
They're IT professionals afraid of the rising interest in Mac-based solutions, especially among 'alpha geeks.'


That isn't far off either. I've talked to other IT people that flatly have told me that Macs will cost jobs because they require less mainenance.

Close Name:Bryan -   TMO Staff Posts: 7334 Joined: 11 Jun 2001
Subject: Re: Lib vs. Lib

Quote
DrDude wrote:
Funny to see the liberal labor union types boycotting one of the most liberal leaning companies (Apple, at least their constituency and CEO) since Ben & Jerry's. Kinda makes you think that they can't decide which handout they want more. Ha.

Get off it. If your non-skilled job has gone overseas, increase your value by educating yourself rather than trying to bring down the rest of this great entrepreneurial economy.


DrDude, I fear you may not fully grasp all of the issues, here. Apple is not being boycotted, or is not the target of this campaign, but rather IDG. Apple is not involved.

Also, the recent great furor over outsourcing is not about unskilled jobs, which are largely already gone, but rather high-tech jobs, as I mentioned in the article. Mind you, I am of mixed opinions on this issue (long term outsourcing is better for the world, as it will bring up living standards elsewhere, while I think it foolish for companies like Apple, Dell, IBM, CitiBank, etc. to outsource support jobs due to what often amounts to a poor customer experience), but if you are going to argue the issue, at least argue salient points.

Close Name:grshaner Posts: 19 Joined: 07 May 2004
Subject: Globalization And the US

WOW! Never thought this would be the place for econ 101 to pop up! To the guest who has issues with Ayn Rand, I only hope that you find an economic theory as proven as free-markets to raise the standards for everyone who comes into contact with it. When the Koreans started undercutting the Japanese steel industry, (sound familiar?) the Japanese sounded all the same warning bells. Japan, the US, and all the other democratic free markets are still around, and will continue to be so. EVERYONE benefits here (in a long term perspective) because everyone gets better jobs. The US doesn't rely on farming anymore as the main activity, or even production. Now we are into services and information. And as those jobs get exported, we'll be in the forefront of whatever comes next. As for those who "can't wait 70 years" for that, the goal is to stay on top of what is going on and make what you enjoy doing valuable to someone else. That's what it's all about. So doomsayers beware! Optimism is everywhere!

View Name:Guest
Subject: uh - different guest - Ayn Rand Must die
View Name:Guest
Subject: Guest's description of Rand might be...
View Name:Guest
Subject:
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