Seems like every iLemming is under the influence of the Apple's RDF, they keep repeating the Steve Jobs myth that iTunes only exists to sell iPods. Like there's no profit in software. iTunes is the most expensive onlne music store their is, some albums are already over $20 each.

How many songs are on that $20 album?

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RealityCheck wrote:
Seems like every iLemming is under the influence of the Apple's RDF, they keep repeating the Steve Jobs myth that iTunes only exists to sell iPods. Like there's no profit in software. iTunes is the most expensive onlne music store their is, some albums are already over $20 each.

People...who...want...albums....buy...CDs...

Is that slow enough for you? There is no store where I can buy a song for 99 cents. People go to iTunes to buy songs, not albums. Who cares what albums are priced at? That's why Best Buy still exists.

And IANAL, but a copyright violation means Apple has to prove that code was copied from their source. Reverse engineering, for the purposes of compatibility, is legal (at least for the time being). So unless Apple is holding a patent for any portion of FairPlay that they could pull out to stop Real, I don't see them winning.

What Apple should focus on is the user experience. Make iPod/iTMS the best in the market and keep it there. It's worked so far.

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C-weed wrote:
What Apple should focus on is the user experience. Make iPod/iTMS the best in the market and keep it there. It's worked so far.

RC,
iLemmings, that's pretty clever. Did you think that up all by yourself? I have to say, it's the most clever think i've seen written by a WINdbag.

It's been around, as a term. I don't really get it...lots of animals form herds and follow each other around. Why pick a cute animal?

Maybe iBuffalo would be better as they seem to be pretty dumb looking. Actually, iPenguin would be best since they sometimes push another bird into the water to test for whales. If they survive the rest jump in. Here in the computer world we call those "early adopters."

Hmmm...iPenguins. I like it.

(And before someone writes in about the lemmings-off-the-cliff-thing...it's not true. Ok? Disney faked it. Got that? Lemmings don't commit suicide.)

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Small White Car wrote:
What Apple's thinking and what lawyers do aren't really the same thing at all.

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Small White Car wrote:
Hmmm...iPenguins. I like it.

don't do it!!!

US Code: Title 17, Section 1201

(f) Reverse Engineering. -
(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.

(3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section.

(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term ''interoperability'' means the ability of computer programs to exchange information, and of such programs mutually to use the information which has been exchanged.

Now, the 64 thousand dollar question: when did Real obtain legal rights to a copy of Fairplay, or the rights to use it?

As shown in a recent discussion, where little RC tried to show that iTMS prices on a BNL album was the highest, the facts actually showed that the iTMS price was several dollars less than the same CD from Amazon.

Sure, there are spot examples where iTMS is more expensive than other options, but this is the exception rather than the rule. Just remember than when RC makes a statement, he's doing it to get people worked up, and not basing it on facts.

If Real was trying to reverse engineer an algorithm that didn't involve removing encryption that protected a copyrighted work, then they're OK. But under the DMCA, as misguided as it may be, breaking encryption used to protect a copyright work is illegal. I think Real is going to get busted on this one.

Maybe they figured the gamble and legal costs would be worth all the publicity they knew they would get. I don't agree.

Real Could have legally obtained a copy of FairPlay the same way any one of us could have, by any one of the following

a) Buying an iPod
b) Downloading iTunes
c) Purchasing a song on the iTMS
d) doing all of the above

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Guest wrote:
US Code: Title 17, Section 1201

(f) Reverse Engineering. -
(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.

(3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section.

(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term ''interoperability'' means the ability of computer programs to exchange information, and of such programs mutually to use the information which has been exchanged.

Now, the 64 thousand dollar question: when did Real obtain legal rights to a copy of Fairplay, or the rights to use it?

I feel the biggest reason iTMS is such a success is because of how well it works with the OS. I really believe this is what separates Apple from other services who are not fairing quite as well. I bet if Apple paid no mind to Real's harmony it will go away. On the other hand giving consumers more choices is always a good thing. For consumers anyway.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Seems like every iLemming is under the influence of the Apple's RDF, they keep repeating the Steve Jobs myth that iTunes only exists to sell iPods. Like there's no profit in software. iTunes is the most expensive onlne music store their is, some albums are already over $20 each.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Seems like every iLemming is under the influence of the Apple's RDF, they keep repeating the Steve Jobs myth that iTunes only exists to sell iPods. Like there's no profit in software. iTunes is the most expensive onlne music store their is, some albums are already over $20 each.

When, in the iMac REV/A days, I needed desperately to use RealPlayer for a project I was doing in school, I got the Big Corporate FU from Real.

A very commonplace thing had happened : my bank was bought out by another and new credit cards were issued.

I tried everything to update my (LOYAL) account with Real and they refused to lift a finger for me : would not accept me re-enrolling with a new card; would not take a personal check in snail-mail; would not take a Cashier's check same way; would not take currency ; --- all I got from their over-stuffed corporate yam-with-a-necktie , on the phone, was : " Sir, we have made a business decision regarding security and it means that a certain percentage of our customers will be left out in the cold. You happen to be one of those and that is not going to change." I had done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that even hinted at security risks.

Their free player is almost impossible to find.

Their web page design made it impossible to quit their monthly charges on my credit card --- I had to get another card number and kill the number they had, to stop them from taking more of my money.

Their site tries like a wolf to get your card number just to view or try any little thing.

Their player takes over other players and is a beetch to remove completely.

It is covered with ads.

Back then, they baited us with a provider of old TV sci-fi shows which went from free to an attempted $500 / year idiocy in no time.

I was once again reminded of Apple's class when SJ snubbed that jerk from Real and I hope Apple eats Real's lunch -- good and proper : Real is worse than Microsoft as far as parasitic, corporate criminal attitude goes.

GO GETTEM STEVE !!!!!!!!

Damned glad to be a Mac Lemming ,

---gooddog

/

: * ] AAaaaRRrrFFff !!!!!

\

Up here, where Real is based, it is commonly acknowledged to be the least respected compnay in the Pacific Northwest. Every time its stock goes down, I hear someone sighing relief that tonight may be the night Real dies. I hope Apple drags this out long enough to kill Real once and for all.