The Playlist Web site has an interesting article on this topic, an interview with leading personal stereo expert, academic Dr. Michael Bull.

"(Sony) accidentally touched on the cultural zeitgeist - the power of privatized musical-pleasure - control!"
But Sony's "lost the plot", he said. "It's like they stumbled on something - the technology was very simple - but they failed to understand the music industry and technology."
You can find the whole interview here
http://www.ipod-dj.com/thescience.html

I've been an apple user for years now, and one thing that has never changed is Apple stuburness. Apple has known for many months that batterylife is the ipod's only weakness, yet they do very little about it. Increasing the 4th generation to 12 is a start, but this sony thing can get 31+ hours. One of these days, there will be an ipod like object that has 30+ hours and the ease of use of the ipod.

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Stasic AJ wrote:
One of these days, there will be an ipod like object that has 30+ hours and the ease of use of the ipod.

But by the time that day comes, you have to figure that the iPod as a cultural symbol will have grown stronger than it even is today, and people will want that first and foremost. Also, and I don't know this, but is any of that interface of the iPod (scroll-wheel, etc) patented? If so, then I think that's still where they will kick everyone else's butt. To me, the battery life of 8 hours on my 3G 20GB only got to me on two 24 hour bus rides back and forth from Chicago to Jackson, WY. I mean, honestly, who is gonna need 30+ hours of battery life? You just plop it in the charger when you sleep, how hard is that? 8 I can understand being too little, but 12 hours would seem, to me atleast, to hit the spot.</battery life rant>

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Stasic AJ wrote:
... Apple has known for many months that batterylife is the ipod's only weakness, yet they do very little about it.

IIRC, going from 8 to 12 hours a 50% performance improvement.

In any event, it is a trade-off, between:

A) The current performance & price that comes from using a common, inexpensive, off-the-shelf PDA battery pack?

-versus-

B) For Apple to have to raise the price by $100 or so because they had to go have a nonstandard battery pack with a longer battery life built?

IMO, I think most customers would prefer Option A over B.

Afterall, we can't have our cake and eat it too...which is obviously part of the reason why the Sony is $100 more expensive than the 20G iPod.

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Increasing the 4th generation to 12 is a start, but this sony thing can get 31+ hours. One of these days, there will be an ipod like object that has 30+ hours and the ease of use of the ipod.

If you'll accept an accessory for your iPod, then "One of these days" is today.

Belkin's battery extender is MRSP $70 ($60 if you shop around) and running off of plain old AA's adds 15-20 hours of runtime.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=148969

Or for $120, a Li-Ion rechargable battery pack from Battery Technology adds 40 hours of runtime:

http://www.laptoptravel.com/Product.aspx?PC=BAT1223


FYI, both of these products were found in Google in roughly one minute with the search terms of: iPod battery extender.


-hh

Spxyu02, you make a good point.

Is battery life really all that relavent? 12 hours of continuos play is more than adequate for 90% of users, I would wager. I've only run into the 8 hour limit on my iPod once, and that's because I forgot to turn it off once.

Also, as I understand it, battery life can be increased by using inferior bit rates, turning off the backlights, and other such draining features. I wonder how an iPod would last if we matched bit rates with Sony's.

The net of it is that, while battery life is a feature that others may do better, the iPod's battery life is more than good enough, and should deter anyone from buying it.

Vern Seward

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spxyu02 wrote:
but is any of that interface of the iPod (scroll-wheel, etc) patented? If so, then I think that's still where they will kick everyone else's butt.

Yep - it's all patented. That's why there are no other scroll wheels. And, not coincidentally - that's why no other player has as good an interface.

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Billy K wrote:
Yep - it's all patented. That's why there are no other scroll wheels. And, not coincidentally - that's why no other player has as good an interface.

Not with the intent to like, stunt hardware innovation efforts in the realm of digital music, but honestly, why does anyone else even try? I mean, if no one can touch the scroll wheel, they aren't gonna get very far. They should all just make 3rd party accessories, I'm sure Griffin and Belkin are making bank off of that stuff.

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spxyu02 wrote:
but honestly, why does anyone else even try?

I wonder that myself all the time. I mean, somebody will come up with something....eventually...maybe... but nobody is even in the same league as Apple right now. All the competition can do is add whistles and gee-gaws and hope that'll sway some customers.

Remember the first Walkman? Four buttons and a volume. Simplicity. Just like the iPod. That's why they're number one. Not because of battery life (they lose there), not because of capacity (that's a tie), not because of size (they're in the middle), not because of extra features (they have fewer). It's just easy to enjoy, and that's the key.

Now where's my iPhone?

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Billy K wrote:
Now where's my iPhone?

Well, after just getting my first bill for my first ever cell phone earlier this summer, I think that's something that apple should have no part of. Granted they could just do the design and pass of all the service stuff to somebody else, but that whole thing is such a mess. When my receipt for the initial purchase of everything is taller than I am, that's not a good sign

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spxyu02 wrote:

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Stasic AJ wrote:
One of these days, there will be an ipod like object that has 30+ hours and the ease of use of the ipod.

But by the time that day comes, you have to figure that the iPod as a cultural symbol will have grown stronger than it even is today, and people will want that first and foremost

This sounds like it could be translated as "Apple users will put with stupid Apple product shortcomings like low battery life does just because they're into the brand so much."

And yes I am a long-time Mac user.

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Anonymous wrote:
This sounds like it could be translated as "Apple users will put with stupid Apple product shortcomings like low battery life does just because they're into the brand so much."

And yes I am a long-time Mac user.

Actually, I was going for the opposite end. I guess they would become apple users, but I was thinking more of anyone that wants to be hip or cool and down with the latest fashion, which is of course to have 2 white cords coming out of your jacket or pocket somewhere, and then be walking down the sidewalk with those buds screaming "i have an iPod"

I mean, tech specs aside, there have to be a huge percentage of iPod owners all about the look more than most anything else.

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Guest wrote:
This sounds like it could be translated as "Apple users will put with stupid Apple product shortcomings like low battery life does just because they're into the brand so much."

12 hours is not a "shortcoming." 30 hours is pointless for the majority of users. I have no problem with the "eight" (more like six) hours I get from my 3G. But, some people just gotta have something to complain about, right?

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spxyu02 wrote:
I mean, tech specs aside, there have to be a huge percentage of iPod owners all about the look more than most anything else.

Funny (kinda) story - I work at BigStuffy Corp. I take my iPod out on smoke breaks. I've never seen another one here. I still get basic questions about it, like, "what IS that thing?" So, my point is, my co-workers are WAY out of touch.

Anyway, there was a group of 4 or 5 teens here for something the other day, I walk past them, and that was the only time someone has made a "cool - an iPod" type of comment. That's been my only personal brush with the "hip factor" of the iPod.

Although... the other day I was in our local Apple Store, and I thought it was really weird to overhear 11-year old girls discussing the various iPod Mini accessories they have/want.

P.S. spxyu02, you just joined TMO yesterday, and you've already got 40 posts? You talk a lot.

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-hh wrote:
Belkin's battery extender is MRSP $70 ($60 if you shop around) and running off of plain old AA's adds 15-20 hours of runtime.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&amp;Product_Id=148969

Or for $120, a Li-Ion rechargable battery pack from Battery Technology adds 40 hours of runtime:

http://www.laptoptravel.com/Product.aspx?PC=BAT1223

-hh

With another few minutes of searching, you can find the Battery Technology product for just $75!

http://www.provantage.com/buy-7BATB031-lithium-ion-battery-ipod-technology-batteries-b01-shopping.htm

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VSeward wrote:
Spxyu02, you make a good point.

Is battery life really all that relavent? 12 hours of continuos play is more than adequate for 90% of users, I would wager. I've only run into the 8 hour limit on my iPod once, and that's because I forgot to turn it off once.

Vern Seward

Aahh... the infamous BatteryHertz Myth...

Like many things in the tech industry, its a big number for geek factor bragging rights. Its like playing Top Trumps (ah the good old days). It may be utterly meaningless but when you're comparing, you see a bigger number on this model than that model and you go for it. Do you sit back and go, well that would mean I wouldn't have to re-charge my iPod for a week, I could live with that for a unit half the size and weight of the others.

Sanj

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Anonymous wrote:
P.S. spxyu02, you just joined TMO yesterday, and you've already got 40 posts? You talk a lot.

It's true.

a) I've gone through withdrawal from being a very active poster at a smashing pumpkins/general interest forum during the school year.
b) I'm an intern -> not much work -> bored alot -> lots of posts

It is the greatest player BY FAR!!! And the COOLEST!!! Anyone knocking it is only a poor fool with...ipod envy. MUhahahahhahaHA

"...but this sony thing can get 31+ hours"

...playing songs at 48 kbps. I wonder how many hours of battery life the Sony would get playing songs at a more acceptable 128 kbps? My guess is that it would be a lot closer to the iPod's 12 hours...

"...playing songs at 48 kbps. I wonder how many hours of battery life the Sony would get playing songs at a more acceptable 128 kbps? My guess is that it would be a lot closer to the iPod's 12 hours..."

It is around 27 hours

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deasys wrote:
"...but this sony thing can get 31+ hours"

...playing songs at 48 kbps. I wonder how many hours of battery life the Sony would get playing songs at a more acceptable 128 kbps? My guess is that it would be a lot closer to the iPod's 12 hours...

About 27 hours

Another old news? Sony had launched a new Walkman recently in Japan and Europe.

Btw, I own an 5 GBytes 1G iPod. 8 hrs is ok to me since most of time I don't listen to music for more than one hour.