How close to the wall would the iMac be mounted? Is the selection of VESA compliant arms more limited? because the iMac couldn't be mounted flush with the wall surface.

I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

Hmmmm...I don't know. I didn't opt for a wireless card on my desktop since it sits right next to my base station. I figured the expense didn't make much sense to bridge that 12" gap since I had a piece of Cat5 laying around for free. $80...free...$80...free. Simple enough for me, but I can see the clutter argument too.

I see comments on plugging and unplugging periphial cables. Just use a hub aand place it someplace convienent.

Wall mounting would be difficult, if not impossible, due to the placement of the ports.

I wired my house with cat5e, and it works fine for me. I keep thinking I need wireless, then realise I don't. This back and forth has been going on in my house, and at my job, for two years now. Until wireless chipsets are as standard and cheap as ethernet, I don't believe everyone will want it. I think it's cool, but for my needs wireless in its current forms would be a real pain.

Even for the new iMac, a wireless network would just add to the cool look, if you have a wireless keyboard and mouse too.

> Bluetooth can not be added to an iMac by a consumer. It must be added at the factory.

Not exactly - you can't buy the internal Apple BT receiver , bur you could use a 3. party BT->USB adaptor. IIRC they should work even with Apple's BT keyboard.

Quote

acdc1174 wrote:
Hmmmm...I don't know. I didn't opt for a wireless card on my desktop since it sits right next to my base station. I figured the expense didn't make much sense to bridge that 12" gap since I had a piece of Cat5 laying around for free. $80...free...$80...free. Simple enough for me, but I can see the clutter argument too.

Not to mention many people don't have a wireless network to begin with, and that's at least an additional expense if you want to buy an Airport Express or Base Station or other 802.11 router. I'm sure lots of families and dorm students and grandparents will just plug the thing into their cable modem or phoneline.

Not that it wouldn't be NICE to have all that stuff included. But if it keeps the base price down by $80+ to entice a few more of those families and students and grandmas, that's a reasonably good thing.

Plus .. now that I think about it ... I often seem to find an extra Airport card laying around from a friend or from an older computer I'd sold or stripped for parts or whatnot ... Hey, if you can reuse previously-purchased hardware and save yourself $80, that's a good thing too, no?

They go in to buy one and get the basic models because they don't really understand how to use one. (One lady called customer support complaining that she couldn't turn her new computer on no matter how many times she pressed the foot pedal - she sews a lot and thought the mouse was a foot pedal.) The base iMac is perfect for them and they'll be happy for years. IF they get more computer savvy they might get a memory upgrade, a digital camera and and iPod. There is no need to add to the cost for this very large group of people.

Wireless & BT are great, but a long way down the road for many - if ever.

I think Apple has done a pretty good balancing act with the G5 iMac and can't wait for mine to arrive.

I think he's right, there are a lot of companies, big and small, that don't want any type of wireless. Companies that will probably have at least several of the new imacs.

I will be placing an order for a iMac G5 and it won't have wireless. The extra cost isn't worth it for me. Also at work, one more cable running behind the cubicle wall isn't a big deal and I can always add it later. I don't have wireless at home so I wouldn't need it there either. Lastly, a number of my friends won't use wireless because they deal with secure/confidential material and are uncomfortable with broadcasting this data.

So I know of a lot of situations where people would specifically not want wireless standard. I prefer for desktop computers to have this as an option.

My PB has wireless and I use it all the time, but that's a different story.

Quote

AFCdtLoeb wrote:
Wall mounting would be difficult, if not impossible, due to the placement of the ports.

Note Tom Boger specifically talked about mounting to a VESA-compliant arm, not flush against the wall. That implies to me that the iMac will not be flush against the wall (as well as be adjustable).

I think what they mean when they say wall mount is not flush on the wall like a painting, but rather attached to a wall mounted arm. In this case the cabling would not be an issue.

"The new iMac is 25 decibels quieter than the old iMac."

Seeing how the old iMac was 28 decibals, I'm *pretty* certain that this should read:

"The new iMac is 25 decibels, quieter than the old iMac."

i.e., it's actually 3 decibels quieter, not 25!

Quote

scottk wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

I must respectfully disagree with you, scottk. Both my father and my mother-in-law are looking at buying the new iMac, and neither of them has any need for wireless. When I asked if they would have preferred to pay an extra $100 per machine for a feature they wouldn't use, in each case they gave me a strange look and laughed.

So no, not everybody wants wireless.

Quote

scottk wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

As a lab administrator, I can definately agree with Mr. Boger. Apple Remote Desktop does not run effectively over wireless and therefore a wireless lab is NOT useful.

Is there any reason one could not add a USB Bluetooth Adapter to the G5 iMac? If not, Bluetooth capability could be added at a later time.

There is also a magnetic mounting point on the iMac (back or top?) for the new iSight magnetic mounting kit that works with the new Cinema displays as well.

"I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless?"

Yeah, that's right, not everyone wants wireless. Since when do you speak for everybody?

My desktop is right next to the DSL modem. If I buy a PowerMac G5 and leave out the AirPort card and the dialup modem, I save about $100!

Don't take away my freedom to save money.

If you have your heart set on ordering one you better have a hobby or something to keep your mind occupied, otherwise the wait might kill you. Mac anxiety..notice any gray hairs starting to appear.

Quote

BlueDjinn wrote:
"The new iMac is 25 decibels quieter than the old iMac."

Seeing how the old iMac was 28 decibals, I'm *pretty* certain that this should read:

"The new iMac is 25 decibels, quieter than the old iMac."

i.e., it's actually 3 decibels quieter, not 25!

Good catch. Then again, the decibel scale is logarithmic, so perhaps a 3 point drop is a 25% reduction...

the only real reason for a wifi is if you want to easily create a network with a laptop.

I only own one computer. Why would I want to put in extra money for a feature that I cannot ever use?

Apple decision was smart, and will save me money, when I save up enough money to buy the new iMac.

Arpan

Quote

scottk wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

A customer that doesn't need or want wireless (i.e ethernet cable/dsl modem or dialup) would get no benefit from being forced to purchase a wireless card that is of no use to them. Likewise the base memory of 256MB, which is fine for most casual users. It's easy to upgrade either if you want it.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/sep2004/tc2004091_5017_tc056.htm

What's with the 256MB of ram?

Quote

edtekker wrote:
Good catch. Then again, the decibel scale is logarithmic, so perhaps a 3 point drop is a 25% reduction...

Some interesting info on computer noise levels...I did a bit of research on noise measurements and came up with the following tutorial:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewar...

Apparently, the iMacs' 25 dB is indeed at the very quiet end, while typical PCs range from 35-45 dB. Heavy-duty tricked-out gaming machines come in at up to 60 dB.

However, since dBs are measured on a logarithmic scale, so a 10 dB difference evidently means *double* the total noise.

Based on this, a 45 dB system is apparently 4x as loud as a 25 dB system, which sounds about right to me (no pun intended).

For comparison, according to this site, 30 dB is a "very soft whisper":

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/faqhowquiet.html

actually, a 6 decibel difference amounts to twice as loud. so the new imac's 3 dB drop would be 50% less noise. i think that's the right math.

When they say you can wall mount it, they're not saying the iMac will be flush up against the wall. The VESA system will be mounted to the wall and the arm will hold the iMac.

I get really tired of people bashing Apple constantly for what they feel they aren't getting.

I really appreciate Apple's not tricking out the new iMac with a lot of items that I may not want, then charging a premium for them. I'd rather buy aftermarket memory. It's cheaper. I don't need bluetooth. Glad I don't have to pay for that. Don't want an Airport card. It's going to be sitting next to my switch on my office desk.

I choose what I want, and only pay for what I need. The 20" beats the pants off the older G4 version spec-wise. I like the new design alot in terms of reduced footprint, though I recognize that that's a very subjective issue. And all of this comes in $300 less that the previous incarnation. For those that want the extra goodies, buy them. I'm just glad I don't have to.

Thanks Apple. My order has been placed.

The new iMac should have had Bluetooth built in as a standard feature, and it should include Apple's wireless keyboard & mouse.

As with the PowerMac G5, if you want the internal BT card, you have to order it as a build to order option.

If you don't order it with BT, you can add BT later via the popular D-Link USB dongle, which Apple also sells.

With noise an increase of 3dB is twice as loud. So 3dB less noise = 50% less noise.

Here's some stuff about dB:

<http://www.siemon.com/us/white_papers/99-05-17-whatis-inadb.asp>

I bet you could wall mount it if there was 2 or 3 inches of clearance between the wall and computer for the cords etc...

With sound, a 3dB increase is twice as loud, so 3dB less noise = 50% less noise.

More dB stuff here:

http://www.siemon.com/us/white_papers/99-05-17-whatis-inadb.asp

Hope this message will appear.

Quote

Guest wrote:

Quote

scottk wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

As a lab administrator, I can definately agree with Mr. Boger. Apple Remote Desktop does not run effectively over wireless and therefore a wireless lab is NOT useful.

You haven't tried Airport Extreme have you? Or maybe you need help setting things up. Most small to medium sized labs run fine wireless unless you've got more than 100 computers or you're moving GBs of data.

Quote

Guest wrote:

Quote

scottk wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

A customer that doesn't need or want wireless (i.e ethernet cable/dsl modem or dialup) would get no benefit from being forced to purchase a wireless card that is of no use to them. Likewise the base memory of 256MB, which is fine for most casual users. It's easy to upgrade either if you want it.

I have no use for Ethernet or Modem, so why force me to pay for those? I won't be using the Firewire ports either, so take those away too and save me a few nickels. I've got some floppies I'd like to use, why not bring back the floppy or at least make it an option!

Quote

I won't be using the Firewire ports either, so take those away too and save me a few nickels.

It would actually cost MORE to offer a version without things like firewire. Henry Ford taught us the power of the automated assembaly line. By making all the cases and most parts the same, you can save money by having high volumes. Things like bluetooth are extra parts that are put in near the end of the line, so leaving them out really does just save the cost of the part.

Stuff like firewire, speakers, and the modem, are all tightly integrated into the design of the case and the motherboard. Making a version WITHOUT things like that would require a different model to be made, which is less efficient, which is more expensive. Maybe not much more, but at LEAST as much as the cost of the parts you'd be "saving" on.

Has everybody lost their mind? Bluetooth is an incomplete and insecure standard at best. It is easily hacked (there's a guy running around our campus that can hack into any bluetooth device and erase your address book as he pleases).

Also, there is now a Bluetooth virus that goes from phone to phone on the Symbian network.

Why would anybody choose to go with this? Next thing you know, they'll put bluetooth on your refrigerator and it will catch a computer virus for sure!

why should wireless be automaticallyl included? It's a waste of money in an environment that has Gigabit or 10/100 ethernet, which is a LOT of universities and other schools. By making us all pay $80 to $100 more, the prices would be less competitive than they are now.

So, not everybody wants it. I like my speed thank you. Wireless gets you real throughput of about 3 mpbs total, even on a 54 mpbs network. And that's if your next to the base station.

No thanks.

"I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless?"

You can respectfully disagree but that doesn't make you correct. Some businesses can't or won't support wireless networking, and some consumer still find it a daunting technical proposition. It's good that Apple has made this optional, for other reasons too: It helps them keep the price lower, and it gives retailers an upsell opportunity.

Lost in all the wireless debate is that wired ethernet is a lot faster 100 Mbps vs 54 Mbps. Not to mention that wireless connections offer reduced connection speeds on a sliding scale the further you are further away form the base-station (I think the min. is like 1 Mbps which is very slow). The G5 iMac are fast enough to do some pretty serious work and bandwidth to a file server can be a major bottleneck.

My view is simple. If its not a laptop, and wireless is slower, and wireless is much more costly, and a spare wireless card might to available from the machine you are upgrading from; Than wireless ethernet should be optional. It is almost impossible to justify imposing a $79 wireless card on everybody who buys a computer under these conditions.

What does "dual layer" ready mean? That the Superdrive cannot burn dual-layer DVDs, or that it cannot PLAY dual layer DVDs? I can't imagine it not being able to play them, but I want to make sure.

Quote

scottk wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Boger. Not everyone wants wireless? Well, even though it's not portable, there's something to be said for reducing clutter of wires on the desk.

Hello, I work in a Government instalation where Wireless is outlawed. Having it "built-in" would never be an option. That would disallow the possibility of this machine ever being allowed into the building, let allone connected to the network.

Bob
--
Sr. Network Engineer
US D.O.T.

Quote

Tiger wrote:
why should wireless be automaticallyl included? It's a waste of money in an environment that has Gigabit or 10/100 ethernet, which is a LOT of universities and other schools. By making us all pay $80 to $100 more, the prices would be less competitive than they are now.

So, not everybody wants it. I like my speed thank you. Wireless gets you real throughput of about 3 mpbs total, even on a 54 mpbs network. And that's if your next to the base station.

No thanks.

If you remember recently, Apple made Bluetooth and Airport Extreme standard equipment on the Powerbooks at no increased cost. If Apple did make the decision to make at least Bluetooth standard on the new iMacs, it wouldn't increase costs. If you made it a built-in part on the board (just like firewire, usb, etc.) it wouldn't matter. This was a pure logistics decision. They decided not to do it, plain and simple. You can make the argument either way, but Apple decided against it.

I believe I remember that 3db equals half as loud scientifically speaking. To the human ear though that is the smallest difference it is able to detect.

So the new iMac should be just a little bit quieter than the old one. No revolution here, but a small evolution.

OK, this is very confusing.

The source I cited below indicates a 10 dB = twice as loud ratio.

Several others here claim that it's actually 3 dB = twice as loud.

If the iMac runs at 25 dB and a standard PC runs at 45 dB, my source would indicate the PC running 4x as loud (25>35>45), which sounds reasonable to me.

The 3 dB ratio would indicate that the PC was more than 64 times as loud!! (25>28>31>34>37>40>43), which sound ludicrous to me!

Apple is including the bluetooth adapter, wireless keyboard and mouse as a bundle for 100. While a 3rd party bluetooth adapter may be a little less, the elegance of having everything inside and having only a power cable coming out of your computer is phenomenal. Of course, that assumes you also get the Airport Express for wireless. While happy that Apple did not include these features, for me this iMac SCREAMS wireless and only one cable out of it.

I am ordering an iMac later next month...but it will definetly have Blue Tooth. I may not need wireless networking...but it will have Blue Tooth with the wireless keyboard and mouse....only a hundred dollars...That is well worth it.

Jon

Quote

the only real reason for a wifi is if you want to easily create a network with a laptop.

No. Suppose someone has computers in separate rooms, or floors. If they don't want to drill holes or run cables along the floor, wireless is a relatively affordable option. Money would be saved on buying cables, and any more than 2 machines would require a router (or at least a hub or access point) anyway.

No, of course not everybody needs wireless.

Quote

The arm adapter on the iMac is an industry standard. As a result, any arm that is VESA compliant will work. An adapter kit is available from Apple to make compliant arms work, so the iMac could potentially be mounted on a wall.

Huh? First is says the adapter is built on to the iMac, then it says a kit is available from Apple. Which is it?