LinuxInsider: Macs Are Faster
LinuxInsider: Macs Are Faster
by , 6:00 PM EDT, October 1st, 2004
LinuxInsider has published an interesting editorial from Paul Murphy who asks which is faster, Macs or PCs? In answer to that question, he says: "The short answer can be based entirely on raw hardware capabilities, and that answer is pretty simple: the Mac wins hands down." He goes on to say:
For example, the NCSA "Tungsten" cluster computer built last year was recently upgraded to include 2,500 dual Xeon Dell Poweredge 1750 servers at 3.2 GHz. According to NCSA public affairs, this thing has a theoretical peak capacity of about 32 Tereflops and yields about 15.36 teraflops in operation -- meaning that each CPU contributes about 3.1 Gigaflops to actual throughput.
In contrast, the cluster built last year at Virginia Tech using 1,100 Mac desktops has a theoretical peak of about 18.2 Teraflops and initially benchmarked at 8.1 Teraflops to deliver a contribution of 3.7 Gigaflops per CPU.
Although that was 19 percent better than the most recent Dell Xeon's, later machines built with Apple's X-Serves do much better because they have fewer I/O bottlenecks. Thus the Mach5 cluster built by Colsa Corp. and the U.S. Army, uses 1,566 dual CPU X-serves to deliver an expected 15 Teraflops in sustained throughput. That's 4.8 Gigaflops per CPU -- more than 50 percent faster than the Xeon -- and that's with last year's 2.0 GHz G5.
It can be argued, of course, that this comparison isn't fair because the Xeon is an older 32 bit processor and not generationally comparable to the G5. It might be better, therefore, to compare the X-serve cluster to machines built using a more modern 64 bit processor like AMD's (NYSE: AMD) Opteron's. "Lightning," at Los Alamos National Laboratory , uses 2,816 Opterons to produce a peak of 11,264 or 4.0 Gigaflops per CPU -- 30 percent better than the Xeons, but still 20 percent less than the G5s.
The article in its entirety goes on to address many of the issues on what makes such comparisons difficult, as well as other related issues. Included in those issues is that despite his quantitative answers, many questions regarding which platform is better simply can not be unresolved. We recommend the full article as a good read.
The Mac Observer Spin:
That it comes from a Linux-focused publication just makes it that much more interesting. While we will continue to point out that Linux and Mac platforms face the same enemy, Windows, what's important is that this piece wasn't pumped out by a Mac fan site, but rather a site aimed at the Linux community. That said, it's a corporate-owned site, part of the E-Commerce Times network, and not a fan-driven site, so some of the impact is certainly lost.Additionally, E-Commerce Times aims its publications more at the IT world than community-oriented sites like The Mac Observer, but that means that the article is raising issues of speed in front of an audience that could conceivably produce Switchers.
Observer Comments
"While we will continue to point out that Linux and Mac platforms face the same enemy, Windows"...
Can't someone start a project on an open source GarageBand type program, so that we can send our linux brothers our best recreations of "We shall overcome"?
Serious, I liken mac and OSS to anything Windows, but "enemy"? Not if that means I'll have to throw out this really great mouse and fairly useable- and sadly, best of breed - piece of Office software.
I'm still hoping for a successful OSX native KDE port and a cool Quartz OOo but until then, I fear I can't live without Windows...
Rrrrrrant over...
The Virginia Tech cluster has an operational speed of 10,28Tflops not 8,1Tflops..
This was in the unofficial first test, not in the official test of TOP500.org...
So, actually it's 4,67Glops per CPU.. (10.280Glops : 1100 : 2)
See here:
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/11/17.1.shtml
Bryan & MOB Readers, Read ME at www.faq-mac.com
coolkamio (@faq-mac.com)
(Sorry for my bad english..)
Quotezpok wrote:
"While we will continue to point out that Linux and Mac platforms face the same enemy, Windows"...
Can't someone start a project on an open source GarageBand type program, so that we can send our linux brothers our best recreations of "We shall overcome"?
Serious, I liken mac and OSS to anything Windows, but "enemy"? Not if that means I'll have to throw out this really great mouse and fairly useable- and sadly, best of breed - piece of Office software.
I'm still hoping for a successful OSX native KDE port and a cool Quartz OOo but until then, I fear I can't live without Windows...
Rrrrrrant over...
Huh? OS X supports up to 5 button mice, with scroll wheel. and office is available for os x... am I missing something?
Oooops, I've been mixing MicroSoft with Windows arbitrarily. What I wanted to say - inexpertly - was that
1) as a consumer I don't feel enmity towards Windows - I just don't use it if I can help it
2) Microsoft (not Windows) does have some good products, like Office X on the mac and the nice mouse me and my wife are using...
3) I hardly see Linux as the enemy, I think the idea of Linux and OSS is pretty cool even as the software mostly isn't (for me, for me, personal opinion)...
And as long as the alternatives for Office aren't there yet, I can't wish for Microsoft to disappear...
Sorry, my bad
btw: I know the hardware division of MS has little to do with MS the software giant, and I know quite a lot about MS's tactics which leads a lot of people to logically see them as enemies. I let my consumer side speak for once... and while it's true that MS is one dirty player, it isn't the only one. None of the "others" are "nice". Maybe they are from a consumer stand point, but in that particular universe, MicroSoft is plenty "nice" too, giving away free browsers and mediaplayers 
For instance, OSS is very lax in giving past developers and creative people credit. I'm not talking legalese here, just stating they copy a lot of good ideas - like everybody else - and then they go "long live Linux, the rest sux", just like everybody else. They as a community are not nicer, just cheaper. And some of their users are worse in attitude than the most stupid mac user who thinks he's god's gift to computer users because of his hardware choices...
And certainly Apple is not a "nice" company. They can be as arrogant as the rest, and then some... Ask any developer or hapless webby with the wrong domain name who's come across their legal team. And while I really love Jobs' distortions and the Jobs-Ives tandem of great useful toy-making, you have to always be very careful when translating their specs and claims to the real world - like with every computer company. I remember the "toast" campaign, and loved it, seeing those pentiums burn burn burn, but couldn't ignore the fact that in reality, the one where I sadly happened to live in, my friend's PC ran circles around my mac without going woosh at all. And he had the cool games. And his PC while being a piece of junk had better multimedia than mine, even if he had to sell his soul to use it. And his software was cheap. Thank god things got better eventually...
In short: the consumer in me tells me to be smart and use what's useful and leave the wars to the players.
Even shorter, I felt the need to rant...
Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:05 am Subject: Victims of RDF Overdose-PC 12x Faster Than Dual 2.5 G5
Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:16 am Subject: RealityCheck's competition
Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:19 am Subject: Re: Victims of RDF Overdose-PC 12x Faster Than Dual 2.5 G5
QuoteRealityCheck wrote:
Check the facts:
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/9/emw162566.htm
Read it and weep Mac zealots.
::Reads linked article::
::Weeps::
So the rest of you don't have to read this thing, I'll summarize. (and please, if you don't believe me, read it yourself. I have nothing to hide here.)
The linked article is a press release (emediawire is a prweb.com website) by one Michael's Computers out of Marina del Rey, California, promoting his MX8, "World's PROVEN only Personal Computer to perform operations instantly." To give a taste of the press release, here's a few quotes.
QuoteMichael's Computers wrote:
ATI's x800 Video Card is IN! And you NEED this human reality visual card! Graphics are ultra REAL! 65% FASTER than previous Radeon 9800XT Pro!
QuoteMichael's Computers wrote:
That's why those who use Michael's Computers are the only fortunate customers to experience near CLICK INSTANT performance.
As for RealityCheck's claim of '12x faster', I see only this remark.
QuoteMichael's Computers wrote:
Featuring the NEW Intel 3600MHz Pentium 4 'E' processor, it outperforms it's nearest competition 12X faster than Apple's G5 Dual 2.5GHz!.
Erm, excuse me. Benchmarks?
As for RealityCheck's claim of 'good price', I find this:
QuoteMichael's Computers wrote:
Oops, wait. I don't actually see any price in this press release. I suppose I could call or mail Michael's Computers, but I frankly don't feel like spending the time to debunk further. Ah well.
Jason
Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:33 am Subject: Janson, Here's The Prices
Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:56 pm Subject:
Interesting. At another link, Michael's claims to be 128% faster than the dual G5, not 12x.
And as far as I know, there is no "United States Navy Sidewinder Missile Division in California". There is a program office in China Lake. And the USG is not prone to buying white box machines. They buy from a supplier like Dell or Compaq.
SATA-X? It's called a RAID. There is no 600GB SATA drive. It is only achievable with a RAID (does not call it that, though). Specialized XPPro kernal? I don't think so. On is 7.7 seconds? Highly doubtful.
The guy is a scam. Other than on his own website, I can find no hard evidence that anybody has ever actually received a machine from him.
Leave it to RC to post a scam as evidence.
check out slashdot and pcworld and wired and even better, register for "micheal computer", this guy is the biggest scam in all of the tech industry. he claims outrageous performance and cant deliver, literally can't deliver. this guy runs the scam out of his little house in Cali, micheal probalby is RC, that would explain the stupidity that spews from the catastrophically dismal and naive wound in his face.
I wonder how many people actually buy AppleCare. I was brand spankin new to owning a Mac, my wife had never even seen one before. I called tech support ONCE, and that was over an AOL problem (at the time I worked for them and didn't have a choice). I haven't had a single problem and don't expect to. BTW, who in their right freaking mind would offer an 8 year warranty in the computer world? IMO this guy would be bankrupt by the end of the 8 year period b/c of the amount of computers he would be getting back.
Quote
I don't think this word ("facts") means what you think it means, RC.
i love the first question on the FAQ...
Q: When a client says “But what about support? We have always chosen Dell"
A: (a bunch of lies about the Navy clipped out) "I only choose Michael's Computers over any other company because it’s far better to know the maker and someone you can trust and is a Christian.â€
... i am sooooooo sure the Navy has a contract with this guy. looks like a 1-person operation at most. he probably built a machine for his navy recruiter buddy up the street and qualified that as meaning 'i build computers for the US Navy.'
it's been awhile since i've since BS this rich. even funnier that it was used to supposedly prove a point... hahahahhaaha! nice one.
check it out... http://michaelscomputers.com/faqs.htm
Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:18 pm Subject: sincere appeal to reality check
hi rc,
who ever you are i used to appreciate some of your posts as they bring a different view from the rest;
but now a days you are becoming a complete out and out troll and mis-informer. if you want people to take your posts seriously, please post only good links; do not try to debunk people; any way i hope it makes you feel good that not every one here hates you; but i for one do appreciate that you are the devil's advocte for this site ; please try to keep your position by writing only valid and relevant posts;
cheers
.....
Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:43 pm Subject: Re: Not this guy again
In response to the question as to whether anyone has actually received a machine from Michael's Computers, I have. I purchased a laptop machine from him about a year ago and it arrived in a timely fashion and has performed pretty well overall. I did my own windows installation and tuning, so I have it moving pretty fast.
My problem is not with the speed of the machines or the advertising, but rather with Michael's warranties and after-purchase support. I've had to replace a power supply under warranty which required sending the machine back at my own expense and being without it for three weeks. Now my DVD-RW drive won't open without using a paperclip to force eject and I have not gotten any response to my numerous emails. His phone defaults to a busy signal and his email frequently bounces.
Long story short, I've filed a complaint with BBB and intend to examine action through the FTC, ICC, etc., if he doesn't honor the warranty and make good.
I only went with this company because the guy is a member of a forum (www.dodgeforum.com) that I frequent. Others on the site recommended these machines and I didn't do my homework. I'm wiser for it now, and recommend that nobody do business with Michael's Computers.
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