good luck. and they've chosen the ripe time when spyware, adware, viruses, worms and all those goodies have began to get even stronger! cant wait to hear the next headline "Monroe back on Macs"

What do you expect when you let managers and political types make decisions instead of the actual techs?

As for them being cheaper, well the elementary school next to my house is still using ORIGINAL (slot-loading) iMacs and they're still working fine. Is it just me, or do PCs from 2000 seem to be a little less than usable these days?

I'm sure, when they find out they've been replacing computers more often after 5 years, this guy won't take the blame.

"'When we go to create new machines every year, there are tools out there that we can use to burn an image onto a server then onto 15 to 20 laptops at a time,' he said about the PC computers. 'In the Mac world, they don't have anything like that, they have to be reloaded individually every year.'"

Ignorance at its finest.

I wonder how the Apple Store reloads their software *every night* after closing... I'm sure they don't go to each computer individually and reload it...

I work a lot with Symantec Ghost (in a school environment), the software this bum probably uses, and it's nothing compared to the tools Apple has to reload the software remotely on Macs. In fact, it's a lot more expensive, too. As is licensing Microsoft software.

Boy, I wish I could fire off a friendly e-mail to the administrators who made that decision.

-Dan Pourhadi

Apple's Sharper-Image pricing of its proprietary system only appeals to Mac idolators.

The sad fact is that while this is a small, isolated incident, it is recieiving a lot of attention. This is in a time in which "crapware" and security issues are creating a world in which we are on the brink of a mass migration away from Windows.

...won't change the minds of the local "experts" in the school board. I guess they didn't have any Mac advocates among the upscale suburbanites there (right in my own neck of the woods, no less!)), and it's a shame that the administration is allowed to throw scarce funds into this money pit. I guess they'll soon learn when the first wave of viruses hit.

Ooops, too late already! Funny how those IT costs add up...

The article also doesn't say how OLD the Macs were, but it's pretty obvious that they didn't even look at any newer (OS X-based) machines. The fact that they don't know about re-imaging Macs from a XServe proves it. Worse yet, they used that "fact" as one of the main justifications for moving to PCs! Too bad.... score 1 for lemmings over logic!

-Ken P

From the end of the full article.

"I'd like to see a technology based requirement for graduation," Mr. Kaufman said. "I believe having computer skills is as important as math and spelling."

That's his reason. As long as MS dominates, MS=computers to the uninformed.

Wouldn't NetRestore have solved the imaging issues they had?

http://www.bombich.com/software/netrestore.html

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
Wouldn't NetRestore have solved the imaging issues they had?

http://www.bombich.com/software/netrestore.html

Shut up, SHUT UP!

You'll ruin everything!

The rave review from IT World (was that it?) reported on here recently mentioned the inability to easily clone drives as an issue.

Wonder what Bill Palmer would have to say about this.

Paging Mr. Palmer...

What I don't get is why so many schools make their PC decisions as if they were a Fortune 500 company, and not an educational institution. I thought the point of a school was to learn about as many things as possible, not limit people based on the preferences of a person who is obviously skilled with PCs and not Macs.

This school board member, Mr. Kaufman, seems to have consumed quite a bit of the Microsoft Kool-Aid if he believes that there is no imaging solution available for the Mac, and that Macs are "much more expensive to maintain." Seems like he's confusing purchase cost with the cost to keep the things running and virus-free.

And since we know that everyone in the world will be using a Windows PC, no matter what profession they are in, a school certainly shouldn't teach a mix of operating system, including Windows, UNIX and Mac OS. Heaven forbid the students are actually given a look at the total computing landscape they may encounter in the real world.

you know, benicia unified had the same brilliant idea to phase out the macs for cheaper Pieces o' Crap, and now half of them are broken 90% of the time, and the other half about 40%

my dad who teaches at the middle school rescued a couple of the all in one g3's from the phase out, and they still work perfectly as though they were brand new

so, its a brilliant idea to switch to these beautiful machines that cost $300 initially, but then decide that a month later they need to suck a $200 per month IT budget... but that initial cost was so great

back when it was a mac campus, there was one paid IT person, and some student assistants (who werent paid) maintaining them of their own volition. great call, wasnt it?

TRO

This just supports a survey that came out not too long ago saying that Mac users are just simply smarter than PC users, has a higher educational attainment, higher IQ than your average PC users. PC users are stupid.

Apple Stores reboots the display units with a clean image nightly.

They could buy cheesy Windows CPUs and run Cherry OS, "Mmmm, cherry cheese cake". Providing the school IT can get on the Cherry OS web site. I heard about them early this morning before the word was widespread and even then most of their pages wouldn't load. I am wondering if they are pulling a prank.

...thoughtful and respectful, please. Some of the comments here were excellent, and should be shared.

I lived in Monroe Township from 1992 until 1999. Both my sons attended Woodland School. Monroe was never a Mac "friendly" school system. I'm very surprised that Woodland still has any left now because what they had when we moved away was poorly maintained. Neither the middle school, Applegarth, nor the high school, Monroe HS, in Monroe that my sons attended had any Macs -- so I'm not surprised by this move at all at Woodland since the school system itself had a faulty mindset five years ago when I lived there.

Whenever the prospect of using Macs in the higher grades was presented, it was immediately shot down in district meetings because they needed to prepare the students for their adult life and everyone knows that adults don't use Macs.

As a teacher working with computers this is all to familiar to me. The reimaging thing is sad. Lets see, computers that work and don't need much maintenaince or a platform so messed up you buy it because it's easier to totally restore.
Let me tell you from personal experience. Windows in schools is a nightmare. I wouldn't have gone into this field if I knew how crappy windows is.
I started out on Macs (and still use them personally, and for anything "cool" in my schools). I hate teaching with PCs, hate it, when I know how much better the alternative could be. So many people calling the shots are pathetically ignorant.

http://www.monroe.k12.nj.us/wles/wl-email-form.htm

Email Victor Soriano the principal!!!!

For imaging, there is
1. Netinstall
2. Netrestore
3. RevRDist

Take your pick,

and if you would just like to polish up a system that may have been changed there's Radmind.

or if you would like to just build one system image and deploy it across as many machines as you wish, there's NetBoot.

Sounds like MS paid someone off. No way to image multiple Macs, my anie's fany!

of just how good they have it, I have seen this many times. A school spends next to nothing on IT support because they have Macs. Then believe that computers don't need support to keep running, so why not buy "cheaper" computers.
The fact that within 12mths those cheap computers are just boxes, turned off, sitting in the corner of the classroom, unused because either they don't work or the teacher can't work them.

Why? because they can't believe that "windows" doesn't keep working, just like the Macs do, without lots of onsite support.

M$ do something not quite on the up and up?
Who knew?

...that the school benefited from a nice donation of PCs from Microsoft. I am sure they were cut quite a deal on their licenses and pc-boxes. Unfortunately, those who usually run on the school boards don't come from an education background, and don't understand the difficulties that arise because most schools either have one IT person, or some teacher who does this on the side.

Oh well...There are many, many other schools out there who have some common sense. I hope.

I work for a school system that is 80% macintosh. We image 15 to 20 computers from an image stored on the server. To hear someone say that you have to do one mac at a time is a lot of bull. What it sounds to me is that 1) they got a "deal" from a pc company like dell, 2)no one really knew what they were doing, and 3) they probably lost their only mac person because they did not want to pay him fairly. One of the other local school systems close to where I am went the all pc route. They have had nothing but problems with their new dells.

My Mum faced a similar situation, although in her case, it was Acorns vs PCs (since this is the UK). Same sort of arguments.... "the children need to use the same machines they'll use when they start work" and yes I did write children there. People obviously believe that five year olds should be using Word and Excel. The final thing that ensured the switch was actually Acorn - they once owned the education market in the UK, but then managed to shoot themselves in the head (not just the foot).

I did ask to be let loose on the parents peddling the 'same computers' line. My response would have been something along the lines of "Well, how thick do you think your children are? Are they incapable of coping with more than one OS?" Unfortunately, I never got the chance.

Quote

RGE wrote:
My Mum faced a similar situation, although in her case, it was Acorns vs PCs (since this is the UK). Same sort of arguments.... "the children need to use the same machines they'll use when they start work" and yes I did write children there. People obviously believe that five year olds should be using Word and Excel.

lol

Yeah, I always love that reasoning. I've seen it before.

Like using one OS over another now is going to prepare you for what a computer will be in the year 2020.

Also, if it takes you 15 years to really learn an OS, perhaps it's not the best choice!

Quote

Yeah, I always love that reasoning. I've seen it before

It's the reasoning that cements MicroSoft's position. Get the children training to think that "Microsoft <=> computer" and nothing will ever dethrone them. Diversity is better in the long run - not all Windows, not all UNIX derivatives etc. Unfortunately, it costs a bit more upfront. Wintel is built on keeping that initial cost down.

On a related point though.... what's going to happen to the software industry in about forty year's time? People of my age learnt how to program on their BBCs/Spectrums/C64s/etc., copying simple programs out of books. It's much harder to do that sort of thing with a modern machine, of whatever flavour. Now, there will always be some who will want to find out How It Works, but not so many, given the barrier to entry.

I was very close with the IT guy at my school, being the head of the AV department. I had access and infulence with the board, and I convinced them to buy iBooks for the students as an alternative to Dells. I even paid for the diffrence out my studio's budget. The IT guy, Jim, was against it more than anyone else. When I asked him why, he simply said "Beacuse if we get Macs, I'm out of a job". Sad, huh?

At my workplace, we just got a bid for a support contract of our 20 PC's (Oh, and one Mac. Guess who snuck that in.).

It was itemized.

Just for virus/spyware remediation--that is, a monthly fee such that IF we had any virus problems, they would fix them for no additional charge, and that does NOT include any virus protection software, just the man-hours to cleam up the mess, the maintenance fee was $175 per month.

One hundred seventy five smackers a month.

rounding up (and excluding the Mac!), that's $9.00 per PC per month JUST to fix the viruses.

Where's that in Mr. Kauffman's calculations??

--A--

The application that InfoWorld's outsourcer used cannot image a Mac. The product they use, Altiris' Rapideploy, is a neat product for windows. They are working on OS X integration. I do not know to what extent they will implement it though.

So it is not fair to say that Mac's have problems with imaging only that Altris's RapidDeploy will not image a Mac nor will several other PC support tools.

I'll bet the IT budget for this institution goes through the roof in the next couple of years. Good for IT support growth, but not so good for students ...