It's really annoying to try to get my company's DHTML apps working in Safari, especially since Apple is so secretive about its plans and development. It would have been much better if Apple had adopted the Gecko rendering engine, like Mozilla and Firefox, instead of the little-used Konqueror engine.

I like the work Apple has done on integrating Safari with the OS, but it sure would have been nice if they'd used a better HTML engine. Maybe I'll just switch back to FireFox.

Camino!!

I'm not a programmer, so I am actually fishing for information. I understand there has been a long debate on whether Gecko or kHTML is better, and I've read a lot of posts stating that Konqueror is a smaller code package and much faster than Gecko.

Is this a battle that is still yet to be determined on which will be the dominant player, or is Gecko already the "standard"?

On my G4 iMac running Jaguar, Firefox 1.0 standard (not the independent G4-optimized version) is now my browser of choice. Aside from my strong preference for Ffx's appearance vs. Safari, it renders pages as fast or faster. Against the white(vs. brushed metal) window, text, graphics and especially photos appear more vivid and emotionally involving. I can't tell if it's the rendering. It's subtle.

In short for me Ffx beats Safari. I'm happy to have both. The competition will be good for both browsers I think.

the G5 version r0x hard on my dual 1.8 G5. About time we got some optimized builds.

Haven't tried the Mac version as I'm quite satisfied with Safari. The Windows verions is okay. Faster than IE but it is still a bit buggy on the renders. Tabbed browsing is always a plus. The interface looks as cartoonish as XP.

In short there is nothing compelling about it. It isn't driving me to try the Mac version. Seems like nothing added.

______"The interface looks as cartoonish as XP."

I just installed the Win version and I agree re: interface.

Do try the Mac version, though. To me it practically looks like a completely different interface, not "cartoonish" at all, just clean and lean. Rendering appears much more true on Mac, though that may be more due to flat-panel vs. CRT display (Dell).

There's an import function, but it gives no options, only a "next" button which just sits there.

A bit disappointing, because after all switching browsers would become trivial without all the password/bookmarks/preferences hassle.

So that's me back on Safari. Which I like a lot anyway.

On a Windows PC, it's a no-brainer, just use Firefox or Opera, on the mac it's not so clear cut. I don't have any real issues with Safari, so in the end I can't be bothered to switch if it's not made really really easy.

This bug has been around for YEARS and I was absolutely floored that it made it to Firefox.

Easy to reproduce:

1. Open a web browser window

2. Start a download (a large one). It should have a separate window.

3. Close the web browser window (not the download window)

4. Try to open a new web browser window. You can't. You cannot open a new window until the download is completed.

So, bottom line is that Firefox is Mozilla with no mail client or "extras" and has a new name with fancy icons.

It's infuriating that the Mozilla group has these bugs on record (I submitted them using their Bugzilla service) and they can't even cut through the BS to fix certain critical bugs like this.

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Anonymous wrote:
It's infuriating that the Mozilla group has these bugs on record (I submitted them using their Bugzilla service) and they can't even cut through the BS to fix certain critical bugs like this.

FYI, they are planning a 1.1 release which fixes numerous Mac-related issues and add makes some refinements so it feels more native. Obviously that doesn't help you now but it is something to look forward to.

>> Is this a battle that is still yet to be determined
>> on which will be the dominant player, or is Gecko
>> already the "standard"?

Well, they're *both* "standard." That's the beauty of complying with a third-party specification. So long as Firefox and Safari comply with the W3C specs, they can coexist peacefully. Both have very modern, very compliant rendering engines--Safari's a little ahead in some areas, Firefox in others.

For more info on why Apple chose KHTML, check this out:

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=104197092318639&w=2

They both seem to render about they the same.. but Camino has alot better skin and will use the keychain on a mac. I f only Camino would have a form fill-in feature like safari I would love it. Though Camino is my main broser..hope they keep up keep it up....

I have been using Firefox for some time on my Windows machines - but have been pure Safari on my Macs (primary workstations) since its inception.

Odd though - a site I work with regularly suddenly is breaking in css (I don't control the site - contribute content). Thus I am happily test driving Firefox on Panther as it renders the site properly.

Thanks goodness for tabbed browsing, pop-up blockers and cookie control...

We shall see.

Check out "Safari Bookmark Exporter" on Versiontracker.com
Works a treat.

I was sick of safari crawling to a stop with lots of tabs and switched back to Camino a few weeks back.

I've switched to Firefox from Safari for its extensions, but while download speed is fine, the UI can be very sluggish, compared with Safari, Omniweb, Camino or Opera, on my iBook 700 with 384MB RAM, especially with other programs running. I suspect its memory usage plays a part - it's consistently higher than non-Mozilla browswers. I also figure that adding extensions can slow it down - oh, well.

I really should add RAM, but it's much more expensive in my nook of the world. Sigh.

Hey don't knock it till you've tried it.. it's got tons of Safari rip-off features, plus it works with all websites..

Furthermore it's got some nice Spotlight ripoff features like the Find... feature.. it has a little pane that pops up and is pretty slick..

This and Safari is cool, until RSS in a couple months..

Really really nice.. and I happen to like the way it looks..

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Anonymous wrote:
Furthermore it's got some nice Spotlight ripoff features like the Find... feature.. it has a little pane that pops up and is pretty slick..

I wouldn't call type-ahead-find a Spotlight rip off. It's been around for quite a while.

it should look and feel more like a Mac OS X application rather than "running windows port programmes on mac".

On my 1GHz G4 iMac, Safari renders faster and clearer than Firefox. I think because Safari uses the Quartz rendering engine, text is more readable. Don't believe me? Try this test with both browsers. Find a page with small italics. Now in Firefox hit Command-minus a few times until the italics is no longer readable. Repeat in Safari with the same number of reductions and you will see that you can still read the text.

Firefox is my preferred browser for Windows, but Safari still outpaces Firefox on Mac (IMHO). Also, the Debug menu in Safari is unbeatable by any other browser. SnapBack is a great function that I wish Firefox would copy... I also like Safari's bookmark organizer.

On the plus sides for Firefox, I wish Safari had the FindAsYouType feature and I like the theme-able nature of Firefox.

They are both so great in M.H.O., that I struggled to decide which is my browser of choice. Finally, I decided to use Safari for my personal surfing and use F.F. for my personal web site information.

I only wish Safari had themes to apply, such as F.F. I understand Unsanity has several themes for Safari but there may be issues which might affect the system.

My FireFox theme is walnut and I love it.....

Not for rendering engines. That's the whole point of the W3C recommendations: use a browser that offers solid support for the recs, and forget about it.

At the moment, Gecko does a better job with CSS and the W3C DOM. Speed seems roughly even to me, though Firefox's UI makes it /feel/ a touch slower (it's XUL -- Mozilla's x-platform widget set -- rather than a native cocoa app).

Honestly, I'm a FF partisan mainly due to FF's extensions, bookmark handling and because I have to use a Windows machine at work and like sharing bookmarks &c. between the two machines.

That said, Safari is a great browser, and I don't mind using it at all. Ditto OmniWeb, which in some respects is well ahead of either Firefox or Safari. Camino...well, it seems a little awkward and ugly to me but that's entirely subjective.

Hi,
I downloaded forefox but am unable to install it...Quicktime opens and says it can't open this application...Do you have any advise on how I can install firefox...I have nothing that will open it on my mac..

Thanks
Sharon

I'm waiting for Intruder to say something weird like uninstall Quicktime.

Thanks
Sharon