Bill Gates Speaks on iPod Success, Refers to Mac as Past Hit
TMO at CES - Bill Gates Speaks on iPod Success, Refers to Mac as Past Hit
by , 4:15 PM EST, January 6th, 2005
LAS VEGAS, NV -- Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates discussed Apple in an interview with CNet News published early Thursday. In that interview, he acknowledged the success Apple is having with the iPod, and spoke about the differences in the way his company is approaching the market. He also, perhaps accidentally, spoke of the Mac as a has-been hit in the same company as the Apple II.
Music
CNet News reporter Michael Kanellos asked Mr. Gates if Microsoft was going to put effort into selling content. The comparison, though unspoken, was to Apple's major effort to make the iPod and the iTunes Music Store a big part of its business.
"We've said that having the music platform there is just part of the overall online relationship that we want to have with these customers, " said Mr. Gates. "The boundary between what's game playing, what's socialization and what's communication--you will have really broken down the barriers there."
Noting that "the Windows ecosystem provides variety," Mr. Gates contrasted this to Apple.
"Apple is doing things the way Apple does -- where it's the Apple hardware and the Apple store," he said in the interview. "That's great for them. We're doing it the Windows way, where you've got things like this Creative Zen Micro, which sold out this holiday season. This brings the photo capability in, and it's a very attractively priced device. So the variety story is an important one for us; it uses our rights management format and supports a subscription approach that we think can be a significant part of online music sales."
Creative's Zen Micro did sell out, but it's not likely to have touched the number of iPods sold during the December quarter. Estimates have ranged from 4 to 4.5 million units sold by Apple, but neither Apple nor the tracking services have yet released numbers for the quarter. Apple will most likely report iPod units sold when it announces its quarterly financial results on Wednesday, January 12th.
Has-been
Mr. Gates Freudian mention of the Mac as a past hit came during CNet News' follow up question about what Mr. Gates thinks of Apple's success with the iPod. In his answer, Mr. Gates acknowledged the success of Apple's digital media device, and described it as one of three hits the company has had.
"They had a hit with the Apple II, they had a hit with the Macintosh, and they have a hit with the iPod, so this is a company that's had three hits, and that's very impressive," he said in the interview. "There are a lot of companies that don't have three hits. And in the same way that Macintosh helped get people exposed to the graphical user interface, the iPod is doing a great job getting people to think about digital music.
The key to his comment is his choice of verbs: "had a hit with the Apple II," "had a hit with the Mac," "have a hit with the iPod" (emphasis added).
In the immortal words of Sesame Street, "one of these things just doesn't belong here," unless of course one considers the Mac a has-been. At the same time, perhaps it can be properly argues that the Mac is no longer a hit in that it no longer commands a large double digit share of the computer market.
With growing Mac sales and the supposed iPod Halo Effect, however, there are no clear answers to such a question. One's perspective on the issue is subjective, but Mr. Gates choice of wording was, at the very least, interesting.
Looking pragmatically at the situation, where Apple currently dominates the music player market, Mr. Gates said: "In the long run, there will be a lot of people making digital music players, and we think that there will be a very different market share with dozens and dozens of companies."
He brought his message home, by saying, "other than Apple, all those player makers are signing up to work inside the Windows PlaysForSure ecosystem."
The PlaysForSure marketing campaign is Microsoft's effort to brand the many, many competing music players on the market that don't work with the iTunes Music Store, but instead rely on Microsoft's Windows Media format.
There is much, much more on many other topics and issues in the full interview, which we recommend as an interesting read.
Observer Comments
Well I have had OS X fataly lock up on occastion.
One time it was at the login screen, I just typed in my password, and it stopped. I was forced to do a hard reboot.
Perhaps you will use this to say I am unintelligent, which I led myself into. But The fact remains that OS X is not without it's flaws, just like windows. However, more often than not, the extremists on this website make it out like you can't use a windows machine for 5 minutes without getting 600 viruses and 4 reboots. Which is just plan ignorant and wrong.
Different people have different experiences. But I know the developers in my office on Windows machines don't have crashes, and are never forced to reboot.
The tech support people on the other hand, have a multitude of problems with spy ware and the like.
QuoteGuest wrote:
The last time I had a system crash, it was on my quicksilver g4. In fact, it was a kernel panic during the 10.3.7 upgrade.
[...]
The last time I had my XP system crash... I can't remember. My XP workstation was logged in with about 20 apps for 23 days recently, until the a change to the Novell Zenworks forced me to reboot.
Last crash means absolutely nothing. One computer or the other will always have the last crash at any given point in time; that does not make it the inferior computer. And comparing one crash during an upgrade to one crash (or lack thereof) during routine usage says little if anything. Frequency of crashes is what matters.
Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:46 pm Subject: jonkroupa were have you been for the last 5 years.....
At my work place we have 30 Window XP running on Dell Dimensions and 10 Mac OS X on PowerMac G4's, we first got Mac’s back in 2002 up till then we were only using Windows 2000 / XP
We had to take everyone of our pc out of action for up to 2 hour at a time to update to SP2, update software like Norton AV 2005 and running Windows Update every 4 weeks,
One of our PC had to be totally wipe and reinstalled using Norton Ghost which take about a hour... we never have any problems with Mac OS X or Apple Hardware.I’m a Web Developer and got my own G5 last year. Microsoft has to get it act together and give us Longhorn before i think of using Windows again....
QuoteGuest wrote:
I cant build my own mac from scratch, cant swap stuff, cant dip down to an electronics store and buy a new drive for instance
I think we've found a winner for the Clueless Award.
It might be best to know at least something about the subject you're attempting to comment on.
Sheesh...
QuoteGuest wrote:
From what I understand Microsoft owns 18.2 million shares of VOTING common stock in Apple Computer.
Whew!
First, in 1997 Microsoft acquired $150 million of non-voting shares in AAPL. Second, Microsoft sold its stake in 2000.
It's get-a-clue day at MacObserver.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/microsoft/stories/1997/apple080797.htm
Quotedeasys wrote:QuoteGuest wrote:
I cant build my own mac from scratch, cant swap stuff, cant dip down to an electronics store and buy a new drive for instance
I think we've found a winner for the Clueless Award.
It might be best to know at least something about the subject you're attempting to comment on.
Sheesh...
lol...wow. Usually the clueless ones at LEAST know you can swap out hard drives.
This guy must be lying. Right? He wouldn't even know how to make a post at all if he was really this un-informed about computers. Right?
QuoteGuest wrote:
...most young people prefer windows boxes...Apple shareholders (paying 90 times earnings for a share!) will find out the hard way. Again.
Young people? Visit a campus and update your opinion.
As to the AAPL shareholders, I only wish we could all be so beleagured--AAPL has tripled in value over the last 12 months. MSFT has gone precisely nowhere...
Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:24 pm Subject: i still have an apple ][
GS model, and it still works perfectly 
there are some irreplaceable software titles there, like griffith observeratory, mean 18, summer games, gnarly golf and i could continue for a while
any time a computer lasts longer than the life of the user (the ][GS is about 22 years old, and i am 20) that is an impressive feat-- and that there are titles for it that are still the most modern in that field...
TRO
Quotejonkroupa wrote:
Windows doesn't crash any more often than OS X when used by intelligent people.
Like Bill Gates and his techs? Good one, jonkroupa!
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050106/D87EK9KG0.html
It seems to me a lot of PC users want to be able to build a computer from scratch, because with Windows, you HAVE to. I remember
Quotejpashin wrote:QuoteGuest wrote:
Oh by the way, love apple products, design is impeccable but there is no freedom with the products. I cant build my own mac from scratch, cant swap stuff, cant dip down to an electronics store and buy a new drive for instance,
--Bob
Think again! You may not be able to build a Mac in a beige box (praise the Lord), but you can sure slip down to the electronics store and buy a new drive. Macs use industry-standard RAM and ATA devices, and you generally don't even need to install drivers for Macs to support a wide range of drives and PCI/AGP-type expansion cards.
Although we sometimes have to wait a bit for video cards, our Macs support up to 8 monitors right out of the box, and replacing or adding video cards is as simple as snapping them into the slot!
Many Macs are also processor-upgradeable. Just a year ago I upgraded the processor in my Pismo Powerbook. How many Wintel laptops have user-upgradeable processors?
It seems to me that so many want to build PCs from scratch because you have to. Some time ago, I remember having a conversation on the web with a Gateway owner who said that he had to replace every component in his computer, but otherwise he had no problem with it. To which I replied, "Run that by me again?"
On the other hand, I've had my G4 Cube for something like 4 years, and the only things I've ever replaced were the mouse (let's face, Apple mice are crap) and the power adapter a couple of months ago. Oh, and I put in more memory, but that doesn't count as a replacement.
Not bad for a 4-year old computer!
Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:15 am Subject: re: Can't swap drives
QuoteSmall White Car wrote:Quotedeasys wrote:QuoteGuest wrote:
I cant build my own mac from scratch, cant swap stuff, cant dip down to an electronics store and buy a new drive for instance
I think we've found a winner for the Clueless Award.
It might be best to know at least something about the subject you're attempting to comment on.
Sheesh...
lol...wow. Usually the clueless ones at LEAST know you can swap out hard drives.
This guy must be lying. Right? He wouldn't even know how to make a post at all if he was really this un-informed about computers. Right?
It is my impression that the iMac G5 has one of the easiest to work on cases ever built. And the PowerMacs, since the 9600, had very easy access to the innards. I do admit that the LOWER end of the older imacs were harder to open up than the lower end of the PCs. However, Macs tend to use external expansion much more than PCs.
QuoteGuest wrote:QuoteGuest wrote:
Billy here goes on and on about apple's "three" hits and never mentions any of his own company's hits? how about crash happy windows?
The last time I had a system crash, it was on my quicksilver g4. In fact, it was a kernel panic during the 10.3.7 upgrade. It required hours to fix before I could run anything other than terminal. I wish I had those hours back to be productive.
The last time I had my XP system crash... I can't remember. My XP workstation was logged in with about 20 apps for 23 days recently, until the a change to the Novell Zenworks forced me to reboot.
-----
Who runs the IT behind your XP work station ?
If it's you then you need to bring that mind set to your Mac, pap attention to what you add or delete to your system before doing a update??
More like what are you doing with the Mac and not doing with the XP work station ??
Why should he care !!
He can own any system with what ever software and hardware for what ever!
He has more money that 60 gereratiions can spend and the brains to steal more than that !!
So why listen to the trash talk he spews out every time the orffice opens up !!
He say the samethings just different names added deleted where they fit !!
Baffle,dazzle sent software out buggy, ladden with user bugs. So someone else with have a work around and then add and charge for a update...
Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:46 pm Subject: Apple laptops ARE a BIG HIT, so is OSX!
I will admit that the iTunes music store can be classified as a success. The powermac and iBooks have never been Hits, you might think they are great products, but I think a hit should have an overwhelming response. Something along the lines of iPods constantly being out of stock, because so many people want them.[/quote]
SORRY, the ibook and Powerbooks ARE a hit, NO QUESTION. I work part-time in a coffee shop that has wireless access. 35-45% of the laptops people bring in are APPLE! I also know many cheap pc/laptops sit in someones corner and gather dust...too much trouble to do ANYTHING on them so they end up as big paperweights. I know so many people who use Apple. Someone should really do a comprehensive survey on the Apple USERBASE. In the home arena, I suspect it could be as high as 20%.
The ipod is more then a hit its a MEGAhit. Its hard to believe. But the numbers are in. IPOD RULES everyone so bad that it actually smacks of monopoly, hahaha. They can't touch the ipod, AT ALL! And that has them really really....REALLY pissed off.
JOIN US...OR DIE(crash).
Actually my many macs crash fairly often. But I really push them hard, (I write this in Panther installed on a 5-6 year old early model B&W G3 tower with a whopping 300Mhz).
QuoteBryan wrote:
Oh, Guest, I am wounded.
Wait, no I'm not, and I'll stand on my record and my writing any time.
If you wish to insult me (anonymously), you'll have to do far better than to tell me that you (anonymously) disagreeing with my interpretation of something invalidates everything else I write.
Bryan
Editor
TMO
Although I am not the same "Guest", I must comment on this to some extent.
You are a professional writer? Are not editorials taken very seriously, and are not editorials also "anonymous"? As an English major, this type of attitude is something I hope never to see in my future professional life.
As for Apple's iPod, it very much appears to be a fad. The iPod does not offer much more that other MP3 players do not. The iPod was not the first MP3 player to utilize a hard drive, nor was it the first device to use the type of menu system, and scroll-wheel controls that it now does. Granted, Apple strategically filed a patente on much of the technology it adapted from other companies, but the fragile casing of the iPod, and the click-wheel (or scroll wheel) is not as original as fans might like to believe.
After four years, one would think that Apple would include a user-replacable battery for the iPod. One must pay approximately $100 to Apple to have a new iPod sent to them, via the interestingly-named "battery replacement" program, or risk doing it themselves or through a third party, which can very likely end up breaking the device; iPods were not engineered to have their batteries replaced.
Apple's iPod has become a widely accepted cult phenomenon, or fad, and for the time being it remains popular. It is very likely that Apple will not maintain its present hold on the MP3 player market for long. Apple has continually made it known that it does not wish to play nicely with other, rival companies. An iPod user must purchase music from iTunes, or rip CDs that he has purchased.
Once everyone has an iPod, its flair will die down, and people may begin to wise up to this overpriced, sub-par MP3 player. Considering what Apple's iPod offers, the price of the iPod line of devices simply does not make sense.
Each iteration, or generation, of the iPod has professed improvements, but these 'improvements' have been unnecessary features. Battery life has not improved. One still cannot replace his battery safely, and even Apple does not actually replace ones iPod battery. There are new accessories, games, and applications for the iPod.
Apple is doing everything it can to make money off of this device, rather than improving upon it, or lowering its cost by much, if at all.
QuoteBryan wrote:
Oh, Guest, I am wounded.
Wait, no I'm not, and I'll stand on my record and my writing any time.
If you wish to insult me (anonymously), you'll have to do far better than to tell me that you (anonymously) disagreeing with my interpretation of something invalidates everything else I write.
Bryan
Editor
TMO
Although I am not the same "Guest", I must comment on this to some extent.
You are a professional writer? Are not editorials taken very seriously, and are not editorials also "anonymous"? As an English major, this type of attitude is something I hope never to see in my future professional life.
As for Apple's iPod, it very much appears to be a fad. The iPod does not offer much more that other MP3 players do not. The iPod was not the first MP3 player to utilize a hard drive, nor was it the first device to use the type of menu system, and scroll-wheel controls that it now does. Granted, Apple strategically filed a patente on much of the technology it adapted from other companies, but the fragile casing of the iPod, and the click-wheel (or scroll wheel) is not as original as fans might like to believe.
After four years, one would think that Apple would include a user-replacable battery for the iPod. One must pay approximately $100 to Apple to have a new iPod sent to them, via the interestingly-named "battery replacement" program, or risk doing it themselves or through a third party, which can very likely end up breaking the device; iPods were not engineered to have their batteries replaced.
Apple's iPod has become a widely accepted cult phenomenon, or fad, and for the time being it remains popular. It is very likely that Apple will not maintain its present hold on the MP3 player market for long. Apple has continually made it known that it does not wish to play nicely with other, rival companies. An iPod user must purchase music from iTunes, or rip CDs that he has purchased.
Once everyone has an iPod, its flair will die down, and people may begin to wise up to this overpriced, sub-par MP3 player. Considering what Apple's iPod offers, the price of the iPod line of devices simply does not make sense.
Each iteration, or generation, of the iPod has professed improvements, but these 'improvements' have been unnecessary features. Battery life has not improved. One still cannot replace his battery safely, and even Apple does not actually replace ones iPod battery. There are new accessories, games, and applications for the iPod.
Apple is doing everything it can to make money off of this device, rather than improving upon it, or lowering its cost by much, if at all.
QuoteFrom anecdotal evidence, the average replacement cycle for iPod is 3 years. For most guys, they would have bought a new iPod before the battery dies. In my case, my wife gave me a 20GBytes iPod for Christmas this year. The battery of my 1G 5GBytes iPod, though losing charges, still have not died.Anonymous wrote:
... iPods were not engineered to have their batteries replaced ... One still cannot replace his battery safely ...
QuoteBattery life has since improved from 8 hrs (1G) to 15 hrs (iPod photo).Anonymous wrote:
... Each iteration, or generation, of the iPod has professed improvements, but these 'improvements' have been unnecessary features. Battery life has not improved ...
QuoteApple is first and foremost a business entity. That said, iPod has dropped in price with each generation. 1G 5GBytes iPod with up to 8 hrs battery life costs $399 which can now buy a 4G iPod 40GBytes with up to 12 hrs battery life and a dock.Anonymous wrote:
... Apple is doing everything it can to make money off of this device, rather than improving upon it, or lowering its cost by much, if at all ...
QuoteAnonymous wrote:
An iPod user must purchase music from iTunes, or rip CDs that he has purchased.
Okay Mr. English-Major-Future-Writer, then you should know you need to get your facts straight. I have TONS! of illegally downloaded mp3s on my iPod (screw it, I ain't gonna lie). I did not purchase it, nor did I ever see it on CD, legit or otherwise. Also, even if I got it on the original CD, I didn't have to buy it; I routinely borrow my roomies CDs and rip them to my HD and then my iPod.
So in the end, your statement that I have quoted above is completely false.
Quotegreybeard wrote:
It is my impression that the iMac G5 has one of the easiest to work on cases ever built. And the PowerMacs, since the 9600, had very easy access to the innards. I do admit that the LOWER end of the older imacs were harder to open up than the lower end of the PCs. However, Macs tend to use external expansion much more than PCs.
The G5 is extremely easy to handle for an internal expansion - particularly for hard drives. Just plug in the two SATA cables, flip up the little plastic bracket and pow - a new hard drive. Don't even have to power down.
As for getting into the case - I must say that the G4 was a bit easier - just pull the handle, and the whole thing dropped down. However, you still needed to use screws to secure the drive in the bay.
Haven't added any RAM to the G5 yet - but it looks to be an easy job.
thank god apple introduced the mouse to the pc market back in the day.. i really like it for FPS, it's such a great input device!
(and yes, I like my 5 button mouse on my mac, please don't be under the mistaken belief that any macs ship with single button mice any longer)
It's not like bill could concede the widespread acceptance of the GUI to Apple, that would be openly admitting the scandal in 1984 when microsoft 'liked the idea of a gui so much' they made one of their own. (however as most know, apple got the idea from xerox or something, but home computers only got them when apple decided it was time)
Apple might be criticised for the newton (the ill fated PDA in the middle 90s) as spoofed in the simpsons (eat up martha) however most business people use pdas now, WITH handwriting recognition technology. It took a decade for this technology to come to fruition, a sign of a true innovator.
Sadly I use XP more now than my rock steady G4. Xp crashes like a bitch, and the spyware and virus threat is REAL with a PC. And jeebus, could real multitasking ever become a reality for windows? How long did it take for 64 bit processors to arrive for pcs? How long till vista is even a pale imitation of the excellence that is OSX?
The only thing XP has going for it is that sadly most people have to use it, and it's a cheap and nasty alternative. I only use XP at home for the few games which don't make it to the mac. (still a genuine concern for me as a gamer)
Quality costs money, it always has. There is no laptop on the market than can compete with a Macbook Pro, not many companies can boast the industrial design excellence apple has achieved (and continues to) the ipod, imac, iphone etc are all excellent designs waiting to happen.
Lastly, I'd watch a steve jobs keynote over bill any day
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