MacObserver promotes illegal activity, quote:

"If you break into Napster's (WMA-based) DRM, then you can get as much music as you want for $15 a month."

i think you can get napster for 14 days for FREE, can't you?

Looks like the new mobile unlimited subscription service has old Steveo worried if he has to resort to bottom feeding tactics. Like iTunes DRM can't be stripped. Napster is offering a 14 day free trial with with unlimited downloads of over 1,000,000 songs. Steve's got to keep the RDF up to convince iLemmings to pay more for lower quality music.

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Smith wrote:
MacObserver promotes illegal activity, quote:

"If you break into Napster's (WMA-based) DRM, then you can get as much music as you want for $15 a month.

TMO is not promoting illegal activity. They are merely stating a fact "you can...". They are not saying you should, nor are they recommending that you do.

Speaking of giving me a break, I wish TMO and all these other "DRM bad!" commie hippies would also give us a break. DRM is not a violation of your fair use rights; you can still make a backup (in fact, unlimited backups) of your purchased music, you can still play your music on a variety of devices (iPods, CD players, even other portable music players [albeit, with some extra effort]).

The anti-DRM hippies seem to forget the "fair" of "fair use." "Fair" does not mean "unlimited," nor does it mean a license to "share" your music with a billion anonymous "friends" on a peer-to-peer network.

Without DRM, iTunes Music store and other digital music store selling mainstream music would simply not exist. So quit complaining, realize that DRM is not actually limiting law abiding consumers in any significant way, relax, put on your headphones and actually enjoy a little music.

<quote>MacObserver promotes illegal activity, quote:

"If you break into Napster's (WMA-based) DRM, then you can get as much music as you want for $15 a month.</quote>

No, MacObserver is doing what any news source does; point out issues that should be knoiwn by the public. Unless MacObserver were to included the link to the Napster Hack site they haven't promoted illegal activity. It's a subtle difference and in fact some reputable news sources do get perilously close to the line at timers (e.g. the Valery Plume story published a few years ago in Novaks column).

TMO's point is the telling one. To hack 100 songs from ITMS you have to pay 100 dollars. Napter is an all you can eat buffet. The 2 week free trial will allow you to hack 252 80 minute CDs worth of songs if you are efficient. At 4 minutes per song that is around 5000 dollars worth of music.

Scuse me Jimothy, I'm a hippy who quite honestly doesn't mind buying songs from iTMS, so wash your mouth out would you? I support Apple's DRM, because it works well for me. I can't think of a situation where I'd find myself being unable to play the hippy music I've bought. Just keep your politics out of this, will you?

Yo RC:

The difference is, to hack an iTunes file, you have to buy it first. Not so with Napster.

Another important difference is this:

Apple could probably care less if the DRM is stripped from their downloads. We've already bought the song, and they don't make much money from it anyways. They care more about selling iPods. Removing the DRM does nothing to hurt Apple.

Whereas on the Napster side, removing the DRM seriously cripples their business model. They stand to lose, big time.

Here in Germany I got the news by "heise.de" and it included an link.
But even in the USA censorchip is not working. Just try Google with "Napster Winamp Output Stacker"
With the Janus DRM you loose all your Musik when You stop paying Your monthly fee. Therefore You have to strip away the DRM. With Apples Fair Play there is no reson to to it. But it is possible. Just use the program "AudioHijack".

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RealityCheck wrote:
Steve's got to keep the RDF up to convince iLemmings to pay more for lower quality music.

LOL. Look at who is generating an RDF. Albums purchased via iTMS cost less than a physical CD, so iTMS users aren't paying more. Numerous independent tests have shown that 128-bit AAC is equivalent to MP3 that uses higher bit rates, so iTMS isn't lower quality.

Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

iTunes - 1
Napster - 0

You consider telling the truth a "bottom feeding tactic", Reality Check? That makes sense. I'm sure it offends your sensibilities as a FUD-spreading liar.

You're right that Apple's DRM can be stripped, but only after a person legitimately buys the song they're stripping the DRM from. Apple still gets payed. The artists still get payed. The label still gets payed.

But by stripping the DRM from Napster To Go's music, not even Napster gets payed if a person joins with that 14 day free trial. Thieves have access to a million songs with unlimited downloads, and they can take whatever they want without spending a cent. And under Napster's payment system, labels and artists only get royalties each time their songs are played. That means even if a person pays $15 a month, if they're stripping the DRM then the only ones getting any money are Napster. Not the artists. Not the labels.

In otherwords, the difference between stripping Apple's DRM and stripping Napster To Go's DRM is this: stripping Napster To Go's DRM will result in it being shut down in short order by the recording industry.

By the way, the only thing Apple has to do to convince people to use the iTunes Music Store is to make sure it keeps being so much better than the competition that it takes up 70% of the market. Did I mention it takes up 70% of the market? You lose.

According to Napster's EULA, Napster keeps track of the music that you play and sends this information to Napster so that they can pay the record companies. If you will, this is "micro-payments" in action and I believe this is similar to the way radio stations work.

The problem is that if people do this, the record companies only get one micro-payment. Whereas if people do this with iTunes, the record companies get the same amount of money they would have if the person hadn't broken the DRM.

I'd say that, in deference to Reality Check's comment that Steve Jobs must be sweating, I think it's Gorog who's sweating. I'm sure he sold the idea to the record companies that they would make more money off of micro-payments than they would from regular sales. Now we see that, without much ingenuity, anyone can get around this. That's why Gorog sent the reply e-mail.

Yea I think TMO was just trying to point out that with Napster people can break the DRM before they need to purchase anything. There fore they get the music for nothing which defeats the purpose of the DRM all together. With iTunes you would have to pay first for the music before you could do anything with iTunes DRM. I'm thinking that is what Steve Jobs was trying to point out to the record companies as well.

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Jyakku wrote:
TMO's point is the telling one. To hack 100 songs from ITMS you have to pay 100 dollars. Napter is an all you can eat buffet. The 2 week free trial will allow you to hack 252 80 minute CDs worth of songs if you are efficient. At 4 minutes per song that is around 5000 dollars worth of music.

This reminds me of the font "collector" geeks of the '80s and '90s: Quantity rules over Quality. Sheeeesh.... life's too short to waste on something so stupid. You might as well break out the ol' cassette recorder and record songs off the radio if you're so so hot for hoarding tunes. Hint: The only "hack" needed is a patch cord from Radio Shack. Have fun...

-Ken P

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jimothy wrote:

Quote

Smith wrote:
MacObserver promotes illegal activity, quote:

"If you break into Napster's (WMA-based) DRM, then you can get as much music as you want for $15 a month.

TMO is not promoting illegal activity. They are merely stating a fact "you can...". They are not saying you should, nor are they recommending that you do.

Speaking of giving me a break, I wish TMO and all these other "DRM bad!" commie hippies would also give us a break. DRM is not a violation of your fair use rights; you can still make a backup (in fact, unlimited backups) of your purchased music, you can still play your music on a variety of devices (iPods, CD players, even other portable music players [albeit, with some extra effort]).

The anti-DRM hippies seem to forget the "fair" of "fair use." "Fair" does not mean "unlimited," nor does it mean a license to "share" your music with a billion anonymous "friends" on a peer-to-peer network.

Without DRM, iTunes Music store and other digital music store selling mainstream music would simply not exist. So quit complaining, realize that DRM is not actually limiting law abiding consumers in any significant way, relax, put on your headphones and actually enjoy a little music.

Agree.

We need a balance of fair use vs paying creatives their dues. IMHO: FairPlay strikes a good balance.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Looks like the new mobile unlimited subscription service has old Steveo worried if he has to resort to bottom feeding tactics. Like iTunes DRM can't be stripped. Napster is offering a 14 day free trial with with unlimited downloads of over 1,000,000 songs. Steve's got to keep the RDF up to convince iLemmings to pay more for lower quality music.

Haven't you got a girlfriend yet? Geesh, you need to come out of your parent’s basement for some air.

If you really want to back up your Napster tunes onto a medium of similar quality and longevity, why not just plug into the PC's headphone jack and record directly to 8-track?

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Anonymous wrote:
If you really want to back up your Napster tunes onto a medium of similar quality and longevity, why not just plug into the PC's headphone jack and record directly to 8-track?

This is really all the "hack" that people are talking about is. They didn't really "break" Napster's DRM...they just found a way to re-record it.

Granted, they found a way to do it without an external tape-deck, but it still means that you have to copy EVERY song you want to steal in real time.

It's not the fastest thing in the world. I said in an earlier thread, if you're going to steal music, there are easier ways then stealing it through Napster.

Damn, this Napster trick is too good to be true - I gotta get me some and rip off Napster, the record labels, and the musicians in one fell swoop. Wait, need a PC - damn.

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Bookman wrote:
Damn, this Napster trick is too good to be true - I gotta get me some and rip off Napster, the record labels, and the musicians in one fell swoop. Wait, need a PC - damn.

That's the best deterrent to crime I've heard yet!

Sure, to convert all the tracks of a one hour album into a CD takes you one hour. But listening to that one hour album also takes one hour.

So if I wanted to use Napster (which I don't) on a PC (which I don't own) and if I wanted to make sure that I can keep all the music after stopping the "subscription" (which I would), and if I didn't care whether it was legal or illegal (no comment), then I would use that technique on every single record that I am listening to.

By the way: Not much Napster can do about it. If you plan some serious piracy with no risk of being caught, you can always buy the cheapest Dell available, use it to download and play music, connect Dell and your Macintosh with an audio cable, and record on the Mac. And both Dell and Mac would be only too happy to play and convert music all through the night, seven days a week.

You don't need AudioHijack to strip away the DRM from iTMS music files. Just burn an Audio CD from iTunes.

Apple are currently looking for switchers - how about it?

C'mon, you know you want to. Do something 'off the wall'. Something your friends and family would be proud of.

Why else would be here? Surely not to spread FUD and attempt to conquer Steves RDF?.

Reality Check is just using this forum to rile you idiots.
Just ignore him and he will go away.

If people ignored Reality Check, then no one would correct his lies and FUD. And if no one did that, then somebody who doesn't know better might believe him, which is what he wants.

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Anonymous wrote:
If people ignored Reality Check, then no one would correct his lies and FUD. And if no one did that, then somebody who doesn't know better might believe him, which is what he wants.

Right. A normal troll is someone who will go away if ignored. That's why you ignore them. RC is not normal, in that ignoring him will not diminish his posts in the least.

I enjoy RC's presence, his comments continue to reassure me that leaving the "peecee" world was a wise choice.

I have several computers. I have one in the garadge, in the living room one in my bedroom and a laptop. I cannot play music downloaded on one machine on the rest of my machines. This annoys me to no end IF I buy a ten song cd for 10$ i can play it on any disc player in the world. but if I buy the same ten songs for the same money from napster or apple they try to limit what I can play them on. I have to burn them to disc to use them. I can't place them on my memory stick and I can't move them on my network. However appl's been hacked there is an Itune client that does not add the file protection. Files are free to be used the way you want. there is also a windows version. I guess I should get this. MY other complaint is why a $.99 i think they should be $.50. after all they are not giving me a disk or book and it doesn't take any space on a shelf theres no clerck to ring me up. so why does it cost the same or more than a cd thats better?????

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hateDRM wrote:
I cannot play music downloaded on one machine on the rest of my machines. This annoys me to no end IF I buy a ten song cd for 10$ i can play it on any disc player in the world. but if I buy the same ten songs for the same money from napster or apple they try to limit what I can play them on... MY other complaint is why a $.99 i think they should be $.50. after all they are not giving me a disk or book and it doesn't take any space on a shelf theres no clerck to ring me up...

I'm not very familiar with Napster's limitations, but I know iTunes. While the limitations seem annoying they are fairly generous: you can easily burn your own CD (for your car or ANY CD player in the world); you can play the tunes from any medium (hard disk, server, stick) on up to 5 computers at a time-- a computer at home, a computer at work, maybe a laptop. (And, honestly, if you're using more than 3 computers on a regular basis, you need to re-examine your life!)

As far as the cost goes, come on... throw the artist a bone! And while there's no packaging, per se, you still have to support the infrastructure (file servers, staff to support the system, etc.).

I agree with previous posts: DRMs are the only way we'll be able to get digital music conveniently and at a reasonable cost. Apple's definitely making some pennies off of the music but I think it's mostly to float the iPods.