Sorry, iDisciples, your AppleScript tells you different, but the move to Mac isn't as easy as plunking down $499 for the new headless mini Toaster.

Sorry, iDisciples, your AppleScript tells you different, but the move to Mac isn't as easy as plunking down $499 for the new headless mini Toaster.

"The bottom line is that the Mac is a great alternative for mainstream consumers doing mainstream tasks who are sick and tired of the Windows security crisis. But it isn't for everybody."

Not everybody knows nor cares that Windows isn't the be-all or clichй or computing solutions. We collectively do our bit to spread the word, hopefully in an unantagonistic way as possible, but often the seeds are spread on barren ground.

The 'don't care' is important. Plenty of people are perfectly happy with what they've got. They don't want any more. Their computing needs are few, or are complex enough that only XP will solve them. There's a reasonable chance that the soi-disant halo effect will improve the percentage of Apple users, but still the majority of computer users will continue to use *what we consider to be* an inferior product.

Apple's not going to go bust - hell, $US91/share is not to be sneezed at, whatever it may mean. The Mac may well take a large chunk of the market over the next few years. It may not. Realists like Mr. Mossberg are a moderating effect on the whole thing. Let's just hope that he doesn't get pissed off with Apple and continues to write from his current angle.

Mossberg may be right, but who said Apple is looking for a 90% share of the market. They just need a reasonable share (I would say 10~15%) to keep software developers and stock holders happy.

I don't buy the BMW argument, but there will be consequences if we start seeing TOO MANY macs.

and from my mac experience, going back to when apple had 10-15% market share, i cant think OF ANY consequences apple shared wit M$ problems with viruses or bad security. in fact as M$ has grown and as wells email communication, M$ problems have grown. even if apple had 25% of the 80,000+ viruses M$ has with only 10% of its market share, it still would be light years superior in user experience. market share and security are not a 1-1 ratio. as mac user with a hypothetical 8,000 viruses, that still would be 72,000 fewer to worry about.

obviously that should be 25,000 not 8, 000

make that 20,000

hic!

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Guest wrote:
make that 20,000

hic!

Doctors say 8 hours of sleep is a MINIMUM for a good nights rest. Some of us survive on 2. hehe

Peecees ain't the way to go either if you are:

1. Looking for an iPod (just like if you couldn't use your Zen on your mac).
2. Depending on stable software.
3. Wanting ease of use.
4. Trying to avoid viruses and spyware.

Or if you:

5. Are highly dependant on Mac OS X software (Final Cut)
6. Want a powerful and affordable dual workstation.
7. Want an inexpensive light fast and ultra-portable laptop (iBook)
8. Want an ultra-small desktop computer por under 500 bucks.
9. Would like a set-to-go digital creative machine (iLife 05).

Certailnly, peecees aren't for everyone either.

Walt always shoots straight and I think he is on the money once again here. Not that this is actually saying much. I could predict that a majority of Americans will eat at McDonalds sometime in the next year and be just as entitled to a crystal ball.

I am wondering if this might not have some reverse psychology effect though. How many users are gonna read that column and decide that none of the negative categories apply to them and so conclude that they should probably switch?

I just read the whole column and it sure seemed like somebody reminded Walt that a majority of his readers are windows users and he should be careful not to alienate them. I think this might have been a little CYA (cover your a**) action on his part.

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Guest wrote:

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Guest wrote:
make that 20,000

hic!

Doctors say 8 hours of sleep is a MINIMUM for a good nights rest. Some of us survive on 2. hehe

Actually this doctor will state that the recommended sleep is betwwen 5 and 8 hours per night and will depend on habits, caffeine or chocolate intake and mood amongst other things. What is right for one person will not be right for another. More than 8 hours sleep will often decrease the amount of effective REM sleep which is one of the reasons over sleeping can leave you feeling fatigued.

ermm.. how to keep this on topic.. I'd dispute the issue over Microsoft Outlook as Entourage has most of the functionality and has others to compensate and it plays nice with MS exchange these days.

"those on a tight budget -- you'll need more than just the Mac, likely a copy of Microsoft Office as well or maybe a multi-button mouse"

uh, you must also pay for Office for Windows! and switchers would already own a two-button mouse. what's he on about!?

He probably means that if they had a Windows pc already that they can transfer the license to their new PC.

"those who must remotely link up to a Windows network"

Strange, I do this every day... VPN, Remote Desktop, SSH, SMB/CIFS, What is this guy smoking.

My VPN connections are through a sonicwall with VPN Tracker Client and it works better than using the Sonicwall software client on windows.

Anybody who connects a Windows Server directly to the internet without a dedicated firewall is not thinking.

Some of his points are good but others are just off.

Hooray! It seems that RC has spawned: a new troll has arrived. Welcome Smith!

* those who are resistant to learning new ways of performing tasks

Like running spyware and virus programs?

* those on a tight budget -- you'll need more than just the Mac, likely a copy of Microsoft Office as well or maybe a multi-button mouse

You have to buy Office buy for a Windows box, as well. But i guess the $3000 price tag of a 2-button mouse *might* be prohibitive.

* those who rely on specialized business or financial software -- VirtualPC presents somewhat of a solution, but not an ideal one

Fine, fine, fine. Same can be said for video, audio and graphcis pros on the Mac. Next.

* those whose company's IT departments support home computers

A miniscule percentage of users.

* those who must remotely link up to a Windows network

This is just retarded. OSX does a better job of linking to a Windows network than a Windows machine.

* those who love Microsoft Outlook

All three of them. Does anybody really "love" Outlook? Please.

* those who play lots of games

Fair enough.

* those who rely heavily on financial software -- Microsoft Money doesn't exist, Mac Quicken is a little different, converting Quicken data is "a bear," and many specialized financial programs don't exist

Fair enough.

* those who want an ultra-light laptop -- the lightest Mac weighs 4.6 pounds

Oh, please...is this really the most important factor in buying a laptop. A .3lb. difference? "Analysts" just overthink these things.

* those who use a music player other than the iPod -- Napster can't run on the Mac, for example

You mean the 7% of the US who wishes they had an iPod instead of thei lame-ass brick they bought?

Which is:

- those who are cowards, terrified of change.


While similar, its different than merely being "resistant to learning new ways of performing tasks". I know one PC guy who's a big talker, but he's a coward that will never risk even the $500 for a mini, even though on his salary (6 digits) its a trivial expense for a toy. He's simply irrationally terrified that he might "miss something important" if he were to switch away from Windows. Go figure.


-hh

Calm down, dude. He didn't say *no one* should switch because of those things. He just said *IF* those things apply to you, you might not want to switch.

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dhp wrote:
Calm down, dude. He didn't say *no one* should switch because of those things. He just said *IF* those things apply to you, you might not want to switch.

In fact, I don't even think he was saying "you might not want to switch." It's more like "these are reasons people don't switch," in which case, don't kill the messenger.

Are all of these reasons true? No. Are they reasons people don't switch? You betcha.

cause its true.

Let's see, I'll pick an OS that requires me to buy computers and most of my applications from one vendor. I like monopoly pricing and quality.

Sorry iLemmings but the BMW analogy is BS. BMW doesn't require you to use only BMW roads and BMW gas. With Macs you're stuck the Mac OS and Apple applications. Apple's done of good job of forcing developers out by stealing their ideas and incorporating them into the Mac OS or freeware that once the developer is gone becomes payware. Not the kind of company I want.

I know a few people who will not accept that a computer works allright when they have not had to spend quite a bit of effort and time in getting it up and running. They simply want to puzzle things out and need to take a lot of hurdles before they can accept a result. PC's fit their way of doing things perfectly and they will never switch.........

Doesn't the comment about forcing other developers out of business and force people to use your products sound like the business model M$ invented and perfected? Except Apple products, wherever they may have originated, tend to be terrific and M$ products tend to be, well let's avoid obscenities and just say "not terrific."

This guy has no sense of business history at all! The first person to maintain that M$ is a business ethics angel!

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RealityCheck wrote:
I like monopoly pricing and quality.

you are talking about Windows here, right?

since when is a 2% market share evident of monopolistic practices

i think many of the intelligent people here realize that apple will not win out, and that in fact the computer will not even be a traditional computer in the next 10 years

we like apple computers because they simply work. whatever task, whatever time

there is a premium to pay for something to be reliable. in the 80's there was the option to go buy a Yugo for dirt cheap, or spend some more money and get something like an oldsmobile. here is a hint, the cheaper had a nasty habit of just not working

i think the people here would like to see apple hover right around a 10% market share-- enough users to warrant third party development without having to fear millions of pieces of crapware which infest it for merely visiting the wrong website

just like M$ is going to gain market share in the digital music market, so will apple in the home computer market because there is nowhere to go but up from the proverbial bottom

windows (and M$) can be compared to the village whore-- willing to get in bed with anyone for a price, but always coming out with another disease

TRO

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kwameaj wrote:
Mossberg may be right, but who said Apple is looking for a 90% share of the market. They just need a reasonable share (I would say 10~15%) to keep software developers and stock holders happy.

I don't buy the BMW argument, but there will be consequences if we start seeing TOO MANY macs.

Good points. 10-15% is about the max Apple could garner if it continues on a creative/consumer/digital lifestyle focus.

IMHO: More than 80% who buy PCs don't read Wall Street Journal or similar financial news or technical news. They based their decisions on what they see are currently used or friends'/relatives'/colleagues' recommendations.

Apple has yet to launch any marketing effort at this 80%.

Btw, such guys are also not likely to be owning an iPod too.

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RealityCheck wrote:

Sorry iLemmings but the BMW analogy is BS. BMW doesn't require you to use only BMW roads and BMW gas.

Bad analogy.

Apple applications = Engine Parts...which ARE put in by BMW.

Roads and gas would be, I don't know, keyboards and electricity, or something, and you're free to get those on your own.

Years ago, before cars became computerized, guys always bought old junker cars, jalopies. They spent all their free time fixing them, tearing them down and rebuilding them, and repairing them. I believe that is the appeal of the pc & Windows to the less mature crowd. They're the new 'jalopies'. However, when one matures and other, more important priorities require one's time, then it's time for something that just works. Like a Mac!

That's my theory, anyway. I also like the one about 'getting in bed with just anyone, but coming out with a different disease'. So glad I'm not a pc user!

When it comes to BS your the expert

The Macintosh doesn't require you to use Apple internet, TXT and HTML files, blank media, etcetera, so the BMW analogy is NOT BS. Sure you need to use some Apple hardware for repairs, but try fitting a Yugo transmission onto a BMW engine.

I am not STUCK using OSX and Apple applications, no more than a Windows user is STUCK using MicroSoft stuff. I can use UNIX if I want to as well as 3rd party software that runs under OSX, hell I even have Virtual PC installed and use it occasionally.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Sorry iLemmings but the BMW analogy is BS. BMW doesn't require you to use only BMW roads and BMW gas. With Macs you're stuck the Mac OS and Apple applications. Apple's done of good job of forcing developers out by stealing their ideas and incorporating them into the Mac OS or freeware that once the developer is gone becomes payware. Not the kind of company I want.

Hah. Reality Check must be cracking under the strain of having his disinformation regularly debunked. Taking the bad aspects of the company you're trying to defend and accusing the competition of them is a classic move, and usually one them comes when you're out of ideas.

Microsoft is a monopoly convicted of illegal practices. So what does he do? Call Apple a monopoly.

Microsoft is incapable of innovation. Their ideas are either stolen or taken from truly innovative software that they buy up and soon turn into unintuitive bloatware. So what does he do? Accuse Apple of the same.

He's trying to smear Apple by calling them Microsoft.

Anyway, let me debunk the latest disinformation. Nobody's forced to buy their Macintosh from Apple. There are plenty of independant retailers that sell Macs. Nobody has to buy software from Apple, either, and when you buy a Mac, you aren't stuck with OSX and Apple applications. There are well over seventeed thousand applications for OSX, and not even one thousand of them are made by Apple. Also, Linux can be installed on a Mac in place of OSX. Your FUD fails. Try again.

I've always agreed with Steve Jobs' assertion that Apple makes the whole widget--and the Mac continues to prove it to me. It's absolutely essential that a company like Apple exist to show everyone else how a computing experience can be--leading the way. Control over the hardware and the OS and the kind of advantages that brings are no longer an open option to MS and Windows (thanks to their monopoly). Apple's small market share (even grown to a more healthy level) ensures that they can do this beyond all other players in the business. And, how they've done this in the consumer space in the past 5 years is astounding--just ask Bill Joy about iLife.

As someone who has to use a PC at the office, and works with Macs on a side business with a few others who do it full time, we know where we'd rather spend our computing time. RC can hug his XP box all he wants. The fact that he posts here should tell you something about what he truly envies about iLemmings.

Whenever you see the words "iLemming" or "iDisciple" in a post, it is a sure indication of a troll. Im surprised people even respond to them. I think I remember people like them.. they were the big bully in school.. you know the one's that resorted to name calling and if that didn't work then they'd beat you up because they liked the controversy and attention.

A family friend doesn't have the money to update computers very often. She was on a ODS PC for years (I fixed her Y2K problem by changing the system date to 1989) and upgraded when her sister sent her a replaced PC - now she is on 95. She's also on a dial up internet connection and is rather happy that she can do email - which is about all she can do. If she ends up having to buy a computer it'll probably be a Mac mini. While she "could" order one now she would rather set the money aside for vacations, etc.

RC is still mentally out to lunch. Except for buying iWork to give it a try everything I have bought for our Macs are non-Apple apps. Look around RC as there are a lot of OS X apps available from other companies/developers. Around 14,000 if I recall.

This statment sums up Reality Check...

Those who are resistant to learning new ways of performing tasks

iLemmings?

I don't think so. My mouse (a MX1000) is made by Logitech (and when the batteries need recharging, I have a cheap 2-button GE mouse I just plug in), my joystick from Microsoft. My webcam is made by Sony, my digital camera by Kodak. My printer by Lexmark, the cable connecting it to my computer by Belkin. My graphics card by ATI while the monitor that connects to it by Hitachi, and my speakers come from Boston Acoustics. My hard drive by Maxtor, and I'm not talking the one that came pre-installed (which is currently residing in an old Gateway and is working quite well), and my optical drive is from Pioneer, which I also installed myself. I like my Apple Pro Keyboard, but I could use my Gameshark Sharkboard (a keyboard designed for use on Sony's PS2) in a pinch. And I use software from countless companies every day. Companies you have heard of (e.g. Adobe, Quicken, Corel), and some you haven't (e.g. Guild Software, Splasm Software).

Doesn't sound like I'm that locked into one vendor, now does it?

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Smith wrote:
Sorry, iDisciples, your AppleScript tells you different, but the move to Mac isn't as easy as plunking down $499 for the new headless mini Toaster.

My AppleScript...my easy-to-use scripting language??

As long as you feed the trolls, they'll come back...

These aren't trolls. They don't care about getting a rise out of anyone. They're here because they want to scare curious Windows users away from Apple.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Let's see, I'll pick an OS that requires me to buy computers and most of my applications from one vendor.

Steve Jobs recently stated that there are over 10,000 native Mac OS X applications, of that less than 20 are offered by Apple. Even your beloved Microsoft makes several applications for the Mac. Why would they do this if Apple forced it's users to use only Apple software?

Don't blame Apple because you're too stupid to figure out how to install software. I'm sorry to hear that you can't work your Mac, but the problem is definitely at your end, everyone else with one can figure it out.

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I like monopoly pricing and quality.

No $#!%. That's why you like Windows so much.

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Sorry iLemmings but the BMW analogy is BS. BMW doesn't require you to use only BMW roads and BMW gas. With Macs you're stuck the Mac OS and Apple applications.

*yawn*

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Apple's done of good job of forcing developers out by stealing their ideas and incorporating them into the Mac OS

What exactly are you talking about? It's hard to refute points when you allude to things instead of talking in specifics.

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or freeware that once the developer is gone becomes payware.

That doesn't even make sense, why did you waste time writing that?

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Not the kind of company I want.

Then why are you constantly trolling message boards about their products?
You're obviously jealous. Is it because the rest of us Mac users that can figure out how to install 3rd party software are smarter than you? or because we have enough money and commonsense not to buy the cheapest thing on the shelf?

it couldn't be better to switch to Mac, REALLY!!

Quote: "Apple's done of good job of forcing developers out by stealing their ideas and incorporating them into the Mac OS (sic)" ... "or freeware that once the developer is gone becomes payware."

Yeah, um... I know it may be difficult to comprehend this, Mr. Afraid-of-the-Facts, but you've just described Microsoft.

You meant Microsoft, right?

No?

Ah well, I suppose if we didn't give these idiots the encouragement of our attention, we wouldn't have them around to laugh at.

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Anonymous wrote:
Quote: "Apple's done of good job of forcing developers out by stealing their ideas and incorporating them into the Mac OS (sic)" ... "or freeware that once the developer is gone becomes payware."

Yeah, um... I know it may be difficult to comprehend this, Mr. Afraid-of-the-Facts, but you've just described Microsoft.

You meant Microsoft, right?

No?

Ah well, I suppose if we didn't give these idiots the encouragement of our attention, we wouldn't have them around to laugh at.

I'm sorry for posting these comments. Guests can't delete posts. Apple has stolen a lot of ideas.

So, that would mean Microsoft steals most of its ideas from a thief.

Mossberg means well but he doesnt know what hes talking about really. With this article hes just trying to 'please all parties'.. the reasons he gives for sticking with PC are all voided in the long run IMO, for example, you will still save money buying Macs, even if you do have to buy a version of MS office. Anyway most people will be fine using Appleworks - which comes free.

Mossberg isn't trying to tell people to stick with the PC, he's giving fair consideration to specialized reasons why certain PC users might not want to switch. Actually, I'm encouraged that so many of his reasons ARE so specialized.

Except the real biggie: resistance to new ways of doing things. I posted it at Mac 360, I'll post it here (copy and paste it, even):

Entirely too many people suffer from the "steps, not concepts" way of dealing with their computers. For them, computing is an intimidating and unnatural wizardry, in which a certain sequence of very specific actions is the magic spell that will get the computer to do a thing.

I think they first adopt the iron-clad assumption that "Computing is for tech-y people, not me. It is hard, and I don't understand it." Then they go to every length possible by refusing to learn anything about the computer whenever possible.

These are the people who, if presented with a Mac, would wonder in panic "Where is the Start menu?!?" instead of asking themselves, "What's Apple using as a program launcher?"

And too many tech-types (like people likely to post comments at a Mac-centric website!) SEVERELY underestimate what a majority proportion of computer users are like this. Ask anyone who does tech support for a living.

--rueyeet, "switcher with a vengance"

I for one, not only do not mind being called an "iLemming", I'd proudly wear a t-shirt proclaming that fact to the world.
Six months ago, the mere mention that I use a Mac at some forums I visit brought forth posts that would make RC sound like a potential switcher. Now, semi-serious discussions take place (small steps).