Kinda sad that after all this time we're getting a 0.2GHz speed bump. Ah well. At least I'll be able to get a dual 2GHz for the price of a dual 1.8 soon. And yes I realize there are other changes too like more memory, better graphics card, etc. But nothing amazing or exciting. Well except for the fact that I'll FINALLY be able to order one now that the updates will be out. I guess THAT is exciting!

gawd I'll bet Jobs wishes he had just kept his big yapper shut about 3 ghz within a year. He poisoned the well so that any speed increase will be measured against his statement.

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Bookman wrote:
gawd I'll bet Jobs wishes he had just kept his big yapper shut about 3 ghz within a year. He poisoned the well so that any speed increase will be measured against his statement.

Agreed. A dual 2.7 is an amazing machine (heck, the dual 2.5 is STILL amazing) but will be under-rated and maligned because it isn't a 3.0 ghz...pity. Anyone NOT pleased with theirs can feel free to ship it to me.

Does anyone know what the deal with the cooling system is? It's on the current 2.5 machine, right? I know Apple never liked having to use it.

Do we know if any of these new machines are supposed to need it or not? I don't think I've heard anywhere.

that's at least ahead of the pack in a way, if true, to be able to due true 16X burning on dual-layer media (probably media will have to be bought from apple initially)

interesting-- does anyone know if amazon has any more pre orders available for other macs (possibly to be released friday alongside a certain operating system)

also, will apple activate their legal team for releasing specs early to the public (i know TS had shown these specs before)

TRO

I don't think the current 2.5's are 970FX right? All the new Powermacs will be and those chips run alot cooler. So I don't think the liquid cooling will be needed anymore. Of course only time will tell.

From the pics on the Amazon page for the dual 2.7, provided they're not older stock photos, I do not see evidence of liguid cooling. Could this mean dual-cores? I do not have a clue.

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Brutno wrote:
From the pics on the Amazon page for the dual 2.7...I do not see evidence of liquid cooling.

What kind of evidence were you hoping for?

Jobs made the 3 ghz "promise" based on what IBM told him... Blame IBM...

I'm still holding out for a 3.0 : )

Eh, I really don't care about the chip speed so much. I want to see re-designed cases with more space for extra hard drives and different kinds of PCI.

THOSE are the kinds of changes that will get people's attention. I'm glad for these slight upgrades...I'll probably buy one...but they're not a big deal.

What is it with Amazon?

The rumors seem pretty solid at this point. All 3 systems will be dual chip, single core 970FX. They will be 2.0, 2.3 and 2.7. Judging by the Amazon page, the prices will remain unchanged for each "level".

I was praying for dual-dual core with PCI-E. If this is it for the year for PM's I think it's a disgrace. The processors are out of Apples control, but come on, give us the freaking goods for gods sake. How about a better case with more drive bays, or a video card that represents??? This is just lame, like no thought was put into it. I dont get it.

Amazon also has a picture of the insides - look like the liquid cooling is gone

Amazon also has a picture of the insides - looks like the liquid cooling is gone - click on powermac picture and select the other view

does dual core really exist?

it's funny how people complain about the speed now. I can remember when Apple was struggling just to get 2 GHz processors in the machines, now it's bad because they're not to 3.0.

You have to remember, these are DUAL machines. There is no other manufacturer that features dual processors like Apple does. It used to be duals were needed to help add up make up for megahurtz, but now duals are standard equipment because they can handle intense processing that one chip can't. I think that's a great feature that helps make the powermac line stand out.

It does kind of stink they aren't to 3.0 ghz yet. But in all honesty, are you going to notice that speed difference when opening Safari? For professionals, working day in and day out on high end graphics, they might notice the 5 second rendering difference. Honestly though, a 2.7 loaded with RAM and a good system bus is going to fly past anything on the PC side right now.

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Biff wrote:
I don't think the current 2.5's are 970FX right? All the new Powermacs will be and those chips run alot cooler. So I don't think the liquid cooling will be needed anymore. Of course only time will tell.

I have heard several comments since the 2.5 GHz Pmac came out that were down on the whole liquid cooling thing. Why is that? Is there some problem with it? I owuld think it would be quieter than fans. (just a guess). And more efficient. But what are the drawbacks?

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allanimal wrote:

I have heard several comments since the 2.5 GHz Pmac came out that were down on the whole liquid cooling thing. Why is that? Is there some problem with it? I owuld think it would be quieter than fans. (just a guess). And more efficient. But what are the drawbacks?

Besides the fact that it costs more to make (I'm sure) I think there was a lot of concern that a pipe could spring a leak and ruin the entire computer.

Whether or not Apple could be held liable for this could be debated, but it would surely be bad publicity. A lot of computer defects can simply be fixed by replacing the part. If your entire computer gets fried, however, it may be a bit bigger problem.

I don't think that ever happened, but it's a problem they'd prefer to avoid altogether, I bet.

As for Amazon: Oops. I guess we'll know whether the product really exists within a day or so.

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Bookman wrote:
gawd I'll bet Jobs wishes he had just kept his big yapper shut about 3 ghz within a year. He poisoned the well so that any speed increase will be measured against his statement.

Ah, he was just a bit too trusting of the IBM folks who gave him those apparently-way-too-optimistic assurances. I doubt Jobs will ever make that mistake again.

I'm not exactly thrilled by a 200 MHz boost after all this time between updates either, but given AMD's and Intel's troubles ramping up clock speed (AMD hasn't crossed 3.0 GHz yet either, AFAIK), it's not a terribly big thing, just the 90nm wall/end of Moore's Law. Even Intel's only managed a 200MHz boost (to 3.8GHz). On the bright side, the FSB's almost certainly been boosted to 1.35GHz. Toss in a $2799 or lower price tag, nicer onboard equipment, etc. and it'll be a nice, perfectly performance-competitive high-end system.

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allanimal wrote:
I have heard several comments since the 2.5 GHz Pmac came out that were down on the whole liquid cooling thing. Why is that? Is there some problem with it? I owuld think it would be quieter than fans. (just a guess). And more efficient. But what are the drawbacks?

Well as already stated they are more expensive. And more complex. More likey to break, leak, etc. Also remember that the liquid cooling has fans too! The liquid just helps to get the heat off the chips and distributed to the radiators faster. But then fans are still needed to cool the radiators. Man those 2.5GHz chips be hot! The new computers will be running the 970FX chips which run MUCH cooler. So with that much less heat to disperse, not only will a liquid cooling system no longer be needed, but the fans being used to cool them might even be able to run quieter than the fans needed to cool the radiator on the current 2.5GHz monters. And since the 970FX uses alot less power, your electric bill will be lower! Awe yeah!

The pictures and the page is still there, but all the info has been removed.

They have to keep up the illusion of a "mistake" and "accidentally" letting the info "leak". Hehe. At least we know exactly what to expect tomorrow. I wonder when the new iMacs and eMacs will be announced. Tiger ships Friday and the current models ship with 256MB RAM! Maybe Apple will unveil a new memory upgrade promotion on iMacs and eMacs.

The clock speed increase is ... disappointing.

However, if it's two dual-core processors, that might make up for it a bit!!

Perhaps Mr. Jobs will make more modest claims in the future.

At this point, IBM should have the bugs out of its 90 nm manufacturing process... and this is the chip that was supposed to reach 3 GHz....

It is still possible that intel will slow down and IBM will ramp up clock rates, and 3 GHz is a psychologically significant barrier (especially with intel chips at 3.8 GHz, and low-end celeron, etc. chips around 2.7 GHz - slow processor, but a fast clock rate!) - it would be nice to see the PPC architecture move past it....

Maybe that Cell processor in a Mac isn't such a bad idea after all

Amazon has taken the specs off the page. It now says, "Product Coming Soon" and "Availability: This item is currently not available."

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Guest wrote:
I was praying for dual-dual core with PCI-E. If this is it for the year for PM's I think it's a disgrace. The processors are out of Apples control, but come on, give us the freaking goods for gods sake. How about a better case with more drive bays, or a video card that represents??? This is just lame, like no thought was put into it. I dont get it.

apple will milk the powerMac for what its worth for the rest of this year, with their high-def final cut pro studio offerings... for artists, musicians, designers, video people as well, they'll offer the powerMac for as high a profit margin as they can push it... a dual 2.7ghz is going to be really fast for your usual workflow... i mean if you're a hardcore professional studio then hell you may be on Discreet or Avid but if not a PowerMac workflow sounds good

however towards the end of the year, as someone has suggested, some sort of bastard child from a iMac + PowerMac marriage may emerge for macworld sf 2006...

today i thumbed through a PC magazine, and for people dropping $2000-$3000 on a tower, the specs on the PowerMac just don't have that appeal, sure, it may be dual G5, but ram, GPU, hard disk, and a big heavy case won't cut it for a majority of this crowd.

the powerMac g5 may go down as a "cube-like" blunder but of course also a great testament to how apple has managed to make the most of it and avoid most of the mistakes with the cube

i'm looking at powerbook offerings at wwdc 2005 and a new imac/powermac hybrid macworld sf 2006

i've used a single 1.8ghz powermac g5 though last year, and it absolutely demolished my dual-1.25ghz g4 when runnning reason 2.5

Tiger on G5 will be really sweet, at the end of the day, the iMac g5 will see most of this benefit because of it's more affordable and sleek form factor

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Small White Car wrote:

THOSE are the kinds of changes that will get people's attention. I'm glad for these slight upgrades...I'll probably buy one...but they're not a big deal.

Of course you'll buy anything Apple, you're a Mac slave.

Oh boy oh boy! It's Wednesday! Come on, new product announcements!

Sorry. I've been waiting a long time to get a Powermac.