Henrico County, Va. High Schools Drop Apple For Dell
by , 2:40 PM EDT, April 29th, 2005
Apple scored a major win in 2001 when it signed a four-year deal to provide an iBook for every high school student in Henrico County, Va., but Dell swooped in and snatched away that business when it came up for renewal this year. The switch was announced on Thursday night when the Henrico County School Board unanimously voted to award the new contract to Dell.
The original contract was worth US$24.2 million and consisted of 23,000 iBooks while the new one is valued at $17.87 million and will provide 15,800 Dell laptops. According to an article in The Henrico Citizen, Dell outbid Apple by approximately $4 million, selling the laptops to the school system for $1,130.92 each. Apple, however, still has a four-year contract with Henrico County for the county's middle school students; that deal will expire in June 2006.
Henrico Citizen editor Tom Lappas attended a Friday morning press conference with school superintendent Fred Morton, who said that "a number of variables weighed into the switch -- it was not just one thing." Mr. Morton also told reporters that Henrico has an offer from Dell to sign a four-year contract to provide laptops to middle school students for $20 less apiece than the cost of the high school computers.
Mr. Lappas also spoke with the school system's Director of Technology, Lloyd Brown, who said that Apple and Dell were finalists that ran "neck-and-neck" to the finish line. Mr. Lappas wrote that Mr. Brown told him that "Apple computers typically are more expensive than Dells anyway," an erroneous line of thought that doesn't take into account long-term support costs and other factors.
Mr. Morton told Mr. Lappas that "the school system's existing computer network will be able to handle the switch from Apple to Dell without any significant adjustments."
In a year or so they will realize why Dell undercut Apple on price. I expect a MUCH higher rate of broken, defective, trashed, infected laptops and they will spend far more repairing them, (or trying to), than the school expected to save.
Wait till next year, when the laptops need to be reformatted for the twenty billionth time due to Spyware/Viruss. As far as I'm concerned, so long suckers!
Wait till next year, when the laptops need to be reformatted for the twenty billionth time due to Spyware/Viruss. As far as I'm concerned, so long suckers!
Having to replace the logic boards multiple times on the same iBooks taught students and teachers a lesson that Apple's claims of superior quality was reality distortion.
RealityCheck wrote: Having to replace the logic boards multiple times on the same iBooks taught students and teachers a lesson that Apple's claims of superior quality was reality distortion.
Ok, I know you're all going to hate more for this, but I believe in being an honorable person who does the right thing. That means telling the truth, no matter how painful it is. So here goes:
THIS is actually a pretty funny post.
There, I said it. I'm not proud of it, but I have to be fair. And RC, please don't post anything that makes me praise you again. I did this because I had to, but I didn't enjoy it.
the current 14" iBook G4 runs at a price tag of $1199 (education discount)
the dells ate therefore $70 cheaper per unit
my guess is that apple could have easily beat that price-- but it was more windoze worshipping bureaucrats who are preparing the kids for the future which is the windoze operating system
news flash-- windoze is going to look completely different in about a year and a half to two years (it is going to look even more like OS X)
"Apple computers typically are more expensive than Dells anyway."
The sad thing is that Dell is charging the school district approximately $100 MORE per laptop than Apple did in the original deal, and $250 more than Apple in this new deal. You'd at least thing think that our educators would be able to do the math themselves and figure that out.
The good news is, the Cobb County, Georgia school district approved the Apple laptop deal yesterday. Let's just hope the students their don't use them to research evil-ution! Using a Mac can be dangerous; it can encourage free thinking, for God's sake!
randompro42 wrote: my guess is that apple could have easily beat that price-- but it was more windoze worshipping bureaucrats who are preparing the kids for the future which is the windoze operating system
Apple DID beat that offer, by $4 million, or $253 per laptop, according to the article, and they STILL chose Dell. So I think you're exactly right abound the administrators worshipping at the Gates of Dell.
As the joke goes, if you want to prepare students for the Windows of tomorrow, let 'em use the Macs of today.
(To be honest, I think that laptops for students, regardless of platform, is potentially a waste of money. Music, arts, and athletic programs are getting cut, and they are spending $1,000+ on computers that will likely spend a lot of their time surfing the web and downloading music. The computers seem more likely to be a distraction than a learning tool. The only justification I could see for these expenditures is if they save more money on books [by using eBooks, etc.] than they do on the laptops, thereby freeing up funds for programs that would otherwise be cut.)
We know Apple does it better and deserves to make a profit. The district will save some money up front which can be quantified. However, the frustration factor experienced by teachers at school and home,where much of their work is performed,will not be revealed to the taxpayers. They got a good price not a good value. Tiger with it's Universal Access features could allow the district to meet government requirements without third party apps. Parental restrictions are built in.
I do wish Steve Jobs made an appearance to support field sales representatives in such high profile bids. RDF is immeasureable!
Dell has an advantage over other vendors in their business model that is explained in a ZDNET video called "Why Dell is a Bank." (See http://news.zdnet.com/2036-2_22-5604972.html). In essence, Dell takes payment for computers (money into the bank), then just-in-time orders the components, builds the computers and ships them. The vendors of the components get paid net 30, 60, or 90 days later while the money is sitting in the bank earning interest. They make a ton of money on the float.
Obviously, they aren't going to make $4 million in float on a $17 million contract, though. They have to be going after this as a loss-leader to try to slow Apple's resurgance in the ed market, particularly in the portable arena. That's going to be the area of most dramatic growth in the future.
So Dell may be making money on the float of billing a buyer and ordering JIT parts from a supplier they don't pay for 60 days, but with interest rates so low, they are making fractions of pennies. Sure that adds up, but not compared to Dells actual profits. Even in slim margin PC manufacturing, Dell is making plenty and it isn't off 60 days interest.
As to choosing Dells over Apple's, I would imagine some of the decision was based on support personel. Clearly the school district didn't fire all their Windows techs and replace them with Apple gurus, so I am sure when these techs had to submit incidence reports, they complained how long things took as they themselves learned how to administer Apple hardware and software. School district support jobs are nice and cushy and pretty much dead end so these aren't the cream of the crop support folks and probably don't enjoy having to learn new HW/SW to support.
I have people coming out of the woodwork here asking me where is the best way to get a Mac, via the Apple store or a local vendor, or what.
Why, because their Dell's keep crapping out on them repeatedly. One guy has had to rebuild his Dell system 4 times in less than a year. This week, he decided on an iMac flat panel.
And he's a Windows programmer.
The switch program is going to work, but not because of Apple marketing. Because of Master Gates.
???? out of the 20 or 30 apples here, we haven't had any replacements. Of the 10 or so dulls all have been in the shop for some reason, software (who'd of guessed) or hardware.
As a middle school teacher in Henrico County, it is dishearterning to see this decision made. However, I have to admit that Apple could have stepped up and really listened to the complaints we've had, such as having to use AppleWorks instead of Office and the lack of loaner computers for kids whose iBooks are in for repair. If Apple had offered those two things at a competitive price, it probably would have really helped.
In the research that was collected, it was the high school constituency that wanted PCs, probably for two reasons: first, three years of painful learning by both parents and students on the concept of laptops in high school student hands; and second, ther perception that PCs are more normally used in college and business. The nearer to graduation, the more disposed to PCs.
I've been a Mac user since 1984 and this is the second time I will have gone from a Mac to a PC in the workplace--can't imagine it will be an easy transition.
I am a student at Henrico... and i hated my ibook. A lot of people who are posting on this have no idea how much stuff is limited/restricted. We can't put anything on it, and if we desperately need a program installed, we have to bring it to our tech person, and that takes forever because so many broken ibooks that take priority or there. I can't wait to get my Dell next year, and I know that all of my peers and teachers couldn't agree more. So, before you do your little biased comment about how screwed we're going to be... think of what we want, DELLS. We haven't found out what is going to happen to all of the old ibooks, but we're hoping for a bonfire to destroy those little pieces of fragile crap.
Anonymous wrote: We can't put anything on it, and if we desperately need a program installed, we have to bring it to our tech person...
I can't wait to get my Dell next year, and I know that all of my peers and teachers couldn't agree more.
So...you think they're not going to restrict what you can do on the Dells?
I have no knowledge of your school system but that sounds VERY unlikely to me. Why would they suddenly drop that rule just because they're switching computers?
Guest wrote: I am a student at Henrico... and i hated my ibook. A lot of people who are posting on this have no idea how much stuff is limited/restricted. We can't put anything on it, and if we desperately need a program installed, we have to bring it to our tech person, and that takes forever because so many broken ibooks that take priority or there. I can't wait to get my Dell next year, and I know that all of my peers and teachers couldn't agree more. So, before you do your little biased comment about how screwed we're going to be... think of what we want, DELLS. We haven't found out what is going to happen to all of the old ibooks, but we're hoping for a bonfire to destroy those little pieces of fragile crap.
If you needed to bring it to the tech person to install programs, it is because they chose to restrict the access and the ability to install programs. In other words, it was not the fault of the computer but the policy of the school system.
Bet you will see exactly the same restriction on the Dells. You can restrict this sort of access through the account settings in XP, just like you can in OSX.
Anonymous wrote: We can't put anything on it, and if we desperately need a program installed, we have to bring it to our tech person...
I can't wait to get my Dell next year, and I know that all of my peers and teachers couldn't agree more.
So...you think they're not going to restrict what you can do on the Dells?
I have no knowledge of your school system but that sounds VERY unlikely to me. Why would they suddenly drop that rule just because they're switching computers?
Trust me, they WONT. I'm a law enforcement officer with a background in computers, IN CHARGE OF updating and maintaining a gang database...I'M locked out of all but the most basic functions of my department-issued Panasonic Toughbook. I PROMISE you, all of the students will be HIGHLY restricted as to what they can do on their low-end Dells.
If the complaints above are true - no MS Office (i.e. you can't share documents with the outside world), no loaner iBooks, no software installation, etc., it sounds like Apple and Henrico conspired to doom their project to failure.
The "no loaner computer" issue is interesting - when I get my laptop repaired, I don't want or need *another* computer - I need *my* computer, which has all of my data on it! This implies that people didn't store data on their own computers, which is astounding.
If the students don't actually own their iBooks, they won't take responsibility for them - they won't take care of them, they won't invest time and effort in them, and they will be disinclined to commit to them in any way, because they know they'll lose them as soon as they graduate or as soon as the contract ends.
By limiting access to the systems, the school district sent a strong message that "you don't own this machine, don't mess with it, don't do anything with it." The whole point of personal computers, and certainly Apple's entire philosophy, is empowering individuals and encouraging creativity. If you have no control over the machine, you are not empowered - you might as well have a terminal connected to a mainframe, a "network PC" or a stack of Xserves with Apple Remote Desktop and "restricted" accounts. What you will end up with, in that case, is something that is just a bit more creative and empowering than a cash register or ATM.
[Note that OS X does provide per-user preferences, and is also designed so that programs should be drag installs, so non-admin users should be able to install software, but many programs don't work this way unfortunately. It's not hard to administer a Mac - the district should trust the students to administer their own machines!! Also, the students should own their machines, which means having admin access.]
The Dell program will be more successful than the iBook program if:
- students own the computers and can keep them after they graduate
- the computers include MS Office (which sadly is required for exchanging data with the outside world)
- students have administrator access to their computers, so they can install software and run windows update, spy sweeper, etc. (well, you can always hack into windows if you need admin access)
- Dell/Henrico provides fast repair (and loaner computers, if desired or necessary)
- they computers are well protected against viruses, and automatic windows update is turned on
60 iBooks purchased for my school: 24 needed logic board replacements in the first year. 10 the following year. 10 more this year. Now I have to eat the cost of replacement with the expiration of the warranty. I simply can't afford that, nor do I trust that the new iBooks will be any more reliable. It's too bad that Apple quality control is so poor.
You know, you are so right about the lock-down on the computer. I mean, it just pisses me off TO NO END that everytime I want to install something on the iBook I bought I have to take it to the Apple store and have them install it. Apple SUCK! Why don't they release a version of the OS that the owners of the computer can install stuff on without having to ask their permission? I mean...
What? You mean it's not that way? You mean that even the new Dells they get will be locked down so some kid who has no right to install software on a computer they DO NOT OWN? Oh. Guess my thinking and reasoning was as stupid as that kid's, huh?
I work for a school district in SC. We know that the kids are going to try and install games and music and just plain crap on the computers. They don't have to fix them when they screw them up. If you feel that strongly about it, buy your own computer. The district did not have to let you borrow their property to begin with, you know. So stop whining.
Guest wrote: 60 iBooks purchased for my school: 24 needed logic board replacements in the first year. 10 the following year. 10 more this year. Now I have to eat the cost of replacement with the expiration of the warranty. I simply can't afford that, nor do I trust that the new iBooks will be any more reliable. It's too bad that Apple quality control is so poor.
If that is indeed the case, then it is not the fault of Apple's quality control. QC is responsible for making sure the manufactured product meets specification. That high a problem rate with a specific component would be the responsibility of the design engineers. Before the design of any electronic device goes to manufacture, the circuits are "breadboarded." Each component is vigorously analyzed to determine the cheapest method of fulfilling its function without undermining the overall functionality of the product. The purpose of this exercise is to reduce cost. If you shave just one dollar off of the cost of raw materials, that may translate into millions of dollars saved per year, depending on how many are built. The original Apples were breadboarded to very high standards. It would seem that with the above testimony, that is no longer the case.
I don't blame Dell or Apple as they are both in the business of making money. I blame the parents and the Henrico county administration, and maybe to a lesser degree MS/Windows.
My child briefly went to Henrico school and used the iBooks My opinion is the problems came from:
1. the parents- I went to a few PTA meetings and many parents complained they weren’t compatible with there home PC’s meaning Windows. Nobody wanted to hear me when I said the “It’s the PC that isn’t compatible with the Mac’s. As the iBook and OSX would handle most PC files and that it was the PC couldn’t handle things from the Mac”. That said I am primarily a PC/Windows user.
2. Management and administration: The teachers and students used Macs but office staff etc still used PC’s. Some parents asked why office work was being done on the PC’s and everything else was being done on a Mac. I have no idea why was this was being done either but it was a valid question. It provided the ILLUSION that Mac’s are fine for kids but when you go to work in the real world you will need to use a PC. Unless there was an absolute need or a requirements issue from a governing entity I see no reason why from top to bottom everyone in the school system wasn’t using Mac’s.
I know the first year was a bit rough in regards for turn abounds for repairs (yes they were a lot of repairs). But once they got hooked up with a good service company they are now getting 48 hour turn around. As I understand it Dell said they could do 24 hour turn around though I don’t see that mentioned anywhere. My guess is that if Dell said that it must have come from the marketing department and not the tech support department. It will certainly be interesting to see if this rings true. The best they can hope for now is that the students will get fed up and install Linux on the Dells.
Fred Morton the Superintendent replaced all Macs with Gateway PCs in the previous county that he worked in. I've spoken to a lot of teachers in Henrico, and the great majority are very upset with the change to PCs. But teachers are always the last to be asked about technology needs, usually the IT departments decide, implement, and rule.
Anonymous wrote: Fred Morton the Superintendent replaced all Macs with Gateway PCs in the previous county that he worked in. I've spoken to a lot of teachers in Henrico, well, actually I'm lying, I don't want someone coming here from the web and see all this "FUD" so I made this up hoping to make everyone else feel good about Apple. I'm a hopeless Mac fan.
CloseViewName:Intruder- TMO Mac SpecialistPosts: 2846Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:51 amSubject: No MS Office
If the complaint was there was no MS Office on the machines, the district should have considered getting a license for that from Microsoft. I doubt the Dells come with Office, unless that was added in by Dell. It is not part of a standard software install.
Guest wrote: I am a student at Henrico... and i hated my ibook. A lot of people who are posting on this have no idea how much stuff is limited/restricted. We can't put anything on it, and if we desperately need a program installed, we have to bring it to our tech person, and that takes forever because so many broken ibooks that take priority or there. I can't wait to get my Dell next year, and I know that all of my peers and teachers couldn't agree more. So, before you do your little biased comment about how screwed we're going to be... think of what we want, DELLS. We haven't found out what is going to happen to all of the old ibooks, but we're hoping for a bonfire to destroy those little pieces of fragile crap.
Grow up, shorty. Start with this opportunity to shut up and pay attention. The vast majority of us here have forgotten more than you'll ever know, and not just about Macs. Hopefully your narrow mind is merely a symptom of your age, like the seeping damp behind your ears.
You may hate your iBook. Cool. Hate it. When you're educated enough to express yourself intelligently, you will have realized that EVERY company has success and disaster stories, same as you will throughout your life. Dell's hardware is nothing to brag about. I buy and deploy PILES throughout the Pentagon. That said...
Shame on Apple for fragility, iffy reliability and generally being bastards when you try to get something fixed. Bad, bad Apple! Moving on...
Your School's IT department should lock up your Windows laptops as tight as an eel's a$$, you betcha! You shouldn't even be allowed to cross the street without supervision, let alone install software. We don't even let our end users set the clock or change screen savers. No software installs. No printer connections. NOTHING. With Windows, it's just too big a risk to the individual and to the enterprise.
Even if you didn't screw that up, the moment you felt brave or clever enough to surf porn, pirate software, steal music or waste time responding to flame-baiting morons on discussion boards... some sociopath in Romania is going to OWN you and, perhaps through you, your whole school system. That's just how Windows is. Think you know how to support PC's, shorty? HA! Just wait.
Yes, there are fanatics here who claim Apple builds to a higher standard. That's not true. Apple DESIGNS to a higher standard by far. Other manufacturers openly say so all the time. They all copy-cat every innovation Apple has introduced over the years since before you were potty trained. But any assembly with a HUMAN involved in any ANY step is going to get screwed up. Can't help it. Case Closed.
Oh yeah, shorty, ask your English teacher about comma splices, prepositions, pronouns, and subject-verb agreement. If you can't shut up, at least improve your grammar.
Grow up, shorty. Start with this opportunity to shut up and pay attention. Mac fans don't want to hear about your failures even though we promote choice and free speech.
You may hate your iBook. Cool. I do too. You will have realized that EVERY company has more success than Apple and Apple will curse you throughout your life. Dell's hardware I brag about. I buy and deploy PILES throughout the Pentagon. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket. I work for the Pentagon...
Shame on Apple for fragility, iffy reliability and generally being bastards when you try to get something fixed.
Macs can do tasks just as good as Windows. For example, on Macs you can surf porn, pirate software, steal music or waste time responding to flame-baiting morons on discussion boards.
Yes, there are fanatics here like me. I still need to be. But any assembly with a HUMAN involved in any ANY step is going to get screwed up.Except for Jobs, let's worship him!!
My child briefly went to Henrico school and used the iBooks My opinion is the problems came from:
2. Management and administration: The teachers and students used Macs but office staff etc still used PC’s. Some parents asked why office work was being done on the PC’s and everything else was being done on a Mac. I have no idea why was this was being done either but it was a valid question. It provided the ILLUSION that Mac’s are fine for kids but when you go to work in the real world you will need to use a PC. Unless there was an absolute need or a requirements issue from a governing entity I see no reason why from top to bottom everyone in the school system wasn’t using Mac’s.
You are just plain wrong about this. Almost ALL individuals in management and administration use a Mac as their primary work computer.
The "no loaner computer" issue is interesting - when I get my laptop repaired, I don't want or need *another* computer - I need *my* computer, which has all of my data on it! This implies that people didn't store data on their own computers, which is astounding.
If the students don't actually own their iBooks, they won't take responsibility for them - they won't take care of them, they won't invest time and effort in them, and they will be disinclined to commit to them in any way, because they know they'll lose them as soon as they graduate or as soon as the contract ends.
By limiting access to the systems, the school district sent a strong message that "you don't own this machine, don't mess with it, don't do anything with it." The whole point of personal computers, and certainly Apple's entire philosophy, is empowering individuals and encouraging creativity. If you have no control over the machine, you are not empowered - you might as well have a terminal connected to a mainframe, a "network PC" or a stack of Xserves with Apple Remote Desktop and "restricted" accounts. What you will end up with, in that case, is something that is just a bit more creative and empowering than a cash register or ATM.
[Note that OS X does provide per-user preferences, and is also designed so that programs should be drag installs, so non-admin users should be able to install software, but many programs don't work this way unfortunately. It's not hard to administer a Mac - the district should trust the students to administer their own machines!! Also, the students should own their machines, which means having admin access.]
The Dell program will be more successful than the iBook program if:
- students own the computers and can keep them after they graduate
- the computers include MS Office (which sadly is required for exchanging data with the outside world)
- students have administrator access to their computers, so they can install software and run windows update, spy sweeper, etc. (well, you can always hack into windows if you need admin access)
- Dell/Henrico provides fast repair (and loaner computers, if desired or necessary)
- they computers are well protected against viruses, and automatic windows update is turned on
Like a textbook, the computer is on loan to the students for the duration of the school year. You don't get to keep your textbooks and you don't get to keep your computer.
The laptop is meant to be an instructional tool, not a free toy. You can create all the creative word processing documents, movies, graphics, etc. that you need to without having admin access to your machine. Need to do something extra for instructional purposes? Not only does the district support you in this, they install it for you and makes sure that it works with everything else installed on your machine. Not a bad deal and a much different situation than terminals hooked up to a mainframe as you are trying to portray.
And as for your personal data, since all computers fail sooner or later, you should be backing up it up to your personal folder on the central server on a regular basis. That's why it's there.
