TMO Reports - CNet News: Apple Will Announce Intel Switch on Monday
by , 8:55 PM EDT, June 3rd, 2005
Apple Computer will finally make the long called-for, long rumored, and often speculated move to Intel, according to a report by CNet News. The news outlet reported Friday evening that Apple would be announcing Monday, June 6th that the company would switch from the PowerPC processor family to Intel's family of processors .
According to the report, Apple will be moving low-end Macs such as the Mac mini to Intel in mid-2006, while high-end models will begin the transition in mid-2007.
The most recent speculation about such a switch was prompted by a report from the Wall Street Journal in May that said Apple and Intel were in talks.
The report, citing two industry executives with knowledge of recent discussions between the companies, said Apple will agree to use Intel Pentium processors, but gave no further details.
"Talks between Apple and Intel could founder, as they have before, or Apple could be engaging in negotiations with Intel to gain leverage over IBM," the WSJ report said.
Since that report was first published, a variety of analysts have expressed various levels of skepticism; these reactions ranged from the idea that Apple was simply trying to pressure IBM, the maker of Apple's G5 PowerPC processors, to the fact that Apple would have enormous difficulty moving its developer base to yet another change in processors.
So far, Apple has moved from the 68k processor, to the original PowerPC line, to the G4 processor with AltiVec, to the 64-bit G5 processor made by IBM. It is unclear what message Apple will deliver to its developers, but Monday marks the beginning of the World Wide Developer's Conference in San Francisco, with a keynote by Apple CEO Steve Jobs.
Apple's policy is to not comment on unannounced products, and the CNet News story did not name its sources. After the Wall Street Journal's story, however, Intel CEO Paul Ortellini simply said that a switch to Intel for Apple was "the Haley's Comet of rumors."
Sorry iLemmings, you may need some medication or counseling, but it's finally happened, you're joining the rest of the PC world. Please try to stay calm and realize that everything will be OK.
Last edited by RealityCheck on Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:50 pm; edited 2 times in total Reply | Quote
Intel chips are dreadful from a simple technological perspective. I've written assembly code on a bunch of different chips, and P4 still reeks badly of 1979 technology. If Apple moves to Intel, I'm going to have to sell off all my computers and become a hermit, living in a little shack with no electricity until I finally go completely insane and kill myself out of sheer, depressed desperation.
if you read the quote it said "thats the haleys comet of rumors" which means it circulates every 56 years makes a big splash across the sky and dissapears.
Might come as a shock, but Intel is capable of delivering a PowerPC and since Apple was one of the original three companies involved in the PPC development they probably have the rights to use it.
So what do you really know? Apple might use stuff from Intel's fabs? That's about it. PPC or x86? x86 looks a little long in the tooth right now.
The key you have to remember in all your joy is that it will not run Windows - not even Longhorn that might be out in 2007 with a little luck. It'll still be a Mac with a chip made by Freescale, IBM or maybe Intel. It won't have Windows can of worms. It won't have the MS burden of backward compatibility. It'll just be a Mac.
at least go with AMD. Intel is so far behind with their Chinese manufactured crap now. What about the promising cell technology? Let's just jump to that!
So all of my software will be useless soon since it is built for powerpc? Or will Apple have some sort of emulator slowing it down on already-hurting Intel chips?
why not 2-3 years ago when the motorola G4s lack so badly in clock speed, and why break the news a full year before the start of the transition.
Also -
Consumer models first? - not the way Apple handles things usually - they usually put the new stuff in the hands of the high end users first to work out the kinks.
Sigh. This is a real bummer. You guys would not believe the performance a decent programmer can squeeze out of AltiVec on G4 and G5 chips for graphics processing compared to the lowest common denominator vector solutions on x86. This is going to be one area where we take a gigantic step backwards. Cooling is another issue. I can't imagine how they'll deliver an Intel or AMD based 17" PowerBook that doesn't burn your crotch. Anyway, call me skeptical.
Let's see- Apple is going to rewrite ALL of their software, and throw out EVERYTHING they've done up to now, to save a couple of bucks on each processor chip? Seriously- a couple of bucks each. Maybe.
From Appleinsider:
"While generating much buzz in the industry, analysts were skeptical, despite the fact that it may help Apple become more competitive by reducing the cost of Macs and also allow the company to deliver faster Macs with shorter intervals between product refreshes."
How exactly? By re-inventing the wheel, and forcing all of their vendors to do so too? "Faster Macs"? The megahertz myth has been dead for a while, fellas. This is somehow going to reduce their costs? How? When?
This is nothing more than the usual nonsensical FUD that spews forth before every, and I mean every, big Apple show. Anything to knock another quick dollar from Apple's share price, if only for a moment. CNET is perhaps the worst offender, with their subtle and not so, slant against Apple in all of their stories and reviews. As far as CNET is concerned, Apple's glass is always half empty... every crappy new MP3 player is the NEXT IPOD KILLER!!! and on and on it goes.
Microsoft is so far up CNET's butt, they can taste cardigan.
Look, how many times have we assumed doom, only to find Jobs had a great idea in mind? Killing the Newton, killing the Clones, the product matrix, the iMac, and especially the iPod to name a few. If they do go to Intel, I'm sure it will work out better than if they didn't.
We DON'T KNOW what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe IBM has threatened to raise prices due to poor yields, maybe there are severe tech problems with the G6, maybe, maybe, maybe. But two processors suppliers are better than one, right?
And, fine people, this may be the beginning of MAJOR migration to Apple hardware (Macs or whatever they're called). Imagine an Apple machine that would dual-boot to OS X and Windows. Two words: GAME OVER. There would be no more obstacles or objections, no need to "switch." Apple's marketshare would grow in an order of magnitude overnight. This will bring the PC loyalists in droves. Think maybe now those Wall Street analysts that have been pumping Apple to absurd heights might have some inside knowledge?
Will it happen? Who knows. but at least now you're thinking on a positive note. Nothing is being lost here. It's not like Apple will supply ONLY Intel chips.
I've been insisting that Apple has had an x86 version of OS X running alongside the PPC version ever since "yellow box." Now it appears they have, indeed.
It seems to me as though a ring has been tossed into a volcano somewhere...
and always has been. I'm not a programmer, just a user, since 1989, and I've always loved Apple's innovative and well-designed OS's.
I have trouble seeing why this shift would be a disaster for developers, since we'll still be using Unix-based OSX, but what do I know? (Not much on that score.)
If it lowers the price a couple of bucks and increases the speed a notch, great. Not so much because my machine is slow, but because the steady market decline spells eventual disaster.
otaojones wrote: if you read the quote it said "thats the haleys comet of rumors" which means it circulates every 56 years makes a big splash across the sky and dissapears.
CloseViewName:JimWCBPosts: 301Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:13 amSubject:
1) The article never actually says "Pentium", so it could be Intel is going to start making PowerPc processors.
2) Did Microsoft actually say their xbox dual-code PowerPC processors would be from IBM? I could see Apple wanting Intel's mass production capabilities behind the PowerPC (and maybe eventually dump the x86 line all together ).
3) This could just be a fake story leaked by Apple to catch a spy/build p audiencefor it's real announcements on Monday.
4) Concering how big of a step back this will be, they'd loose most of their exisitng base.
5) What's the best Linux distribution out there?
6) I'm glad I held off on that Dual 2.3GHz G5 purchase now.
just wait until Monday. My guess is that it's Motorola that has spurred this decision by finally knifing the G4. Apple is just looking for a replacement chip for its second tier.
I know C|net says Apple is moving away from IBM, but I smell ass-umption in that story. And I also smell Steve Jobs and his wry enjoyment of manipulating the press.
JimWCB wrote: 1) The article never actually says "Pentium", so it could be Intel is going to start making PowerPc processors.
It doesn't have to be PowerPC... intel has dual core chips and there is Itanium... (ok forgret Itanium)
2) Did Microsoft actually say their xbox dual-code PowerPC processors would be from IBM? I could see Apple wanting Intel's mass production capabilities behind the PowerPC (and maybe eventually dump the x86 line all together ).
Apple probably can't take all of the PowerPC design to Intel... if any as the agreement involved IBM/Apple/motorola... I don't see either of the other two allowing Apple to just walk off or ask another group to join the party without their permissions... and the part they might remotely be able to take (altivec) may not work well on Intel
3) This could just be a fake story leaked by Apple to catch a spy/build p audiencefor it's real announcements on Monday.
Yes... yes Apple would do just that... imagine how the press will react to other stories from Apple... are they telling us the truth now... this is not being reported by the usual rumor sites (other than as commentary on WSJ/Cnet stories or in their forums)
4) Concering how big of a step back this will be, they'd loose most of their exisitng base.
How is this a step back? Why would they lose most of their base... they didn't lose them moving to PPC, didn't lose them moving to OS X, thereis no reason why it should happen with this move
5) What's the best Linux distribution out there?
Huh? What has this got to do with mac on intel... other than screwing over Yellow Dog Linux. Apple gains little or nothing from Yellow Dog Linux... losing them is not going to hurt the Mac...
6) I'm glad I held off on that Dual 2.3GHz G5 purchase now.
Because?? You will buy a MacTel or because you think Apple is really going down the tubes
Look at points 1 and 2. The whole war between PC and Mac users used to be "Wintel" vs. "Mac/PPC". That's changed drastically since I've started using computers.
Jim is right. If they do go through with this they are JUST changing manufacturers, NOT necessarily moving to x86. (which by the way, kenaustus, does look long in the tooth.) Intel could just be manufacturing the chip. Especially since xbox is moving towards that architechture anyway.
If Microsoft is putting PPC processors made by Intel in xBoxes, you can bet that there will be alot of them making the prices lower. Therefore it will be cheaper for apple to buy PPC processors. That's a no brainer. This is business and if you save 5 bucks per computer and manufacture 100,000 computers..... do the math. I can tell you what I could spend an extra half a million on to further a company.
...it would destroy Apple overnight. If Apple announced Monday that they were moving the platform to x86 starting next year the following would occur:
Current Mac sales would immediately plummet to near zero. No one is going to buy a computer that is obsolete right out of the box. Apple would go from 12 billion in annual revenue to somewhere south of 2 billion. The stock would drop into the single digits. Quarterly marketshare would drop from 3% to a fraction of a percent.
Large developers like Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, Quark, Intuit, etc. -- who have recently spent millions of dollars rewriting their applications for OS X on PPC -- would throw up their hands in disgust and walk away. No way in hell those guys are going to spend more money rewriting their apps for a different processor for a platform that already has such a marginal share of the market. Plus, they would have to maintain builds for both processors for many years. Ain't gonna happen.
Apple would love to tell IBM and Freescale to piss up a rope and move to Intel. Hell, I'd love it, too. But, from a business standpoint, it is simply not practical. You can make a case that, in the long run, Intel would be a better choice from a technical point of view. However, that is irrelevant if making such a move destroys three-quarters of your company's revenue for three years while you make the transition and your major developers jump ship.
The only reason Apple would abandon the the PPC would be if they have decided to exit the PC business entirely because IBM informed them the 970 won't scale and can't be adapted for laptops.
I will say it again. It does not matter whether the x86 is superior to the 970 or vice versa. It doesn't matter that OS X can run on x86. The only things that matter are revenue, profit and valuation. All of those will plummet if Apple announces a move to Intel on Monday.
Anyway, you guys can now continue babbling about how cool or not cool -- depending on your irrelevant point of view -- it would be if Mac's had Intel processors. Have fun.
RealityCheck wrote: Sorry iLemmings, you may need some medication or counseling, but it's finally happened, you're joining the rest of the PC world. Please try to stay calm and realize that everything will be OK.
You had to edit that drivel not once, but twice? Are we vain...
RealityCheck wrote: Sorry iLemmings, you may need some medication or counseling, but it's finally happened, you're joining the rest of the PC world. Please try to stay calm and realize that everything will be OK.
You had to edit that drivel not once, but twice? Are we vain...
Actually, I thought RC's post was quite funny. Who cares if he edited it twice. Something like this doesn't come around that often. Let him bask in the it.
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:28 amSubject:
"Sorry iLemmings, you may need some medication or counseling, but it's finally happened, you're joining the rest of the PC world. Please try to stay calm and realize that everything will be OK."
Sorry, Reality Check, but switching to Intel for a processor supplier doesn't mean that suddenly Apple's computers will come with Windows XP installed. They'd still be running OS X. You lose.
There's also the fact that the "rest of the PC world" doesn't use Intel processors, or even x86 processors, and certainly not Windows.
Which brings up the other fact that if Apple did switch, they'd still be using PowerPC processors. Not x86. Even Microsoft recongnizes that x86 is an outmodded technology.
"but it's finally happened, you're joining the rest of the PC world."
And therein lies the reason you are the way you are. You can't wait for us to have to wallow in the same crap you do. It burns your ass that our system is better than yours.
You have got to be the single biggest loser I've encountered on any forum on the internet in 10 years.
CloseViewName:zpokPosts: 80Joined: 06 May 2004 Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:57 amSubject: rumor...
It should be mentioned that this is one hell of a track record for a rumor.
First the Turd mentions this, to always predictable great success for him and his advertisers, then the rumor page of an established newspaper picks it up, then Forbes mentions it (not saying it came from the rumor page when citing the source), which gets mentioned in its turn by CNN, and now C|Net, our most trusted source on All Things Mac throws in its weight, claiming to know the migration date and strategy.
Well about those talks, I have three plausible scenario's:
- Intel is working on PPC, naturally Apple might be interested, everybody might be interested at this point...
- Intel and Apple talk about Wimax, which of course we can only encourage.
- some as yet unknown device would be better served/cheaper with intel inside. A bit out there, but as far as "Apple using x86" theories go, I find this one the most likely.
The rest is pretty far fetched. If Apple would jump processors, there would have to be very very compelling reasons to go for Apple hardware, especially when some OS brands are finally getting serious about PPC and others are finally getting some recognition for having been there all along (Apple/NeXT among those).
And I just don't see Jobs having fun with software alone.
One other thing: if an article had claimed "Apple never talks with Intel", I'd be shocked. Now it claims that Apple talks with the largest chipmaker in the world. Somehow this totally fails to surprise me.
Oh well, we'll know in a couple of days, I've been wrong before...
If Apple is in fact switching from PowerPC to Intel, they'd have to do a damn good job of differentiating their offering from the legions of PCs out there. At this point, they can do this with the PowerPC and the related architecture, I'm not so sure how they'd do that on an Intel platform.
I can't imagine Apple and Steve making such a ho-hum announcement of replacing one chip with another. There just had to be more to it. What I think would be really neat would be some sort of hybrid that has both PowerPC and Intel processors inside. Now that'd be something different.
CloseViewName:otwPosts: 9Joined: 15 Aug 2001 Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:43 amSubject: intel
If they are going to asking us to purchase all new software again, you can add me to the Death Knoll. I don't hear anyone talking about that so I hope that this comment is out of order. I'm not an expert so be kind!
The only way Apple can implement Intel chips is if Intel makes processors that match the instructions set of the PowerPC. That would require a total redesign of the processor.
Yet, I think, not only could it be done, but Intel would be willing to do it provided they play their cards right with Apple. Intel recently announced that they wanted to get into the consumer electronics business. What better partner than the company with the best reputation already for consumer devices? Forget Tivo, Apple could build their own device powered by Intel chips.
There is one other possibility that has been mentioned before. Remember USB? Who made it? Intel. Who made it popular? Apple. I think this is going to be the same thing with WiMax, seeing as how the Powerebook is a benchmark for what a great laptop should be.
This is the equivalent of the double or triple bluff, or whatever its called. There will be a major announcement on Monday, but not what we are expecting.
> If they are going to asking us to purchase all new software again...
You will have to upgrade one way or the other... All major mac developers offered a cross grade to PPC when
Apple swithced then.
> ...they'd have to do a damn good job of differentiating their offering...
Haven't they done that with the iPod? The fact is windows users now know Mac is better. For the first time I have seen people actually chose Mac who never would have touched it with a 10ft pole before.
> there would have to be very very compelling reasons to go for Apple hardware...
Hello... do you buy Apple for PPC... no you buy Apple for Mac OS X and for great industrial design. Having a PowerBook is about having the OS and a cool looking machine (with some really nice components)... the PPC has no effect on this quotient
> The only things that matter are revenue, profit and valuation. All of those will plummet if Apple announces a move to Intel on Monday. ...
Why? You have not given one reason for this to occur... unless your product choice to buy Apple in the first place was based only on getting PPC... If you don't buy Apple because they are on Intel fine... you're the ones holding them back... good bye
> The whole war between PC and Mac users used to be "Wintel" vs. "Mac/PPC"...
Apple lost that war long ago... this is a new war and it is simply Mac vs Windows. Windows runs on AMD and Intel. Linux runs on almost anything... do you seriously think Apple can ever grow market share just being on PPC...
> You can bet that there will be alot of them making the prices lower...
You are failing capitalism 101... as demand goes up so do prices... it is more likely that IBM was going to raise prices on Apple, not lower them becuase now they have three major customers for their PPC line... MS, Sony and Apple... which is the smallest of these players. Isn't it possible that MS's choice to use PPC on the XBox had something to do with depriving Apple of an essential component...
> I can't imagine how they'll deliver an Intel or AMD based 17" PowerBook that doesn't burn your crotch...
They can't deliver a G5 for the same reasons... as far as graphic capabilities... maybe Apple will get Intel to include the Altivec engine on the Pentium dual cores... maybe this is what everybody is missing... You won't have to buy new software... you won't have to sacrifice speed... you won't have just another Wintel box... You won't just be able to go off and install OS X on any pc... You will have one of the most advanced "personal" computing systems ever made.
CloseViewName:zpokPosts: 80Joined: 06 May 2004 Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:38 amSubject:
Quote
Guest wrote: You are hyperventalating... take adeep breath...
> there would have to be very very compelling reasons to go for Apple hardware...
Hello... do you buy Apple for PPC... no you buy Apple for Mac OS X and for great industrial design. Having a PowerBook is about having the OS and a cool looking machine (with some really nice components)... the PPC has no effect on this quotient
Speak for yourself
Seriously, if you talk about really nice components, that includes the processor. PPC does have an effect on your little quotient, maybe not for you, though.
I don't think bad about intel because it's not Apple, but following the scenario some propose, being a switch to x86, that can hardly be called an improvement. So all other things aside, I think the processor matters, Apple thinks the processor matters, most serious geeks think the processor matters. This only applies to the extremely unlikely scenario mentioned above.
For the rest I don't care how much intel Apple puts in its design (the more the better, if it means having good wifi and niceties like USB) as long as their processor remains PPC - be it from IBM, Motorola, someone else or intel...
Intel could become Apple's main chip supplier if they bought Freescale! Such a move would make Intel a full partner in the Power PC alliance. Intel would finally get Apple as a customer and I assume they could also make a little money off of what used to be Moto's embedded processor business. IBM would probably want to object but their lawyers would probably tell them it wouldn't be worth it. Steve Jobs announcement on Monday would be a historic moment!
Then you should seriously be looking at the IBM OpenPower stuff. We got a collection of the 710 blades and these things ROCK, they are so fast. http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/openpower/
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:46 pmSubject:
"You are hyperventalating... take adeep breath..."
Try thinking your head instead of your ass. Even if Apple switched to Intel for their processor supplier, they still wouldn't be using x86 chips. But Apple won't be switching to Intel, anyway.
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:56 pmSubject:
Methinks it's INTEL that is switching (to producing PPC chips for Apple and the game console makers) rather than OS X on x86.
Fear not, your Mac will not have an "intel inside" sticker... perhaps it's Intel that will have a "PowerPC inside" sticker instead. I'm sure they're chomping @ the bits to see those RISC blueprints.
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:32 pmSubject:
Does this mean you'll finally shut up and go away? A switch to Intel might be worth it if it means your departure.
Quote
RealityCheck wrote: Sorry iLemmings, you may need some medication or counseling, but it's finally happened, you're joining the rest of the PC world. Please try to stay calm and realize that everything will be OK.
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:08 pmSubject:
Unlike most PC companies, Apple actually plays a part in the design process of the Power PC chip. My guess is if Apple decided to use Intel it would still have Intel make a chip specifif to its specifications. Also, as another person pointed out, Apple actually owns some right regarding the use of the POwer PC.
Apple will introduce new machines that will use a brand new line of processors from Intel. It's not going to be a variant of the x86, but rather, it will license the AltiVec/Velocity Engine from Apple, and it will have multiple cores. I forgot to ask my source at Intel if it's going to be a 64-bit procesor. He says it will blow all the competition out of the water.
).
