TMO at WWDC - Live, Continuous Coverage of Jobs Keynote HERE
by , 1:00 PM EDT, June 6th, 2005
SAN FRANCISCO -- Click here for a direct link to our live coverage of today's keynote address by Apple CEO and co-founder Steve Jobs at the Worldwide Developers Conference.
CloseViewName:Small White CarPosts: 1960Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:42 pmSubject:
There's the missing piece. The fact that Apple's been preparing for this for years is something people didn't factor into their conversations about this.
As of right now (40 minutes in) I still don't know everything yet, but I have to say I'm feeling pretty good. This looks like it will be about as "painful" as the switch from a G4 to a G5 was. Maybe a little more difficult, but not by much.
If they're smart, they'll call this thing a "G6" even if it has nothing to do with PowerPC. Lets keep this as simple as we can, shall we?
CloseViewName:TigerPosts: 971Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:01 pmSubject: has to be said
This is going to drive Mac users toward Linux.
Apple's hardware sales have just tanked. We won't be buying ANY new Macs here for years, if ever again. And we're a Mac shop. This is sad. Truly sad. I hear a large sucking sound coming out of Cupertino.
It's not about PowerPC versus Intel Pentium or it dual core stuff. All is about poor and slow development at Apple. And the worst thing is that there is no base to stand on with apple products anymore, you can't build a economic running platform from a company that always change and always build on the next best technoly. It's not about MS Office or these bigger softwares. There is also the underlaying tools for many tasks that will now never be transferd to the ageing Intel platform. Man, I give up. Will not spend thousands of dollar again. Next computer will be Windows based. I was Mac forever what ever happened to Apple. Sorry, I have now give up.
CloseViewName:Guest Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:18 pmSubject: damn
I have to believe this is not a wise buisness move but another example of Jobs increasingly losing it-- a tantrum at not getting his way from IBM that may take the company down.
In our case we were primed to by a raft of the next gen top of the line power pcs but now I can't risk them not being supported. I'm sure our main specialty software vendors will discontinue-- mac support was alwys vunerable there. Time to chang platforms. Damn. Just when macs were looking so good
CloseViewName:adm58Posts: 13Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:28 pmSubject: So what?
Did anybody pay attention to the coverage? I don't see what the big deal is. If somebody gave you an Intel based Mac, you could do anything you wanted to on it, including run PPC compiled programs. Not that you'll have to because developer support will be strong. So what is the problem? Is it just a stigma because it's Intel? I don't get it.
I think the most interesting part of the keynote came when Steve mentioned that Apple envisions products for the customers that aren't possible on PPC. They are obviously reasons for doing this, and it's not to say f*&$ you or to kill the Mac or something absurd like that. Chill.
CloseViewName:Small White CarPosts: 1960Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:42 pmSubject: Re: What a disater
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Anonymous wrote: Man, I give up. Will not spend thousands of dollar again. Next computer will be Windows based. I was Mac forever what ever happened to Apple. Sorry, I have now give up.
Ok, have fun, but I have to warn you, Windows users buy new software too.
I know that's shocking, but they've all moved on past Windows 95. They had to spend money to upgrade all their programs too. Unless you're turning to piracy, or something. Is that your plan?
When Apple released the iPod everyone here said - 'uh? it's just and mp3 player - what's the big deal?' You were wrong then, and, because you are part of the 2% of the population that are Mac users, you will be wrong now. This likely means the availability of machines that are cheaper but still quality. From a Joe Public perspective, it takes away the GHz issue, and means that the laptops can compete more easily.
If OS X can be bought to run on any PC, then that will increase Apple's market share, and they may be able to protect their hardware side by ensuring total hardware software integration for a variety of products. Remember that Apple build solutions, not computers.
When Apple released the iPod everyone here said - 'uh? it's just and mp3 player - what's the big deal?' You were wrong then, and, because you are part of the 2% of the population that are Mac users, you will be wrong now. This likely means the availability of machines that are cheaper but still quality. From a Joe Public perspective, it takes away the GHz issue, and means that the laptops can compete more easily.
If OS X can be bought to run on any PC, then that will increase Apple's market share, and they may be able to protect their hardware side by ensuring total hardware software integration for a variety of products. Remember that Apple build solutions, not computers.
CloseViewName:Guest Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:57 pmSubject:
i love all the ibm fanbois who think the intel/x86 platform is so horrible they're going to give up on macs and buy windows machines...on x86 platforms. lol. do you guys realize just how little sense you're making?
Who is going to buy one of these legacy macs over the next few years?
Can Apple survive on just the Ipod?
Can OSX survive with a year or two of no new cpu sales or switchers?
Will software developers?
Will IBM invest anything in research or production for Apple. I fear we'll see a little old man at a cobblers bench in the corner of Fishkill stamping out the remaining Apple CPUs while the big shiny machinery goes to work for Sony and Microsoft.
what about the supercomputers powered by Apple? Supposedly VaTech picked apple because of superior CPU.
And what about 64bit? Intel does not have a viable 64bit CPU. The new Pentium D is still 32bit. Also it is not on a single die. It is a multichip package.
I hope Jobs comes back and announces that the new Intel Chip will be based on the PPC platform.
Didn't IBM/Toshiba make the Cell processor open?
And doesn't Apple still own rights to the PPC? It was developed by AIM (Apple, IBM, Motorola).
It just does not make sense.
And it is not like Jobs to announce something without it ready to be shiped in the next few weeks.
CloseViewName:Guest Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:24 pmSubject:
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Small White Car wrote:
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Anonymous wrote: Who is going to buy one of these legacy macs over the next few years?
When the G5 first came out there were still these things called G4s that existed in iMacs, eMacs, Powerbooks, iBooks, and eventually Mac Minis.
Why do you think people bouht those "old" chips even though a newer one was available?
Entirely different. They were part of a hardware platform that was still supported. You can't make developers waste their time on on Power PC now. You can't make users believe they won't be abandoned. After all Apple claimed Classic would run legacy apps seamlessly but every one I tried was unstable to the point of unusability.
New cpps will start coming out certified for Intel only
CloseViewName:stefanwilliamsPosts: 2Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:38 pmSubject: hmmm....
I may be wrong, but I'm sure I recall that at the 'launch' of the IBM PowerPC Macs a few years ago, Jobs spoke about the huge bottle neck that Pentium's have, and thats why Apple have opted for the fantastic PowerPC chip?
at the bottom is says this "Exquisitely Advanced Technology -
With 64-bit power and high-bandwidth architecture, this groundbreaking system alleviates the limitations and bottlenecks of the traditional PC"
Traditional PC being - Pentium Based Systems?
I remember there used to be an animation on Apple's site showing how the G5 had no bottlenecks compared to the Pentium... So now I am officially confused...
sure the OS will offer greater stability... but I would have thought that regardless of OS, if a CPU has a bottleneck, it has a bottleneck... period!?
Stefan Williams makes a good point about the differences between the G5 and the Pentium. But Intel has learned a few things, and the Pentium M, the chip used in notebooks, has a redesigned architecture that has shorter pipes and is more like (though not the same as) a PPC. Intel understands that raw MHz is not the only, or even the best, way to achieve performance. So the chip architecture that Jobs was dissing years ago is not completely the same as the one that future Mac's will be using. I'm sure Steve will find a way to spin it all, as well
First off, Intel has sucked and still sucks. Their ONLY 64-bit solution is the Itanium (aka Itanic.) At nearly or over 100Watts, it will not be running on a portable anytime soon. The Intanic also stinks on ice in terms of performance. BTW did anyone notice that the Itanic was not mentioned. Guess Apple is hoping for a 64-bit Pentium... Oddly enough, AMD has been KICKING Intel's ASS ALL DAY on 64-bit processors and with processors in general in termns of price and perforance. The whole smokescreen about Intel being the best for it's customers is schlock! From the best I can tell, Apple is PISSED at IBM for some reason. AMD would have been the best choice outside of the PowerPC but... IBM helps AMD with manufacturing and some designs. Guess if you WANT to divorce thyself from IBM altogether, hop on the Intel bandwagon. I will still hold the position that Intel sucks until they prove me wrong.. and I do hope in some small way that they do...
I understand everyones fustration. Right now everyone seems to be in a daze of confusion, my self included. I think that all this confusion is caused by a change. Something that some people dont want to happen, and thats understandable. Change is one of the hardest things in life. But it happens. I can remeber this same type of hype when OS X was first demoed. Whats going to happen to OS 9, 8 and 7? What about the devoulpers? First of all, let me say Steve knows what he is doing. Obviously, he didnt impulsively want to switch to Intel, there WAS a reson. Secondly, Steve is no idiot. I know he will make these processors faster, more reilable and over all better than our PPC. Another thing is this. People say, "oh im not wating to buy a computer for the next 2 years, and I'll probebly switch to windows." Well do that. What are you going to loose? The quality of a Apple machine. The quality of intergration. The tech support (speak english and smart). And most of all the OS. Linux is great, but there ain't NOTHING like OS X. And oh yeah, one more thing....some people neglected this quote, which alot of this BS above. "Developers applauded Steve when he said that both processors would be supported for a long time to come, and the core to this will be universal binaries" yeah read it again.
-matt
goodbye PPC, we'll miss you...welcome intel. what can you do for us?
CloseViewName:gslusherPosts: 2063Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:07 amSubject: On any PC?
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Guest wrote: If OS X can be bought to run on any PC ...
There's more to that than the CPU, including the PRAM and ROM that Apple uses for booting. Why do you think that my 20-inch G4 iMac won't boot into any OS before 10.3? It has the same CPU, except for speed, that my older 15-inch G4 iMac had, and that would boot into not only 10.1, but OS 9.2.2. Apple controls the ROM and you can't build a Mac without it. That was what they licensed to Power Computing, UMax, etc.
Tiger wrote: We won't be buying ANY new Macs here for years, if ever again. And we're a Mac shop.
Huh? Did you say the same thing when the PPC came out? That was completely incompatible with the 640X0 CPUs. Oh, and I guess you would have said, "We'll never buy any more airplanes," if you were head of some airline when they shifted from piston engines to jets. There's silly, there's stupid, there's moronic, then there's this comment. Why not wait until you see what they can do before frothing at the mouth and making statements that, in a couple of years, will look idiotic?
CloseViewName:gslusherPosts: 2063Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:17 amSubject:
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Guest wrote: First off, Intel has sucked and still sucks. Their ONLY 64-bit solution is the Itanium (aka Itanic.) At nearly or over 100Watts, it will not be running on a portable anytime soon.
Apple's 64-bit CPU is the G5. Have you seen it in a portable? Have you seen the rather elaborate cooling system in the G5 PowerMac or casually put your hand on the wrong place on a G5 iMac? Ain't exactly cool, either.
Besides, who needs 64-bit processors, except a few in graphics and especially A/V-multimedia? There's darned little software for the G5 that takes advantage of 64-bit processing.
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