Mac mini also updated - RAM doubled, SuperDrive now standard in $699 model.

Sorry Apple, but when will you start to listen to the longer-than-10-years-of-complaining about the smaller units getting less features. It's also in complete opposition to PC laptops. Why is the smaller, lighter, more portable, 12" model still missing features available on the bigger model even though size is no issue!!! For **** sake, listen to your customers for once in your corporate life. Pros aren't blind, and they don't buy 14" screens that run a pathetic 1024x768 resolution. Bring the speed and the SuperDrive to the 12" model.

And by the way, for Mr. Angry Pants above, the pro's have a laptop from Apple: It's called the PowerBoook.

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jimothy wrote:
And by the way, for Mr. Angry Pants above, the pro's have a laptop from Apple: It's called the PowerBoook.

Yup. The 12" Powerbook has a 1.5 gHz G4 and can come with a Superdrive. The hard drives spin faster too. 5400 instead of the iBook's 4200.

Seems like that's what he wants.

Good job, Analyst Jimothy. Of course, Analyst Billy K (that's me), was correct as well.

Isn't it great being an Analyst? Now where's my check!?

The iBook isn't aimed at the "Pros", it's aimed at the consumer. This release is for the back to school crowd.
: )

The 'Book in question involved in the discussion of said term 'Pro' was the PBook, not the iBook.

Scoll up a bit.

EDIT:
Also, the link to the iBook page above leads to: http://www.aple.com/ibook -- whoops!

Does the video upgrade mean that widgets will ripple now?

Meh...

STILL no resolution above 1024*768? With all due respect, that's just pathetic, especially on a 14-inch model. This is a very weak upgrade IMO.

And sorry to all the people saying that people complaining about this should get a PBook. That's just rubbish. The iBook should be a decent consumer-level laptop, fit for use as a desktop replacement by the home user, and not some cheap upgrade to boost sales in the school purchase season.

Not interested. Bring on the Macintel portables next year...

NEXT!

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Eindvijand wrote:

The iBook should be a decent consumer-level laptop, fit for use as a desktop replacement by the home user...

You lost me there. I can totally understand how someone might be happy with a laptop as their only computer if that's all they need, but to consider any laptop to be a "desktop replacement" seems odd to me.

Yeah, I know, people do. I've met them in real life too. But I just don't get it. Isn't that like buying a Blackberry as a "laptop replacement?"

Yep... people do just that. I recently parted with my iMac G4 and bought a PB as a desktop replacement. Matter of fact, I deliberately saved up for the 17" model so that I wouldn't feel cramped into a small screen, and wouldn't miss the desktop. And I don't mind the relative heaviness of the 17" precisely because it spends most of its life on my desk.

Take care,

Steve

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rebbi wrote:
...because it spends most of its life on my desk.

That's what I'm talking about, though. You're paying more for a laptop only because it's smaller and portable. The same specs that a Powerbook has would cost far less in a larger computer.

I don't understand why you'd want to pay the extra money if you're rarely going to use the portability of it.

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rebbi wrote:
Yep... people do just that. I recently parted with my iMac G4 and bought a PB as a desktop replacement. Matter of fact, I deliberately saved up for the 17" model so that I wouldn't feel cramped into a small screen, and wouldn't miss the desktop. And I don't mind the relative heaviness of the 17" precisely because it spends most of its life on my desk.

I've done precisely the same thing; purchased a 17" PowerBook to replace an old G4. But note that we bought PowerBooks, and large screen ones at that; not iBooks.

The iBooks are extremely popular machines, and suit their intended audience well. For those that need something more, Apple offers the PowerBook line. Yeah, there more expensive, but things work that way: To get more, you usually have to pay more.

I have done it too. I have been using my PB 15" exclusively for a couple of years now.

The point is well taken: for those who need "desktop replacement", go with the PB. Otherwise, the iBooks are fine consumer portables.

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oldmac wrote:
The point is well taken: for those who need "desktop replacement", go with the PB. Otherwise, the iBooks are fine consumer portables.

It's nice to have options, I think!

I just noticed something...people are focusing on the fact that the minimum RAM has grown to 512 MB. But the exciting thing to me is that that has also changed the MAXIMUM memory up to 1.5 GB. I had forgotten that the iBook memory is built-in. Having 512 built in is a lot cooler than the Mac Mini update, which is just a chip change.

The iBook is for consumers. The Powerbook is for pros. You need to know the product matrix before you start passing erroneous judgements and cussing and name calling. Otherwise you look very, very foolish.

"I've done precisely the same thing; purchased a 17" PowerBook to replace an old G4. But note that we bought PowerBooks, and large screen ones at that; not iBooks."

Agreed. Not to mention the exquisite feel and ergonomics of the PowerBook, – a real pleasure to use, maybe even more enjoyable than a desktop system.
This explains the clamour for a G5 version, because the PB sets the standard
by which all other systems can be judged, even if the widescreen still does not incorporate the latest contrast/resolution enhancements.

As for the iBooks, I would have thought that they were overdue a redesign, even a minimalist one...seems like a long time since the heady days of Ives' experimentations.

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Anonymous wrote:
As for the iBooks, I would have thought that they were overdue a redesign, even a minimalist one...seems like a long time since the heady days of Ives' experimentations.

They probably would have, but now I bet they're holding off on any major changes until the Intel versions come out.

As a long time user of a PowerBook, I have a question. What's a desktop computer? Sounds like an immobile overgrown laptop with a lot of empty space below the plastic shell. What else does it do?

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Anonymous wrote:
As a long time user of a PowerBook, I have a question. What's a desktop computer? Sounds like an immobile overgrown laptop with a lot of empty space below the plastic shell. What else does it do?

Heat the room. And collect those little dust bunnies inside.

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Anonymous wrote:
As a long time user of a PowerBook, I have a question. What's a desktop computer? Sounds like an immobile overgrown laptop with a lot of empty space below the plastic shell. What else does it do?

Well, it saves a bit of money. I just looked at the best Powerbook I could buy and the cheapest iMac. (No custom changes to either.)

The Powerbook was $2,700 and the iMac was $1,300. They're pretty close, spec-wise, actually.

Ok, so what do you get for that extra $1,400? Well, by going with the Powerbook you get:

+ Portability
- 60 GB less in your hard drive
- A slower RPM on your hard drive
- A 1.67 ghZ G4 instead of a 1.8 gHz G5 (and the slower bus that goes along with it)
+ A video card that's one number higher
+ A Super Drive

So some things are better and some things are worse. My point is not that the Powerbooks aren't really cool...they are...but that if you look at the list, MOST of that extra $1,400 you're spending is going towards that first item: Portability.

I have no problem spending an extra $1,400 to gain portability. It's a useful feature. But I can not understand spending $1,400 for a feature I wouldn't use. And if your laptop is simply acting like a desktop, you're not using the one feature that you spent the most money on.

Mac asses!

Well, we've certainly been told, haven't we!

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Small White Car wrote:

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rebbi wrote:
...because it spends most of its life on my desk.

That's what I'm talking about, though. You're paying more for a laptop only because it's smaller and portable. The same specs that a Powerbook has would cost far less in a larger computer.

I don't understand why you'd want to pay the extra money if you're rarely going to use the portability of it.

Of course, you always pay a premium for portability: the miniaturization and design finesse that go into a laptop like the PB cost more — granted; and I do admit to feeling that the PB 17" qualifies as an "extravagently expensive" laptop (although I will be getting around $300 dollars rebate back from Mac Mall via a 10% off promotion they ran for a few days at the end of June!)

I got the laptop because while the PB does sit on my desk a good deal, when I need the portability, it really makes a difference in my life. Last night I needed to file some tax forms on line — how nice to be able to do that hanging out in bed with the computer in my lap, hooked up via Airport, rather than "chained" to my desk. Or the other day, I took the PB to a coffee shop to get some work done because I was going crazy sitting in my office. So even if I only really take advantage of the portability a few times a week, when I need it, it's really, really a pleasure. And with my eyesight, the enormous screen is a gift.

Take care,

Steve

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Guest wrote:
"I've done precisely the same thing; purchased a 17" PowerBook to replace an old G4. But note that we bought PowerBooks, and large screen ones at that; not iBooks."

Agreed. Not to mention the exquisite feel and ergonomics of the PowerBook, – a real pleasure to use, maybe even more enjoyable than a desktop system.
This explains the clamour for a G5 version, because the PB sets the standard
by which all other systems can be judged, even if the widescreen still does not incorporate the latest contrast/resolution enhancements.

As for the iBooks, I would have thought that they were overdue a redesign, even a minimalist one...seems like a long time since the heady days of Ives' experimentations.

Ergonomics: yes — I actually like the "short travel" of the PB keyboard more than the Logitech full-size keyboard I was using before. And the two-finger scrolling track pad is the bee's knees!

Take care,

Steve

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Guest wrote:
Mac asses!

Hmm...insightful...

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Small White Car wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
As a long time user of a PowerBook, I have a question. What's a desktop computer? Sounds like an immobile overgrown laptop with a lot of empty space below the plastic shell. What else does it do?

Well, it saves a bit of money. I just looked at the best Powerbook I could buy and the cheapest iMac. (No custom changes to either.)

The Powerbook was $2,700 and the iMac was $1,300. They're pretty close, spec-wise, actually.

Ok, so what do you get for that extra $1,400? Well, by going with the Powerbook you get:

+ Portability
- 60 GB less in your hard drive
- A slower RPM on your hard drive
- A 1.67 ghZ G4 instead of a 1.8 gHz G5 (and the slower bus that goes along with it)
+ A video card that's one number higher
+ A Super Drive

So some things are better and some things are worse. My point is not that the Powerbooks aren't really cool...they are...but that if you look at the list, MOST of that extra $1,400 you're spending is going towards that first item: Portability.

I have no problem spending an extra $1,400 to gain portability. It's a useful feature. But I can not understand spending $1,400 for a feature I wouldn't use. And if your laptop is simply acting like a desktop, you're not using the one feature that you spent the most money on.

At the risk of beating this point to death, Mr. Car does have a point which I certainly considered in my purchase. The iMac G5 is mighty tasty, and the 20" model is, I think, a steal at that price — the gorgeous monitor alone is a sight to behold, let alone the zippy processor and all the built-in wireless. And as you point out, it's substantially cheaper than the PB! So yes, granted, I paid a premium for portability, but for what I need these days, I feel good about the choice.

Take care,

Steve

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rebbi wrote:

I got the laptop because while the PB does sit on my desk a good deal, when I need the portability, it really makes a difference in my life. Last night I needed to file some tax forms on line — how nice to be able to do that hanging out in bed with the computer in my lap, hooked up via Airport, rather than "chained" to my desk.

See, you actually USE the portability, though. So good for you!

I've known people who buy laptops and NEVER take them off their desks. I think that's kind of dumb. If you move it around then you're making use of it...there's nothing wrong with that!

In comparing a low end imac with a top of the line powerbook and evaluating the "premium for portability" what most in this discussion ignore is is that many, if not most people, don't use their computers for a whole lot more than web surfing, im-ing, email, word-processing, music downloading and playing, and perhaps and such (if your a serious gamer, you're not buying a powerbook anyway). All of which can be more than competently done on an ibook. So when they look for a "desktop replacement" they really aren't looking, and don't need, to replace the power and features of a desktop machine - just something that does enough to meet their needs with the added benefit of portability - and that can be done for the same price as a low end imac - by buying an ibook - the "premium for portability" will be giving up power and features they really don't need or use.

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Anonymous wrote:
In comparing a low end imac with a top of the line powerbook and evaluating the "premium for portability" what most in this discussion ignore is is that many, if not most people, don't use their computers for a whole lot more than web surfing, im-ing, email, word-processing, music downloading and playing, and perhaps and such (if your a serious gamer, you're not buying a powerbook anyway). All of which can be more than competently done on an ibook. So when they look for a "desktop replacement" they really aren't looking, and don't need, to replace the power and features of a desktop machine - just something that does enough to meet their needs with the added benefit of portability - and that can be done for the same price as a low end imac - by buying an ibook - the "premium for portability" will be giving up power and features they really don't need or use.

I actually agree with you for most uses, as you say. But then when I sit down to edit video in iMovie, I really appreciate on the PB how transitions render really, really quickly — quicker than they would on an iBook, nice as it is. Furthermore, the PB actually makes Entourage pop — it was a real slug on my old machine.

YMMV, of course. [/img]

*Personally*, I dipped my toe in to the Applw world with a 12" iBook a couple of years ago as I was in the marked for a new machine, but had never used a mac. If I'd had my fingers burnt, well I could put it down to experience and move on without losing a fortune.

Now though, I still have my 12" but *do* use it as a desktop replacement by marrying it to a 17" tft and using Screen Doctor (which gives me 1280 x 1024 I think), which works a treat.

I still think I've got the best of both worlds (portability & larger screen). My problem is that even though it all works well, I'm a gadget freak and can't make my mind up as to what to go for next. 12"PB? G5 PM? Wait for macintel?

Answers on a postcard please...

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rebbi wrote:

At the risk of beating this point to death, Mr. Car does have a point which I certainly considered in my purchase. The iMac G5 is mighty tasty, and the 20" model is, I think, a steal at that price — the gorgeous monitor alone is a sight to behold, let alone the zippy processor and all the built-in wireless. And as you point out, it's substantially cheaper than the PB! So yes, granted, I paid a premium for portability, but for what I need these days, I feel good about the choice.

Take care,

Steve

As a recent purchaser of a 20" iMac G5, I'll echo your sentiments - it's a terrific computer for the price, especially with educational discounts.