Bluetooth and WiFi are built in the two higher models.

The Mac mini lineup now includes three models.

The Mac mini is still a bad deal for back to school. Instead of just a processor, you can get a faster complete system with monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse for about 1/3 of what you'll end up paying for a complete Mac mini system. Still only for iLemmings.

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RealityCheck wrote:
The Mac mini is still a bad deal for back to school. Instead of just a processor, you can get a faster complete system with monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse for about 1/3 of what you'll end up paying for a complete Mac mini system. Still an iLemmings system.

Here is the proof that the Mac Mini is a bad deal http://news.com.com/Security+holes+add+up+in+second+quarter/2100-1002_3-5803078.html?part=rss&tag=5803078&subj=news

I usually ignore RC, but would like to see a link to this $299 Smelly Dell with 17" monitor. Wipe the hard drive, install a halfway decent OS like Linux or FreeBSD, and it might be fairly useful.

Here is the proof that the Mac Mini is a bad deal http://news.com.com/Security+holes+add+up+in+second+quarter/2100-1002_3-5803078.html?part=rss&tag=5803078&subj=news

This link does not say anything about the Mac Mini? What are you getting at?

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phkn69 wrote:
Here is the proof that the Mac Mini is a bad deal http://news.com.com/Security+holes+add+up+in+second+quarter/2100-1002_3-5803078.html?part=rss&tag=5803078&subj=news

This link does not say anything about the Mac Mini? What are you getting at?

What I am getting at is no matter inexpensive the Windows system is there is a price to pay. Reality Check, our resident troll, usually has some "proof" link in his posts to show how much better a Windows is better than Macintosh.

God start RC, but don't mention that you get "shared memory" which will really be great for university students. Then remember that it will have the neutered XP - not XP Pro. (OS X only comes in one Pro level so add the costs of XP Pro to the Dull.)

Now add the money and time to try to keep it healthy. Virus protection, spyware protection, worms? You get the starter kits for free - then comes the annual payments. Also don't forget that protection against a virus is only developed after the virus hits the wild.

Hate to say it, but it's not cheap to go to university. There is a lot investment in money and time and having a major paper lost because of a disease or the famous blue screen can generate a financial loss greater than your Dull will save you. Let's not even think about Dull's tech support that will suggest you reinstall Windows for any minor fault. Doesn't work when you are on a tight schedule to get a paper or project in.

You also forgot the free iPod mini that can be set as a back up hard drive if you don't like music - throw that into your calculations. You can also spend about $8 a month for .Mac for off site back up of important papers, research etc. as well as posting pictures for family & friends.

Since dorm rooms are small add the fact that you will be updating the cheap monitor to a flat screen, and upgrading the mouse. (Actually, you'll probably upgrade the memory on both the Dull and Mac so that's an even trade off.)

Going away to school? Gonna take pictures with the digital camera? Compare iPhoto the the crap on the Dull. Might even be able to borrow some rich kids digital movie camera and use the Mac to send the folks a Quicktime movie.

I won't even mention the joys for parents of iSight chats. I had an iSight chat with my wife while on a business trip to Korea and it was like I was in the same town. But people who want to get the cheapest don't concern themselves about how much parents will miss their kids during the college years.

I'm sure you are happy with your $299 Dull - just don't wish that misery on others.

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RealityCheck wrote:
The Mac mini is still a bad deal for back to school. Instead of just a processor, you can get a faster complete system with monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse for about 1/3 of what you'll end up paying for a complete Mac mini system. Still only for iLemmings.

Ahh, yes...the mythical $299 Dell PC. Let's take a look at that, shall we?

256MB shared RAM (btw your 400MHz DDR RAM runs at 266MHz with Celerons). But the Mini now comes with 512MB, so let's bump up the RAM...Oh wait! You can't! If you want more RAM, you have to step "up" to the Dimension 3000. So let's do that (+$100). We'll take away the monitor to make it more even (-$50). BTW...the keyboard and mouse they give you are worth about $20, so we'll remove that. Speakers? Those are $10 at Target.

XP Home? I don't think so. Pro is more comparable to OS X. Cha ching.

Firewire? Riiight. Add that too.

Now, how about a "productivity suite" like Appleworks? Oh, wait! Doesn't come with one! have to add that on. (and still no e-mail capability, btw)

Warranty? 90 days? Apple gives you a year. Need to add that on.

An actual CD with a backup of XP Pro? Not a chance. You have to pay for that too.

AV and anti-spyware? Didn't add that in, but if you are buying this boat-anchor, you probably aren't aware that you need it. Otherwise add a subscription fee of $79. (there goes the difference between the parts the Dell has and the parts the Mini doesn't)

You are now up to $516 with the bits added and removed (after the discount, btw) ($595 if you get the AV and AS subscriptions). And this is to get it comparable to the BASE Mini. But you still have shared RAM for the graphics. No iMovieHD, no GarageBand, does include PhotoAlbum SE Basic (how does this compare to iPhoto?), no Quicken (comes with the Mini), no 3rd party games (comes with Mini) (solitaire and freecell don't count).

Such a deal.

Seriously, a member of my extended family, a devoted Windows guy, has had miserable experiences with them. He bought his daughter an Inspirion laptop with what was supposed to be a 4 year, on-site service extended warranty for her college use. One morning, the thing refused to boot — dead as as doornail. She called tech support. She got “Harold,” who had a suspicious, New Delhi accent. He told her that she’d need to get out a screwdriver and crack the case open and “run some diagnostics” to see what was wrong, before they’d consider sending a technician out. (Turns out you have to buy from their Latitude (business) line to get that kind of service.) His daughter said, “I’m a music major, I don’t own a screwdriver, my father paid big bucks for an extended warranty, so do something.” In the end, her dad spent the equivalent of a couple of working days on the phone with Dell (at some point actually getting to speak to someone in the Continental United States) and after threatening to tell the IT person at his business that they should stop buying Dell products, they took care of my niece’s computer. If you poke around online, you’ll find myriad stories of people complaining bitterly about Dell’s crummy tech support.

YMMV, of course.

Well sure, the basic Dell system with a crippled Celeron processor does show $299 as the price tag, but once you add more RAM to match the 512 MB that comes with the mini (oops they don't offer an option to expand beyond 256 MB) a 3-year warranty for an additional $129 (the included warranty is 90 days!), Microsoft Office Basic for $149 (AppleWorks and iLife come with the mini) and Norton Internet Security for $79, the total comes to a whopping $656!

The top end spec is great but to upgrade to 1Gb is a wopping $175. Am I right in thinking that is a lot of money

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Anonymous wrote:
The top end spec is great but to upgrade to 1Gb is a wopping $175. Am I right in thinking that is a lot of money

Yup. Get a 1 GB chip from www.crucial.com for about $120.

Plus you'll get to keep the 512 chip that you remove from the mini and use it for something else!

Exactly. I think they need to drop it definately!!

There's not much to this "update," aside from the sorely needed increased minimum RAM. Looks like no changes to the motherboard at all, just a repackaging of options. Although it does represent a price reduction for certain configurations.

No one seems to have noticed that they made the modem an option in all but the base configuration.

Moderators: It would be nice if replies to RC were automatically closed/compressed so we don't have to read a bunch of useless drival. The folks who reply to RC are as boring as (and have nothing any more intelligent to say than) RC herself.

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Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. I think they need to drop it definately!!

Apple RAM has always been expensive and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

As long as I can still put my own in I don't mind too much.

They HAVE gotten a little better, at least. $120 to $175 is about a 45% increase. Apple RAM used to cost about twice as much as other RAM, in other words, a 100% increase.

So yeah, they should do better, you're right, but it looks like they're doing a little better than they used to, at least.

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Small White Car wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
The top end spec is great but to upgrade to 1Gb is a wopping $175. Am I right in thinking that is a lot of money

Yup. Get a 1 GB chip from www.crucial.com for about $120.

Plus you'll get to keep the 512 chip that you remove from the mini and use it for something else!

Or an even better deal from NewEgg.

I wonder whether you could order an empty RAM slot and buy your own RAM and fit it yourself

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Anonymous wrote:
Or an even better deal from NewEgg.

How are they? I know crucial sells high-quality RAM that has a lower failure rate than some brands. $20 is not enough of a savings to risk bad RAM.

That doesn't mean newegg is bad, I've just never ordered from them before is all. Have you ordered from them before? Everything work out?

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Anonymous wrote:
I wonder whether you could order an empty RAM slot and buy your own RAM and fit it yourself

No, but if you buy your Mac from a 3rd party dealer you MIGHT be able to buy a 1 GB upgrade for less than upgrading it yourself. The 3rd party dealer would be able to sell the RAM it came with and so they might not charge you for it.

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Small White Car wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Or an even better deal from NewEgg.

How are they? I know crucial sells high-quality RAM that has a lower failure rate than some brands. $20 is not enough of a savings to risk bad RAM.

That doesn't mean newegg is bad, I've just never ordered from them before is all. Have you ordered from them before? Everything work out?

I've used Newegg several times. Never a problem. Great prices, good service. definitely a recommend.

One word in the Dell Specs kills it.

Celeron.

Doesn't even make it on to the Systems Shootouts page

http://www.systemshootouts.org/processors.html

Say no more.

Far be it for me to defend a troll, but here he's not entirely wrong.

Mind you, it isn't a Dell system but my girlfriend just bought a system as a gift for a friend of ours. After rebates, tax, etc she just bought a Compaq system for $430 from Staples.

That system has 512MB of PC2700 RAM, an AMD Sempron 3000+, 160GB hard drive, a dual layer DVD-RW, a 17" CRT, keyboard, speakers, AND an HP 3845 printer. It had 6 USB ports, 1 firewire 400 port, 100MB ethernet, 56k modem, and even a parallel port.

And yes, it had XP Home. And trial software with the typical compaq/hp flufware, all of which I removed.

However: It also came with some 25 games, MS Works and Quicken. There were other minor software programs too that I can't remember.

For AV I downloaded Microsoft's excellent Anti-Spyware program (for free). It schedules its own runs and own updates automatically. I turned on the Windows firewall and I downloaded Bit Defender as a free AV program. That does not require a yearly subscription, the updates are also free.

This computer will be on ADSL so there's a hardware NAT router guarding its back.

All in all, one heck of a deal if you ask me. Oh, and if I hear one more post about Garage Band I'm going to scream. How many of us have the ability to take advantage of that program? Hmm?

So this computer *system* and software was $430. That compares very favorably with the $499 base Mini. Remember this system had a good monitor and a decent printer.

I guess even a troll can be right once in a while...

Troll Smoll! Realty Check is always right!

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Guest wrote:
There's not much to this "update," aside from the sorely needed increased minimum RAM. Looks like no changes to the motherboard at all, just a repackaging of options. Although it does represent a price reduction for certain configurations.

No one seems to have noticed that they made the modem an option in all but the base configuration.

Moderators: It would be nice if replies to RC were automatically closed/compressed so we don't have to read a bunch of useless drival. The folks who reply to RC are as boring as (and have nothing any more intelligent to say than) RC herself.

Yippee! Finally somebody used the word "drivel"! Who knew we had such highly educated individuals gracing TMO with their presence? All we need is for someone to say "tripe" and it'll really be a party! Guest perhaps you could thrill us with some anecdotes from the last Harvard Club meeting!

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Roger Plowman wrote:
Far be it for me to defend a troll, but here he's not entirely wrong.

Mind you, it isn't a Dell system but my girlfriend just bought a system as a gift for a friend of ours. After rebates, tax, etc she just bought a Compaq system for $430 from Staples....

...So this computer *system* and software was $430. That compares very favorably with the $499 base Mini. Remember this system had a good monitor and a decent printer.

I guess even a troll can be right once in a while...

You should set up a blog so we can see how many times she calls you asking if you can come over and fix something or download a driver or something.

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Roger Plowman wrote:
That system has 512MB of PC2700 RAM, an AMD Sempron 3000+, 160GB hard drive, a dual layer DVD-RW, a 17" CRT, keyboard, speakers, AND an HP 3845 printer. It had 6 USB ports, 1 firewire 400 port, 100MB ethernet, 56k modem, and even a parallel port.

Even a parallel port? Oh man, if it also comes with a floppy, then this thing would be seriously SWEET!

I just got a new iMac delivered today, and the search for another GB fo RAm begins.

I've seen several places claim their RAM is configured specifically for Macs. Soudns like BS to me. Anybody know if there's any validity to such a claim?

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acdc1174 wrote:

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Small White Car wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Or an even better deal from NewEgg.

How are they? I know crucial sells high-quality RAM that has a lower failure rate than some brands. $20 is not enough of a savings to risk bad RAM.

That doesn't mean newegg is bad, I've just never ordered from them before is all. Have you ordered from them before? Everything work out?

I've used Newegg several times. Never a problem. Great prices, good service. definitely a recommend.

Go to Crucial.com and look up the RAM for your model. Write down all the specs. Then go to newegg.com and find all the RAM with those specs. Usually you can find one that has a good price and a large number of 5 star reviews from customers. That's your sweet spot. Add to cart!

I wish your friend all the luck in the world with her inexpensive PC but I think up keep and operating cost will still be far cheeper on a mini mac when you consider actual usable lifetime. A friend of mine uses primarily HP/ Compac PC's in his business. Of 4 HP/Compac that he has owned two have had critical hard drive failures and one had a system memory failure and this is on an isolated network before the proliferation of viruses and worms. Caveat Emptor aka you get what you pay for.

That's exactly what I did. I'm just concerned that my RAM isn't "specially configured for Mac." I know that's probably BS, but living through the 90s, when nothing but Mac-stuff worked on Macs, I'm still a bit wary.

Hence my question: is there any validity to this claim of RAM being "Specially Mac Configured?"

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Biff wrote:
Go to Crucial.com and look up the RAM for your model. Write down all the specs. Then go to newegg.com and find all the RAM with those specs. Usually you can find one that has a good price and a large number of 5 star reviews from customers. That's your sweet spot. Add to cart!

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Anonymous wrote:


Hence my question: is there any validity to this claim of RAM being "Specially Mac Configured?"

Well, no, that terms doesn't really mean anything. But that doesn't mean it's meaningless.

They probably mean that they've actually tested their RAM with the Mac model you say you have. So no, you don't need a special kind of RAM for the Mac, but at the same time it's good to know they've tested it.

But yeah, any site that says they guarantee that their RAM will work with a Mac is just as good as the one that claims it's "Mac Configured." I think it's all marketing talk for "Will Work With Macs." Nothing more and nothing less.

"The Mac mini is still a bad deal for back to school. Instead of just a processor, you can get a faster complete system with monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse for about 1/3 of what you'll end up paying for a complete Mac mini system. Still an iLemmings system."

I guess you didn't take a look at the system specs for the Dell 2400, Reality Check. If you had, there's no way you could call it a better deal than a Mac Mini. Check the facts:

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_2400?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~tab=specstab#tabtop

The Dimension 2400 does NOT come standard with 512MB of RAM. It comes standard with 256MB of RAM, and I remember the many , many times you've said that 256MB of RAM is ridiculously obsolete, these days. Whoops.

It also comes with the near-worthless integrated Intel Extreme 3D Graphics. The Mac Mini has a better integrated 3D accelerator, making it the more powerful gaming system, ironically.

I don't know what your point about harddrive size was, because both the Mini and the Dimension 2400 come with a maximum capacity of 80GB. No difference there.

Then of course, the Dimension 2400 comes standard with an ancient read-only 48x CD-ROM drive, while the Mini comes standard with a combination DVD/CD-RW drive.

No wonder the Dimension's cheaper than the Mac Mini. The Mac Mini's a better machine.

"For AV I downloaded Microsoft's excellent Anti-Spyware program"

Excellent? AdAware's many times more competent.

"I guess even a troll can be right once in a while..."

He was talking about a Dell Dimension 2400, which he was obviously wrong about if anyone bothers to compare the specs between it and a Mac Mini.

You're talking about a totally different computer that isn't even made by Dell.

What's the relation?

I use linux so don't care.

But shared memory on a PC is not an issue. The memory bus and controller has much more capacity than on the mini. Also the amount of data required for a 1024x768 in 32bit colour is nothing (in 2D).

Second. Does anyone understand the Pro vs Home difference? The pro has features for AD integration and management. Of no use to a small single PC not in a corporate edition. So there is no need to "Upgrade the "dull" <- (get a life tossers).

I use both PC and Mac and I am sick of windows trolls and ignorant Mac users who do not know about architecture sprouting off shite. Also the issue of virii - I won't even bother to go into.

I have a new PB 15Inch on the way. Will install PPC Ubuntu on it - run the few OSX apps that I need in maconlinux and be sweet.

Only thing sucky about macs (and new PC laptops) is that they have no serial port - how can I do console management? :-\

Serial port?!? You don't even need a serial port to do remote debugging of the Windows kernel! You can do that over firewire!

You're not making a very good case for your so-called superior OS configuration. But hey, whatever floats yer boat.

The "Superior One" has spoken. We can all go home now.

It's onyl a matter of time in any thread of any length before some (probably liar) comes in and announces that everyone else is an idiot, and he can prove it, because he uses Linux on (gasp) BOTH platforms....AND with obscure distros!!!

Get a life, fella.

"But shared memory on a PC is not an issue. "

The hell it isn't. Do you even know what shared memory is?


"Also the issue of virii - I won't even bother to go into. "

If you won't, I will. Windows has over 70,000 viruses, OS X has zero. What's so hard about that?

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Anonymous wrote:
"But shared memory on a PC is not an issue. "

The hell it isn't. Do you even know what shared memory is?

It's not. I feel much better with shared memory on a PC than an anemic years-old, integrated graphics chipset on a Mac.

"It's not. I feel much better with shared memory on a PC than an anemic years-old, integrated graphics chipset on a Mac."

Integrated graphics chipsets? Uh. Computers have come with integrated graphics chipsets for a very long time, now. When was the last time you've seen a modern computer that needs an SVGA card installed because its motherboard can't output graphics on its own?

Or did the mean integrated 3D accelerator? That's funny. Because shared memory is used ONLY for anemic, years-old integrated 3D accelerators.

In otherwords, any PC using shared memory has inferior 3D performance to a Mac Mini. This is because the integrated 3D accelerators that come with shared-memory PCs are rinky-dink pieces of underpowered junk that obviously don't even have RAM of their own, while the integrated 3D accelerators that come with the low-end Macs are actually special integrated versions of actual ATI/NVidia 3D accelerator cards that come with RAM of their own.

This isn't even taking into account that fact that a shared-memory PC will always have less RAM available than a Mac that has same amount of memory installed.

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Anonymous wrote:
"It's not. I feel much better with shared memory on a PC than an anemic years-old, integrated graphics chipset on a Mac."

Integrated graphics chipsets? Uh. Computers have come with integrated graphics chipsets for a very long time, now. When was the last time you've seen a modern computer that needs an SVGA card installed because its motherboard can't output graphics on its own?

Or did the mean integrated 3D accelerator? That's funny. Because shared memory is fine.

In otherwords, any powerful PC needs to be bigger than a 3 CD tall Mac Mini. This is because the rinky-dink pieces of underpowered junk low-end Macs are actually SPAM cans of their own.

This isn't even taking into account that fact that a shared-memory PC can exceed 64 MB of RAM while a Mac can't even use virtual memory.