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Apple Eliminates Forum Mods; Quality Drops, Rudeness & Piracy Increases

TMO Reports - Apple Eliminates Forum Mods; Quality Drops, Rudeness & Piracy Increases

by , 2:20 PM EDT, July 28th, 2006

Apple Computer has terminated its Apple Discussions Hosts, the forum moderators that monitor and moderate the company's user discussion boards. A source involved with Apple Discussions, speaking on condition of anonymity, told The Mac Observer that management at Apple has questioned the value of the discussion boards. The end result, however, has been a marked decrease in the quality of discussions, and an increase in everything from rudeness to instructions on pirating music and software.

Apple Discussions are used by Mac, iPod, and other Apple software users to discuss issues they have with their Apple products. The boards have heretofore been moderated by Apple staff members, called Hosts, who answer questions and otherwise moderate the discussion (for instance, deleting rude and unruly posts reported by highly ranked volunteers).

Apple Discussions have long been a source for its customers to find solutions to their problems, and the vast majority of posts are how-tos and problem/solution threads. According to TMO's source, some within the company fear that losing its staff of mods will result in Apple having less of a direct interface with its customers.

"We know that Apple will have far fewer eyes to spot real problems," said our source, "or to moderate the actions of those who have unproductive agendas."

Discussion Quality Drops

Be that as it may, the actual result of having laid off the Hosts is a marked downturn in the quality of many posts, and growing dissent from the ranks of the many volunteers who provide the bulk of the peer-to-peer help that make up the boards.

"The forums have become unruly since all the forum moderators were laid off," wrote member Nikki in the "Feedback About Apple Discussion" forum. "It is unfortunate that whomever is in charge, and their management, does not recognize what these forums have contributed in the past, and what they've lost by the decision to let go a team of support professionals that were extremely dedicated to improving Apple's customer support."

"The forums have declined to such a state that they are certainly a disgrace to the Apple Corporation," added member Old Toad. "I don't know if any of the upper echelon from Apple ever visit, but they should. They would get a rude awaking."

The thread in which these comments were posted is filled with dozens of such comments from the highest ranked volunteer posters intended for Apple representatives to see. They cite numerous examples of insults and other rude behavior, as well as discussions about pirating Windows, music, and other software (at least one user has offered pirated software directly to other users).

A marked increase in profanity and other lowest-common denominator behavior is also being seen, all of which was once the domain of the small cadre of Hosts who maintained the peace in the forums. Without official comment from Apple -- the company declined to comment for the story -- it is impossible to know how the company views this issue, or what its plans are for the future of Apple Discussions.

Corporate Watchdogs

On the curious side, the lack of Hosts with moderation powers has not only resulted in a swift breakdown in etiquette and order, it has also deprived Apple of the official eyes that swept the boards of posts and threads that Apple's corporate side wanted gone.

Hosts have occasionally eliminated entire threads of complaints Apple had not yet acknowledged. While it has never been clear if the intent was to specifically squelch complaints, such deletions have sparked occasional charges of censorship or cover-ups from customers, the Mac press, and occasionally even the mainstream press.

For Apple, a company known for its strict controls over company image and company message, the elimination of its Hosts leaves the corporation with little control over a support forum used by an ever-increasing number of customers. iPod, iTunes, and even Boot Camp are bringing more and more people from outside the Mac user base to Apple's world, and there are no official eyes looking at their needs, or watching what they are saying.

Observer Comments

Show: Subjects Only | Full Comments
Close Name:bryson Posts: 79 Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Subject: A shame

Quite a shame since the discussion boards are the only place I've personally ever been able to find the answer to a problem. The standard help sections are useless.

Close Name:Lynch Posts: 3 Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Subject: I have to agree with bryson . . .

The discussion forums are the first place I turn to for the difficult questions. I hope that Apple sees the lost value and reverses their decision.

Close Name:ireid2k Posts: 125 Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Subject: Just Sad

I'm not too sure I understand this, there was no official reason for firing the Moderators from Apple? Did the breakdown in 'etiquette' happen soon after? or did it start before? warranting the firing of the mods?

In the end its Apple doing what it does best, screwing the customer . . . when they don't like people making comments against their 'hallowed' products they try to squelsh them. . . typical big business response. . .

I have gotten LOTS of help fom those discussions boards in the past, people with similar experiences is a gold mine of information for someone trying to fix their own problem. . .

Close Name:lantzn Posts: 2 Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Subject: Socked

Wow I've been a Mac user since 87. I do a lot of support for many Mac users. I'm pretty good at troubleshooting, but when I get really stumped, I've usually found the answer in these Apple Discussion forums. This is a bad move.

Close Name:DunsfordMage Posts: 3 Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Subject:

The thread that Nikki commented in has now been removed

Close Name:Bosco Posts: 1002 Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Subject: Looks like a business opportunity

Bryan, could this be a business opportunity for the TMO discussion boards? We have more experts here than have ever been pooled in one place. You could totally monetize it, dude.

Close Name:Engine Joe Posts: 413 Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Subject:

Quote
Bosco wrote:
Bryan, could this be a business opportunity for the TMO discussion boards? We have more experts here than have ever been pooled in one place. You could totally monetize it, dude.


I love these boards, but in my experience troubleshooting problems, the boards at AppleInsider and AppleNova have more experts on fixing Mac problems than TMO.

Still, this could be an opportunity to seek some out and bring more onboard here - perhaps disgruntled Apple Support Forums users. That would really kick things up a notch here.

Close Name:dhp Posts: 182 Joined: 22 May 2003
Subject: good article

How refreshing to read an original, interesting, and--most importantly--relevant article on a Mac site. One more reason to delete MacDailyNews from my RSS aggregator.

Close Name:coaten Posts: 3071 Joined: 10 Oct 2001
Subject:

It's a very bad move. Very, very bad. Very, very, very bad.

Very, very... you get the idea.

Close Name:Bosco Posts: 1002 Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Subject: TMO is Numero Uno!

Quote
Engine Joe wrote:
I love these boards, but in my experience troubleshooting problems, the boards at AppleInsider and AppleNova have more experts on fixing Mac problems than TMO.


I dunno Engine Joe. We have everything needed to be an effective Apple support channel here... Apple fanboys, AAPL fanboys, Microsoft haters, MSFT haters, Steve Balmer haters, Bill Gates haters, Steve Jobs worshippers, ex-Apple employees who write articles far too serious and and insightful for this crowd, struggling fiction writers who get inside the head of Steve Jobs, one court jester (me), and a public kicking bag (Biff). How can you beat that?

Close Name:DunsfordMage Posts: 3 Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Subject:

Follow up thread now started:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=578293&tstart=0

Close Name:Anklosaur Posts: 1 Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Subject:

Quote
DunsfordMage wrote:
Follow up thread now started:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=578293&tstart=0



Ugh. Deleted.

Close Name:swisswuff Posts: 1 Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Subject:

I think it is very important for there to be Apple Discussion groups. Whether Apple hosts them, moderates them, has employees contribute or not is something they have to decide. I don't think they necessarily need to comment on each and every issue, but they shouldn't delete stuff.

As long as Apple computers cost more than other computers of similar hardware specification, I do expect them to "offer more" than other companies. Then, employees contributing SENSIBLE content (which isnt' always the case) are what I'd expect of a company charging more AND delivering more.

However, all of that isn't necessary. In some instances that I came across some more serious problems, no Apple representative could possibly have helped in a discussion forum. The first problem of that type were two consecutive shipments of a 2.0 and then a 2.5 GHz G5 dual processor machine, both Dead On Arrival. The second issue was a 'crackling noise iPod mini', where Apple representatives couldn't possibly admit what I have no problem stating after rearranging parts and fixing the issue: it's an inherent design problem. The third issue is the one of 'narcoleptic Powerbook G4s' due to broken trackpad temperature sensors, where any Apple involvement would equal to admitting something'd be wrong. In any case, an employee would possibly make the Apple company vulnerable to lawsuits, or to extension of warranty requests that would be entirely justified, but costly.

On the 'narcoleptic Powerbook G4' issue, recently, a technical fix follow-up got deleted, possibly by an administrator. This means that Apple may not have been happy with what they read. Such involvement proves that they are not cool with other people fixing their hardware, and they are not cool with technically sound tips for going about design flaws that were produced at Apple.

So I think there's a reason Apple employees shouldn't mess with the really interesting, intriguing design problems that plague Apple products. First of all, "they" are responsible and ultimately liable - even though they don't like to hear it. Secondly, they are maybe not 'cool' about people discussing things, because in every company, the 'quick and dirty' versus 'perfectionist' discussions are likely hot, heated, and controversial - and why should Apple be an exception. Last but not least, Apple has a whole bunch of these problems and not just one or two within 6 years.

In other words, I think they have no business messing with the interactions of people who (a) buy, and (b) fix the stuff Apple built They have one business only: read our posts, learn from them, issue official technical fixes and technical documents as much as they can, issue official warranty extensions and replacement programs, and build better products. There's no other output I ask from Apple employees than to be as professional as they can. It's not hard having such attentive users as us

Close Name:fever Posts: 1 Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Subject: Interesting comment re deleting posts

I also asked the question about the forum staff in the Discussions feedback forum. My post was deleted within a day. Vanished completely...

Close Name:NS724 Posts: 1 Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Subject: Apple may not need them

but it seems Microsoft wants them!

http://blogs.msdn.com/jledgard/archive/2006/08/02/686635.aspx

Wouldn't that be a kicker.

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