First off I am one of those without a lot of HDTV knowledge, though that is changing as I educate myself about the subject. However, I have some questions that someone here might be able to answer.

1. Will cable TV still deliver analog NTSC signals?

2. Will all over the air TV broadcasts stop or will digital signals take its place?

A few months ago I "upgraded" my cable TV service to digital when they dropped analog broadcast of MultiPLEX, one of my favorite channels. HBO ended a few weeks later. The gave me a year of digital service with 3 boxes for the same price as my old cable service. The new deal includes 3 premium "PAKs" so I got HBO, and Digital Movie PAK with included Plex and the indie channels, sports PAK for my son.

I do not yet have an HDTV set, probably next, but the digital signal is better than what I was getting with analog. At first I was get pixellating a lot and the tech recommended I get new cable splitters which fixed the problem.

Edison,

I too am confused.
And if we are, then what about people who "just watch TV" and don't really pay any attention to this.
Anyone who works for a TV broadcaster should be scheduling a vacation day for February 17, 2009.

,dave

Much confusion. The main confusion being: Digital TV does not necessarily mean HDTV. HDTV is a subset of Digital TV.

Analog TV being broadcast over the air is the only thing that is stopping. While there may be many households with analog TV reception over the air, this doesn't affect anyone with cable TV or satellite (which is already digital). Analog cable will continue, although the cable companies would dearly love to kill it off. Of course, they're not willing to charge less for digital cable, so....

In any case, there is no mandate for HDTV, and analog cable ain't disappearing at the same time. Standard resolution NTSC also is NOT disappearing.

Quote

Edison Carter wrote:


2. Will all over the air TV broadcasts stop or will digital signals take its place?

OTA analog broadcasts will stop on or before February 17, 2009. In most markets, OTA digital broadcasts have already commenced. The bulk of primetime OTA broadcasting is already HDTV.

OTA HDTV signals are, of course, free and of unexcelled quality--noticeably superior to "HDTV" signals from the cable or satellite providers.

Digital OTA broadcasting changes everything.

only ota(over the air) analog will stop.

but in the coming years more and more programming will be 16x9(widescreen), so old tv sets and hd sets which are 4:3 aspect ratio will "suck" since the will show letterboxed widescreen programming.

DTV(digtalTV) includes SDTV and HDTV(480i up to 1080i), mpeg2 HD is over the air, cable and satellite will be mpeg4, much more compressed(not necessarily lesser quality, but dish and direcTV don't do full 720p or 1080i resolution, so OTA HD is the best HD possible right now, min 20% better, max 50% better than other sources).

OTA Hd is free and of very good quality when in HD resolution, but a lot of content is still SDTV up-converted to HDTV(720p(ABC,FOX) and 1080i(CBS,NBC,CW and PBS). PBS HD actually has the most HD programming, the big networks do most of their primetime programming in HD, unfortunately the local news are mostly in SDTV 4:3, i know only ABC7 in los angeles broadcasting OTA HD news to us consumers, all the other channels and markets do their news in SD....(which sux)...

i hope i could help a little;-)

Analog over the cables WILL CEASE as well, as opposed to the previous poster who thinks analog will continue through cable. It will ALL be digital, though not neccessarily High Def. Anolog to Digital converters will be provided for free to those who don't want to upgrade their TVs.
The question is....will the providers of content - that will have a fixed portion of the digital bandwith - progressively lose the standard def channels and replace them with High def? Right now they are wasting bandwith (for the sake of revenue) by having both high-def and standard def channels for a lot of local and basic cable channels. I hope they phase out standard definition as soon as possible as there already isn't enough bandwith for 100% HD as it stands now. A converter could possibly also be involved for people who don't have high def equipment to "Down Convert" the HD to standard. This would help lower the prices of HD in general as HD is obviously the future.
Now, if the cable companies could provide 1080p, we'd really be talking!! d

Europe: DTV - Digital Terrestrial Television - Replaces standard Analog broadcasts. DTV sets are as inexpensive as standard TVs. HDTV is avalable, but is a premium service.

United State: HDTV replaces analog NTSC broadcasts, but there are multiple "standards" including 480i, 720i, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p (the latest). Most HDTV broadcasts are currently in 720p wth a few in 1080i. Cable and Satellite digital broadcasts show unacceptable compression artifacts because of the compression needed to fit HDTV signals into their existing hardware limits.

The deadline to move to HDTV was 2006, but broadcasters were not ready. Now, the deadline is 2009. I hope someone sues the government in name of the poor consumer who is goign to get royally screwed in 2009.

question 1. Will cable TV still deliver analog NTSC signals?

yes and no, ur cable box has analog and digital outputs, the analog is NTSC, the digital is DTV, so you would be foolish to continue the analog path, but you can internally if you want to;-)

2. Will all over the air TV broadcasts stop or will digital signals take its place?

digital will take it's place, most markets already have all channels in DTV(HDTV incl.) present. (NYC, LA, SFC, ATL, MIA and all the other big market have all channels in digital and analog, so a lot of bandwith is wasted on the analog channels OTA... also the DTv channels have 1-5 channels in one frequency. one analog channel eats up the same bandiwth as a bouquet of up to 5 DTV channels, ABC los angeles for example transmits 3 channels in their DTV signal, ABC, ABCnews and ABC weather...


so the DTV is clearly a huge plus for the consumer and an incentive to switch ASAP. most people don't even know that this is going on and that the OTA DTV is free of charge. so in that matter i 110% have to agree with the article and that the industry has done a VERY poor job (i could use stronger words) in advertising the benefits of digtal TV, by the way, in north america the DTV signal is called ATSC, in the rest of the world (europe, australia) it's called DVB-T(digital video broadcast-terrestrial(not used in the USA(unfortunately)) S stands for satellite (DVB-S, also used in the USA) and C stands for cable (DVB-C, also used in the USA))... just trying to give some knowledge to us readers;-)

deasys, I can totally understand where you are coming from with the whole anti-cable company thing. But do you seriously think that many people will get rid of their cable or satellite for what TO THEM would be a minor upgrade in picture quality? Even if they did, the evil cable and satellite providers could simply improve their mpeg4 encoding. Sorry, man.

Also I just want to clarrify (since smokeonit's post might be a bit confusing on this point), that the end of analog broadcast does not mean everything magically becomes HD. Digital OTA broadcasts allow for standard definition resolution. So don't expect everything to be HD right away.

I will buy a digital television when A. They pick a standard, and B. make them affordable.

Quote

smokeonit wrote:
so you would be foolish to continue the analog path, but you can internally if you want to;-)

so the DTV is clearly a huge plus for the consumer and an incentive to switch ASAP.

... just trying to give some knowledge to us readers;-)

Not so fast. DTV is *NOT* a huge plus for the consumer. Why? DIGITAL BROADCAST FLAGS. Want to record a movie from HBO or a sporting event while you are away? Forget it. If there is a digital flag in the signal that says "no record" your compliant equipment will do just that - NOT RECORD IT. There are people I know that are already experiencing this problem with Sony set-top DVD recorders and digital cable. Their DVD recorder will not record certain programs due to digital flagging. This is particularly prevalent with HBO. This garbage is being foisted upon us as the "next great thing". Yeah, it's the next great thing for the content providers, but it's extremely anti-consumer. We can't even time-shift a show if we're not going to be home? RIDICULOUS!

Quote

Guest wrote:
...there are multiple "standards" including 480i, 720i, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p (the latest).

That statement is misleading--those resolutions are all part of one standard, namely the ATSC broadcast standard. All, that is, except 1080p; ATSC supports 1080i. Switching resolutions on an ATSC-equipped television is automatic and instant.

Quote

Most HDTV broadcasts are currently in 720p wth a few in 1080i.

Not true.

NBC, CBS, CW, and some PBS affiliates all broadcast in 1080i. ABC, Fox, and MyTV broadcast in 720p. Folks near the longest undefended border in the world may also be able to pick up the Canadian networks CBC and CTV, both of which broadcast in 1080i.

Quote

Guest wrote:
Yeah, it's the next great thing for the content providers, but it's extremely anti-consumer. We can't even time-shift a show if we're not going to be home? RIDICULOUS!

1. Contact your congresspeople. They're the only ones who can do anything. However, part of the impetus was so that the broadcasters would not have to continue broadcasting two signals.

2. Ever heard of "On demand"? Check to see if your cable or satellite provider offers it.

Also, those with analog TV sets will NOT be left out in the cold. Digital-to-analog converters will be available.


Here's a site that might help understand what's going on. A lot of the whining above is based on misunderstanding/misinformation, or, perhaps, disinformation. From that site:


- Consumers will always be able to connect an inexpensive receiver, a set top box, to their existing analog TV to decode DTV broadcast signals.

- Analog TVs will continue to work with cable, satellite, VCRs, DVD players, camcorders, video games consoles and other devices for many years.

Quote

boric*acid wrote:
I will buy a digital television when A. They pick a standard, and B. make them affordable.

They picked a standard way back in the mid-90s. It's called ATSC.

BTW, you can get real HDTVs in smaller sizes in the $500 range now. Many consider that to be affordable.

Quote

Biff wrote:
deasys, I can totally understand where you are coming from with the whole anti-cable company thing. But do you seriously think that many people will get rid of their cable or satellite for what TO THEM would be a minor upgrade in picture quality?

That, plus not having to dish out $25-100/month for the opportunity to watch commercials... Makes sense to me.

BTW, the upgrade in picture quality is way more than minor--it's jaw-dropping.

The focus of the article is quite accurate. I have a side job as a Sony HDTV rep, traveling from store-to-store educating the regular sales people about Sony's offerings, and I honestly get thoroughly confused by the whole situation. There's a lot to keep track of, especially when you're going to make a purchase. Consider all the factors that consumers have to wade through:


* LCD? Plasma? Rear-projection LCD? Rear-projection DLP? "What about the rear-projection Mitsubishi I bought 3 years ago? They said it was HDTV. Why does my HDTV signal have to be converted to work with it?"
* Monitor or Television? (tuner or just the display?)
* 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
* 16:9, 16:10, 4:3, etc.
* HDMI, composite, component, s-video, coaxial, phono, digital coaxial, optical (which connector?), etc.
* 2 channel, 2.1, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1
* DVD, HD-DVD, blu-ray
* Contrast ratio & glare reduction

In short, there are over 50 unique television models in Sony's current lineup. That's just one manufacturer. And it doesn't even cover the choices of colors for the front bezel.

Obviously it's hard enough to buy a new tv. It's even harder to understand all the different signals that are vs. will be broadcast. The volume of misinformation within this thread alone demonstrates the problem.

There definitely needs to be better education well before the change.


boric*acid: Have you shopped recently? Sure, CRTs are much more affordable than LCDs and such (I just picked up a 20" CRT for my daughter that set me back all of $75, while a 20" LCD was $250), but it's not like a 30" plasma is still ten Large.

Mind you, while you can get a 50-odd inch HDTV for well under a Grand, just like any other period of time, you get what you pay for. $1500-$2000 will get you a much better picture and more complete compatibility.


I am absolutely not trying to sell anyone on Sony here. I think they make a hell of a TV, but I've never much cared for their offerings in other categories (can you say minidisc?) so it's hard to fully support them anywhere. (It's just a contract job I do during my photography off-season.) I simply wanted to illustrate the vast distance between the information that is readily available to consumers and the volume that they need to understand to make an educated decision.

Unfortunately most consumers rely on the guy at BestBuy as the one-and-only source of information about their purchase. But if I didn't work for Sony I'd be in the same boat, as I don't have time to research all of this for myself. Who does?

I'm still baffled as to why anyone is supporting HD-DVD. There are enough big names behind it to convince me that there must be a reason, but as I compare it side-by-side with blu-ray I just don't get it. And I'm supposed to be the guy with the answers.


- Jon

"1. Contact your congresspeople. They're the only ones who can do anything. "

Yes and many of us have new Representatives and Senators which may help this situation. You can also ask them to do something about spam. http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact.shtml

Quote

Edison Carter wrote:
"1. Contact your congresspeople. They're the only ones who can do anything. "

Yes and many of us have new Representatives and Senators which may help this situation. You can also ask them to do something about spam. http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact.shtml

That's why you can't get any straight answers. This television debacle has become a Republicans vs Democrats thing.

With the upcoming change in the Congressional power structure, look for that 2009 date to be revised.

The broadcasters are looking for legislation to prevent their DTV signals from being down converted for redistribution. So will analog NTSC analog signals be allowed out of a cable box?

Why are there different laws for cable and satellite? Why can my local cable company sell me channels that DirecTV is prohibited by law to provide.

Good luck with your congress critter!

--- CHAS

As Jonkun227 points out, there's a lot more to know these days and it can be confusing, even to us geeks.

So when we wanted to replace a TV that was not our main living room TV I saw an opportunity to get in on the new technology. I did my research and if you DO factor in cable, it gets even more confusing.

ATSC, NTSC, QAM64, QAM256 - Clear QAM?

QAM is the cable digital standard. I could not get an answer from the retailers if our local cable sustem had "clear" digital channels or if everything is scrambled. Since the TV was for a room with no cable, I decided it didn't matter.

I did know that I wanted the over the air digital so I made sure it the set had a ATSC tuner. I bought the cheapest rabbit ears Radio Shack had and hooked it up.

We're in a good location and I receive 26 digital channels! (3 PBS stations with 4 or 5 channels each account for a lot if it.)

The picture is MUCH better and the beauty is, if it comes in, it comes in beautifully and if it doesn't, you get nothing. (if it's marginal, the sound and picture drop out annoyingly often).

There are a lot of limitations including the PVR issues (When in my living room, I watch Reply-TV almost exclusively) and I don't have the answers. BUT, what I do get I love and when there is HD content, it really shines.

By the way, the cable company (Time Warner) scrambles ALL digital channels, so we'd have to get a separate box. Ugh!

That being said, if you have digital broadcasts in your area, check it out. It looks mighty good!

What about recording OTA programming? I have only seen one unit from JVC that records OTA HD and it costs close to $1000 and still uses tape.

When will we see OTA DVRs that don't need a subscription in order to use them?

There will be wailing an nashing of teeth come 2009!

TV is a major waste of time. As an information provider it is extremely inefecient. Movies are visually bad quality. Most of the programming is visual novocane. Most of the information can be provided without the "Talking Head". The images provided are of such short duration that only the most vague of impressions are gleaned. Furthermore it is addictive. You don't think so? Try to not watch for 1 week. Betcha can't. While you are trying, go to Google News and be pro-active.
I have lived most of my life without a TV and frankly I do not see how anyone can find time to watch the @$#&*$* thing.
Try Radio! NPR in the US and CBC in Canada. And while you are listening you can be doing something fun.
Radio Rules!

If the broadcasters want to cut me off from their material, then they can just do without me as a consumer until I need (as in the one I bought just over a year ago stops working) a new television. I am not going to purchase any additional hardware to make what I have compatible. Meanwhile I can watch rented and/or purchase movies (and even copies of my favorite broadcast shows) on DVD and/or VHS at my leisure.

I hope a significant number of people take the same attitude. Let's see what happens to ad revenues when sponsors realize the industry is going to cut off a significant portion of their viewership.

Quote

zewazir wrote:
If the broadcasters want to cut me off from their material, then they can just do without me as a consumer until I need (as in the one I bought just over a year ago stops working) a new television. I am not going to purchase any additional hardware to make what I have compatible. Meanwhile I can watch rented and/or purchase movies (and even copies of my favorite broadcast shows) on DVD and/or VHS at my leisure.

I hope a significant number of people take the same attitude. Let's see what happens to ad revenues when sponsors realize the industry is going to cut off a significant portion of their viewership.

You talk like the sponsors and the broadcasters have a choice here. The FCC dictated this change. In fact it was supposed to have happened already but the broadcasters lobbied for more time and they got it.

Ad revenues may go down, but the sponsors and broadcasters will blame the government not the technology.

So supposedly 30% of HDTVs aren't getting any HD programming? That is bull. I read on another website that they arrive at that figure partly by calculating the number of cable subscribers that bought an HDTV and did not upgrade to "digital cable" but continued to subscribe to "analog cable". I bought an HDTV but did not upgrade to "digital cable". I still get 4 high definition channels by cable, as well as 17 standard definition digital channels. I guess the statisticians never heard of clear QAM tuners! Local channels in HD are almost always not scrambled. I just took the cable line out of my old tv, hooked it up to my new HDTV, and can receive 21 digital channels at no additional charge. I live in Bakersfield California. I get local ABC, NBC, and CBS in high definition, Fresno's PBS in high definition, and several Los Angeles channels in standard definition. I will save money and do without HDNET and other premium services. I still get channels such as USA, ESPN, etc. in analog. I don't have to use a stupid converter box. The statisticians might think that my HDTV isn't getting any HD programming, but they are wrong! I am watching the 3am rerun of The Tonight Show in HD via cable as I write this!