So, what is the consequence of *not* uninstalling the update?

I had a conversation with a MS support rep today about some Entourage problems we're having (go figure). He said I should apply the 11.3.1 patch. I didn't know it was out there, and when I checked, it surely wasn't available. He put me on hold and told me ... "oh, nevermind, my mistake" (in his broken indian-english). He said it should be available shortly though...

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bgarlock wrote:
So, what is the consequence of *not* uninstalling the update?

You really can't uninstall it. What you actually have to do is dump the current software then reinstall and update to 11.3.0.

Makes you love MS even more, doesn't it

I installed the update on two of my four computers, and so far no problems at all, so I'm going to leave as is for the duration.

Thankfully, the autoupdate feature in MS Office 2004 failed to find new updates. While I was able to find the 11.3.1 update on the MS website, I decided not to apply it because I wanted to wait until it was available through the autoupdate.

Now I'm cautious about installing any future MS Office updates. It seems with the move to Vista, MS is trying to freeze out other users, including older versions of their own Windows software. The compatibility issues with Vista and its forthcoming office version are mounting fast.

If I didn't need compatibilty with MS Office documents (Windows) in my business, I'd dump MS Office and just use Mellel, or perhaps Nisus and even Mariner Write/Calc.

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yoyo52 wrote:
You really can't uninstall it. What you actually have to do is dump the current software then reinstall and update to 11.3.0.

Is there any mention of what components this degrade, I mean upgrade, affects? I seem to remember that if you delete stuff, the next Office app you start will whine and ask you to put the CD back in so it can re-install its missing pieces.

I am glad I did not apply the update to my work and home computers. I do not use Word much, but the wife uses it for her school documents.

I do page layout so of course am very comfortable with InDesign so I use it when I need a word processor. I like the control I have over elements, by comparison Word seems clumsy. I have Office and regularly use Excel, but as to Word that is almost exclusively for viewing incoming documents.

I totally agree with Edison Carter's comments above...

But I typically just use TextEdit for my word processing. (It has about 90% of the features 90% of the Word-using community actually uses.)

I'm no expert, but I really like Excel... it's one of the few Microsoft products that seems to really do what it's designed to do, and do it well. Some of the "It looks like you're managing a list..." balloons get in my way, but not as bad as other Microsoft products (including Windows itself). But it definitely wouldn't hurt my feelings to have a spreadsheet app that's more Mac-like and not a product of the Evil Empire.

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mjkphoto wrote:
It seems with the move to Vista, MS is trying to freeze out other users, including older versions of their own Windows software. The compatibility issues with Vista and its forthcoming office version are mounting fast.

LOL. Aside from the fact that this doesn't make any sense, what on Earth does it have to do with this Office update? Sounds like FUD to me. Or is it only FUD when it's againt Apple? Personally, I'm opposed to all FUD.

But bgarlock, yoyo52 and DirtRoad ask a good question. The same question I want to know. What does the patch break?

Just makes you want to dump MS and go with Open Source software, doesn't it? I suppose that this would be a bad time to ask about an update/upgrade to AppleWorks.

It ain't gonna happen. Appleworks is frozen. iWork is the successor to Appleworks, if not a complete replacement.

Obviously Pages replaces the word processing component. And IMO it does a fine job - it fits all the requirements I have.

However so far the spreadsheeting that was so basically represented in Appleworks hasn't appeared other than as a minimal component of Pages. The rumours are that it will appear in iWork '07, as Numbers (or similar - I think Charts is the latest moniker).

I could do with a basic database package - but I don't think it'll be turning up in the next twelve months. A sub-Filemaker would be fine for me.

You can still by Appleworks - it's still for sale. But it's got old, in more ways than one.

I have been screwed ever since. Prior to the 11.2.3 update ironically Office, especially Entourage, was my best working, least problematic applications ever. After I updated to 11.2.3 - TOAST!. Entourage is now the worst application I am running and if it weren't for the fact that you can not revert (WTF), I'd be just fine in back in 11.2.1. The one time that I did not make a copy of my "remotely aliased" database. Just to get Spotlight search ability, which I never use, I now have most of Entourages' features totally trashed and new features not working. Before none, never, no crashes with HTML eMail, one corrupt database since 1995, mail going to the folders it's suppose to, Rules working, Junk mail in the Junk Mail folder and Real Mail in the inbox not the other way around, plus more. Now every so often I get the damaged database warning even with the warning turned off and when checked, it's fine. And I can't export anything to try to go back the hard way, because it crashes every time I try it.

One thing though, I never knew that Office had its own error/crash reporter. "That's because I never needed to use it!" Now it's at least three to four times a day is fires off as whatever Office app I'm using crashes and that's in a fresh OS install.

The reason that there is no "uninstall" is that the updaters alters your User Database so you can not go back once you upgrade. Forced Upgrading. I have been YELLING at M$ for months since I installed the 11.2.3 updater and everything went to (place expletive here). SO . . . I hoped they would get their "sh't" together and get a workable update, boy was I dumb, or an application that will allow us to easily revert our databases back to 11.2.1.

I started to take each mailbox one by one and move it into Thunderbird, but that wasn't working too well. Then . . . my next thought was to reload a version of Office 11.2.1 on another partition and see if I can recover my database and restore to my main boot system. We'll see. But M$ really screwed up this time . . . and that's twice in several months.

The new M$, MacroStupid. I just had to say something juvenile.

Just use NeoOffice or another OpenOffice.org build. Free, feature parity with office xp, good to go.

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Dave wrote:
Just use NeoOffice or another OpenOffice.org build. Free, feature parity with office xp, good to go.

For me it's not a question of using something else, it's getting my data in a safe place that I might be able to use something else. I have been toying with, Thunderbird, and Seamonkey. But first things first. Need to get the data out safely.

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Dave wrote:
Just use NeoOffice or another OpenOffice.org build. Free, feature parity with office xp, good to go.

Agreed. NeoOffice is fantastic. I use it regularly. The only MS Word (from Windows) document in recent months that I've been unable to view properly was created by copying a web page, tables and all, and pasting directly into Word. Apparently it works just fine on the creator's computer, but it doesn't fit the page in NeoOffice.

I also tried AbiWord (another OpenOffice.org derivative, I believe) and it was horrible. MAJOR text reflow problems. Even basic character display was broken. Deleted it and installed NeoOffice again (I had recently reformatted) and all is well.

But this is just for viewing other people's documents. I, too, use InDesign for even basic letters. The control is so much more precise and powerful.

If I were printing envelopes or labels I might feel differently.


- Jon

I can't believe how many poor people insist on using microsoft products on a mac. Ask Senor Wozniak what he thinks. Microsoft have a vested interest in maintaining their operating system's standing over apple's. This is not another conspiracy theory - it's just common sense.

Microsoft?? Find an Alternative!

That's her name?

Really?

whoa.

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rskulas wrote:
Just makes you want to dump MS and go with Open Source software, doesn't it? I suppose that this would be a bad time to ask about an update/upgrade to AppleWorks.

Check out http://neooffice.org ... it's the Mac-ified version of Open Office, and seems to be shaping up quite nicely. I haven't used it for anything more than a few hours of testing over the past 3 months ... it's still missing one KEY feature that is central to my technical requirements documents (internal cross-references that point to numbered *paragraphs*). But otherwise it looks & feels quite nice, including impressive compatibility when pulling in my 150+ page MS Word doc (lots of tables & special fonts & styles, but no macros or various other bits of Word-magic).

Hey BIFF - See the December 5 MacObserver article, Mac BU Clarifies Win Office 2007 Incompatibility with Mac. The read Comments.

See this link: http://blogs.msdn.com/macmojo/archive/2006/12/17/now-you-see-it-now-you-don-t.aspx

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geoduck wrote:
But bgarlock, yoyo52 and DirtRoad ask a good question. The same question I want to know. What does the patch break?

Specifically I found it completely broke IMAP mail synchronisation between a trio of computers. You could Synchronise with the IMAP server on any computer and then watch the inbox fill up, only to see it rapidly empty as the mail was filed into many other destinations (mostly "deleted").
Worst part was the the mail database was not compatible between 11.2.5 and 11.3.1 - Doh! Why ever not - this is extortion! Found this out after removing new version, so had to upgrade again just to save a Mail Archive AND an mbox (drag to desktop) of each mailbox to be on the safe side.
This problem occurred on 10.3 and 10.4 iMacs G4 and Intel. Lost about 200 messages from IMAP server.
Microsoft Help Desk were amazed, hadn't heard of ANY other problems with the update (as usual) and not only offered to follow-up, but DID follow-up to see what my resolution was. Viz. Stay with the old version.

It's not just the Microsoft (nee Roman) Empire that will tumble one day, but also the banks, ISP's and corporations who have embraced the model for marketing. [I like the helicopter story - lost in fog - hover in front of building and hold placard requesting location - answer received - "You are in a helicopter". Thus the pilot, now knows where he is and lands safely. Co-pilot amazed, asks how? - Pilot affirms, I knew I was in front of the MS Building because the information was - Factually correct but totally bl**dy useless]
These organisations can be recognised with slick but useless interfaces. My favourite - the customer satisfaction survey. Was the person to whom you spoke pleasant on the phone? Honest answer; yes they were - meanwhile a raging desire to "let go" when the (non-appearing) question about satisfaction with the response from the corporation rather than the person. Or about obtaining a useful answer, or your problem being solved, or how to express that you have spent possibly an hour on three occasions trying to stop a measly but persistent $2 monthly charge for a service you are not receiving, or the blanket "no problem at our end" which persists until you have completed a thesis absolving every other known cause in the Universe - from which you receive either a meek "we have someone working on it" or the stranger still "strangely it is functioning now even though we have not made any changes! On it goes.

My bank insists that almost all customers want their online bank statement in reverse date order, even though the paper copies are not. The display can be changed, but cannot be saved as a preference. U-squared = UU = User Unfriendly = double U.

Too verbose - better sign off - hope I answered at least one persons question before I started ranting.