Wow, just wow. You can't make this stuff up.

Does Lenox Softworks really make open source software?

Windows will prevent students from downloading music and movies to the computers?

Macs don't run Microsoft "programs?" I guess Access and Visual Studio are really important?

Amazing.

"Yeah you tell em! Give em what they don't want! Take away what they love working with! Make them pay, them people! Make sure they don't get to use the tools they want to work with. Give 'em WIndows. To hell with what they want! To hell with their new Macs! Make them change! Give 'em hell!"

What's with these people? How whacko is this?! How do people like this get jobs? What a waste of time, money, and goodwill! Incredible. I thought dinosaurs were extinct?

Let's cut this guy a break. Remember that he is windows centric, that he has had to work hard to learn the complexities of the system and probably thinks he couldn't handle two different systems. Also, he doesn't know that Microsoft makes windows products for the Mac and the Mac handles open source systems.

He's probably scared that he might have to begin thinking of users as clients and then supplying them with tools to meet their needs. He wonders why district employees are not lining up to accept his decrees without a whimper.

This poor guy hasn't found the solution for his schools, he's found the anti-solution.

Let us pray for enlightenment.

Rick

Yikes. This smacks of the typical IT guy. Replace what he doesn't know, with what he does. I'm thinking this Eric fellow doesn't know Macs at all, much less OS X since the controls to deal with many of his issues are part of the OS.

It's sure nervy to take away what folks like and are happy using.His comment that the business world uses Windows, while certainly true, doesn't really apple since all that school pretty much needs is contained in Office which is wholly compatible across platforms(Did anyone tell him that?)

This is just another of many stories of how Macs get moved out by an individual who really doesn't know and the victims are the students and teachers, all for his own lack of knowledge.

I think a reasoned, logical and informative letter campaign is in order. Be Nice!

Since it's public information,

Dir of Technology - Non-Cert
Willard, Eric Technology Support
ewillard@d300.kane.k12.il.us
847-426-1300

I use Windows in my office 10 hours a day and I look forward to my Macs at home. The reality is that office staff DO NOT actually us the Windows. They open apps and they are not allowed to tinker with the OS. I gained all my technology stuff from using macs because they are easy to navigate and logical. As an office Windows user to lok for their IP address and they are lost. The IT person wil ask you to open the dreaded black DOS looking window. Therefore, making students learn Windows actually deafeats the purpose because the only knowledge they need is apps - spreadsheet, word processing, presentations and anyone can tell you, these are so simple to pick up.

Anyway, it is their students' loss, missing oout on broader acquiring technology knowledge.

Why not keep the macs and run WIndows and OS X on them. That's probalby to complicated for this guy.

Recent experience (yesterday) shows that Windows and Mac version of MS Word are not entirely compatible across platforms. Mac Word would crash every time it reached a point in the document I was attempting to edit. I think that it was related to some WordPerfect fonts which crept into the document. Whatever the cause, beware the Microsoft products. At least Pages was able to open the document and allow access to the typed text even though the formatting was different.

1. The kids call him "Big Willie".
2. Before becoming Director of Technology, worked on Nike assembly line carving out holes for the Nike+iPod sensor.
3. Hates Macs because ex-wife has one, won sole custody of kids because she was better at e-mail.
4. "Big Willie" was also his screen name in series of low budget skin flicks.
5. Kids may have watched clips of his films on YouTube.

Job Security anyone?

He is right in one thing: The students WILL learn something about the real world through this decision: Some idiot administrator or upper-management type will give the finger to what the general population wants or what is better for everyone else in favor of enforcing what he/she wants. Students, welcome to the real world!

+

I'm SICK SICK SICK of the "real world" argument. I'm in the real world. I work for an international high-tech industry leader. As a creative profesisonal, I also use Macs.

Macs are the standard in the creative fields. Does this freakin' idiot think the real world is made up of nothing more than accountants and administrative assistants? What about those students interested in content creation fields?

Freakin' Redmond kiss-a#$....

Given the pressures in education to meet the No Child Left Behind Act, it is understandable that a school district would adopt an operating system that was used by the majority of the student's households. There is no extra time left to teach OS and basic computer operations. All time and resources go to meeting standardized tests and the slow reduction of elective classes. Bottom line until Apple offers comperable equip/price to the consumer and signifigantly increases the install base it will be hard for education to overwhelmingly support Mac hardware and software.

Has this person looked at total cost of ownership?

Does this person know how long a Mac is reliably usable as contrasted with the life span of a PC?

Has this person looked at the number of service employees needed to support Macs as opposed to PCs?

Has this person looked at Vista and figured out what it is going to cost the school system to upgrade?

Has this person looked outside his own background to learn that schools are not businesses? In school, we want our children to have the best possible experiences and learning processes.

Does this person understand that children don't learn operating systems; they learn programs, keyboarding and collaboration?

The answer to each question is "Probably not."

And if so, why does he think he's qualified to lead the technology efforts of a school district?

Rick

It's pretty obvious the new director of technology isn't looking at the big picture. He's biased against Apple/Macs, and his only thought is to remove what he doesn't like, not think of what the children enjoy.

His use of open source software from Lenox Softworks makes me ask if he has some sort of side deal with the company. His weak excuse of 'The combination of Windows plus open source software, will prevent students from downloading music and movies to the computers', is a blantant cop-out. It can be prevented either way.

This is what happens when you allow closed minded individuals a small bit of power. They don't care about the end result or end users, as long as they receive their pound of flesh.

I think it would actually make the most sense to have both machines since each is appropriate in different circumstances. But I don't know enough about the situation to know if this guy just hates Macs or if his tiny school IT budget can't keep enough staff to support two operating systems at the same time. That said, I do think it's kind of silly to act like the guy is totally off his rocker. Is he wrong? 95% of the World DOES use Windows after all.

And to answer the first Guest's question: Yes, Visual Studio is exceptionally important if you are planning on taking up software engineering as a career. This reminds me of college where all of my programming classes were on Unix. Yeah thats great but it didn't do me much good after I graduated.

I think there might be a small conflict of interest here. I bet he buys computers made by the companies that he owns shares in.

> Has this person looked at total cost of ownership?

Probably, Yes. His tribe will carry more clout.

> Does this person know how long a Mac is reliably usable as contrasted with the life span of a PC?

Probably, Yes. More machine swaps means more work for his tribe.

> Has this person looked at the number of service employees needed to support Macs as opposed to PCs?

No doubt, Yes. His tribe will grow big.

> Has this person looked at Vista and figured out what it is going to cost the school system to upgrade?

Nope, that sort of info he will spring on the district when all decisions are set in concrete.

> Has this person looked outside his own background to learn that schools are not businesses? In school, we want our children to have the best possible experiences and learning processes.

There is nothing outside.....

> Does this person understand that children don't learn operating systems; they learn programs, keyboarding and collaboration?

Nope.

> Why does he think he's qualified to lead the technology efforts of a school district?

He's not and he shouldn't. He's a technocrat who should get his marching orders from the people with in depth educational insight. Begs the question: Does this district have such people? If they did, this guy would not have been appointed there in the first place..........

I think that Eric Willard is right in doing this. It's his school's job to prepare kids for what they're likely to encounter on the majority of desks. If I were a kid at his school whose only exposure to a computer was at school, I'd want to be sure that I was learning how to use a computer that I will MOST LIKELY encounter in the job field.

Disclaimer: Macs are better, more stable, more secure, should have won the OS war, etc, etc.

If it were to be to prepare kids for what they're likely to encounter, he would have to provide them with computers that don't exist yet.

The kids who are using computers in elementary school (is that a primary school?) will absolutely not be using the same computers ten years later. The operating system will be substantially different. Even if it's Microsoft.

Even the high school students will be exposed to different OSs in four-five years.

What is not important is what computer they are using. What is important is that they are using computers.

RE: Tough Position
Thing is, that they are using a platform that is working and compatible. Kids need Word, Powerpoint and Excel which exist on the Mac from Microsoft. To move to Windows would mean that they have to teach that new OS to a lot of students and teachers, but you say there is no time for that with the "No Child Left Behind" thing. That teaching the new OS is expensive, along with teacher training.

Perhaps a bigger thing that should be looked at is the integration of technology into the curriculum.That's where technology fails when it does, along with the age of the technology.

In this school, the Macs are 8 years old. They aren't even at OS X for the most part it appears. No wonder he doesn't like them.

A buddy of mine lives near that district and his comment was that the district 300 doesn't have funds to pay teachers, is strapped for cash due to building expenditures and other things. IOW, this just isn't a good idea.

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
I think that Eric Willard is right in doing this. It's his school's job to prepare kids for what they're likely to encounter on the majority of desks.

as a high school student here is my experience:
I walk into the library and there are many rows of insanely old imac G3s (yes they are painfully slow but it's better than nothing) and then along the walls there are windows machines. They are all running windows 2000 because that was the last release that didn't need registration, which is too much of a hassle for the people who run the computers to set up. So whenever people want to save their work onto a usb drive they plug it in and you can hear them complaining about the fact that the system cannot recognize the drivers for the usb drive from the other side fo the library. In addition, about half of the windows machines are out of order at any given time while I have never in my 3 years at the school seen any of the iMacs down, even though they get much more use. Not to mention the fact that the school spends a ton of money trying to replace all of the dying hardware on the Dell PCs...

Quote

The combination of Windows plus open source software, he said, will prevent students from downloading music and movies to the computers.

Sounds a smart move. Like joining the Nazi party a few days before Germany lost WW II.

M$ is the past; Apple is the future.

It has come to my attention that Mr. Willard has proposed phasing out Macintosh Computers in your school district. THis would be a tremendous mistake. Apple computer represents computing tools that are the most integrated, intelligent, practical, inspired and intuitive products produced in the United States today.

Please consider the attributes of this companies products and then consider what you want to model for your children.

I cannot declare enough my pleasure, satisfaction and respect for the Macintosh platform and the ethos of Apple computer. I would strongly encourage you re-consider Mr. Willard's qulaifications and judgement if you are truly concerned with the welfare and best interests of your matriculating students and greater community.

Very Sincerely,

David M. Greenbaum

In the "real world" of education, there's no money for annual hardware and software upgrades. Most PCs in my school were cobbled together from donated parts. It was only last year that the PCs in my room actually acquired CD-ROM drives! Because I could, I went out and bought several Macs for my classroom. The kids choose them over the Windows machines every time.

My district used to be almost all Apple, until a zealous idiot in administration decided to go PC-only. I swear, a Microsoft sales rep must take these guys away for weekend trips or something... The result was a district-wide network that goes down with every new worm, trojan, and virus. Nobody can do anything to their computers without calling in the techies.

I could see someone arguing that kids should learn Microsoft Office instead of AppleWorks -but honestly! IN THE REAL WORLD OF THE CLASSROOM we use a computer to find information on the internet, word process, and do multimedia projects. If any of that is actually OS/platform specific, the edge goes to the Macs without question. We're not training elementary kids to get a Windows certificate. The guy is this article is merely trying to carve out a secure niche for himself.

I thought the Platform Wars were over -No one with the IQ of a dinner salad should fall for the specious arguments and outdated factoids this guy is giving out.

I think you are giving him too much credit. If someone is savvy enough to understand what open source software actually is knows that Office is not only available on the Mac, but is a more current version.

My favorite definition of appropriate technology that we use is this (courtesy of international development specialist John F.C. Turner): "Technology that ordinary people can use for their own and their community's benefit, without creating reliance on systems outside their control."

According to this there isn't much in terms of communication technology that would meet the test, though it is certainly clear and agreed even across the PC-centric press that Apples are a heck of a lot closer that anything out of Redmond.

I think the reason why people feel so strongly about how wrong this is is at least partially due to our sense of the lack of an ethical context for the development and use of technology. Apple demonstrates at least an inkling of concern for the actual user, beyond the gaming realm. For that they deserve all the kudos that are amassing.

I can't wait for the next OS and the rest of the "one more things.." They represent the majority of the meaningful improvements to computing, in my opinion.

Tony Novelli
Assistant Director
Development Center for Appropriate Technology
www.dcat.net

I would just note that one will experience the same issues you've described when exchanging Office files between versions on windows, not just when exchanging between mac and windows.

-Steve

I just gotta say, its about time that school's grow out of this "Mac" phase and get back to teaching real world stuff.

OK, what is "real-world" stuff? Think carefully now...

Statements that a Mac is more reliable mechanically and logically is a grand exaggeration. The truth is, Apple uses many of the same components in their machines as does Dell. Now that Apple has switched to Intel CPU's, they are little more than pretty Dells, with a ripped off version of free bsd and a much higher price tag. I hated Macs when I was in high school. I was so happy when they brought in an entire lab full of windows based pc's.

MACS don't require as many personnel to fix them because you can no longer service them yourself anyway. Our district's computers are all MACs... if anything breaks, you must send them to the company to get fixed. There is no way to open the machine... how's that for great service.

The interests of IT staff (namely, their job security) are opposite to the interests of computer users (namely, a trouble-free computing experience). The more easy and uncomplicated a computing experience is, the more unnecessary IT staff are.

I'm reminded of the IT worker at a university computer lab who once told me that Macs are harder to troubleshoot. The truth is that studies have strongly and uniformly shown that Macs are easier to troubleshoot. When I began to point that out, he became nervous and cut off the conversation (rather than presenting any evidence to contradict me). In the course of his work, he could not possibly have failed to notice that Macs were easier to troubleshoot, since he worked in a computer lab with both Macs and PCs, and since this was in the 1990s when the user-friendliness gap was especially glaring. Which means that he was lying.

IT staff are scared of Macs.

Will someone just send emails to these board directors, as to tell them what the real world is thinking about this whole stupid idea?

http://www.d300.org/web/boardofeducation.html

i go to district 155 right next to 300.i dunno if this is the same for 300 but the macs we have suck balls. they are slow as hell, and it takes 15 minutes to access info if u saved it on a non mac computer in the school.if 300s macs are the same the guy is right to get rid of em. however u can get by w/ mac instead of microsoft in the "real world"

"Mr. Willard's Mac-free schools will also use open source software from Lenox Softworks. The combination of Windows plus open source software, he said, will prevent students from downloading music and movies to the computers."

Bullshit.


many Bittorrent and shareaza clients are both free. Plenty of windows xploits in the plain vision. dumb move

...that would be much faster and easier would be to phase out the new Director of Technology, who clearly is ill-fitted for this 'real-world' position.

Clearly, the school district should buy the Macs the voters wanted and were willing to pay for.

Vista will be a boondoggle, and a colossal waste of money.

From a financial standpoint, TCO for the lifetime of the Macs (which WILL have a much longer lifespan than PCs) for both hardware and support would be lower.

From the academic standpoint, learning more about Linux and BSD is desirable for anyone with a serious interest in technology, and the arguments made about 'real world' use of Macs in any creative field is also true. The argument can be even further advanced that the man is a moron, because buying Intel-based Macs allows teachers and students to use Bootcamp to use Windows if he really felt a burning need.

All in all, it's pretty clear he has no idea what he's talking about, on every talking point.

Disclaimer: I'm a mac user at home(mostly), pc at work(mostly). I actually prefer to *gasp* use the best tool for the job...

By teaching these kids on a mac, you're just giving them another stumbling block when they get out to the real world. By "Real world" I mean anything that isn't creative content creation, which is probably between half and a quarter the size of apple's market share. To be fair, more kids probably think they'll grow up to be Athletes or Musicians than graphic designers.

Yeah, they'll get over the learning curve pretty fast. If they get the job. I have two nearly identical candidates, one knows the system we use for our business, the other doesn't. Which one do I hire?

You MacinNuts will never see the big picture... then again
neither will the WinNuts...

Mostly what I see from IT staff that hates the mac is ignorance of the other platform. Mostly what I see from creatives that hate non-mac platorms is...ignorance of the other platform... hmm...

This dude is making the right decision.

Quote

mrmgraphics wrote:
+

I'm SICK SICK SICK of the "real world" argument. I'm in the real world. I work for an international high-tech industry leader. As a creative profesisonal, I also use Macs.

Macs are the standard in the creative fields. Does this freakin' idiot think the real world is made up of nothing more than accountants and administrative assistants? What about those students interested in content creation fields?

Freakin' Redmond kiss-a#$....

Quote

Guest wrote:
Given the pressures in education to meet the No Child Left Behind Act, it is understandable that a school district would adopt an operating system that was used by the majority of the student's households. There is no extra time left to teach OS and basic computer operations. All time and resources go to meeting standardized tests and the slow reduction of elective classes. Bottom line until Apple offers comperable equip/price to the consumer and signifigantly increases the install base it will be hard for education to overwhelmingly support Mac hardware and software.

I just completed a middle tier Oracle/Python/XML Based application for a large brick and mortar retail chain which has been around for ages. I coded everything on my mac laptop. I've worked in the financial field for the past half decade, serving at times as both lead software developer/architect as well as Chief Technical Officer and again, everything was done on a Mac, including interacting with several of the largest banking entities (at the corporate level) without trouble. Macs are Unix and as such for software engineers such as myself, the best option out there for true heavy duty software where the real work gets accomplished.

Sincerely,
Eric G. Elinow
Software Engineer
http://www.europeanisation.net

I can't believe you lot sit and bag this guy and how biased he is against macs. What a bunch of hipocrites.

It's exactly this sort of attitude that makes PC users wary of mac users. Rabid fanboyism.

And considering macs are now essentially overpriced PCs.... I wonder who won the war and just what you are fighting about.

In my experience, it's a lot cheaper to go with Windows in a K12 environment than it is to go with Macintosh, even with software licencing.

If you go with Macintosh, you will have to pay for a copy of OS X Server to reign the Mac clients in properly, which is about $800-$900 a pop at educational pricing. Microsoft presently charges us $129 per licence of Windows Server 2003. We pay $75 per copy of Windows XP Professional. However, that being said, we picked up a palette of 500 (FIVE HUNDRED) Dell Optiplex GX260 P4's with 40gb hard drives, 512MB RAM, 3 year warranties and an XP Pro licence included for $249 each. So, let's figure out the cost of building a Windows Lab is vs a Macintosh lab.

Macintosh -- 30 Mac Minis @ $699 (educational pricing), plus $30 for keyboards and mice, and another $200 each for 17" LCD's. A G5 server or MacPro is going to cost several say, $2000, $1500 if you go with older hardware. $899 for your educational copy of OS X Server, unlimited clients.

Cost for Mac lab? $30,670.

Windows -- 30 Dell GX260's @ $249 each. Keyboards and mice included. $200 each for 17" LCD's. Dell Poweredge Server @ $2000, Windows Server 2003 @ $129.

Cost for Windows lab? $15599. For the difference in cost, you can afford to buy enough copies of Deep Freeze to lock things down pretty good, assuming you aren't good with group policies.

Apple is pricing itself out of the educational market, and what they're offering the educational market is open source software with a pretty graphical interface. It's like paying thousands of dollars for something being given away for free!

When you factor in everything the Mac can do out of the box, plus what you save on virus protection and IT support, I'd say it's a better value. This is from someone who just bought a new PC to save money. When it's all said and done, I should've bit the bullet and bought a Mac. You really do get what you pay for.

children will use whatever the school has and runs the fastest.that is my experence my highschool gave ever child a laptop mac g4 and keep there dell pcs and it didnt take long before everyone was useing the pcs just because they ran faster and in high school the fast you can finish a project the sooner you can go have fun

The technology a school district uses should be what the teachers and students want to use and delivers the best learning experience for the students. The IT people should have no say in the matter. They are there to serve the needs of the students and teachers.

I am sick of IT people trying to dictate what technology end users should use.

How many people are there in the IT department involved in IT support? How much does it cost in terms of salary, benefits and payroll taxes?

Macs suck balls. They are not manageable on an enterprise level. I wish they WERE a potential alternative to the MS server/domain world but they aren't. Period. Despite promise and potential Apple cannot get it together in this regard. Businesses don't use them because (and this is going to be tough for some of you to wrap your fanboy heads around) they don't meet the NEEDS of business. Many of these same needs exist in the "business" of running a school network.

Something else for people to consider,

Apple doesn't give away their OS.

To put it in perspective, if you standardized on OS X Panther last year to make IT support easier in your school district, your strategy would be flushed down the toilet after buying any new Macintosh today, since it would not allow you to even load OS X Panther on it. I know this, because I faced this situation.

If you had tried to standardize on OS X Jaguar, you would face the same problem as soon as you bought any G5 Macintosh, or G4 Macintosh past 1Ghz, since they will only take Panther at a bare minimum.

Apple likes to replace their OS every 2 to 3 years, so every school district that goes with Apple Macintosh will have to shell out to upgrade/throw out their workstations every 2 or 3 years, or get used to having to support 4-5 different versions of the same OS.

If this doesn't bother you, imagine trying to control a lab of intel Mac Minis from a dual G4 550Mhz server running OS X Server Jaguar.

Now, imagine controlling a lab of Windows XP Professional computers with a Windows Server 2000 box. Oh wait, that isn't that far fetched, is it.