Windows users aren't cool

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stuartea wrote:
Windows users aren't cool

Neither are you!

You prat : )

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felixgardian wrote:

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stuartea wrote:
Windows users aren't cool

Neither are you!

"Apple thinks that Windows users are not cool."

No, Apple probably thinks that Windows users who ARE cool are most likely to switch to Macintosh.

When he said that Windows is held to a higher standard. That standard being OSX

The "I'm a Mac/and I'm a PC" campaign is obviously, strongly insulting to Windows as an OS. It's supposed to induce loathing for the dorky platform.

Spinning those ads as a diss at Windows *users* tends to make them mad at Apple, which is about the best outcome for Microsoft. And see above, it works!

"He noted that Vista is used by some 90% of the computing world, while others chose the Mac."

I bet it got listed wrong, but it would still be amusing. I mean hell, the product is out for one day and it's scooped 90% of the market? Damn, I'm impressed.

Not.

I guess it would be more accurately covered with "There are that many idiots in the world?"

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Guest wrote:
The "I'm a Mac/and I'm a PC" campaign is obviously, strongly insulting to Windows as an OS. It's supposed to induce loathing for the dorky platform.

Spinning those ads as a diss at Windows *users* tends to make them mad at Apple, which is about the best outcome for Microsoft. And see above, it works!

Bill Gates is dorky. Watch him on video, he has no élan, he dresses like Martin Prince, his voice is uninspiring. Contrast that with Steve Jobs who struts confidently, dresses like an artist, a better public speaker. Both can be arrogant, but Steve does it with class. Ya think that the personality of the person at the top is in the products?

I am not saying that Gates is stupid, far from it, but he doesn't have that certain something that produces things like the Mac and OSX.

The MAC ads have also been lost on a huge part of the public as well since almost everyone still uses Windows.

So Gates appears not so polished as Jobs. That means nothing. As far as MACs being cool, I have yet to see being cool as a job requirement.

If Windows is used by most people and OSX is not, I'd say Gates was smarter than Jobs.

I think we can all agree that Apple Store employees are way more cool than regular Apple employees. And we can probably agree that what makes Apple store employees so cool are things like have their genitals pierced. Some estimates say as many as 75% of Apple Store employees are _that_ cool. What is not cool however is when they tell you. Totally uncool.

I think maybe there is some potential for some mac commercials... I am Bill Gates, and I am Steve Jobs.... One a dorky man and Steve much more hip.

It made me smile to hear the soundbyte of him saying..."Windows users are hip." I was thinking, I don't really believe that guy has any understanding of what is cool or what isn't...

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kydruid wrote:
"He noted that Vista is used by some 90% of the computing world, while others chose the Mac."

I bet it got listed wrong, but it would still be amusing. I mean hell, the product is out for one day and it's scooped 90% of the market? Damn, I'm impressed.

Not.

I guess it would be more accurately covered with "There are that many idiots in the world?"

I incorrectly worded that, Kydruid. Mr. Gates was talking about Windows as a broad platform, not Vista specifically. I edited the piece to make that more clear.

Thanks for the note!

Bryan
Editor
TMO

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Guest wrote:
The MAC ads have also been lost on a huge part of the public as well since almost everyone still uses Windows.

So Gates appears not so polished as Jobs. That means nothing. As far as MACs being cool, I have yet to see being cool as a job requirement.

If Windows is used by most people and OSX is not, I'd say Gates was smarter than Jobs.

The correct word is Mac, or better yet Macintosh. MAC stands for Media Access Control, the ID of your computer on a network.

Being cool can be a job requirement, depends on the job. However, we are not discussing jobs, well Steve Jobs, but corporate personalities. Steve Jobs being more polished than Bill Gates means a lot, it is the difference between OSX and Vista.

I once met Bill Gates. It was in the autumn of 1989 and we had a booth at an AppleFest near Chicago. After show hours there was the usual mixers for developers and vendors. Bill struck me as genius, but kind of, well it is hard to put into words, like a space alien or something.

There was a time when Apple computers were more dominant in the market place. Yes, Bill Gates had a big influence in changing that, like I said he may be genius. Things change, and could change again. Who knows how this business will end ere it comes, suffice it to say the day will end, and then the end is known. Come, ho' away!

On the subject of how "uncool" Bill Gates is, I direct you to his interview with John Stewart earlier this week. He seemed generally uncomfortable and showed only limited comprehension of Stewart's jokes. Then he got up and just rolled out at the end, which no one ever does. It was an exceptional display of being tactless and disconnected from reality. Its funny because Melinda seems so personable, I really enjoyed her NPR interview earlier in the week focused on their charitable foundation. I guess that is a case of opposite personality types attracting

I suppose if you take workplaces, which offer no options for employees to select a platform, then yes, they might have that. Among people who can choose their OS, my experience is Mac's are used by somewhere between 30% and 60% of the people. And among creative professionals more like 70%+.

I think the polling Apple does could reflect this as a much more accurate reflection of *personal* computer use, as well as give better numbers overall of the businesses that are switchers.

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Guest wrote:

If Windows is used by most people and OSX is not, I'd say Gates was smarter than Jobs.

This incorrectly presumes that it's all about market share. It isn't. Apple doesn't need the mass of market share. It needs profits. What helps it gain profits is _mind_ share--and it's got that in spades! I don't see Apple ever wanting the vast bulk of market share--what a hassle! Remember, they make the whole widget--they are one manufacturer out of many. They need just enough to attract customers and developers, and grow the business.

Actually, at this point, one could say that Microsoft's hegemony is its greatest enemy. How do you grow complete saturation? It's hard, and this Vista launch is proving this. They have generated zilcho "wow" from the roll-out, and this would be expected, when their market share is well-night 100%. So, Apple is actually in a very good position. They are making money, their developers and hardware vendors are making money--and there is _tons_ of room to grow the market before they make a significant dent on Microsoft's real profits.

So, right now, it's a win for Apple, and a not-lose for Microsoft.

BTW, I've always like Bill Gates as a person. Microsoft, on the other hand...

I think that Bill is more like us average people--not necessarily happy in the spotlight, and that discomfort shows...

quote="anovelli"]Among people who can choose their OS, my experience is Mac's are used by somewhere between 30% and 60% of the people.[/quote]Right now? NO way. Not even close! But, as we all know, that is changing and will continue to change in the forseeable future. So maybe we'll get there some day. That is, with a 30%+ install base in people's homes. The enterprise will continue to be the domain of M$ for a long, LONG time and I don't think Apple will be changing that.

Okay... So Bill Gates has made alot more money than Albert Einstein? That make him smarter? Marker share is not the sole measure of market success, and material success is not the sole measure of human intellect.

Look, that 90% figure? Yeah, Microsoft is a monopoly, right? Do I see a show of hands for those who really understand what that means? Didn't think so. I'll explain.

Once a company becomes a monopoly (which by itself, is not illegal) it has achieved a dominant position in the market. That could mean anything from 60% to 90%+ market share. On a practical level, it also means:

1. They can now set prices at will (and their customers have to smile and like it)

2. they can (and will) LOWER prices selectively to drive competing businesses out of the market.

3. They can (and will) require predatory exclusivity contracts with OEMs to create major barriers to entry for new competitors. (This IS illegal)

4. They can demand preferential treatment from the political establishment.

5. Once competitors are driven out or otherwise hamstrung, they can then RAISE prices at whim, and the market has no choice but to buy their product.

How does Microsoft fit this model?

1. Retail prices of their product are the highest of any OS on the market. Both competitors are either lower priced, or free, but still hold less than 5 or 6% of the market.

2. M$ requires OEMs to sign long duration exclusive contracts for distribution of Windows preventing them from distributing other OSes or advertising anything but Windows. those contracts also require the OEMs to pay a fee for every PC sold, whether it has Windows on it or not. Those OEM contracts set very low prices that are dependent on the OEM following the terms of the contract. A violation can result in the prices then charged at retail level, which effectively locks out other competitors from the OEM market. (Microsoft promised to stop this in the consent decree in 96, but they've largely ignored it, and the DOJ hasn't enforced it.)

3. Note that the last two anti-trust cases brought against them in the US resulted in very mild terms in the consent decrees, most of which terms are not being enforced anyway. Political influence maybe?

4. M$'s offerings in the Enterprise are marked by very high prices, but low entry costs. A company can buy servers, etc., fairly cheaply, given the OEM costs of the license. But have you ever seen the per seat costs? You have to buy a license for every PC on your network, of course, but you also have to buy a separate license for every seat that connects to every server you run! (You have 20 employees, and two servers, one for fileshare, one for email; you need 2x20 licenses not 20.) Multiply that by 10000 and then by some number representing the number of servers required to support a staff of 10000. Numbers get very high very quickly! Once a company gets into this scheme, the barriers to exit become almost insurmountable, given the costs.

Translation: When a new version of Windows comes out, the new version is almost guaranteed a market.

Microsoft's problem is that the costs to its customers to maintain security are becoming almost great enough to make those exit costs reasonable by comparison, and when one honestly adds the per seat costs of staying as a M$ customer to that, moving to another system (OS X for instance) becomes more attractive, given Apple's very low per seat costs (built in to the cost of the server license at $999 for unlimited seats.)

In addition, the coming move to 64 bit OSes could be the straw that breaks the M$ camel's back. Vista is not fully 64 bit ready by a long shot, Linux will never get their act together in time, and OS X is the only OS that will (with Leopard) be completely 64 bit compliant (PLUS 32 bit legacy compatible!)

So between now and 2008, as hardware is moving into the 64 bit realm and out of the 32 bit arena, large companies that will require the apps that will run 64 bit clean and address over 4 gigs of memory will see that Apple is the only player that will fill the bill, both in cost and in capability.

(Yes, I know, there is a 64 bit version of Windows, but it won't run 32 and 64 bit apps side by side, and there are other issues. OS X doesn't have those limits.)

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rwahrens wrote:
Microsoft's problem is that the costs to its customers to maintain security are becoming almost great enough to make those exit costs reasonable by comparison, and when one honestly adds the per seat costs of staying as a M$ customer to that, moving to another system (OS X for instance) becomes more attractive, given Apple's very low per seat costs (built in to the cost of the server license at $999 for unlimited seats.)

Nice post, though it wreaks of high school student government optimism. I can only hope it's close to correct for the future of Apple in the enterprise. I get discouraged when I look at Apple's approach to their enterprise customers, but Vista just might be the straw that breaks the back and pushes companies to explore other options. By default, Apple could have to dig in deep and actually support enterprise (whole-heartedly... not as they have been all along).
For me, I was really planning on getting Vista when it came out (for BootCamp and Parallels). But with all of the fine print (can't use Vista Home for vituralization) and high pricing (OEM versions will only be good for ONE computer.. ever), I'll stick to XP until my eyes get screen burn from the [default] Teletubbies desktop picture.

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JonGl wrote:
This incorrectly presumes that it's all about market share. It isn't. Apple doesn't need the mass of market share. It needs profits. What helps it gain profits is _mind_ share--and it's got that in spades! I don't see Apple ever wanting the vast bulk of market share--what a hassle! Remember, they make the whole widget--they are one manufacturer out of many. They need just enough to attract customers and developers, and grow the business.

Actually, at this point, one could say that Microsoft's hegemony is its greatest enemy. How do you grow complete saturation? It's hard, and this Vista launch is proving this.

/agree

The number one competitor For Vista.


Windows XP


While Mac keeps growing and gaining new customers, Microsoft is losing customers and profit to other OS's. Vista's hardest hurdle to overcome is getting people to switch from XP. XP will have support for another 7 years. It took 5 years for Vista to make it out and actually should have been delayed to fix all the bugs. Everytime Microsoft releases a"new" OS it is taking longer and longer to develop, and to transistion the current user base. This is what happens when something grows too big. It cannot carry it's own wait and evently stagnates and dies.

Vista. Mac OSX 10.2

A few years too late and falls short of expecations. Kinda like the Zune.
I mean everyone at Microsoft just knew the "Hippest" color would be brown!

Not

It's not a windows thing or an apple thing. It's a marketing thing.

Apple is better at marketing. Apple makes better products. Even Bill Gates himself has been shown on video admitting that the Apple platform is superior.

Vista is turning out to be just another Brown Zune product from Microsoft. An unoriginal idea that was poorly thought out and poorly implemented.

"He noted that Vista is used by some 90% of the computing world, while others chose the Mac."

That might be but he missed out that 75% of the computing world don't get a choice and if they did they would choose a mac.

Whilst the moderator must keep Gates from storming off mid interview, I thought the "hard" questions were rather softball.

It is almost like there is an intellectual disconnect between what Vista is and what OSX is. Vista is a blatent rip-off of OSX. If there was an original thought at big Redmond, it died of loneliness. Using it, I'm reined of a mashup of elements I've seen in 10.1 and 10.3 version of Apple's OS offering.

How MS avoids litigation on this astounds me.

Look -- I have used both the OSs in my time.

Frankly, I can see a Windows user switching, for whatever reasons, to OSX.

But the other direction? No way, Jose!

cks

i love how all you guys love to spend your time picking apart the the best and most popular OS maker in the world. apple you have allways been Microsofts bitch. some pasty reject dork on some lame comercial trying to prove that apple is the best OS because the users are cool is really sad. just vistit an apple store and you will find an over priced product with a bunch of pimply dorks wetting thier pants. peace out mac bitches vista and zune is here so pack your bags the party is over. IM OUT

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Anonymous wrote:
i love how all you guys love to spend your time picking apart the the best and most popular OS maker in the world. apple you have allways been Microsofts bitch. some pasty reject dork on some lame comercial trying to prove that apple is the best OS because the users are cool is really sad. just vistit an apple store and you will find an over priced product with a bunch of pimply dorks wetting thier pants. peace out mac bitches vista and zune is here so pack your bags the party is over. IM OUT

Hey guest, the Mac Observer appreciates your contribution, the advertisers pay for web hits. Thanks.

As for your juvenile attitude, I can sympathize. If I were stuck with a shitty PC and all of the shortcomings of Micro$oft windoze, I'd probably be a bitch too. Thankfully I have a Macintosh and I don't have to be miserable like you.

Please come back soon and grease our sponsors some more. Otherwise, don't go away, just go away mad.

LOL