What kind of crack is this guy smoking? Unbelievable. I am actually at a loss for words. By all means, Billy, bring on the public disclosure of your innovation. I can't help but notice that all of your enhancements and ideas always come on the heels of an Apple announcement. I wonder how many of Leopard's features you would have 'innovated' into Vista if Steve had disclosed more of them in his keynote? Sad, so very sad.

Somebody finally got a bee in his bonnet about this.
Me thinks he doth protest too much.

And lighten up will you? The Get a Mac ads are supposed to be funny and cheeky. Even Mac people get that part of it. Especially since most of us use both platforms.

And now the challenge is out there:
"I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

Has he looked at a Windows Registry in the last, oh, day????????????

...as long as they spell your name correctly.

It definitely says a lot, when Gates gets so agitated talking about Apple. Since Windows 3.1, Apple has been claiming originality, innovation and superiority against windows 'Me too'. With every new Windows release (95, 98, Me, 2k, XP, not to mention Bob), MS kept making bigger and splashier product releases. All the while, Gates never got agitated by Apple's smugness and claims of superiority. To see him get really worked up over this is of major significance.

Mainly, he is painfully aware that Apple is now finally gaining traction in the public, and that for exactly the reasons they've been claiming all the while (easy to use, safe, secure, etc.). He knows that MS wasted billions and 6 years, only to come up with something that is a natural continuation of XP, not an earth-shattering, groundbreaking product he was hoping for. And he also knows that many more will continue to compare with OS X. He was hoping that the final product would easily win in all those comparisons; it clearly isn't and this pisses him to no end.

Bill Gates is not a teenager. He has enough experience doing interviews and knows how to respond properly. It is quite telling to see him agitated so much so that he cannot control his anger. His answers are literally like a teenager snapping back at someone taunting them.

As for security, needless to say, if Vista is as secure as he claims it is, it will break vast majority of existing Windows applications until updates are released by developers. If it is backwards-compatible with old code, then it is Swiss cheese.

He can't just crawl into a whole and dye. He has to support and defend his products.

Yes, the original Mac interface was built on existing stuff, but it was an improvement. For all the time and money put into Vista it should have blown OSX out of the water.

Question for you folks knowledgeable about "PCs" and Vista requirements. What percentage of PCs purchased more than 6 months ago can run Vista without major hardware upgrades?

"...I don't know why [APPLE is] acting like it’s SUPERIOR. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Does HONESTY MATTER in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a LYING PERSON whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of truth to it."

"STEVE JOBS INVENTED THE WORLD, and then the rest of us came along," that's fine."

"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every SINGLE day. Every SINGLE day, they come out with a TOTAL exploit, your machine can be TAKEN OVER TOTALLY."

"Will Microsoft now change its mobile-phone strategy and adopt an end-to-end approach, the way Apple has with the iPhone?

No, I don't think so. People like different styling, media storage, capability [in phones]. The benefit we get from having lots of great hardware partners is pretty phenomenal. And our software can run on any one of those things."

We know Steve jobs said Gates has no taste and now Gates can speak no truth. Gates lies, lies and more lies.

What you see is Bill Gates trying to create his own Reality Distortion Field.

But just like Windows, it's a sloppily executed copy of the original and a tad late.

(I keep thinking of the Get a Mac ad with Gisele)

My favorite part of the article was where Gates said, " We'll tell you how Vista just wasn't good enough, and we'll know why, too."

That about says it all.

You know, Bill, it's weird. Since updating to OS X - what was it, around 2001? - I haven't had to use a single virus protection scheme. I haven't spent a penny on virus protection.

Now, imagine my shock to learn that my Mac has been vulnerable all these years, and that Windows XP is really the secure option!

Wait - I have to lay down - I'm not sure that my heart can take it. It must be a matter of pure luck that my Mac has escaped harm - and my previous three Macs that ran OS X - and my home iMac - and my mom's G5 tower - and her previous two Macs that ran OS X - and every single Mac OS X user I have ever known or heard of.

And just think, my co-worker's computer that was so invaded by virii that the HARD DRIVE had to be replaced, because the local computer store goobers figured it would be cheaper to replace the drive than to clean it up, wasn't harmed at all.

He, of course, hadn't kept his anti-virus protection payments up to date.

Who really thinks that Gates has made BILLIONS selling Windows? Could it be that he has some stock in all those companies selling anti-virus crap?

Sheesh - and people accuse The Steve of weaving reality distortion fields!

"Apple hasn't done any of those things."

Yeah, 'cause they don't NEED to. *rolleyes*

Also, I haven't heard of a single security breach on the Mac that allows someone to take total control over a Mac. Certainly, nothing in the wild anywhere near the virulence of, say "Code Red".

Anyone have anything to back up that line? Or as he says, "Does honesty matter in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it?"

Microsoft has so blatantly ripped off OSX with vista, that comparisons are inevitable. As for his FUD insofar as Mac security is concerned, where's the beef? I've had Macs almost from the beginning. To date almost all of them are still functional and not a single one was ever brought down by a virus, worm, spyware and/or malware. Every Mac user I've ever known has had the identical experience. Now about Wintel users, the reverse seems to be the standard there. Not a single one has eluded some form of technological malady shortly after buying into the MS lie.

Oh, I have my gripes with Apple. Namely a G3 iBook with faulty logic board(s) which has caused untold grief. Yet in the time I had that lemon, my Wintel pals when through 2 laptops.

Microsoft has earned it's criticism. They do not innovate, they follow. Vista is a OSX rip off. The corporate culture in Redmond just works that way. I'd say, don't be upset about it, but give credit where it is due.

Lastly, Bill may be upset that Vista kind of forces users to upgrade their hardware(more often than not). So if your in the market for a new computer, do you go Vista or do you go with the only other mainstream alternative-Apple? I'm guessing the millions of iPod owning consumers who may be in this position over the next year are causing no small amount of agitation for Ballmer and Gates. Good!

This week, my favourite bit of wasting time has been going stores with Vista PC's and going into the display preferences and switching the theme back to windows classic. Shows you how far they've gone...

i think all mac users should make it a point to do this the next time they click away on a Vista PC.

I thought it was especially funny when Bill Gates pointed out that his company isn't under SEC investigation for backdating options and that MSFT pays a dividend.

Wow. This guy really does believe his own reality distortion field. How sad. I guess having all that money makes one insane.

The virus, spyware etc guys are hammering as we speak to break vista. I hope they don't succeed, but we all know they will.
He will then be eating his own words.

It is a very interesting interview. Bill Gates sounds very defensive in this interview. I think he is getting tired of answering all the questions about the mac and apple when he really just wants to talk about Vista. Could some of this be that sales of Vista aren't what they should be?

The jab at the advertising is also interesting. It is supposed to be fun look at the differences between the two computers. BG has his own reality distortion field, especially if he really hasn't seen the ads as he has claimed. He should understand what Apple is trying to do. It is called marketing. He is playing right into Apple's hands with some of his comments.

Also interesting the comments about security and innovation. Especially the security issue. The proper follow up question should have been-if Apple is so insecure, how come you don't have to buy security program for the Mac as of yet but MSFT decided to buy its own security company and their still is a recommendation for people to use such a program with Vista? The innovation comment is hard to get to the base of. Hard to know who came up with an idea to include. But it is not just the idea about what to do but how it is implemented that MSFT seems to copy.

Definitely a good read. Just my take on things.

Neal

I don't who's in more denial, you Mac users or Gates.

I would think Bill Gates would be more in-tune with the security falabilities of both OS than any Mac fanboy posting on this site.

I would imagine most of you would be eating a lot of crow if you could sit down for 30 with MS's security guys while they go over exploit after exploit for the Mac.

Nah, Bill Gates has NO CLUE what he's talking about. He was just given all those billions of dollars for nothing.

Mac's best and ONLY security "feature" is that it only has 5% of the market. That's something a hacker/cracker can't touch, and quite honestly would be embarassed to.

I think Bill is use to having computer users blindly follow Microsoft. They really never considered Apple a true competitor. However, this seems to be changing. The spill over from the iPod into the Windows world is definitley having an impact on their bottom line. Reporters are asking the hard questions regarding comparisons between Apple's and Microsoft's OS because their is litte innovation after 5-7 years of work. I think a lot of people thought Vista would leap frog over OS X but it didn't -- it just (sort of) caught up. Wait until Leopard arrives, what will Bill say then?

Apple's marketing is obviously superior to Microsoft. The future looks bright for Apple.

The problem is the ads generally aren't funny. Often the things they've said are at best misleading and often flat out lies. I mean, come on. Putting together a PC is not hard. If you can connect your stereo to a Cassette Deck and CD player, you can put a Dell or HP machine together.

"The benefit we get from having lots of great hardware partners is pretty phenomenal. And our software can run on any one of those things"

Like the Zune sofware with PlaysForSure devices? like those partner's products? I'm sure they find it pretty phenomenal indeed.

Perhaps Bill should read the email thread that came out this week between MS officials in charge of Vista a year ago. The one where they get the developper version of Tiger after the WWDC keynote and are blown away. Here's a quotes:
- "You will have to take Vic’s disk ... I am not giving mine up
Tonight I got on corpnet, hooked up Mail.app to my Exchange server and then downloaded all of my mail into Zhe local file store. I ~id system wi~e queries against docs, contacts, apps, photos, music, and ... my Microsoft email on a Mac. It was fucking amazing. [t i~
like I just got a free pass ~o Lonqhorn land today."

Bill is sadly delusional.

With Gates, it's more of a Reality Denial Field.

Quote

Yes, the original Mac interface was built on existing stuff, but it was an improvement.

That is not exactly how it was, according to people who were around at the time. Go here and read about it:

http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_horn1.html

Anyway, it must be a hard time for Gates, poor sod! He hasn't been used to this earlier - it seems like in every interview he is being confronted with Apple and Mac OS X! I'd say his sorry past is catching up with him. No wonder he's losing control.

As for MOAB, I read the Macalope's take on it and it seems like it wasn't much to be afraid of and nothing like Billy Boy wants to believe it was. If you take away the bugs they found in third party apps which has nothing to do with Apple or the Mac OS X, we're still left with around 20 or so and most of those can be handled by turning off the silly option to automatically open "safe" files in Safari. If they turn that off as a default in the next update, it should take care of lots of potential exploits.

For those of you who wants to read more about MOAB, can check this article out:
http://tj.tntluoma.com/mac/moab

I guess Gates doesn't want to read that. Reality might be a bit hard to endure, sometimes...

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nealg wrote:
It is a very interesting interview. Bill Gates sounds very defensive in this interview. I think he is getting tired of answering all the questions about the mac and apple when he really just wants to talk about Vista. Could some of this be that sales of Vista aren't what they should be?

MS gets the vast majority of its sales from new PCs. Many box makers said their 4th quarters were sluggish because people were holding off on making a purchase till Vista comes out. Do you immediately buy every new version of OSX?
I'd personally feel a bit ripped off if I was spending 100 bucks or more almost every year.

Quote

Also interesting the comments about security and innovation. Especially the security issue. The proper follow up question should have been-if Apple is so insecure, how come you don't have to buy security program for the Mac as of yet but MSFT decided to buy its own security company and their still is a recommendation for people to use such a program with Vista? The innovation comment is hard to get to the base of. Hard to know who came up with an idea to include. But it is not just the idea about what to do but how it is implemented that MSFT seems to copy.

Definitely a good read. Just my take on things.

Neal

Question: Why are there virtually no game titles on the Mac?
Answer: because the user base is very small and publishers will make more money developing for pc users.

Theives are in the business of making money.....targeting 2 or 3% of the market is a poor use of resources.

Is the RDF that surrounds all of you in the Mac camp.

Do you even know what the registry is you dullard?

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Guest wrote:
This week, my favourite bit of wasting time has been going stores with Vista PC's and going into the display preferences and switching the theme back to windows classic. Shows you how far they've gone...

i think all mac users should make it a point to do this the next time they click away on a Vista PC.

LOL. Dude, thats classic.

you

Bill Gates seems to have missed the point of the ads. The two characters are a PC and a Mac, not PC and Mac users. All kinds of clever, cool, good-looking PC users can look at their nerdy beige PC and wish it was cool too!

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Guest wrote:
I would imagine most of you would be eating a lot of crow if you could sit down for 30 with MS's security guys while they go over exploit after exploit for the Mac.

See, that's where the Reality Distortion Field comes into play. There are so many security issues (according to this individual) that 30 minutes with Microsoft's security team would terrify us.

But I don't use my Mac in the rarified atmosphere of a M$ security lab - I use it in the real world. And, in the real world, where we Mac users live, there are NO viral infections, NO adware, NO spyware, etc., etc.

If I ever get a job with Microsoft using my MacBook Pro, I'll keep what you've said in mind. Until then, let's have a little test. You eliminate ALL virus protection on your Windows machine, and let's see what happens over the next, oh, year or so.

Forget the RDF, forget the hoopla and the marketing slogans and commercials. Forget the op-ed pieces in the computing media. Forget Bill and Steve. Forget all of it, and just looks at the machines in the real world where real people use them.

In almost every scenario, Macs come out on top. Of course, Windows boxes do make pretty good game machines. But in my world of writing, teaching, research, music composition and recording, photography, graphics, and reliability, Macs win.

It isn't reality distortion if it is, in fact, reality.

Quote

Guest wrote:

Quote

nealg wrote:
It is a very interesting interview. Bill Gates sounds very defensive in this interview. I think he is getting tired of answering all the questions about the mac and apple when he really just wants to talk about Vista. Could some of this be that sales of Vista aren't what they should be?

MS gets the vast majority of its sales from new PCs. Many box makers said their 4th quarters were sluggish because people were holding off on making a purchase till Vista comes out. Do you immediately buy every new version of OSX?
I'd personally feel a bit ripped off if I was spending 100 bucks or more almost every year.

Quote

Also interesting the comments about security and innovation. Especially the security issue. The proper follow up question should have been-if Apple is so insecure, how come you don't have to buy security program for the Mac as of yet but MSFT decided to buy its own security company and their still is a recommendation for people to use such a program with Vista? The innovation comment is hard to get to the base of. Hard to know who came up with an idea to include. But it is not just the idea about what to do but how it is implemented that MSFT seems to copy.

Definitely a good read. Just my take on things.

Neal

Question: Why are there virtually no game titles on the Mac?
Answer: because the user base is very small and publishers will make more money developing for pc users.

Theives are in the business of making money.....targeting 2 or 3% of the market is a poor use of resources.

Actually, I thought most of MSFT's revenue came from the continuing licensing of their products, especially to the big companies but I may be mistaken about this. I think that the OS is significantly discounted to the cpu makers and the significantly increased price to consumer/upgrader makes up a fair amount of revenue.

As to the security issue, I find that the Guest doesn't answer the question and changes the topic. Typical thing when you don't have a good answer. Mac market share is still small but there have been many attempts to crack it unsuccessfully. No real exploits in the wild. And there will be plenty of crooks around willing to steal from 5% of installed computer base, just not as many that will want to go against the other 95%. It has also been much easier to target the other 95%. It remains to be seen how much Vista improves security in the wild. If it is so secure, will users be willing to go without security software running on their computer? I will grant that the smaller share adds some security but most honest security people will tell you that it is really based on the underpinnings of the OS.

But again, this is just my opinion. And I do hold stock in MSFT and AAPL so I do think both companies have potential.

Neal

Or perhaps we should say, “Bill Gates Sells Mac OS X?”

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Guest wrote:
The problem is the ads generally aren't funny. Often the things they've said are at best misleading and often flat out lies. I mean, come on. Putting together a PC is not hard. If you can connect your stereo to a Cassette Deck and CD player, you can put a Dell or HP machine together.

True, but then you would still be burdened with Windows so why waste your time?

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Guest wrote:
Do you even know what the registry is you dullard?

Yes, it is a system when you are getting married, or having a baby, you can register at store so you don't get duplicate and/or unwanted gifts.

A lot of us here use both systems, or switched from Windows so we understand the differences.

Haha, your all Apple tools. M$ blows too, but you people take the cake.

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Guest wrote:
Question: Why are there virtually no game titles on the Mac?
Answer: because the user base is very small and publishers will make more money developing for pc users.

Theives are in the business of making money.....targeting 2 or 3% of the market is a poor use of resources.

My feeling as to why there aren't has many Mac games, because we aren't all that interested in playing them. We create stuff.

So thieves don't want to target 2 or 3 % of the OS market (actually the Mac market share is higher), are you saying that Windows developers are crooks?

The challenge to hackers . . . remember "bring it on"?

I think the reason Mr Gates has taken offense to the ads is that the character which portrays the PC probably hits a little bit close to home. While not directly emulating him, the character is a close representation that he may feel the ads as almost a personal attack. Is his response professional? Nah, but I doubt he cares all that much.

Let me preface my next paragraph with the idea that I don't prefer either operating system. I use them both, and they're both resource hogs and hardly efficient. Both companies push for prettier GUI's and all it does it take your new powerful box and reduce its capability by wasting power on the OS.

As for OSX versus vista? OSX is based on unix, so it's hardly original. Security flaws? There simply aren't enough mac users to warrant the attacks for a phisher as compared to attacking the PC base. It's isn't necessarily more secure at all, but why write a program that can MAYBE hijack 1/10 users assuming they don't realize it, when you can write one that can be throw into the pond with the other 9/10 folks.

As for Vista, what did anyone expect? It's more of the same and it's prettier, with a few groundbreaking extra features and "improvements" that will be hardly noticeable after using it for a week, assuming one can even run their old software on it for that first week.

Yes this article is funny, yes Bill Gates is an awkward little tool who contributes millions of dollars each year to charities around the world as opposed to hoarding his profits, and yes Steve Jobs is an even BIGGER tool because of his cut throat business practices which he deems thinking differently. They're CEO's, they're jackasses.

As far as the mac vs pc war and the fanboys, find something better to do with your time. Maybe you've never tried to physically upgrade your mac before? I can tell you it's much easier now (assuming you're not on an imac) software wise. But until very recently one had severe limitations on hard drive manufacturers, memory manufacturers, and even usb devices. The reality is they're both just computers, and they have a LONG way to go.

Oh, Kudos for apple using intel chips, dual booting is sexy. Shame on Apple for not writing software compatible with anything but its own motherboards though, THINKING DIFFERENTLY!

It's funny that he would get upset after so long. Personally in the programming and gaming industry, we've all known about the PC MAC war (beyond the fanboy level). We've also always known about Mac fanboys (see all the above posts). The fact of the matter is, Windows is insanely popular, and has at least 1000x the amount of people working to create spyware, virus's, adware, etc. to exploit the OS. Mac's are kind of looked over. It is correct that Vista security is amazing. It actually is light years ahead of what Apple's dev team is cooking up. Also it is quite true that Apple has copied more from Windows then vice versa. Unfortunately, most people aren't bright enough to see why or how . Hint Hint, 'Windows'.

Well I hope my post sends at least a few of you uneducated Mac-addicts into a frothing rage of adamant ignorance.

I am not a zealot on one side or the other but it makes you wonder if Apple is so much better and it is so obvious that it is why don't more people use Apple computers?
That is what Apple should figure out.
It seems to me that when a company tries to show that their competition is some how weak or has a poor product they are the ones desperate for customers.
The #1 company in any given market got there for a reason.

Mark

Just a few quick notes:

1. according to Gartner Apple's market share is around 4.7%.
2. The Computer market is about a billion PCs, so 4.7% would be approximately 47 million units. At an average selling price of $1500, that is $7,050,000,000. While that is not all profit, a company with $7 billion+ in net sales over the years is not in bad shape.
3. Apple's computer buyers tend to be wealthier than a PC buyers. Targeting a wealthier demographic is not foolish, they have roughly the same market share as Mercedes. I know a Mercedes is a car and that it sells for significantly more than a PC but the practice is the same.
4. Apple's foray into CE world is pissing MS off the most, they have been trying to get their MPC concept out for 4-5 years with very little success. With the AppleTV, Apple looks to leapfrog over MS as they did with the iPod. The same goes for iTunes vs MS & partners media distribution networks. Furthermore, MS has been trying to position the X-Box 360 in the same place as the AppleTV, if Apple TV takes off that would screw those plans. MS nows this and cannot do much to counter it.

Jeremy

5 years from now I pods will have copied every thing from zume.

Dont care what u guys say about windows.Microsoft is a SOFTWARE COMPANY.Apple is a both.I dont have to buy Microsofts pc to run windows but I have to buy Apple's pc to run osx.Till i can run osx on my regular pc , i will never run osx and i bet 90% of pc users wont either.

I hope you dont have to by a zume or x box.

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Guest wrote:
Dont care what u guys say about windows.Microsoft is a SOFTWARE COMPANY.Apple is a both.I dont have to buy Microsofts pc to run windows but I have to buy Apple's pc to run osx.Till i can run osx on my regular pc , i will never run osx and i bet 90% of pc users wont either.

Let me break out my Faber-Castell 2H and make some corrections:

"Dont" should be "Don't"

"u" should be "you"

"windows" should be "Windows"

"Apple is a both.I don't…" should be "Apple is both. I don't…" At least there wasn't two spaces after the sentence stop.

"pc" should be "PC"

"Microsofts" should be "MicroSoft's"

"osx" should be "OSX"

"i" should be "I"

"wont" should be "won't"

I gotta run, I have a poster to design

You are correct about the importance of corporate upgrades being a (if not the) mainstay of MSFT bottom line.

Also to correct a misconception regarding stealing interfaces. Apple was given access and usage of the things they saw at PARC by Xerox. (firsthand account of a participant in the meeting employed by Xerox). The point about Amiga haing a menu interface in 85-86 is not relavent to the Macintosh as it was part of the Mac interface prior to this.

As to the security issue while I am a proponent of running antiviral Programs (ClamAV) and activating the built in firewall. I know many Mac users who get by without it. Remember someday there will be a non-trivial malware loose in the wild but for now I run them to prevent accidently passing somw sort of windows virus to Windows users.
br

"Also it is quite true that Apple has copied more from Windows then vice versa. Unfortunately, most people aren't bright enough to see why or how . Hint Hint, 'Windows'. "

Windows? That isn't ignorance, that is losing touch with reality.
br

Everyone here who keeps saying he is in his own world are worse than him. Fact is the Mac Ads are fat lies, and though some can see and take the joke, others take it seriously. It really doesn't even matter who had what first, because chances are it was already done before, or an idea simiular to one companies has already be some what done before they really thought of it. Mac = Original? Doubtfull, but nither is Microsoft. But I tell you what, if I'm wanting to actually be productive on a computer, or if I'm wanting to sit down and play games the mac isn't going to do that for me.

Also who wants to install windows on over priced mac hardware? Has apple lost it? The only attraction to Mac's is the OS. Give me the ability to install OSX on my PC and I might think about dual booting.

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TahoeJimRocks wrote:
I think Bill is use to having computer users blindly follow Microsoft. They really never considered Apple a true competitor. However, this seems to be changing. The spill over from the iPod into the Windows world is definitley having an impact on their bottom line. Reporters are asking the hard questions regarding comparisons between Apple's and Microsoft's OS because their is litte innovation after 5-7 years of work. I think a lot of people thought Vista would leap frog over OS X but it didn't -- it just (sort of) caught up. Wait until Leopard arrives, what will Bill say then?

Apple's marketing is obviously superior to Microsoft. The future looks bright for Apple.

I see what you are saying.

Definately apple has a good image. Probably part of what Gates was referring to about being cool.

The Ipod has brought a lot of attention to the 'apple' brand. no doubt a lot of people who didn't even *think* of apple as an option when they went for a computer upgrade are now considering it.

If my ipod works, why wouldn't my imac?

Also, the vast majority of users rely on office applications. When it comes to typing, printing, etc. pretty much *every* popular gui based OS in the world will work for you.

So really, it's a matter of willingness to try something new. Macs will fill most people's needs just fine. now that people are considering the apple brand seriously, it's an honest threat to MS.

The security thing does have a good bit of truth to it. Gates isn't toally off-beat.
You can set up good firewalls for any OS.
You can use strong passwords, etc, for any OS.
What makes linux and osx(or bsd) unique versus windows is the concept of a root user, and the prevalence of hte command console.

Unless you are running a terminal server, you can't really log into windows remotely and execute code. you basically have to use remote desktop. Using Remote desktop also informs the local user that someone is on there (because it kicks them off).

With linux/osx/bsd you can SSH right into a box and log in as root, and run anything your heart desires. Unless the local user is watching their process list, they won't know anything is going on. Windows just doesn't offer that kind of remote control.

What windows does have, is that it is popular. Because it's popular, it's the bullseye for virus writers.

When apple gets more well adopted, you will see a lot more apple security issues. For one, it will stop being cool because everyone has apples. Computer enthusiasts won't feel bad writing attacks on apple.

Second, it will suffer the same issues that linux does : Rootkits. (specifically the sub-kernel level attacks)
Because the system is well published (think darwin) it's not a big task to write an under-layer that can totally abstract itself to the os, and let someone gain full control of the system, while also being completely invisible to the actaul OS. AV software wouldn't even be able to see the attack because it could effectively maskarade as something as low level as hardware. (although, this sort of attack is extemely rare. but it is a complete takeover)

So far, this sort of attack on windows is nearly impossible to do in an undetectable manner.

Windows exploits aren't ususally OS faults (most aren't, for any os). The exploits are errors in popular software, that are abused to inject custom code into the stack. IE is still a program, even if it comes pre-installed with windows.

When firefox gets popular enough, you'll see more code injection attacks happening there too.

Security is so curcumstantial that it's hard to not see how Gates gets mad.

Sure, apple IS EFFECTIVELY safer than windows.
Is it any harder to actually attack and infiltrate? Nope!
It's just not a target.
Apple is usually cherished by the 'geeks'. It will take a lot of apple adoption for them to feel like apple is no longer 'their own little niche'.
Same goes for linux.

Getting back to the original point.
Ipod
There hasn't ever been a better advertisement for apple computers, than the ipod. People are thinking of the company.
Microsoft will most definately lose some install base because of the recent surge in apple's popularity. I would say it's thanks to the Ipod.

I'm totally sure most people that switch to Macs will be very happy with them.

I'm also tickled at the thought of the irony when macs lose their lustre and become a virus target. So many people will be shocked (becaue so many believe in the hype). The one truth is : every system can be compromised. So long as people write the software, there are cracks in the armour. Just wait till you're a target and your armour shows it's holes.

You would probably steal it instead of buying it anyway when you do get a chance to run it on your "regular pc." (Do a Google search; people have it running on other systems now.)

As for the talk about Mac OS not being a target because of its small userbase, someone rightly pointed out that small in this case is still 47 million people (60+ million depending on what stats you read). Plus, as we can see from the likes of MOAB and the wireless security "flaw," there is a lot of street cred to be had if you can crack a Mac. We should be getting more than our share of virii, trojans, and more due to people just wanting to wipe our smug faces in it, people wanting kudos from their black hat peers, and because according to so many anti-mac folks "the Mac has tons of exploits that just haven't been used yet because no one cares." Oh, they care, else you wouldn't be here bothering trying to save our puny naive little souls and switch us to Windoze.

I personally hope Vista is all it says it is and truly does help with security. Less work for me, so less money, though. Oh well. I have plenty of fun work to do besides recovering client's data from their compromised PCs.

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Guest wrote:
I am not a zealot on one side or the other but it makes you wonder if Apple is so much better and it is so obvious that it is why don't more people use Apple computers?

"DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form."
---New York Times, November 26, 1991