"She’s discovering that there are things Windows does that the Mac cannot." like exposing your data to trojan horses.

Seriously though, I'm not a Mac apologist. Among other things I'm a user interface designer and there arre things that drive me nuts about OSX. I wish her well with her transition... stinks that the platform isn't perfect.

GET ON THAT APPLE!!!

Under OSX that closing a document does not quit the application. Suppose you close a file and want to create a new document without waiting for the application to reload.

I TRIED to help a Windows using friend last week who TRIED to open a JPG from a photo disk. It kept asking for HPphoto or what the application was called, nothing else would open it. I had him email to me so I could email it back. We were communicating via telephone so I couldn't just take over his keyboard and outwit Windows.

I don't believe Mac OS X is perfect, but for those of you who help switchers, maybe you could remind them that it is also frustrating the other way round? Maybe I belong to a minority, or perhaps we are many, but I began my experience with computers on Macs and not that long ago, either. It took a couple of years before I had to use a Windows-PC and I found it very clumsy and backward.
I still do, but I understand that lot of that feelings stem from the fact that I am on foreign lands:)
My wife loves the Mac after having had and used only PCs but what she misses is a true Delete-key and after she had explained it to me, I can't understand why it doesn't exist on Apple's keyboards.
Just another little detail...

That said; I remember how someone struggled to find out how to change a file's name on the Desktop. When I showed him how, he was like; "Oh?"...

Hi,

Two things about the last post:
1) Windows programs don't close automatically when you close the document window. It depends on which x you click on (excel, word, etc. for example) Yes, some programs like IExplorer do though.
2) you can right click on a document and use the open with command so the picture you are talking about could be opend like this as well as other documents, whatever their extension.

B.

Hi,
Just use the command-backspace key to do a front delete.
B

Simply select the item and Apple-Z will undo the move to trash.

Yes, John, it will be funny to hear more from a newbie switcher as he/she continues to confuse themself with something different than that to which they are accustomed.

Gosh! Makes you wonder why anybody would do anything different at all.

Imagine the hilarity that would ensue should a McDonalds junkie go vegetarian. It'd be like: "Omigod, you have to, like peel the banana first? Like... how backward is that? Used to be the only accessory I needed for my dessert was a plastic spoon, and now I need to know stuff like how a vegetable steamer works? Are you kidding?"

Sheesh.

If switchers don't like what they find, then go the hell back. It'll save the rest of us with a clue a lot of time in answering stupid questions. Bah, humbug.

I think that having applications continue to run even if all windows are closed is something to celebrate. I regularly have 15 or 16 applications open at once--instantly available.

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Guest wrote:
Simply select the item and Apple-Z will undo the move to trash.

That only works if you realize you want to put the document back before you do *anything* else. This is a valid criticism.

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Guest wrote:
My wife loves the Mac after having had and used only PCs but what she misses is a true Delete-key and after she had explained it to me, I can't understand why it doesn't exist on Apple's keyboards.

This could be a localization thing, but what the hell are you talking about? On my Apple branded (US) keyboard there is delete key under the F13 key, and it works exactly like the Delete key did on the old ASR-33 Teletype. And there is a handy little forward delete key under the “help� key (which is under the F14 key). With them i am able to delete to the left, to the right, either one character at a time, or one word at a time (in combination with the option key).

@ coaten: LOL

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Guest wrote:

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Guest wrote:
Simply select the item and Apple-Z will undo the move to trash.

That only works if you realize you want to put the document back before you do *anything* else. This is a valid criticism.

There used to be a put away function under the classic MacOS which would return the file from whence it came (if that location still existed), but few people ever used it. I for one don’t miss it as most of the time, i’m not “dumpster diving,� and when i do, i can afford to move it where i want it. I suppose this could be a useful feature for folks who constantly throw away stuff they want to keep, but most of us aren’t like that.

"...a single document with one file extension on the Mac can have many programs that can open it. This makes a lot of sense for experienced users. But it made no sense for Mr. Yager's Switcher."

Um, excuse me but it's the same on a PC. Haven't you ever right-clicked on document and used the "Open With" command? If the document can be opened by more than one app, then you should see all the choices, or manually "Choose Program...".

I find that there are things on both systems that are completely anti-intuitive, and I don't think it's correct to say OS X is any more intuitive than any other operating system (modern, I should say).

I have yet to find a reasonable explanation why an application is downloaded as a .dmg, which after a double-click, magically turns into a mounted imaginary disc. After another double-click, a window opens and you can drag the app to your apps folder (or launch an installer). Then you have to clean up after yourself by ejecting the imaginary disc, and storing or trashing the .dmg file.

Is that process intuitive? Or am I just used to it? Whether it's better, or worse, than Windows, I don't know, but I wouldn't necessarily call it more intuitive.

Mistergsf wrote: "Um, excuse me but it's the same on a PC. Haven't you ever right-clicked on document and used the "Open With" command? If the document can be opened by more than one app, then you should see all the choices, or manually "Choose Program..."."

Indeed it is - however, you would be amazed how many "experienced" Windows users have no knowledge at all of the right mouse button.

I recall that Apple and the Apple community used to have a more consistent (militant?) approach to user-interface guidelines. With OS X, you can find plenty inconsistencies across Apple applications.

Case in point: The green button in iTunes has a unique function, and I can't think of a good reason why it should work different from every other window. To get the expected functionality, I think you have to option- or command-click it. Wouldn't you think the 'special' functionality should require the option- or command-click?

Personally, I think there are a couple of things Windows does a bit better, but I do not see any of the things mentioned in this article as being problems. First, why would I want the application to shut down when I close the last file? As long as I hit save on the last document I can just quit the application. Moreover, what if I am not finished with the application? Just because I close a document certainly doesn't mean I am done with the application. In addition, Apple originally marketed OSX as being able to keep all your favorite applications open all the time because inactive applications supposedly use very little memory. Windows, at least XP, allocates memory different then a Mac, and you hit system performance if you keep unused applications running. Moreover, I do not want a menu on my windows cluttering my windows.

Second, I cannot tell you how useful it is that many different applications can open a single extention (e..g. PDF). That for me is a huge feature not a problem. Moreover, in OSX you can easily set the default application that is used to open certain file extensions for individual files of for all such files. For instance, when I read PDFs I usually use Preview because it is far faster then with Adobe products (and Adobe products take forever to load on my Mac). Nonetheless, if I want to edit a PDF I want to open it with Acrobat or SmileonmyMac. I completely fail to see how this is a bad thing.

Third, why is number three a problem? I do not see how it is a bad thing for me to be able to drag my file from the trash to anywhere I want. Sure, maybe a so called restored button would be nice for some, but I never have seen a use for such a feature.

Things I do think Windows does better: 1. You can delete indivudal files from the trash. 2. Hitting the delete key on Windows will actually delete the file, not send it to the trash, and 3. You can personalize your cursor.

Finally, there are things the Mac can do that Windows cannot. When you switch OSes you should expect things to be different and there to be a slight learning curve.

I met compters at college. The Art lab had both and we were required to use both, Syatem 6 and Windows 3 with the DOS promt to get into Windows. I never had the confusion others did. My kids learned to use a Mac soley until they were high schoolers and went to work at the local library which was PC only. After 3 months they were both given a raise and made "Tech" support because they were constatnly solving problems for library and the library customers. When I asked them how they had learned Windows, they shrugged and said it was easy, you just had to approch it "logically". Since then I've encountered many longtime Mac users who pick up Windows quickly and many longtime PC users who usually take a month or two to get comfortable with. If they've woked with Windows for more then three versions they usually switch back after a week or so.

I think there are two reasons,
1. Windows really is a copy of the Mac and NeXt OS.
2. Some people are so left or right brained that they can't accept new things, Many Mac users are whole brained and caple of adapting much quicker.

There are definitely issues switching from one to the other in either direction, but I've noticed, both on this thread and in my personal experience trying to teach people to use Macs, that the problem people who "know" how to use windows run into the most is that Windows trains its users to perform tasks in a very specific way. Whether those methods are better or worse than how Apple has crafted similar functions into their OS is less important than the fact it conflicts with an ingrained way of doing things. Often the same task can be performed multiple ways on macs as well, and I've noticed that people who switch, particularly in work environments where the switch might not have been voluntary but in the interest of office compatibility, often lock into a specific method of doing things even if there are 3 different equally simple methods that I also demonstrated.

I think (and I've seen some attempts at showing it statistically in the past) that most basic os functions consist of less execution steps and are generally less complex on Mac OS than Windows. The flipside is that some of those functions and their related menus/preferences can be a bit more detailed in Windows, which is what leads many PC users to the cursory assumption that Windows is the more technically capable and complex of the two. Of course what makes OSX great is that behind the pretty GUI is a fully capable UNIX system that completely addresses anything you can't do with that GUI, but you have to get into the terminal and figure those things out more or less for yourself.

Both systems have room for improvement, and each should (and do) incorporate variations on the upgrades that their competitor makes to the UI and feature set with each release. Oddly enough that leads to tons of stupid "wow the new version of system XXXXX is stealing from the old version of YYYYY" flamewars on many an internet board, when really its just the health progression of software evolution.

I may have met computers at college, but I obviously have become lazy when spelling.

: )

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Guest wrote:
I may have met computers at college, but I obviously have become lazy when spelling.

: )

Not to worry, a lot of us have that problem and some of us, including me, are a bit dyslexic. Anyway in Safari, and many apps under OSX, you can check spelling as you type. Pull down the "Edit" menu, go to "Spelling", and then "Check Spelling as you type" Spelling errors will appear with a red underline.

I've now been a switcher for about 6 weeks. After practicing law with PC's for 15 years I finally bought the mac I started pining away for over 20 years ago (remember the ones that said "hello" when you turned them on?

I am a VERY experienced windows user and there are things to "re-learn" but it really isn't much and now having the ability to turn it on and start working or doing fun things immediatly is wonderful. Switchers should consider it an investment. A little time up front learning the system .. no time later doing anti virus, anti spyware, anti phish, virus updates, blue screens, unexplained system restartes, etc. etc. etc.

One of the things that really made it easy for me was all of the web resources and helpful mac owners. Indeed .. in just six weeks I've gone from novice switcher to now helping other people in my life make the transition.

I'm drinking the mac cool aid and its delicious

Oh, how I miss the "Put Away" command. That was one of the most useful tools for me in the pre-osx days. Back then, I could drag a bunch of files to the desktop from some other location, work on them, and then cmd+y and they'd go back to their original homes. It made the desktop truly feel like a desktop, and not just another folder.

Man, I wish they'd bring that back.

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yoyo52 wrote:
I think that having applications continue to run even if all windows are closed is something to celebrate. I regularly have 15 or 16 applications open at once--instantly available.

and even cooler, clicking on the icon in the dock not only opens the app that had no windows open, but it also typically creates a new, blank document ready for you to use. I do like this feature--usually.

-Jon

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Guest wrote:

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Guest wrote:
Simply select the item and Apple-Z will undo the move to trash.

That only works if you realize you want to put the document back before you do *anything* else. This is a valid criticism.

This is one of my gripes with X, too. The System _used_ to have this feature. It was very simple. Hilite the icon in the trash, and hit command-Y or choose "Put Away" from the Finder's File menu, and the item went right back where it cam from. Apple _removed_ this feature! And I _still_ don't now why.

-Jon

_why_ do people _do_ this?

I find it _very_ annoying and _hard_ to _read_

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Guest wrote:
_why_ do people _do_ this?

I find it _very_ annoying and _hard_ to _read_

Because some people don't know how to create italics using code.

If you type "quotes" (the straight kind), they will display. But if you type “curly quotes�, they may not display properly, and you will get _curly quotes_. This is <i>italics</i>.

Although this has been discussed here, it still isn't completely clear. Windows users are struggling with the concept of Mac's ability to have different apps assigned to different files with the same extension. Using already mentioned example, PDF. There is a way to assign (to be precise, force-assign) an application as default for a specific file type (i.e. extension). Say, force 'Preview' to open PDF files when you double-click on them. You can, independently, assign 'Acrobat Professional' for any specific file, thereby overriding the default assignment. Whenever you double-click that one particular file, it will open in Acrobat Pro, rather than Preview. Other files, without specific assignment, will open in Preview.

The point of this switcher is, on Windows, you double-click a file, it will ALWAYS open in its default application. If you want to open it in something else, you have to go through this song-and-dance routine: right-click on the icon; then left-click on 'Open with..'; then hope that the app of choice will be on the little menu; if it's not, click on 'Choose Program...'; then, wait for about five minutes, until Windows figures out what apps it has installed; then scroll through an endless list of totally unrelated apps (How is Skype going go open PDF file???), find the app you want, click on it's name, then click on OK. Voila! Your file is finally opening in an app other than default. Just five click and a scroll through a list, with a bit of a wait and it's done! </end of sarcasm>

While I know there are things that confound and frustrate the h&ll out of switchers, I would like to hear about them (I mean really significant, performance-affecting ones). While it is generally accepted that OS X is more efficient than any Windows, there is plenty of room for improvement. (by the way, the generally accepted view is supported by a scientific study that compared number of clicks and average time needed to perform common and less common OS functions between Mac OS X, Win XP, Win2K and Vista; Vista came in dead last...)

hughster opines: "Indeed it ["Open with" with right-click] is - however, you would be amazed how many "experienced" Windows users have no knowledge at all of the right mouse button."

This is irrelevant.

Sorry I didn't read all the posts so don't know if this was mentioned. Many have commented on how nice it is if a program closes when the last window is closed. Personally, I'm in the camp that thinks the way Mac handles this is much more elegant.
What I have not seen commented on is the reverse situation. What if one has many windows open in one application and wants to quit the application. In windows I have to go through and close each and every window. If I have 10 windows open in IE, I have to click 10 times to close them and the program. (Maybe there is an easier way, but I haven't found it) In OS X, if I have 10 windows open in Safari, I go to the (always in the same place) menu and select Quit Safari. Guess what? Program and all windows close. I can't believe anyone would think the Windows way is better. The difference is laughable!

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Guest wrote:

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Guest wrote:
Simply select the item and Apple-Z will undo the move to trash.

That only works if you realize you want to put the document back before you do *anything* else. This is a valid criticism.

I miss the "Put Away" command that disappeared with OS 9. Files would remember where they came from, and Put Away would send them back whether they were in the trash or on the Desktop. I'd like to see it return.

Not sure what that is. Could someone elaborate?

In Windows, it's all to easy to let the cursor slide past the top of the window when aiming for a menu item. Then one has to backtrack and re-aim. On the Mac, the top of the screen blocks the cursor, traps it in the menu bar, and provides a limit, stopping this overshoot. Then one merely needs to slide the cursor sideways.

Many people find the Mac technique helpful and never consciously put their finger on this human interface aid. They just know they like the Mac. Some PC people, perhaps experienced in video games and possessing great eye-hand coordination, don't seem to notice their cursor overshooting the top of the window and can quickly correct. Or they've just learned to live with it after years and years. J.M.

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Guest wrote:
I have yet to find a reasonable explanation why an application is downloaded as a .dmg, which after a double-click, magically turns into a mounted imaginary disc. After another double-click, a window opens and you can drag the app to your apps folder (or launch an installer). Then you have to clean up after yourself by ejecting the imaginary disc, and storing or trashing the .dmg file.

Is that process intuitive? Or am I just used to it? Whether it's better, or worse, than Windows, I don't know, but I wouldn't necessarily call it more intuitive.

It's not particularly intuitive, but it has some advantages. (Apple has been using disk images for a long, long time. In the "classic" OS, they were .img files.) It allows the developer to do everything that one can do with a CD (or used to do with a floppy). For example, there can be several installers for different versions/OSes, Read Me files (especially files on how to install the application), extras (e.g., demos of other applications, sample scripts/automations, clip art), and more. It also allows the developer to make a nice-looking background. Yes, you can do that in the Finder, but it will NOT survive zipping ("Create archive ...") nor through Stufit.

From the developer's standpoint, there's another advantage: the disk images are not closed. The developer can move files in and out just as on a mounted HD.

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Guest wrote:
If you type &quot;quotes&quot; (the straight kind), they will display. But if you type “curly quotes�, they may not display properly, and you will get _curly quotes_. This is <i>italics</i>.

Uh, no, it's not. That's HTML. This forum, like many, uses BBCode, which uses square brackets [], not pointy brackets <>, for tags. There are other differences. The easy way to see this and learn it is to post a message, then click on "Edit" and you'll get a different window that has the formatting options. You can also go to the TMO FAQ on BBCode.

I just discovered this weekend that when you quit an application in OS X, it doesn't completely go away. It stops executing, but remains in memory, just in case you want to restart it!! This is the explanation for the "blue" sections in the memory usage pie chart of the activity monitor. Only if that memory is needed by other or new applications does it get reclaimed. I had always wondered what the "active memory" was, as apposed to "free memory" (as explained in Activity Monitor help). In windoze, once an application is closed, it seems that it must reload, as it takes a noticeable amount of time. I like the fact that OS X does not quit the application, on closing the last window, especially if one closes the last window accidently!