What game console and entertainment division does apple have? And do they supply Blu-ray?

useless comparison.

Add in Sony instead and then you've got a useful comparison..

Wow. Just wow. Perhaps an article about how GM is losing money which is in contrast to Apple? Or how Ford is finally making money which is more similar to Apple? Good lord.

Maybe TMO should open a req for a replacement who can actually write intelligent content for this site. I miss the way TMO used to be before it was all this mindless filler crap.

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Biff wrote:
Maybe TMO should open a req for a replacement who can actually write intelligent content for this site. I miss the way TMO used to be before it was all this mindless filler crap.

That's a bit harsh.
M$ is the big player in the computer field. Even Macs use MS software. That a M$ division lost almost $2bn is newsworthy. No it doesn't directly impact Macs and Apple. A lot of significant news doesn't, but I still want to hear about it.

If you want TMO to be a Mac News Only site, fine. That would mean it gets updated just a couple of times per day, or less. The result would be a much less interesting and well rounded site. TMO is where I go to find out about Mac news, and other industry news that might impact me and my users. Mac centric, yes, but not to the point of xenophobia.

Some articles on TMO don't interest me, like todays story about Scenario Poker for the iPhone. You know what? I don't read them. But that doesn't make them 'mindless filler crap'. In this case I don't own an Xbox, or any other player. But I know people who do and who come to me as the local 'computer guy' to ask what they should get. This story gives me useful information to answer their question.

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Biff wrote:

Maybe TMO should open a req for a replacement who can actually write intelligent content for this site. I miss the way TMO used to be before it was all this mindless filler crap.

In my humble opinion, John Martellano is one of the most intelligent writers out there, when it comes to writing about Mac so it would be a real loss if he would be replaced. What was not so intelligent was this comment. Rather mindless, if you ask me;)

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Guest wrote:
What game console and entertainment division does apple have? And do they supply Blu-ray?

useless comparison.

Add in Sony instead and then you've got a useful comparison..

Does Microsoft make computers? Phones?

The point is that, much of the time, when MS has tried to branch out into areas outside of Windows, Office, and other software, it has not done very well. (Their keyboards, mice, and games controllers are pretty good.) The dominance of Windows traces back, I think, to the fact that most (neaerly all, actually) early PCs were bought by businesses and government agencies. They were far too expensive for most people to own. (My Apple //c was about $2,000 in 1984.) Innovation was not highly prized versus standardization and initial cost.

In consumer electronics, however, Microsoft has had to compete with companies whose metier is innovation, like Nintendo and even Sony. Microsoft couldn't even design its own music player--the Zune is basically a rebranded Toshiba player with wireless capability.

Contrast that with Apple's innovations that led to major changes in the industry and society.

- The Macintosh. Youngsters may not realize the impact the original Mac had, despite its high price.

- The PowerBook. Again, youngsters may not remember that Apple was a dominant force in laptops early on. I bought a PowerBook 100 in 1992. It was smaller and lighter than any other portable computer at the time, partly because it used an external floppy drive and had no optical drive. The PowerBook Duos were smaller, yet.

- The iMac. Apple had devolved into YACC--yet another computer company, with an oddball OS and computers that, for the most part, looked like every other computer (with a few exceptions). The iMac changed the computer industry and turned Apple around.

- OS X. Remember that OS X came out about the same time (2001) as Windows XP. Contrast the continual improvements to OS X with the more-or-less static situation of XP.

- The iPod. Yes, it has a CPU, but people don't think of it as a "computer." There were other music players, but the iPod caused the explosion in the market. It was easy to use and, probably more important, easy to manage, thanks to iTunes. The iPod has probably had a greater impact on society than any other piece of consumer electronics since the invention of the cell phone. (See below. <G>) How many cars come with built-in interfaces for other consumer electronics devices?

- iLife. No other computer system has such an easy-to-use, integrated suite of multimedia software.

- Apple retail stores, which have (if I recall correctly) the highest revenue per square foot of any retail outlets in the US.

- Intel Macs. While this may not seem a great innovation--Windows PCs have been using the same CPUs for quite a while, the ability to use both OS X and Windows natively on the same computer is.

- The iPhone.

(I won't include the Apple TV--yet. Its day will come, when there is significant HD content available. It's still innovative, however.)

These are all products that Apple has done well.

What has Microsoft done in the past five years? It finally came out with Vista, which seems to be doing OK, though probably not as well as XP or Windows 2000 did in the same time frame. Its other ventures--the Spot Watch, Zune, Xbox, etc., have pretty much been failures. (The Media PC may be an exception, but that is software.) To see the effect, look at stock prices. The numbers are estimates from Yahoo charts.

One year:

AAPL +115%
MSFT +22% (about tracking the DJI)

Two years:

AAPL +220%
MSFT +22% (less than the DJI)

Five years:

AAPL +1500+%
MSFT +40+% (significantly less than the DJI)

In other words, you would have done better to invest in an index fund than in Microsoft, while Apple investors have made bundles of money.

Even ignoring the billion dollar charge they lost 890 million, and sold only 700 thousand. So they lost more than $1000 for each box sold. That's pretty impressive.

So they take stock splits into account?

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hughster wrote:
So they take stock splits into account?

Yes. The prices are adjusted for the split in early 2005. I think that they adjust the prices in the chart for the period before the split. Go to Yahoo.com and check their stock charts. Get AAPL and look at the 1 year, 2 year, and 5 year graphs. You can compare them to DELL, MSFT, and the averages, as well. The default comparison chart is logarithmic, which is more compact, but harder to read and interpret (and leads to misleading statements, as we've seen in the past), but you can choose a linear scale.

Wii!

It's true that a better comparison would be with the Wii and the PS3. However, this is still newsworthy in that it shows yet again how Monoposoft's megalomania is becoming their downfall.

My brother in law has an X-360 and it's a POS. In less than an hour of gaming at his house the thing locked up four times on three different games, requiring a hard reset each time.

I'm sticking with my GameCube for now, and when I get a bit of spare cash, I'll get a Wii.

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Tiger wrote:
Wii!

Microsoft's problem is that it was in such a rush to beat Sony out the door that it didn't have time to adequently test the product out. Now it is paying the price. I suspect Sony's PS3 will not suffer the same problems. I am rooting for the Wii, however, given time I think Sony's PS3 will be the ultimate machine to beat (assuming Sony is still around).

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Guest wrote:
It's true that a better comparison would be with the Wii and the PS3. However, this is still newsworthy in that it shows yet again how Monoposoft's megalomania is becoming their downfall.

My brother in law has an X-360 and it's a POS. In less than an hour of gaming at his house the thing locked up four times on three different games, requiring a hard reset each time.

I'm sticking with my GameCube for now, and when I get a bit of spare cash, I'll get a Wii.

They write off the repairs this year at a huge loss which covers current warranties too, so they can call next year profitable, although over all the whole Xbox operation is still running in the RED!

Like Balmer says, expect to wait a few years before seeing any return on any MS investments, which is what he'll be saying again in a few more years.

MS is on the decline and Windows is the only thing slowing that decline.

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Biff wrote:
Wow. Just wow. Perhaps an article about how GM is losing money which is in contrast to Apple? Or how Ford is finally making money which is more similar to Apple? Good lord.

Maybe TMO should open a req for a replacement who can actually write intelligent content for this site. I miss the way TMO used to be before it was all this mindless filler crap.

Sorry Dude... that's just retarded! I mean like c'mon, I've read some of YOUR poop before. I think you and Bosco should make up and have kids. oooh, maybe not, they might be "oxymorons"!

They have spent about $23 BILLION including the writeoff on the Xbox division with sales of around $6 BILLION - in essence even if they turn a profit next year (unlikely as Xbox name is poison to most consumers (Ford Explorer) - that leaves $17 BILLION in the hole the stockholders have essentually spent.

How many startups can you fund with $17 billion?

What have they got for $17 BILLION? 10 million Xbox 360 users (never mind 4 million have defective machines) ... they'd would have actually lost less money just taping $300 to an empty box.

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jbelkin wrote:
What have they got for $17 BILLION? 10 million Xbox 360 users (never mind 4 million have defective machines) ... they'd would have actually lost less money just taping $300 to an empty box.

That's a quote worth stealing!

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Anonymous wrote:
Even ignoring the billion dollar charge they lost 890 million, and sold only 700 thousand. So they lost more than $1000 for each box sold. That's pretty impressive.

11.6 million xbox 360's have been shipped. Each xbox 360 is sold at a loss of $100 just for parts.

The problem with the xbox 360 is heat. It runs too hot. Initial reports of the xbox 360 were that it was going to be water cooled, but unfortunately when it came to production, the unit was not water cooled, only air cooled. This is why the units are having so many problems. The $1.15 billion spent on extending the warranties of the xbox 360 would have been better spent before they were sold on a water cooled version of the xbox 360.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEVpZZAklllHlcrxQY.php

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gslusher wrote:

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Guest wrote:
What game console and entertainment division does apple have? And do they supply Blu-ray?

useless comparison.

Add in Sony instead and then you've got a useful comparison..

Does Microsoft make computers? Phones?

The point is that, much of the time, when MS has tried to branch out into areas outside of Windows, Office, and other software, it has not done very well. (Their keyboards, mice, and games controllers are pretty good.) The dominance of Windows traces back, I think, to the fact that most (neaerly all, actually) early PCs were bought by businesses and government agencies. They were far too expensive for most people to own. (My Apple //c was about $2,000 in 1984.) Innovation was not highly prized versus standardization and initial cost.

In consumer electronics, however, Microsoft has had to compete with companies whose metier is innovation, like Nintendo and even Sony. Microsoft couldn't even design its own music player--the Zune is basically a rebranded Toshiba player with wireless capability.

Contrast that with Apple's innovations that led to major changes in the industry and society.

- The Macintosh. Youngsters may not realize the impact the original Mac had, despite its high price.

- The PowerBook. Again, youngsters may not remember that Apple was a dominant force in laptops early on. I bought a PowerBook 100 in 1992. It was smaller and lighter than any other portable computer at the time, partly because it used an external floppy drive and had no optical drive. The PowerBook Duos were smaller, yet.

- The iMac. Apple had devolved into YACC--yet another computer company, with an oddball OS and computers that, for the most part, looked like every other computer (with a few exceptions). The iMac changed the computer industry and turned Apple around.

- OS X. Remember that OS X came out about the same time (2001) as Windows XP. Contrast the continual improvements to OS X with the more-or-less static situation of XP.

- The iPod. Yes, it has a CPU, but people don't think of it as a "computer." There were other music players, but the iPod caused the explosion in the market. It was easy to use and, probably more important, easy to manage, thanks to iTunes. The iPod has probably had a greater impact on society than any other piece of consumer electronics since the invention of the cell phone. (See below. <G>) How many cars come with built-in interfaces for other consumer electronics devices?

- iLife. No other computer system has such an easy-to-use, integrated suite of multimedia software.

- Apple retail stores, which have (if I recall correctly) the highest revenue per square foot of any retail outlets in the US.

- Intel Macs. While this may not seem a great innovation--Windows PCs have been using the same CPUs for quite a while, the ability to use both OS X and Windows natively on the same computer is.

- The iPhone.

(I won't include the Apple TV--yet. Its day will come, when there is significant HD content available. It's still innovative, however.)

These are all products that Apple has done well.

What has Microsoft done in the past five years? It finally came out with Vista, which seems to be doing OK, though probably not as well as XP or Windows 2000 did in the same time frame. Its other ventures--the Spot Watch, Zune, Xbox, etc., have pretty much been failures. (The Media PC may be an exception, but that is software.) To see the effect, look at stock prices. The numbers are estimates from Yahoo charts.

One year:

AAPL +115%
MSFT +22% (about tracking the DJI)

Two years:

AAPL +220%
MSFT +22% (less than the DJI)

Five years:

AAPL +1500+%
MSFT +40+% (significantly less than the DJI)

In other words, you would have done better to invest in an index fund than in Microsoft, while Apple investors have made bundles of money.

Does anyone know if Microsoft sold off the 9 million common stock shares they converted from 74,250 shares of preferred in 2000 and the 9.2 million common stock shares they converted from 75,750 shares of preferred in 2001? If Microsoft never sold off those shares, they're sitting on 54.4 million shares of Apple.

The point is Microsoft is losing big money and Apple is profitable in all areas because of superior products and design. Microsoft's Xbox problems in quality with a 33% DOA rate has something to do with it too. I wouldn't buy an Xbox now until there is more news that the new design actually fixes there DOA rate. This maybe significant this Christmas if they don't get positive feedback from there Billion dollar fix. PS3 and Wii could clean up this coming Christmas.
And who knows what Apple has up it sleaves. Leopard will for sure be making strong gains this coming October or November time frame.

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daemon wrote:

Does anyone know if Microsoft sold off the 9 million common stock shares they converted from 74,250 shares of preferred in 2000 and the 9.2 million common stock shares they converted from 75,750 shares of preferred in 2001? If Microsoft never sold off those shares, they're sitting on 54.4 million shares of Apple.

Well, if you can believe Wikipedia, they sold that stock off. No citation, though.

This is a pro mac site - it goes without saying that content writers are going to struggle *not* to take a swipe at microsoft when the opening presents itself... and lets face it a1.89 b loss is one hell of an opening
Me, i just think its karma for the "apple is doomed crap" we've had over the years. hell johns probably just feelin good cos apple is doing so well and who could blame him ?