People with Intel Macs are not people deciding between upgrading 10.4 to either 10.5 or Vista. They might buy Vista as well, but not 'instead of'. And for people without Intel Mac's [as in, non Mac's], 10.5 isn't a choice for them unless they actually buy a Mac.

There's what, a fraction of 1% of Intel Mac owners that would purchase XP and/or Vista, and just use Mac Intels because of Apple's hardware quality/fit/finish.

somebody missed the boat on cause and effect here. The thread would better be focused on simple Pre-sales of Leopard.

Like the 15 copies I ordered today! Sweet.

People who don't like Vista don't buy Leopard, they buy a Mac. Leopard won't do you any good without one.

Windows users arent buying new hardware, they are switching from Vista to Ubuntu. If Apple ever wanted to capitalize on Vista dissatisfaction all they need to is add more hardware support to OS X and release it onto the PC market.

This doesn't seem like a real article. Where are the sources? What makes the author suggest the connection that the increased sales are due to Vista besides these three people? And this is kind of a self selected group of people to poll, no? They've all chosen to deal in Apple products; I really doubt there's any objectiveness here.

But what about games?

Where are the games?

or maybe they also need to take a peek at the new flavor of ubuntu.

I'm a Windows user, and I'm very interested in getting OS X, and I'm willing to buy new hardware to do it. The new features being advertised in Leopard look great, and the reviews of the existing OS X from my Unix and Windows friends are great. If the new features pan out for others, then it is very likely I will buy a Mac. Mac's switch to Intel is also critical for me, since I want to have the option to boot Windows on the same system.

I have zero interest in getting Vista. For me at least, the article is accurate. Vista offers nothing that I want over XP. Mac OS X does offer stuff that I want over XP. With Microsoft having just released Vista, it is safe to assume that it will be a few years before they release anything new, so I can either have stuff I want now with OS X, or I can wait a few years to see if Microsoft does right on their next attempt.

The only people preordering Leopard are existing Mac owners, so dissatisfaction with Vista can't possibly have anything to do with it. how would "some solution providers" know anyway?

Anything to take another swipe at Microsoft, right? When will Apple and its community grow up?

Preorders are up because there's more Mac owners to preorder, Mac owners have to have the latest, and there's high demand because the product has been heavily advertised and is late. Vista sucking is irrelevant.

No, for you the article isn't accurate. You aren't preordering Leopard, and anyone who IS preordering Leopard is not in your situation.

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Guest wrote:
I'm a Windows user, and I'm very interested in getting OS X, and I'm willing to buy new hardware to do it. The new features being advertised in Leopard look great, and the reviews of the existing OS X from my Unix and Windows friends are great. If the new features pan out for others, then it is very likely I will buy a Mac. Mac's switch to Intel is also critical for me, since I want to have the option to boot Windows on the same system.

I have zero interest in getting Vista. For me at least, the article is accurate. Vista offers nothing that I want over XP. Mac OS X does offer stuff that I want over XP. With Microsoft having just released Vista, it is safe to assume that it will be a few years before they release anything new, so I can either have stuff I want now with OS X, or I can wait a few years to see if Microsoft does right on their next attempt.

Maybe you should try Linux before buy an apple...

Why dont people get it Apple is in the hardware business that make software to sell more hardware. OS X will never come on a pc because that would there will be no need to buy apple's iMac or MacBooks where apple makes its profits

obviously newbies prefer a simple operating system like leopard.

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Anonymous wrote:
Why dont people get it Apple is in the hardware business that make software to sell more hardware. OS X will never come on a pc because that would there will be no need to buy apple's iMac or MacBooks where apple makes its profits

Bashing vista over a completely different operating system platform sounds stupid. )

I wrote the "article is right for me" comment. You responders are right, I wasn't thinking. (Only 4 hours of sleep, woke up, blearily read article and mindlessly typed comment. Dumb move on my part in multiple ways).

Seems like I fell into the same trap as the article author. Though, the responses to me about how only existing Mac owners would pre-order Leopard made more sense than the responses directed to the article author.

To others on Linux: I have tried Linux numerous times, starting in the 90s onward: Slackware, Red Hat, Debian, Gentoo (great for an old P3 450ish), Ubuntu. At various times it has been my only operating system for months at a stretch. Can never quite get into it. All the usual reasons, plus the lack of consistency between commands and apps doesn't help. (QNX does well here though). There just seem to be too many competing system designs and lack of adherence to any given structure in the system to make it a joy to use. That anarchic sense is fun in some ways, but it also usually grinds me down over time.

The reason Linux has failed to take off (though it COULD one day) is the fact that it's for computer people. Period. It's not for the desktop publishing market, the creative arts market, video, etc. There are no real apps that are commercially viable right now to compete. It's a geeks OS if you will. Not to say that it won't ever, but to date, the platform still lacks seriously in those areas, so you don't get consumers much either. I look forward to learning Linux. I start Tuesday. But considering my occupation is communications and public relations, it will do NOTHING for my job.

My wife got a Mac earlier this year because of Vista suckage. it was time to upgrade, she didn't want to deal with Vista, so she got a Mac. Therefore, her pre-order of Leopard is due to Vista suckage. This makes the article accurate for some situations.

Since the last version of OSX, the market share of Macs have close to doubled. Half of this is since Vista came out. To say the two cannot be related at all is as absurd as saying the two are completely unrelated. This is at least some causation.

...well, that's whats comin'

"obviously newbies prefer a simple operating system like leopard."

Yes, if you define an OS that works as being simple.
Oh and i've used Windows since 3.1 so the newbie label doesn't fit.

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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:18 am — preposterous

The only people preordering Leopard are existing Mac owners, so dissatisfaction with Vista can't possibly have anything to do with it. how would "some solution providers" know anyway?

Anything to take another swipe at Microsoft, right? When will Apple and its community grow up?

Preorders are up because there's more Mac owners to preorder, Mac owners have to have the latest, and there's high demand because the product has been heavily advertised and is late. Vista sucking is irrelevant.

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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:34 pm — Accurate for some.

My wife got a Mac earlier this year because of Vista suckage. it was time to upgrade, she didn't want to deal with Vista, so she got a Mac. Therefore, her pre-order of Leopard is due to Vista suckage. This makes the article accurate for some situations.

Since the last version of OSX, the market share of Macs have close to doubled. Half of this is since Vista came out. To say the two cannot be related at all is as absurd as saying the two are completely unrelated. This is at least some causation.

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burreyeann wrote:

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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:18 am — preposterous

The only people preordering Leopard are existing Mac owners, so dissatisfaction with Vista can't possibly have anything to do with it. how would "some solution providers" know anyway?

Anything to take another swipe at Microsoft, right? When will Apple and its community grow up?

Preorders are up because there's more Mac owners to preorder, Mac owners have to have the latest, and there's high demand because the product has been heavily advertised and is late. Vista sucking is irrelevant.

and

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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:34 pm — Accurate for some.

My wife got a Mac earlier this year because of Vista suckage. it was time to upgrade, she didn't want to deal with Vista, so she got a Mac. Therefore, her pre-order of Leopard is due to Vista suckage. This makes the article accurate for some situations.

Since the last version of OSX, the market share of Macs have close to doubled. Half of this is since Vista came out. To say the two cannot be related at all is as absurd as saying the two are completely unrelated. This is at least some causation.

The second guest is right. I have a relative who is a PC enthusiast (not of M$), who builds his own computers. He has always used the latest M$ OS. He is now considering buying a Mac in part because of "Vista suckage". He has used my Mac on occasion and found that it can do everything his PC can do.

That's absurd. How on earth does apple switching to intel mean that people don't need to worry about choosing between os x and windows? Either the people being paraphrased are idiots who have no idea about the products they're selling, or you're going to have thousands of very unhappy deluded people who will be calling geek squad to find out why leopard doesn't have a setup.exe file to run.

daemon wrote:

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I'm sorry, but a PC enthusiast builds his computers himself. Buying a premade PC (Apple or anything else) is typically anathema. Further, Apple continues to use sub enthusiast parts at enthusiast prices, which typically makes enthusiasts less than eager to purchase over-priced over-hyped hardware. To continue, being able to "do everything his PC can do" is only part of the equation, after all, my laptop can do everything my gaming rig can do, just not nearly as well. Further, I'm sure what you meant was that you can run Windows on your Mac allowing the Mac to run any software title out for Windows, this seems to me to defeat the entire purpose of buying a Mac, but I'm sure for every person that buys a Mac only to install Windows on it thrills the hell out of Microsoft.

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burreyeann wrote:
daemon wrote:

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Further, Apple continues to use sub enthusiast parts at enthusiast prices, which typically makes enthusiasts less than eager to purchase over-priced over-hyped hardware.

What exactly do you mean by "over-priced over-hyped hardware", you sound like Paul Thurrott.

I am one of the halo effect numbers. After having purchased only my second mobile phone (my first was the first tri-band to appear), I am hooked likely for life on Macs. And I have an army colonel about to retire, his son and an air force sergeant who too want a phone like mine. They will likely wait for the phone (statoned in South America) but both men are thinking of following me and buying a Mac. If it is anything even half the fun of an iPhone, I'll be singing it's praises too!

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Anonymous wrote:
I am one of the halo effect numbers. After having purchased only my second mobile phone (my first was the first tri-band to appear), I am hooked likely for life on Macs. And I have an army colonel about to retire, his son and an air force sergeant who too want a phone like mine. They will likely wait for the phone (statoned in South America) but both men are thinking of following me and buying a Mac. If it is anything even half the fun of an iPhone, I'll be singing it's praises too!

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Guest wrote:
That's absurd. How on earth does apple switching to intel mean that people don't need to worry about choosing between os x and windows? Either the people being paraphrased are idiots who have no idea about the products they're selling, or you're going to have thousands of very unhappy deluded people who will be calling geek squad to find out why leopard doesn't have a setup.exe file to run.

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Guest wrote:
And for people without Intel Mac's [as in, non Mac's], 10.5 isn't a choice for them unless they actually buy a Mac.

Not only did I return Vista for a refund and use the money to buy my first Mac (The latest Mini) but it made me swear off Windows forever, and motivated me to create an anti Windows blog (http://vistasucks.wordpress.com)

I intead to buy Leopard as soon as I see it on a shelf.
And my MacBook Pro (which I intend to buy soon) will have it pre-installed.

Been using it for several months, and converted most of our corporate office to it, and started deploying it to field offices as their systems need replacing.

It works fine, the benefits of Vista are subtle (search, for example, or UAC (which IS a blessing to admins!) and it's certainly better on a security front. You'll notice MOST of the problems of late don't affect Vista (nothing's perfect).

To date we have a single vertical market app that doesn't run under Vista, a payroll program that won't, and a specialized badge printer that won't. We're updating the payroll program (for unrelated reasons) to a newer version that will run under Vista.

The vertical market app--well, it took them 5 years to create hardware for the *PCI* slot and just as long to switch from 98SE to XP, so I won't hold my breath.

Oh, and the last pair of Vista business systems I bought (yesterday)? They cost $349 apiece! (Powerspec B600). That means Vista machines aren't even terribly expensive. Try buying a brand new Mac for $349.

Everything else works just fine and has for months. It plays well in a mixed server/Active Directory environment with Win2k, 2k3, and 2k3 x64 servers.

How then, does Vista suck?

Personally, I think the article is a trainload of bovine processed grass.

QFT

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Guest wrote:
Been using it for several months, and converted most of our corporate office to it, and started deploying it to field offices as their systems need replacing.

It works fine, the benefits of Vista are subtle (search, for example, or UAC (which IS a blessing to admins!) and it's certainly better on a security front. You'll notice MOST of the problems of late don't affect Vista (nothing's perfect).

To date we have a single vertical market app that doesn't run under Vista, a payroll program that won't, and a specialized badge printer that won't. We're updating the payroll program (for unrelated reasons) to a newer version that will run under Vista.

The vertical market app--well, it took them 5 years to create hardware for the *PCI* slot and just as long to switch from 98SE to XP, so I won't hold my breath.

Oh, and the last pair of Vista business systems I bought (yesterday)? They cost $349 apiece! (Powerspec B600). That means Vista machines aren't even terribly expensive. Try buying a brand new Mac for $349.

Everything else works just fine and has for months. It plays well in a mixed server/Active Directory environment with Win2k, 2k3, and 2k3 x64 servers.

How then, does Vista suck?

Personally, I think the article is a trainload of bovine processed grass.

Guest Wrote: "Everything else works just fine and has for months. It plays well in a mixed server/Active Directory environment with Win2k, 2k3, and 2k3 x64 servers.
How then, does Vista suck?"

Amen. I have both a Mac (Tiger 10.4) and a PC (Vista Home Premium) and you know what? I like them both. Neither of them give me trouble.

At work, I listen to people who have never used a Mac slam OS X, but I watch people here on this forum do the same thing in reverse… most of you have never even used Vista. You are just reading what someone else thought they heard someone else say about Vista and then passing judgment. Vista (or even XP) is not that bad. Most of the issues like the long file copies have already been addressed by Microsoft in updates that automatically down load during Windows Update.

Is Vista perfect? No. Neither is Mac OS X. But that is true with any operating system.