It's not the advertising, it's the computer. Advertising presents a product but it still won't sell if it's lousy; Zune, New Coke, Edsel. MS is still stuck with a bloated OS that people don't want, even those of us in the business. The door has been opened to people moving off of the MS treadmill and it won't be closed again no matter how many millions they dump into advertising Vista. It's just so much lipstick on a pig.

A few years ago MS wouldn't even acknowledge that Apple was a competitor. I guess they are scared now.

"Welcome to the social" was their last hundred million dollar ad blitz, and we all know how well that went...

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geoduck wrote:
It's not the advertising, it's the computer.

I think you nailed it here. Microsoft is nothing more than a marketing agency these days, and not a very good one. They seem to think that it's a matter of selling their "message" instead of selling a product. They are no longer a technology company.

Along that same line of thinking, Microsoft is competing with TBWA/Chiat/Day and not with Apple.

I donʼt think that they are scared. Yet. But they have woken up and finally realised that Apple is for real and that it is a competitor. Now they probably will do as they have done before, so many times: crushed the competition by all means. Seems like it is one thing the giant doesnʼt like and that is competition. It disturbs it sleep.
When they had crushed Netscape, they announced that there would be no more upgrades to IE - until they were disturbed by the success of Firefox.
So it is just more out of their old bag of tricks, but they do not have anything really new to come with, so they copy. The Zune. Now some ads.
Well, let us see:)

I am eagerly waiting for the Snow Leopard. I really hope Apple will put all their forces into stabilizing and slimming the OS as they have promised. No fancy features.

I think it will be fun:)

As a recent "switcher," I have to agree that it's the product, not the message, though I have to admire how the message was presented by Apple. Those ads are brutal. Sometimes the truth hurts.

After numerous, unsuccessful attempts at removing spyware and adware, some of it quite malicious, I finally gave up on Windows. I couldn't be happier with my Mac!

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geoduck wrote:
It's not the advertising, it's the computer. Advertising presents a product but it still won't sell if it's lousy; Zune, New Coke, Edsel.

On a similar note have you all seen the TV ad for the Samsung Instinct, a sort of iPhone killer. The way I perceive the ad is that the Instinct is a mostly live TV viewer and GPS receiver, not much about the cell phone aspect. Their web site is Flashy, pun intended, and talk about a noisy competitor, turn down your volume if you visit the site.

Now I don't know how good the Instinct is compared to the iPhone, it may very well be serious competition, but there is more to a device than the feature set. On the plus side the Instinct is CDMA so it works for Sprint service users.

After my Windows based laptop died and being tired of the Windows games, I finally bought an Apple. Apple states "it just works" and I believe it now. I wish Microsoft would take a look at Windows and just "make it work". I don't know if Microsoft will ever wake up and I guess they just might be past by.

I agree, its not the ads that are making people switch, its the product and they are missing the boat on that one.

Microsoft may have been dropping the ball on their OS and they just need to step up to the plate and fix it. But I've lost all respect for Apple after their slander campaign against Vista. They may be pushing technology and really want to take a huge share of the technology market, but turning to slander is downright disgraceful and they should be ashamed. I'm also sick that people put up with it and Justin Long still does it. He should just go back to Drew Berrymore and hope everyone forgets he even did these commercials like the Dell Guy.

Slander is an actionable claim for using false or misleading statements to damage another's reputation. If Apple had indeed slandered Microsoft and/or Vista, I doubt that Microsoft would have simply sat idly by without pursuing its legal and equitable remedies for defamation.

Slander implies that what Apple has said in its ads is in some way untrue and damaging. I'll give you damaging. Untrue? I don't think so. Vista has and continues to be plagued with hardware and software compatibility issues. The chatter all over the internet is not part of some secret underground Cupertino conspiracy to besmirch the good name of Vista. It is from users who bought "Vista ready" machines only to find out it would barely run the most stripped-down and frankly useless iteration out of the 6 versions of Vista that MS offers. Or users who found that after "upgrading" they could no longer use peripherals that worked fine under XP, necessitating additional expense to replace simple things like USB printers and scanners. Users finding many software titles broken. IT professionals still scratching their heads to find out how Vista improves upon their network in any meaningful way. Corporate VPs of tech, needing to upgrade across the enterprise all of their thin clients because 512- 1 GB is not sufficient for an office-drone's terminal to run Vista plus all of the requisite corporate firewall/AV/AS AND applications. Saying these things haven't and aren't happening is foolish. They have. They are. The anecdotals are EVERYWHERE. The tech press (and traditionally non-Apple biased outlets) have documented it. The Get a Mac ads ARE biased towards the Mac. File that under "O" for obvious- THEY ARE ADS FOR A MAC.

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Guest wrote:
Microsoft may have been dropping the ball on their OS and they just need to step up to the plate and fix it. But I've lost all respect for Apple after their slander campaign against Vista. They may be pushing technology and really want to take a huge share of the technology market, but turning to slander is downright disgraceful and they should be ashamed. I'm also sick that people put up with it and Justin Long still does it. He should just go back to Drew Berrymore and hope everyone forgets he even did these commercials like the Dell Guy.

The problem is pride and proof. How would Microsoft look if they took Apple to court over this...PR nightmare either way. Also, it would be very hard to prove damages.

Their PC Guy and Apple Guy ads infuriate me.

1) If you want an Apple computer, it comes in all of ONE color. iPod/iPhones are a 100% better, they come in... wait for it... TWO colors.

2) There's the ad with the camera attached to the computer. Well how do you show someone what your room looks like, or point the camera away from you? Move the monitor around I guess.

3) Apple talks about how their computers come with all sorts of cool software that everyone needs. Truth is, many only want a plain and simple internet computer and don't want music editor and video editor and picture programs. Their systems seem to be bloated with stuff I don't care for and I can't order it the way I want it. Prices for Apple PCs are also significantly more expensive.

iPhones suck also... No video conferencing (let alone video recording at all. No free push Gmail. No MMS. No Voice Guidance for the GPS. No phone tethering. No full featured Bluetooth. No 32gb HD. No haptics. No slideout KB.


-M

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Guest wrote:
The problem is pride and proof. How would Microsoft look if they took Apple to court over this...PR nightmare either way. Also, it would be very hard to prove damages.

Especially when this document is entered as evidence.

[quote="Guest"]But I've lost all respect for Apple after their slander campaign against Vista. [quote]
Son, let me tell you something. I've seen every version of Windows going back to 3.11 for Workgroups. I've worked with Solaris, Novell Netware, assorted flavors of Linux, and Mac OS going back to System 6.0.5.

I've known good OS's. I've seen good OS's. Vista is not a good OS. It's bulky, bloated, the hardware requirements are too high, DRM is written into its core and it talks to the Redmond mothership too much, (to name just some of its shortcomings). There have been columns in well respected publications calling on Microsoft to abandon Vista and keep with XP while they start over and do it right.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-9785337-17.html?hhTest for example.

Notice how Microsoft is already talking about Windows 7. Even they are tacitly admitting that Vista is unsalvageable. XP isn't as bad as Vista. It'll do for the next couple of years giving Microsoft a chance to do it right..

You sound like the guy I share an office with. When I started here a year ago he was all full of how great Vista was. How it was "the best OS ever made by anyone". He's not saying that anymore, and he's downgraded several of his personal systems back to XP because Vista doesn't work for him (and he's a MSCE certified tech).

Vista and Microsoft?s unwillingness to admit it is a failure (like Apple did with Copeland) is the greatest threat to Microsoft?s future. Just as Apple dumped all of the OS-9 code and started over with OS-X and a compatibility layer for legacy apps, Microsoft is going to have to clear out the old code and start over, preferably with a clean *NIX core.

Sorry to everyone else for feeding the troll.

You can spend 45 million dollars in the most awe-inspiring ad the world has ever seen about a three-legged donkey, but I'm still not buying the donkey.

Of course MS has to start making a big fuzz over marketing campaigns, it's not for our, the consumer, sake, this is all done for their partners and associates that also have begun to lose faith in "the sleeping giant"

Sleeping giant... funny, most would call it the "Deaf, stubborn, passive-aggressive, father-knows-best-attitude giant" Instead of MS admitting their product is a flawed resource hog they barrage the consumer with reports and ads that basically tells us one thing "Our product is perfect, it is you, the consumer, who is in the wrong for failing to appreciate the changes"

You know, not everybody is going to be happy with a product. But a lot are. And apparently the MS troll above hanging out on a Mac board isn't happy.

But a WHOLE lot are. Stock market rebounded a nice chunk today. Apple continues to rise.

Dell and Microsoft fell again. Has Dell broken 30 in a year? They're back at 22. Apple's at 174. I guess we know who's happier!

Upon reading this, for some reason, I thought of Gandhi's quote and thought it was funny:

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

If Microsoft is this slow on the upshot to counter the Get a Mac Ads, and as we've seen they didn't "get it" that Vista sucked until way late in the game, what makes them think they'll be in any position to counter anything else a competitor throws at them? I've seen banana slugs with faster reaction times.

For as much time as they put into Vista they should have had an OSX killer. Seriously, they have most of the OS market share, XP, and could have kept them as customers. Instead they squandered time and it will probably be later rather than sooner before Windows 7 hits the streets. In the meantime Apple and Linux are eating into MicroSoft's base.

Looks like Microsoft will be countering Apple with an ad agency that is Mac-based. And get this, they are the same guys responsible for those creepy Burger King ads.

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You thought the sleeping giant was still sleeping, well we woke it up and it's time to take our message forward

What message is that? "We are ready to acknowledge that our products suck, so we're going to invest millions of dollars on PR pumping third-rate software, rather than fixing what ain't working right"...?

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They tell us it's the iWay or the highway. We think that's a sad message.

When did Apple ever say anything remotely of that nature in any of their "get a Mac" ads?? Translation: We're not in touch with reality... now THAT is a sad commentary!

Notice that Brad didn't defend against a single point made in Apple's advertisements... at least what I take from this is that he doesn't appreciate Apple poking at M$' scabs.

To the poor sad little trolls whining about the Apple ads: get over your pathetic selves. They are just silly commercials designed to entertain, and do a much better job of it than most of the schlock that we are bombarded with. If it bothers you that much, turn off the TV and go find a life. There are so many more important things to be POed about.

Oooh. A new ad campaign. Maybe Vista will squirt on me like the Zune did. Ooooh yeahhhhh....

I wonder if MS wishes now that they had not come out with Office for the Mac? If they had not come out with Office for the Mac, Apple may have gone under. I think it is too late for MS to hurt Apple badly by killing off the Mac version of Office thanks to Open Office.

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Guest wrote:
I wonder if MS wishes now that they had not come out with Office for the Mac? If they had not come out with Office for the Mac, Apple may have gone under. I think it is too late for MS to hurt Apple badly by killing off the Mac version of Office thanks to Open Office.

Apple would have released an Office killer, iWork is damn close to it.

I suppose the MS fanboys will dial up the posts as their nearly decade behind OSX operating system-Vista-causes hundreds of thousands to migrate to the Mac.

It isn't, so much, the clever PC/Mac ad campaign, so much as the crappy offering Microsoft came up with. Apple got it right and took a big chance migrating to UNIX with OSX. What the consumer got out of the deal was the world's best OS. Anyone who argues otherwise, doesn't use both systems, and obviously doesn't have a clue. Even Linux is a step back.

By last estimate, OSX is looking at 8% market-share, and experiencing 1500% growth. By comparison MS saw 7 percent overall. Which translated into former MS users switching to the superior platform. All I can say is, "What took you guys so long?" BTW: Once those switchers go mac, they never go back. Which is what worries the PC/MS people so much. If you can beat em with a better product, then, throw mud.

(Sorry to feed the trolls, but...)

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Guest wrote:
Microsoft may have been dropping the ball on their OS and they just need to step up to the plate and fix it. But I've lost all respect for Apple after their slander campaign against Vista. They may be pushing technology and really want to take a huge share of the technology market, but turning to slander is downright disgraceful and they should be ashamed. I'm also sick that people put up with it and Justin Long still does it. He should just go back to Drew Berrymore and hope everyone forgets he even did these commercials like the Dell Guy.

What I find ironic about this sort of silliness is that when you watch the commercials, who are you "feeling" for? the Mac? No! The PC! You can't help but feel sorry for him, and, perversely enough, root for him! ("PC's number 2!!!") Watching the ads, you have a lot of sympathy for him and his problems. Justin's just a bit smarmy for me, but the ads work, _precisely_ because, rathe than slamming the poor PC, you sympathize for him. That's very subtle marketing, and very powerful.... but it's NOT SLANDER.

-Jon

Sorry Microsoft the time has long past for reviving that pool sick old operating system. You've simply ran out of chewing gum and bailing wire to patch that dog. Vista is a loser and you'd better trash it soon and build a new operating system form the ground up lest you become irrelevant.

Actually, I do think that Microsoft can use Office as a stick. My anecdotal experience shows that the presence of Office allowed people to comfortably switch. What Mac user here doesn't have Office installed?

OK, actually, I don't have Office installed, instead, I limp along with AbiWord, NeoOffice and the X-11 Open Office. I do this because I'm geek enough to stand it. But none of them open the Word documents I receive from my PC-using colleagues very well. Also I don't have Office because I have a separate PC which does.

And OK, a person can do almost anything with iWork and the apps I listed above, but as soon as you have to collaborate, you better have Office. And not just commercial collaboration, volunteer work, recipe sharing, heck my PC using father (don't ask) insists on sending me Word documents of his travel itineraries.

So a computer is not really complete without spending another $129.99 on Office. I'm sure Microsoft can figure a way to kill this golden-egg laying goose, but if they manage this asset correctly, I believe they can heavily influence the market.

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Anonymous wrote:
Microsoft may have been dropping the ball on their OS and they just need to step up to the plate and fix it. But I've lost all respect for Apple after their slander campaign against Vista. They may be pushing technology and really want to take a huge share of the technology market, but turning to slander is downright disgraceful and they should be ashamed. I'm also sick that people put up with it and Justin Long still does it. He should just go back to Drew Berrymore and hope everyone forgets he even did these commercials like the Dell Guy.

Slander concerns the spoken word. Libel concerns the written word and material broadcast on television and radio. It would be a libel campaign, not slander.

At no point do the ads refer to Microsoft or actually say anything negative about the company itself. They only refer to a product. Nor do they make any actual false statements about the product. You may think they are exaggerated, but they are not actually false. In the US, you would have to prove that they were intentionally malicious and were made with full knowledge that they are false. If Apple said something like "installing anything from Microsoft will cause all of your hair to fall out", that could be considered libelous because it is knowingly false. To imply that Vista's UACs are annoying ("Cancel or Allow?") is not libel because that opinion is held by the vast majority of those who have reviewed the product and is one of the biggest complaints about it.

Also, I believe that a company or person has 1 year to file a libel case from first knowledge of the statements being made. That horse left the barn a long time ago. And apparently Microsoft has a better sense of humor than many of its users.

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JonGl wrote:
(Sorry to feed the trolls, but...)

What I find ironic about this sort of silliness is that when you watch the commercials, who are you "feeling" for? the Mac? No! The PC! You can't help but feel sorry for him, and, perversely enough, root for him! ("PC's number 2!!!") Watching the ads, you have a lot of sympathy for him and his problems.

You have a good point. In the ads, PC is not Windows, he's just subject to Windows, but you get the feeling he would rather not be.

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jbruni wrote:



You have a good point. In the ads, PC is not Windows, he's just subject to Windows, but you get the feeling he would rather not be.

Maybe somebody should tell PC about Hackintosh?

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JonGl wrote:

Maybe somebody should tell PC about Hackintosh?

Instead of suing Apple could...

Mac: "Hi I'm a Mac"
PC (Covered in packing peanuts): "AND I'M A MAC"
Mac: "PC, what are you doing? You're not a Mac..."
PC: "OH YES I AM, I HAVE LEOPARD INSTALLED! SORRY, I HAVE TO SHOUT, MY FAN IS A LITTLE LOUD!"

etc...

Having read through a few forums on this topic now one thing strikes me about MS's approach here. Since the Intel switch and the advent of Boot Camp every Mac on the market is now a potential MS customer, which they were not in the PPC days. Apple's growth is more of a threat to Dell etc. because each switcher is one lost sale for them, but if MS came up with (you have to use your imagination here) a great desirable OS the change of hardware would not affect them, other than they would see a rise in retails sales roughly equivalent to their decline in OEM sales.

This response shows that they know that the bulk of their OS sales come from a captive market and not because of the quality of their product. This is the issue that Bonkers Ballmer and co. should be addressing, rather than issuing these rather sinister sounding threats.

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ctopher wrote:
What Mac user here doesn't have Office installed?

I do, but I don't need it. I've never had an overwhelming need for Office, either (other than using email on a Windows network, ala Entourage or Outlook).

Those commercials are low blows. A professional doesnt so directly attack another professional so blatantly. Keep in mind Vista has still outsold Macs by far, and once microsoft starts their campaign of advertising apple's going to have to spend even more to strike back.

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Anonymous wrote:
Those commercials are low blows. A professional doesnt so directly attack another professional so blatantly.

They might look like "attacks" to a thin-skinned loyalist. I think they do an excellent job of pointing out Mac's advantages over Windows in a humorous way, as opposed to a hard sell. Apple knows marketing better than probably all of its competitors; if those commercials weren't well-received or effective at drumming up business, they would have pulled the plug a long time ago.

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Anonymous wrote:
Keep in mind Vista has still outsold Macs by far, and once microsoft starts their campaign of advertising apple's going to have to spend even more to strike back.

Yes. And look how well their $100 million campaign did for the Zune. You are obviously one of those folks who glances at the retail of a Mac vs. PC, and instantly brays, "PC's are cheaper!". Do the math, for cryin' out loud... you have to look at the whole picture. Microsoft barked about those "record" sales by counting new PC's that come with it preinstalled and channel stuffing. So what you really meant to say is, "Microsoft unloaded far more copies of Vista..."