With California Labor Law, the burden is on the employer to prove that they did everything above-board and in compliance with the state labor laws. If Apple doesn't have full documentation for how they handled this employee's hours (and their justification for classifying him "exempt"), the court will find in favor of the employee essentially by default.

Silicon Valley companies never pay overtime. They pay well, but you're expected to work ~60 hours a week for your "40 hour" paycheck.

Apple is a fun place to work, but it's no different than Microsoft in this respect.

Yes, I'm aware that Microsoft isn't headquartered in Silicon Valley (though they have offices in Mountain View, Cupertino, etc.) - but the "Microserfs" approach to high-tech management is ubiquitous, whether you work for Microsoft, Oracle, Google, HP, Sun, Yahoo, Intel, or Apple.

If it was so bad, why did he stay 10 years? Not just in silicon valley, but in the whole country it is common for professional level staff to be paid a fixed salary. This would open the doors for any number of professionals to claim indentured servitude damages. Think college professors, lab professionals, employed physicians, etc.

Good luck with that.

Companies have been hiding behind the "salaried employee" thing for too long to get more bang (er, work) for their buck, at the expense of the employee.

I did settle out of court with Apple on my concerns of extreme work hours back in the early 90's. I opted for stock; still have the stock and it is doing GREAT!'

There needs to be a federal law requiring no more than 25% above the "40 hour work week" in hours, or 50 hours max, then OT kicks in. Also, that the 50-hour work week can only be once every 3 weeks, with the other 2 weeks not maxing beyond 44 hours (or 10% above) without OT kicking in. In those same 2 weeks, anything over 48 hours is double OT.

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Guest wrote:
Companies have been hiding behind the "salaried employee" thing for too long to get more bang (er, work) for their buck, at the expense of the employee.

I did settle out of court with Apple on my concerns of extreme work hours back in the early 90's. I opted for stock; still have the stock and it is doing GREAT!'

There needs to be a federal law requiring no more than 25% above the "40 hour work week" in hours, or 50 hours max, then OT kicks in. Also, that the 50-hour work week can only be once every 3 weeks, with the other 2 weeks not maxing beyond 44 hours (or 10% above) without OT kicking in. In those same 2 weeks, anything over 48 hours is double OT.

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BanjoBanker wrote:

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Guest wrote:
Companies have been hiding behind the "salaried employee" thing for too long to get more bang (er, work) for their buck, at the expense of the employee.

I did settle out of court with Apple on my concerns of extreme work hours back in the early 90's. I opted for stock; still have the stock and it is doing GREAT!'

There needs to be a federal law requiring no more than 25% above the "40 hour work week" in hours, or 50 hours max, then OT kicks in. Also, that the 50-hour work week can only be once every 3 weeks, with the other 2 weeks not maxing beyond 44 hours (or 10% above) without OT kicking in. In those same 2 weeks, anything over 48 hours is double OT.

You must work for the government, or be European.

Poor little guy - on standby for the whole darn weekend - that's just outrageous. Just think - he could have been sitting on the couch watching a game and drinking a beer but instead all he could do was watch the game...

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? STANDBY?

Don't like your job - leave! If enough leave the company either changes or dies. Big brother labor laws breed stupidity and laziness. The day people started to believe a "good job" was their RIGHT is the day the US started downhill. I could care less if they ask people to work 100 hours a week. If someone is willing to let them. I'll bet you bump into at least 20 people in any given week who work that much - teachers, small business owners, lawyers (argh...), 2nd job holders - the list is long and not all do it just for the money.

Why didn't this guy just say no or go look for a job and leave? Could it have been that it wasn't that big of a deal or he couldn't find another job nearby or - no it couldn't be - he saw a lawsuit in his future. Do you think he'll settle for the back pay for those extra hours? Don't kid yourself - this guy and his pimp lawyer are just using the liberal CA labor laws to wring some cash out of Apple.

And yes - I'm a salaried no overtime engineer who joined the military back in the 70's so I could put myself through college. Hmmm - maybe I should sue the military for all those "standby" hours on guard/mess/watch/boot camp/cleanup duty...

What's wrong with you people? You believe in the Divine Right of Capital? You believe the rest of us are just fodder?

"Big brother labor laws breed stupidity and laziness."

It's the Corporations that are Big Brother, you stupid wanker. Why do you believe that they should get your labor for nothing? Think they're not making enough already? And if they are stealing your labor, why do you think leaving your job the only remedy available?

I haven't read such ignorant, right-wing twaddle since the 1950's.

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BanjoBanker wrote:

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Guest wrote:
Companies have been hiding behind the "salaried employee" thing for too long to get more bang (er, work) for their buck, at the expense of the employee.

I did settle out of court with Apple on my concerns of extreme work hours back in the early 90's. I opted for stock; still have the stock and it is doing GREAT!'

There needs to be a federal law requiring no more than 25% above the "40 hour work week" in hours, or 50 hours max, then OT kicks in. Also, that the 50-hour work week can only be once every 3 weeks, with the other 2 weeks not maxing beyond 44 hours (or 10% above) without OT kicking in. In those same 2 weeks, anything over 48 hours is double OT.

You must work for the government, or be European.

Apple needs to be investigated for improperly classifying employees as independent contractors. These employees are kept on the job for years at a time and are not converted to regular employees. No benefits, no bonus & no recognition even though they do the EXACT same work as regular employees. They have contributed to Apple's record breaking profits but do not get squat in return.

Definitely true that contractors are kept on the job for years and not converted to regular employees. The reason is that contractors are easy to fire (just don't renew the contract) and much cheaper because Apple doesn't have to pay benefits.

But hey, if you don't like working as a contractor for Apple, why don't you go work for (Sun, HP, Microsoft, wherever) as a full-time employee? Probably because you like working at Apple, even though it's a lot harder to get hired there as a "real" employee.

I think contractors have a pretty good deal - you can get a higher base salary and pay for your own (reduced) benefits for a lower cost than Apple would pay. You can also take some time off between contracts. Think about it.

I hear where you're coming from, but beware of what you ask for with regard to federal laws... there are always unintended consequences, and other undesirable regulations that get tacked on. You may be better off with a lowly state or local law, or with no law at all!

Join the Army and spend a tour in Iraq. You'll welcome 60-hour workweeks when you get home, IF you get home in one piece, of course.