I like the sound of this iWork as an updated AppleWorks, because that old one hasn't been updated forever, which made me hesitant to get it for the simple database stuff.

POD is no biggie.

However, ProBand I have mixed feelings on. On the upside, a "pro level" garage band would be sweet, but on the downside I'm unsure of how Pro Tools, Logic, and ProBand would potentially stack up. I'm always uncertain whether to just wimp out and get the low-end stuff or go nuts on the high end stuff, but if ProBand is there too (I imagine as "good" but not Logic or ProTools) then that throws another wrench into what I want to get (do I pay alot for ProBand, but still not get everything?, etc)

We'll just have to wait and see. This fall should be extremely interesting and make for long christmas lists come winter

Can some explain to me the difference between Soundtrack, Logic Pro, Logic Express, and ProBand (okay it's not released but how would it differ from other options). Also, I wonder if Apple will ever brand Logic under the Apple name and not Emagic. It would be nice to see

Oh, and Garageband too.

Thanks!

If you look at the range of software updates recently, the bits we've seen on TIger and this then it appears that Apple is churning & burning. Now if IBM can just come up with a major bump in the production of G5s . . .

Soundtrack and Garage Band are largely about manipulating prerecorded loops (soundtrack being the more 'pro' version, and integrating video). Logic's line of products is pro audio recording, and the premise is not to manipulate prerecorded midi and audio loops, screwing with tempos and keys, but with recording live music - all the way through red book mastering (in logic Pro). No idea on ProBand - it seems to step on the toes of Soundtrack, actually.

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Anonymous wrote:
Can some explain to me the difference between Soundtrack, Logic Pro, Logic Express, and ProBand (okay it's not released but how would it differ from other options). Also, I wonder if Apple will ever brand Logic under the Apple name and not Emagic. It would be nice to see

Here's how I think they (will) rank (best first):

1. Logic
2. Soundtrack
3. ProBand/Logic Express
4. Logic Express/ProBand
5. Garageband

Clearly Garageband is on the bottom end, and Logic is on top, although I'm not overly familiar with Soundtrack, screenshots and stuff make it look like Logic, and then Logic Express sits above Garageband near the bottom, but I'm as confused as you about ProBand.

Maybe Apple's just covering its liability, but I believe the Tiger search is called Spotlight, not Searchlight (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlight.html). Could this be a different feature? Are they changing the name? Or are they just protecting similar trademarks?

Is already the name of a time tracking billing software I use that's great. Wonder what will happen here.

http://www.iggsoftware.com/iwork/

Hmm, at first I assumed that Apple's iWork would be a MicroSoft Office like suite. But after looking at the iggsoftware site I am thinking that maybe Apple is going to buy this software and maybe iBank and iPaste as well.

I did a search at the Trademark office web site and found 11 listings for iWork, which included both Apple and IGG among others. John Kheit, who wrote this story, is an attorney and maybe he can explain how these multiple trademarks work.

As to an Apple branded Office type of package maybe it will be titled "AppleWorks Pro."

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Guest wrote:
Is already the name of a time tracking billing software I use that's great. Wonder what will happen here.

http://www.iggsoftware.com/iwork/

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Guest wrote:
Maybe Apple's just covering its liability, but I believe the Tiger search is called Spotlight, not Searchlight (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlight.html). Could this be a different feature? Are they changing the name? Or are they just protecting similar trademarks?

I'd imagine that Apple would be protecting themselves against similar trademarks.

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AyaSofya wrote:
Hmm, at first I assumed that Apple's iWork would be a MicroSoft Office like suite. But after looking at the iggsoftware site I am thinking that maybe Apple is going to buy this software and maybe iBank and iPaste as well.

I did a search at the Trademark office web site and found 11 listings for iWork, which included both Apple and IGG among others. John Kheit, who wrote this story, is an attorney and maybe he can explain how these multiple trademarks work.

As to an Apple branded Office type of package maybe it will be titled "AppleWorks Pro."

Hi AyaSofya:

Without getting too deep into general information about trademark law, the short story is that you can have multiple and or identical trademark names owned by different companies in some circumstances.

A little background is probably in order. One of the basic purposes of trademarks is to prevent confusion as to the source of a service or goods. For example, in this way you don't have two companies making Coca Cola (one using nuclear wastes and the other sparkling water as a base). In such circumstances, only one company can have the trademark on Coca Cola.

However, when there is little likelihood of confusion as to the source of the product, you have a greater chance that multiple similar or identical marks can co-exist. This is where the class designation and description of the goods/services that is supplied as part of trademark application become more important.

Perhaps a germane example is/was Apple Records and Apple Computers. At least back in 1978, arguably, there was little liklihood you were going to confuse that the Beatles suddenly started manufacturing computers or that Steve Jobs and Wozniak were secretly writing lyrics for the Fab Four. Another example might be "New York Subs" the maker sandwiches is not likely to be confused with "New York Subs" the maker of underwater sea faring transportation devices. Or that "Princeton Shoe Repair" is somehow related to "Princeton University." In such cases, you may find multiple similar or identical marks that are targeted at different industries and or classes, and in such cases they might be able to co-exist without confusing the general public as to the source of the goods or services.

Of course there are million wrinkles, exceptions, gotchyas and subtleties that I'm not going into, but hopefully that information gets at your general inquiry. But please note, this is *NOT* legal advice. I am *NOT* your lawyer. If you have a specific question concerning your circumstances you should consult an attorney as your particular situation may be different, and the above information may not apply. Ok, enough butt covering.

Best regards,
John Kheit

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jkheit wrote:
But please note, this is *NOT* legal advice. I am *NOT* your lawyer. If you have a specific question concerning your circumstances you should consult an attorney as your particular situation may be different, and the above information may not apply. Ok, enough butt covering.

Best regards,
John Kheit

Oh, wow. One of my own kind. I swear, my mantra has become "this is not legal advice and I'm not your lawyer." I think that should be engraved on my tombstone.

So in what jurisdiction(s) are you admitted?

Thanks for responding John. I wasn't asking for legal advice, but was wondering how two Macintosh software companies can both trademark "iWork" without stepping on each other's toes.

well I would love to see an update to Apple aka ClarisWorks really designed for OSX. Nice to read all the trademark stuff too.

Perhaps a germane example is/was Apple Records and Apple Computers ... Another example might be "New York Subs" the maker sandwiches is not likely to be confused with "New York Subs" the maker of underwater sea faring transportation devices. Or that "Princeton Shoe Repair" is somehow related to "Princeton University." In such cases, you may find multiple similar or identical marks that are targeted at different industries and or classes, and in such cases they might be able to co-exist without confusing the general public as to the source of the goods or services.


There was a recent incident in Vernon Hills Illinois. They converted a Nike missile base into a park, and later wanted to convert the park into a sports facility. A shoe company that had no problem with "Nike Park" had strong legal objections to "Nike Sports Facility".

A few years back, there were rumors of iOffice being a suit of products to replace AppleWorks. When Keynote first came out, it was suggested that it was the first application of iOffice.

Pod is no biggie? Anyone who would be likely to use Garage Band should also be aware of the <a href="http://line6.com/products.html?category=3">wonderful products released by Line6.</a> "Pod" is a normal word, and Apple isn't the only company ever to call one of their devices a "pod". End Trademark Law abuses!

I put 40 quatloos on ProBand being the new name for Soundtrack.

I think ProBand will be the new name for Logic Pro. I can't see Apple positioning another music app between Garageband and Logic. Logic users have been eagerly awaiting an update ever since cool new features were previewed at Winter NAMM music expo.

As a Logic user, I don't care for the name much, but I guess Apple have strategic plans for branding etc and anyway - what's in a name? I can live with it if the new stuff is as good as we are expecting.

I'm with Dirt Road on this one actually. The soundtrack box art looks like garageband and the expansion loops stuff also, and naming it ProBand would make it more parallel with Garage Band. As for Logic, I think that has a much too established name attached to it that I don't think Apple would/should change.

Zeroconf is the original name for Apple Rendezvous PnP technology implementation, it was formed in 1999 by The Zeroconf Working Group. I'm not sure sure how you guy's completely missed that in your report

I would say it is more likely Apple is now applying for use of the word Zeroconf (http://www.zeroconf.org/) to avoid the problems recently with the rendezvous name ownership problems and have most likely uncovered a potential problem using OpenTalk. Plus they can start badging Tiger's preview pages with a Zeroconf logo.

i think you guys are very confused about these two apps. yes they both use loops, but they are very different programs. soundtrack is for scoring video and has no audio in capabilities. it's loops are much more complete songs. garageband is basically a four track on your computer that makes it easy for you to add instrument and ambient loops. i'd love to see where proband fits in with the logic pro, logic express, garageband scheme. it probably adds more editing and mixing features then garageband has, but does not have close to the recording capabilities of logic.

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Anonymous wrote:
i think you guys are very confused about these two apps. yes they both use loops, but they are very different programs. soundtrack is for scoring video and has no audio in capabilities. it's loops are much more complete songs. garageband is basically a four track on your computer that makes it easy for you to add instrument and ambient loops. i'd love to see where proband fits in with the logic pro, logic express, garageband scheme. it probably adds more editing and mixing features then garageband has, but does not have close to the recording capabilities of logic.

Not true - many of the loops in soundtrack are identical to the ones in Garage Band, and created by the same musicians (at the same sessions) as the loops used in Garage Band. And Soundtrack does have audio-in capabilities for recording.

Interestingly, Apple have just registered the trademark iWrite in Australia too. And they've only just started the process of registering iWork too!

I'm hoping Zeroconf is a namechange for Rendezvous, as opposed to OpenTalk. It looks like it, because Zero Configuration is Rendezvous. Zeroconf.org has the details

iWork has recently been registered in Australia (though the TM process isn't complete yet). And the previously registered iWrite has recently been fully registered as a TM in Australia!

Does that mean we'll have a new productivity package titled iWork which includes a word processor called iWrite?

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Engine Joe wrote:
Many of the loops in soundtrack are identical to the ones in Garage Band, and created by the same musicians (at the same sessions) as the loops used in Garage Band. And Soundtrack does have audio-in capabilities for recording.

The difference still being, as I'm understanding it from these comments, that Soundtrack is mostly meant for adding sound to video, whereas GarageBand/Logic/ProTools are solely for the creation of music. I'm guessing that ProBand will be above GarageBand, but below Logic/ProTools in features and capability. Maybe Soundtrack will go away and its features (other than actual music creation) be added to one, or both, of the Final Cut products.

iWork seems like an AppleWorks replacement. I don't know about veteran Mac users, but on the Wintel side of the fence, a product with "Works" in the title harks back to the rather lame MS Works which has come pre-loaded on many a PC and seemed to exist mostly to frustrate you to the point of ponying up for MS Office. I'm actually seeing iWork as the basic home productivity pack in counterpart to iLife, and including what the basic home user would use: word processor, spreadsheet, maybe a money-manager of some kind, maybe a clipart/drawing component (though I'd say Photoshop so thoroughly owns that space on the Mac that there'd be no point). The Pro counterpart to iWork, of course, would be the same as it is on the Wintel side: pony up for MS Office. But in the meantime every Mac would come fully loaded with everything most users will ever need.

Someday I should really register here......

rueyeet

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Anonymous wrote:
maybe a clipart/drawing component (though I'd say Photoshop so thoroughly owns that space on the Mac that there'd be no point

I like your thoughts and agree with all parts except for this one. Photoshop is too expensive for lots of people and if you're only going to use a bundled graphics program anyway, photoshop elements is probably even more than you need. So if they came out with a bundle with word processing, spread sheet, money management and a MS Paint on steroids, I'd be all over that. Before I got photoshop on my PC I'd use paint for all cropping and even some basic image/logo manipulation (with gifs and bmps anyway), and even after I got photoshop i would often default to paint because photoshop took forever and a day to load (well, 15 seconds >>> 1 second)

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Anonymous wrote:
The difference still being, as I'm understanding it from these comments, that Soundtrack is mostly meant for adding sound to video, whereas GarageBand/Logic/ProTools are solely for the creation of music. I'm guessing that ProBand will be above GarageBand, but below Logic/ProTools in features and capability. Maybe Soundtrack will go away and its features (other than actual music creation) be added to one, or both, of the Final Cut products.

Your distinction is pretty much right. One thing people seem to forget when they praise GarageBand so much is that it really is the same thing as Acid, which has been around a long time on the PC. Interestingly, Acid Pro is closer to Soundtrack as it is exactly like a "pro" Garage Band but adds video soundtracking to it.

I don't know that Soundtrack will go away, but I think it probably should if there will be a ProBand which is a the step up from GarageBand. Too many products without sufficient distinctions; especially since Logic 7 is getting the Apple Loops capabilities that Garage Band and Soundtrack have.

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spxyu02 wrote:
Photoshop is too expensive for lots of people and if you're only going to use a bundled graphics program anyway, photoshop elements is probably even more than you need.

True. Actually, I discovered last week that GraphicConverter is pretty much your MS Paint on steroids....and I believe it comes pre-loaded on every Mac. If Apple replaced it with their own solution there would probably be people crying foul (Sherlock/Konfabulator/LiteSwitch type accusations).

rueyeet

Look at the inevitable.
1-Apple bought Emagic in order to own a pro-audio application, software, instruments, etc. which eventually became Soundtrack and Garageband.

2-Apple's website does not offer any support for Logic Audio, even though its owned by Apple (it's still run by Emagic's website)

3-IT would be phenominal to be able to access the virtual instruments, loops, samples that come with Soundtrack/Garageband in a pro-audio application. (What makes it Pro? The ability to create a varying tempo track, multiple input recording tracks, better editing tools, audio scrubbing, etc...)

4-This is all going to be tied toghether with the next gen opertating system Tiger, which features "core audio" technology.

5-My prediction: Tiger comes out in Jan-Mar of 2005, and ProBand gets released shortly thereafter.

6-My life becomes an explosion of joy!

7-iTunes will sell Virtual Instruments, and loops directly via ProBands interface.

8-Future gen of Final cut will also offer video footage (for editing) available online. ITs inevitable.

9-iPhoto will sell clip art. etc..

There you have it folks!
Apple make it so.

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faustofernos wrote:


7-iTunes will sell Virtual Instruments, and loops directly via ProBands interface.

8-Future gen of Final cut will also offer video footage (for editing) available online. ITs inevitable.

Interesting ideas

yeah, also iPhoto as well selling clip art you can use in Keynote, and any other future apple apps. I dont ever see them trying to compete with Adobe. But they are going after AVID's market and its theirs to take. Those pro-audio industry types have their heads up their asses. That stuff is so HARD to learn and develop.

I really see apple becoming a major online Media sales app developer, selling clip art, stock photogrpahy, fonts, etc.. its just an extension of their online store they already have set up.

Just a new database. Or some other company will do this. Its just a matter of time.

ProBand is likely to be a jam pack, intrument package with Logic like cababilities or possibly an add on to Logic.