Great article, I always like to see your insight on events.

Just one point though - aren't the cheap Chinese/Korean imports doing more to make the portable music player a "humdrum commodity device" than Microsoft's efforts? In terms of price isn't the Zune still a "Premium" product?

You make interesting points, but the heart of your post is a contradiction. Dilute the iPod brand by making Zune a turd? Surely that only emphasises the iPod brand. Apple can make iPods far cheaper than MS can, so the only way for MS to disrupt the iPod is to use Zune as a loss leader and buy the market with its cash reserves. They'll never make the money back selling songs if they do this, so you seem to be saying that they are so envious of Apple's success in this market that they wish simply to destroy the market, spend a heap of cash doing it, with no hope of getting the money back. It makes no sense.

As for selling Zune to old fart businessmen, the Zune doesn't even act as a hard drive, and I can't see them squirting Paul Simon tracks at each other.

The only way to own this market in the long term, either for Apple or MS is to keep putting out more and more compelling products. They're cheap enough that people do upgrade, so the market won't reach saturation for a while yet. Dell's efforts in this field failed miserably. MS's first effort looks likely to go the same way. If MS keep on putting out turds, they'll never be cool. This isn't the enterprise space. Cool matters.

Nick

JM's opinion pieces are quickly becoming one of my favorite reads about all things Apple. Very nicely written, thought out pieces.

I agree that Apple needs to be wary here and not overly confident like they were in the past. There are a couple of differences here from what happened in the past that makes the MSFT strategy a little less scary though.

When MSFT was initially selling Windows, it was just a software company. You could price your product anywhere you wanted in the market to get business. With the Zune, MSFT can try for a while to make Zune loss leader on this but since it is more mainstream now and it also answers to wall street, it can't subsidize the hardware forever and some part of the business will need to be profitable at some point in time. With the Xbox, it has the software side of things there to make money on. It will be interesting to see how Zune tries to make money on the software side of things and where it stands to make money here, especially since we know that while wildly popular, the iTunes store is not a fantastic money maker for Apple.

As JM said, Apple is a more nimble company now. And there is a whole strategy behind Apple's media offerings. Apple has entered markets in a way and time that makes sense. MSFT has been trying to do this media thing as a software company for quite a while with very limited results/success. It will not be just about Zune but what they can come up with that competes with iTV and whatever other product that Apple can come up with. Things move much more quickly now as well so the iPod is a moving target. So it is much harder to hit.

With previous offerings from MSFT for business, people did have to roll up their sleeves in order to get things to work properly. They probably won't be as willing to do this with the things they need for entertainment, especially music. So while good enough for MSFT might be a plan, it won't be able to take over the market with good enough. MSFT partners in play for sure have tried this and failed to unseat Apple so far. MSFT will need to make this more than good enough in my opinion.

Neal

One other thing that I just thought about was that the perception of MSFT back then was different than it is now. Back then, they were considered an innovator on the pc side and didn't have the image problems that they have today. Today, in many circles, MSFT is no longer an innovator and has put out less than secure/stellar products in many minds. Because of this difference, they don't get the same free ride that they had in the past. If they put out a product that is not good, I believe the market won't be as forgiving. So there is some peril in a just good enough strategy for MSFT as well.

Neal

Your logic doesn't hold up. Yes, if they sold the same features at half the price, it would undercut the iPod business. Or if they sold more features AND the same experience and iPod-coolness at the same price. But they don't.

Instead, the group of people that is going to buy Zune is most likely the Microsoft fan base. If the Zune sucks MS is going to dilute its own brand amongst its most loyal customers.

And you can just as well argue that the brown Zune-turd enhances Apples iPod image as the King of Cool. Does korean cars dilute the value of the BMW brand?

There is no way that making an unattractive player is part of some brilliant master plan. MS simply isn't better than that. They are good at Me-too products.

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nealg wrote:
J So while good enough for MSFT might be a plan, it won't be able to take over the market with good enough.
Neal

I totally agree with you. The consumer maket is an entire beast completely. I bought an xbox 360 last week (no comments please... my girlfriend has been wanting to play Oblivion since before it was even out and I didn't want to infect my iMac with Windows!). This purchase has convinced me that MS will never be a top notch contender in the consumer space:
- it crashes. A lot.
- It's BIG, BULKY and CHEAP. Looks like it was designed by someone with a degree in shovels. Not at all like what you see in pictures.
- It's ridiculously noisy. This is intended for the living room, not the underside of a desk in the garage.
- The hardware is flimsy. My controller was broken out of the box (the guy who did the exchange at Future Shop said he was on his third already!). The headset that comes with it feels like it should belong in a cereal box - and it's MONO!!! AND it has a proprietary 1/8 jack (shorter than normal) so this is what you're stuck with.

All in all, it just feels like a rushed this-is-good-enough product without any polish, refinement or intelligent thought about its ultimate purpose. The power brick alone should put every designer who worked on this product to shame: it could be a small radiator for god's sake!

i believe this is the perfect example of MS's internal culture. I think no matter what talent they recruit, this culture will always negate it in the end. We often hear how Windows is so much more complex because it has to deal with so many configurations. That if MS had Apple's advantage of controlling "the whole widget" we'd see that they're just as capable of creating great products that "just work". Well, no. The Xbox is closed. It's proprietary. This should be their moment to shine. And it's crap. And from what I've seen so far, you can apply everything I've said to Xbox Live.

This was a great article. But I believe this is a very different reality. MS's tried and true tactics aren't an advantage on this one.

BS in the boardroom will not change consumer's minds. The iPod is a consumer item. Millions of consumers have chosen iPod over some pretty good competition because the iPod looks good and is easier to use.

Microsoft will always fail in looks good and ease of use no matter which Microsoft product we are talking about.

Consumers shun ugly and hard to use get's thrown in a drawer somewhere, never to be seen again.

Seems that each successive article by JM gets more and more, shall we say, abstruse. MS has been stumbling around for years. Maybe instead of divining some inspired and audacious marketing gambit of willful mediocrity behind the Zune, maybe we should just admit that it's just another indication of the club-footed ineptness that has been plaguing Microsoft these past 5+ years.

I agree with previous posts that this notion of taking the shine of the iPod brand by selling a crappy competing product just doesn't make sense.

Zune is first and foremost a brute force attempt at throwing money at the problem and hoping that something sticks. That was, is, and as long as Gates & Ballmer are in control, will always be the only way Microsoft will do business.

Microsoft is not good at designing great products. It's business model is to muscle out competitors through shrewd and timely contracting, coercive business practices, and a near limitless capacity to absorb losses.

Microsoft has never ever had a profitable product (think DOS, Windows & Office) that can be thought of as the best in category. You always bought Microsoft because either that's what everyone else bought or because (you thought) you had no choice. In all other products where MS comes in faced by established competition, their product mediocrity led to failure. No reason why Zune would be any different.

Microsoft has agreed to kickbacks to at least one movie studio, agreeing to a payment per unit sold.This is in MS dna. Remember how they forced every manufacturer to pay a Window's fee on every PC sold, even if it came equipted with another operating system?
The studio's may be using this as leverage with Apple, as they negotiate movie deals. Unfortunatly, it is the consumer who loses, but it may be trying to force Apple to change its business model.
The studios may be waiting to cut their deals, and so far MS seems to have the same avaricious thoughts and methods as they traditionally do. this could be bad for Ipod and Apple.

I've no doubt that having established the Zune as what PlaysForSure should have been, MS will 'open' the platform (thus selling server software to music stores, and chip patents to players) in the way Apple haven't.

(Then again, they haven't done so with XBox, have they?).

I think they key thing for Apple is to keep the focus on music, music, music - not technology or features. 'Technology is stuff that doesn't work yet' as Mac fan Douglas Adams once said. The iPod is in the position - unlike Macs - of not being technology for most people.

The music industry wants to desperately get back control of its business. So much so they're applying a shotgun approach to the problem and seeing what sticks.

Piracy still outranks legal sales and according to recent numbers there are but 21 iTunes songs sold per iPod. If this information is correct then the music industry must think Apple isn't doing enough for them. Of course, Microsoft will prove they can't do much either. Still, Microsoft is pitching that they understand viral social forces. This is ludicrous to the say the least. No one understands these forces. Ironically, the music industry should know this better than anyone: who could have have predicted Elvis Presley, The Beatles or The Sex Pistols? Still, I can imagine Microsoft boosters at music business meetings saying: let's give Microsoft a chance; we're being treated too shabbily by Apple. The fence-sitters and even Mac supporters at those meetings will feel compelled to acquiesce.

I want Apple to succeed. To do so, I think Apple needs to be more compassionate towards the music industry and apply their talents toward helping them out of their dilemma. Apple should think beyond hardware sales solely. Use the mind-share they've build up with iTunes/iPod to create new avenues of opportunity for content providers. Partner with more channels of distribution: satellite radio, brick-and-mortar. Provide symbiotic link-backs (ad space if you will) from iTunes to outside provider's sites.

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halesgarcia wrote:
Piracy still outranks legal sales ...

Any good evidence for that? Don't take the word of the record labels. Check this article, for example. A similar article is here. It has links to older articles that are also relevant.

MS is clearly trying to to roil the waters by signing that deal with Universal but there are several reasons that will fail:

a) MS is trying the same game plan they used to win the PC OS market (veering into illegal territory eventually) where by locking up manufacturers, sellers & distributors - they were able to lock out or effectively lock out everyone (including Unix, CP/M, Mac,mini computer OSes, etc ...) until the dawn of the internet age. This is the EXACT game plan they set in place 8 years ago when they came up with their WMA (with DRM). They dutifully went to all the content providers they could find - music, movie studios, etc ... (hell Bill Gates even bought Corbis) and showed them how WMA DRM's was bulletproof and of course, they all signed off so MS created an entire turnkey system from encoding to online streaming. They thought their work was done but as with EVERY MS venture, they never bothered to ask consumers - just like the enterprise market - who cares what the drones at the desk actually want. But then came the internet. The early years were a jumble because with dialup, even music streaming at a tiny bitrate (and crappy) took too much effort but eventually Mp3 burst from the gate which confounded MS - they already had a digital format - who would use this other format? For those that don't remember, they introduced a new WMA version (don't exactly remember which version) that had "better fidelity" and was 10% smaller - analysts and non-thinking journalists fell over themselves to proclaim this would be new digital format - it was MS after all - at the heyday of napster, I'll bet it was 95% mp3, 5% wma at best. MS loses when consumers get to freely choose and in the internet age, consumers decide.

To extend that, remember that MS had about 10-25 online store partners (all selling WMA) and they had pretty much all the manufacturers/sellers locked up (couple hundred worldwide?) so they were certainly not worried when the ipod came out ... but they didn't realize the world had changed and they were still in 1992. You cannot buy up the internet - you cannot extend and embrace the internet no matter how hard you try. No one cared that there were 20 oonline stores selling WMA or 100 other choices, the majority of people choose the ipod. They tried with plays4sure and now the Zune. They think if we sign up all the record labels or offer them a better deal - we'll have "exclusive" content ... which leads us to B ...

b) CLEARLY consumers know how to load content onto their ipod/DAP's without buying that many tracks from online stores (whether itunes or not) so this really serves no purpose because consumers have clearly stated through their actions that an online store is imprtant but not the most important reason to won a DAP/ipod. Universal's head guy calls us thieves - another good way to win us over ... so even if Apple refuses to pay extortion to Universal or others, consumers will hardly switch to the Zune just to buy these tracks - consumers know exactly how to buy a CD or WORSE for Universal as Apple will point out - simply download it for FREE as a protest or just because ...

c) Honestly, who is going to win a PR battle between Apple, ipod users (maybe 85 million by the next negotiations) and Steve Jobs? Steve Jobs who not only heads Apple & Pixar but sits on the board at Disney? Or the record labels? All Apple has to do is point out that $1 does not go to artists and more importantly - what's next for consumers? pay the car manufacturer everytime you buy gas? pay the fridge comapnies everytime you open the fridge to load food? Or what if you have no tracks from Universal - do they want the hassle of a class action lawsuit to "re-pay" people if thousands/millions ipod users claim they have no Universal artists on their ipod?

d) if anything, MS' actions have fired up the internet tech heads/early adopters and gives them yet another reason not to buy a Zune.

MS has already lost because they do NOT understand consumers at all. They are pretty much zero for 11 including spending over $400 on each each Xbox to sell each one ... except now, they don't have multi billions to waste and of course, music tracks are not $49 so there's not enough cash flow for the Zune to be $99.

In response to the notion that Apple should be more responsive to the misfortunes of the Music industry. The Music Industry has done this (lowering sales) to themselves. The historical way to be aquatinted to new music was hearing it on the radio or a friend gives you a cassette or CD copy. The stuff you really like you most often would buy a real version.

Almost all (97%) radio is owned by two companies that play the same narrow formats everywhere. The larger audience is deprived of an easy means to be exposed to new music from a broader range were they might find something they like; sales go down. Pirating songs have a minimal effect on downward sales, and use to provide a stimulus. The CDs no longer offer anything beyond a couple good songs and people do not buy the whole overpriced album to get them. The prof is in the history; People used to buy tapes and CDs after hearing the pirate versions. There was value.

Big music has a failing business model that is choking off access to a broader range of potential buyers. If the industry was focused on real quality over a more accessible broad range they would not have lagging sales. The last new music I was introduced to was on a PBS show. I have bought ten albums as a result of that one TV show and friends hearing my albums have bought many many more. I have never heard any of these songs on the radio. The music companies only promote "Acts" they think will score big; They do not try any other promotion model.

The best thing for music would be the complete collapse of big music. This might work for sports also.

roger

To those who say that the author has as flawed logic in stating that "Zune as a turd will dilute the iPod". I presume he is saying that, the Zune will commoditize the entire mp3 player segment, not the the iPod specifiically. And, as to whether Creative, iRiver etc doing the same - the only argument is that Microsoft is a lot bigger than the other companies, and has advertising dollars to spend. We can all agree that, MS will outsell all the other "Plays for Sure" players very soon - can't we?. Just a thought.

Suppose Kia sells as many cars as they want. Suppose they're so successful that they take over 50% of the market.

They still would not have commoditized the auto market. They Would have commoditized themselves but I doubt that they would have commoditized Honda or Toyota or Volvo or Cadillac or BMW or Mercedes or any other brand that sells on the basis of unique brand-specific features and/or a reputation of superior quality rather than low price.

As long as the iPod is seen by consumers to be a premium quality product with unique features, whatever commoditization Zune does it will be doing only unto itself.

This site is hilarious. Check it out at:

http://www.microsoftshitbrick.com

Amusing to see how the Apple zombies keep living in cloud cuckooland.
At the end of the day, an iPod is just a music/video device.
Its not a fashion statement (a very high percantage of iPod uers are geriatric old men and women), and its not so you can look cute ( I have seen some of the UNcooloset, least cute, corpulent individuals packing iPods). Its just for playng music/videos. Period.
Music is essentialy the same no matter which MP3 device you play it on, with some minor differences.
If anything music on the Zune actually sounds better than the iPod (I compared).
The # 1 reason why competitors have not been able to do too much damage to the iPod is because firms like Creative are simply too broke to do any effective marketing (they just had 3 straight quarters of losses). Even so, the iPod's market share has fallen from 92% in 2004 to 77% today. That is a fall of 15% in just 2 years or less, most of that loss to the lil new pstart, the SanDisk Sansa.
Micrsoft does have the money for some very effective marketing, like they are doing right now..
There is incredible buzz about the Zune. At Circuit City Friday and Monday, there were people begging to be allowed to buy it before the official Tuesday unveilling.
Never seen any MP3 player generate this kind of exitement.
The Zune has attributes that the 70 million iPods already bought, will never have, like Zune to Zune sharing.
That makes the iPod look like something from Fred Flintstone's world.
Ulitmately, Microsoft is going to win this war, even if Apple wins some initial skirmishes.

"The Zune has attributes that the 70 million iPods already bought, will never have, like Zune to Zune sharing.

That makes the iPod look like something from Fred Flintstone's world."

Everyone talks about this one Zune feature like it's the be all and end all iPod killing feature but the reality is it will be a rarely used thing since the technology is so limited. Three playbacks of a song (regardless of how long you play the song before losing playback counts) and it turns off and no other Wi-Fi advantage beyond this? Lame. Apple would/will do far more with this.

Too bad the Zune too is missing dozens of existing iPod features and capabilities and can't even be used as an external storage device like the iPod can! No equalizer either!

This sharing feature is a hobbled and ill-conceived Wi-Fi feature that Apple will blow away in terms of useful functionality as soon as they turn their expert eyes to it which won't be long. In fact I predict they will come up with features neanderthal Microsoft can only dream about.

As David Pogue and Walt Mosberg pointed out in their reviews:

Pogue wrote: "It doesn't have a single standard iPod amenity: no games, alarm clock, stopwatch, world clock, password-protected volume limiter, equalizer, calendar, address book or notes module."

You cannot download podcasts either, he pointed out.

"This first Zune has too many compromises and missing features to be as good a choice as the iPod for most users," wrote Mossberg.

He added: "The hardware feels rushed and incomplete.

THAT'S THE MICROSOFT WE'VE COME TO KNOW AND DESPISE!

It's iTues that counts. Until Microsoft can at least build a music store that's 10 percent as good, it will not outsell the iPod. With a store 10 percent as good, it could, because the iPod itself can be outdone in features that allow advertisers to persuade buyers that their product is better. iPod may or may not be better than other players. I own it because of iTunes, which gives me easy and fast ways to access music, movies, podcasts and TV shows and easy and fast ways to organize all of the above. And the utter simplicity of it all means it doesn't take much time from the rest of my life.

"Too bad the Zune too is missing dozens of existing iPod features and capabilities and can't even be used as an external storage device like the iPod can! No equalizer either! "

Hah!
The Zune has an equalizer.
Tried it myself at Circuit City , Union Square.
And it kicks the carap out of the iPods, punu equalizer.
"Zune" is missing dozens of existing iPod faetures"?
Why don't you just name one of them dude?

"It's iTues that counts. Until Microsoft can at least build a music store that's 10 percent as good, it will not outsell the iPod"

The Zune Market Place is at least as good, if not better than iTunes 7.
Its got features that iTunes can only dream about.
It's very easy to use, intuitive, and very fast.
Do you people even actually know anything about what you keep prattling about at all?

Wow, you wear a turtle neck, that means you must be kewl!!!

I am such a loser I will copy anyone who says they are kewl and wears a turtleneck! All I have to do is save my pennies and soon I too will be part of the "in crowd" and make fun of the outsiders. Steve Jobs is my wet dream!

Now I get the logic behind releasing a brown colored Zune player...
Isn't sh*t usually brown?
=P

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
Hah!
The Zune has an equalizer.
Tried it myself at Circuit City , Union Square.
And it kicks the carap out of the iPods, punu equalizer.
"Zune" is missing dozens of existing iPod faetures"?
Why don't you just name one of them dude?

Well, the iPod attracts people who can construct readable sentences and can spell, unlike those who only have the imagination to by a Zune.

Why, FFS, would having an equaliser make the Zune a better buy? And what is the difference between the Zune equaliser and that on the iPod? What is so great about sharing music? Would you want to do it, ever? Is that why you would want a Zune over an iPod?

I have had an iPod for over 3 years now and not once have I ever wanted to "squirt" my music to someone. Furthermore, I don't put something on to escape from the world so I can be "social." I have my ipod on sometimes so I can ignore people not so I can make friends. It is a great way to tune out the bums that constant ask you for money in major metropolitan areas. The Zune advertisements make no sense.

Brown is a turd eh?

Guest writes: "who cares about sharing music?"

Answer: Anyone wanting that good ol' Windows virus infection. Just so you'll feel right at home.

Trash mouthed Guest says: '"Zune" is missing dozens of existing iPod faetures"?
Why don't you just name one of them dude?'

Market share?

Need I say more? Imagine the face of the teen who gets this POS over the holidays. Family therapy-you'll need family therapy.

"Market share?"


Wrong answer, zombie.
Market share is not a feature.
Next?

"Well, the iPod attracts people who can construct readable sentences and can spell, unlike those who only have the imagination to by a Zune. "

You mean zombies like you?
BTW, what does that have to do with Zune haviung a better equalizer than the iPod, and you claiming that it doesn't?

"Isn't sh*t usually brown? "

Yup.
Especially the ones from the CRAPPLE zombies.

"Why, FFS, would having an equaliser make the Zune a better buy?"

Same reason people spend thousands to buy the best sound system they can get, including the best equalizer..sound quality, which is what it's all about.
Listening to great music is not about "cute" or "cool" or whatever. It's all about the quality of the sound.

Interesting view to look at the Zune from this political perspective and I think a lot of it makes perfect sense:

Microsoft has always focused very much on an "open-ended" capability to accumulate market power in the development of their products. Customer demands/wishes/needs have always come second (or rather fifth?) place. With Apple it's the other way round; products are made FOR the users in the first place, the "maximal economic exploitability" factor comes second.

This wooing of the music industry partners and the implementation of these ridiculously rigid DRMs require no further comment. The Zune is NOT just a music player, it's another attempt to strangle music consumer independence.

In the 70s/80s it was about showing off your fancy home hifi rack, today it's about showing off your fancy mobile device. One fact about most buyers remains that more often than not the users have no clue or particular interest in music. Content is secondary, the devices themselves become fashion artifacts.

But - sorry - what do I care what features the Zune has in comparison to the iPod if it slaps DRM codes on MY OWN music tracks? No, thank you.

Having said all this, personally I think the Zune design thinking is not so bad. Yes, it's bulky, but is has a lot of retro cool with the $#!% brown color and the big multifunction button and a big screen is hardly a bad thing...if it's halfway scratch-proof.

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
"Why, FFS, would having an equaliser make the Zune a better buy?"

Same reason people spend thousands to buy the best sound system they can get, including the best equalizer..sound quality, which is what it's all about.
Listening to great music is not about "cute" or "cool" or whatever. It's all about the quality of the sound.

That's begging the question that an iPod, a Zune or any other portable music player "is the best sound system they can get". They palpably are not. I'd make a punt that there is no discernable difference between the audio output of the iPod or Zune. Don't forget that there is an equaliser on the iPod. It's there. I personally never use it.

And it also begs the question that an equaliser will improve the quality of the sound. It will not. It will change it. But simply boosting or reducing the volume of particular frequencies is not "improving" it. Some people like booming bass. That doesn't make the sound "better". It's a personal preference, but it's not changing the underlying recording.

Listening to great music is not primarily about the quality of the sound, although bad sound quality will make it unlistenable. It's about the quality of the music. The difference is huge.

[quote="LaurieF"]

Quote

Anonymous wrote:

Why don't you just name one of them dude?

Sure, I'll play. The iPod has an alarm clock built in, the Zune does not. I will even throw in a few more features that the iPod has and Zune lacks. The iPod plays games, will show content on a TV, and can be used as a hard disk. The Zune does none of these things.

Being that I use my iPod to transport files, that is a huge missing feature on any competing player.

Also, Microsoft's goal is to help the music industry, by screwing you. If Zune succeeds you will be paying more for music, and more for the players.

"That's begging the question that an iPod, a Zune or any other portable music player "is the best sound system they can get"

No one said they were.
I sure didn't.
You asked why an equaliser was needed at all.
I answered you.
Simple.

Well, in that case, I would argue that an equaliser is not an important factor in comparing a Zune with an iPod.

Equally simple. The sound quality is not the issue.

Quote

Terrin wrote:
[quote="LaurieF"]

Quote

Anonymous wrote:

Why don't you just name one of them dude?

Sure, I'll play. The iPod has an alarm clock built in, the Zune does not. I will even throw in a few more features that the iPod has and Zune lacks. The iPod plays games, will show content on a TV, and can be used as a hard disk. The Zune does none of these things.

Being that I use my iPod to transport files, that is a huge missing feature on any competing player.

The Zune does show content on a TV with the $19.99 AV cable.

There are already quite a few accessories for the Zune, with more on the way. Most bear the Zune brand, but there are others coming out by the end of the year by Monster, Altec-Lansing, DLO, Belkin, Speck, and even Vaja, among others. Now, many of these cut their teeth on iPod accessories and have simply adapted those to the Zune, which even uses a similar connector.

Zunescene did a comparison of the Zune and 30 GB iPod. They left out some things:

- Games
- Clocks (including alarm clock)
- Lock
- Notes
- Sync with calendar and contacts
- Ability to store full-sized photos (they are converted to 640x480 when synced on the Zune)
- only 320x240 videos; iPod can handle 640x480
- hard disk mode
- Zune only uses JPEG at 640x480; iPod can handle JPEG, BMP, GIF, PNG, TIFF, PSD (Mac only) and can store full-resolution photos

Other features that I don't know whether the Zune has or not:

- Voice memos
- Slideshows with music and transitions
- AV line-out via dock connector
- Sleep timer
- Multiple languages & characters simultaneously


Zunerama has a more complete comparison. I sent the site owner a nice email suggesting that he add some features like the above to the comparison, for completeness.

It's interesting to note that the Zune does not support "raw" audio files, either AIFF (industry standard) or WAV (uncompressed)--Microsoft's own format. It also does not support Audible files. That limits the appeal to older users, though the kids probably wouldn't miss that feature.

Here are the video specs for the Zune:

Windows Media Video (.wmv): Main Profile, CBR or VBR, up to 1.5 Mbps peak video bitrate, 320 x 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., with Windows Media Audio up to 192 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, stereo audio; Simple Profile, CBR, up to 736 Kbps video bitrate, 320 x 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., with Windows Media Audio up to 192 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, stereo audio.

They didn't give the specs for MPEG-4 and H.264, which the Zune supposedly can play.

The corresponding specs for the iPod are:

Video formats supported: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per sec., Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48 kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 768 Kbps, 320 by 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48 kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48 kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

Notice the 640x480 pixel, and the much higher bit rate for MPEG-4.

In some of the comments above (including some rather snide and semi-literate postings), the difference in the screen size is brought up. I'd like to put this to rest for once and for all.

1. They have the same resolution (320x240 pixels).

2. The Zune's is 3", the iPod's, 2.5".

3. In "normal" mode, the Zune has fewer horizontal pixels to show text, etc. OTOH, it can show more lines.

4. The fancy background on the Zune makes the text harder to read, especially for older folks like me.

5. Here it comes ... Lots has been said that the Zune is "easier" to see (in landscape mode for videos) than the iPod. That is true only if the two are at the same distance. Move the iPod slightly closer and it will look the same size as the Zune. Yes. True. Try it. The ratio of the distances will be the same as the ratio of their dimensions. Thus, an iPod display will look the same as a Zune if the iPod is at 2.5/3 = 5/6 (83%) of the distance of the Zune. That's it--17% difference in distance (using the Zune as the "denominator). For example, if you hold the Zune at 18 inches, it will look the same as an iPod held at 15 inches. That's all the difference--3 inches. If you hold the iPod at 12 inches, it will look the same as a Zune at 3/2.5 x 12 = 14.4 inches.

To put that in perspective (pun intended), compare it to TVs. The difference between a Zune and an iPod is the same as a 25-inch TV vs a 21-inch TV. Also, an iPod at 12 inches will look the same (size) as a 27-inch TV at 10.8 feet. The Zune at the same distance (12 inches) would look like the 27-inch TV was at 9 feet--less than 2 feet closer.

I hope that this makes it clearer.

I think the "21 songs per ipd" statistic is very misleading (like most statistics). I have an ipod with thousands of songs on it. I have only purchased a few through itunes. No, I did not steal the others, I ripped them from cd. Call me a dinsoaur, but I would still rather buy the cd and rip to high quality than buy off itunes. If my hard drive goes belly up, I can reload everything. Yeah, I could back it up, but what would I back it up to, CD? Already done.

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Anonymous wrote:
I think the "21 songs per ipd" statistic is very misleading (like most statistics). I have an ipod with thousands of songs on it. I have only purchased a few through itunes. No, I did not steal the others, I ripped them from cd. Call me a dinsoaur, but I would still rather buy the cd and rip to high quality than buy off itunes. If my hard drive goes belly up, I can reload everything. Yeah, I could back it up, but what would I back it up to, CD? Already done.

The "21 songs per iPod" refers to songs purchased from the iTunes Store.

The main reason to back up ripped songs is convenience--to save the time required to rip them again. I don't back up to CDs, but to data DVDs. One can do that directly from iTunes or use something like Toast. (I don't back up by burning audio CDs, especially of purchased songs, as that will result in some degradation if i were to rip them again and I'd lose the album art. Plus, you can store a lot more songs in the same space if you use AAC rather than raw audio (AIFF, WAV).

Endgadget (a pretty neat site) has several articles of interest: Zune Review, Has Your Zune Gotten Social Yet?, Installing the Zune ... sucked, and Microsoft launches the Zune, world keeps on turnin'--a series of reader comments.

Interesting reads.

I largely agree with John's opinion. One thing he didn't mention was that there is already a small but vocal anti-iPod group out there and I think the Zune is for them. These are the people who dislike trendy things just because they're trendy. They'll go with the Zune because its not an iPod, regardless of feature set, functionality, or looks. These people are as fanatical regarding Windows as Apple people are about Macs. Will MS gain a significant share of the mp3 player market? Eventually I think they will, but it won't be an easy battle for them. Will it ever mirror the OS market? I don't think it ever will (unless Apple screws up).

I believe in time the Zune will very much beat the Ipod soley based off of that Microsoft has a much higher level of respect as a Technological company and has been found to create more advanced and supperior objects of intrest

OK I'll play your little game. Accepting that Microsoft is a much larger company than Apple, please identify the "higher level of respect" and "more advanced and supperior[sic] objects of intrest[sic]".

Just saying that something is so doesn't make it so.

as I went thru the article and the user comments, I notice one consistant theme that is, Zune can't beat ipod... Now i think that might be true right now, but Consider zune to be just the entry point or platform for microsoft to get into the market that ipod owns right now, just like the way MS entered Sony's territory with Xbox. Right now XBox 360 (Xbox 2) is a success and has become a very strong contender to PS3, which is right now struggling because of the production problems. My point is MS has enough dollars in pocket to take the loss for many years while establishing the product in a market as a major player.
just my two cents....