Here's a riddle for you: Why would a company known for selling cheap PCs, making a tidy profit at it to boot, stoop to such plaid sports jacket practices as bait-and-switch, or misleading advertising?
I'm not talking about Apple, though the company is being sued for 'deceitful' practices in France; no, I'm referring to Apple competitor and PC vendor extraordinaire, Dell. It seems that a group of folks in California feel that Dell has been less than honest in its ads for some of its less expensive products and is suing Dell for false advertising. Some of the complaints include bait-and-switch charges, or switching an advertised product for a lesser product, and charging nearly three times more than the advertised price for another product.
What strikes me as being odd about this particular lawsuit is the notion that Dell would bother to do something so silly as to jeopardize its hard won reputation for being a reasonably decent company to buy from. While I know that some businesses engage in less than honest sales tactics, Dell really doesn't have to resort to such things to keep its stock holders happy. PCs are like potato chips to Dell, and if a person isn't happy with what he or she has, it would cost the company more to troubleshoot the problem than to just replace the computer.
This is a lesson Apple has learned with its iPods; instead of frustrating customers with technical mumbo-jumbo and dropping them into some arcane repair loop where their iPod may be missing in action for weeks or even months at a time, Apple simply verifies the problem and, if verified, replaces the iPod. The customer is happy, and walks away with a positive experience, and Apple is happy because it now has a potential customer for other Apple products. This is not rocket science, just good business.
This is a lesson I cannot believe is lost on Dell, as its entire business is based on giving a positive customer experience. Again, PCs are like potato chips, you can get them anywhere from a variety of vendors, and, beyond the minor differences in how they are made, they all pretty much taste the same.
What value Dell adds is in its support for its products. If people are unhappy with how Dell resolves problems they will simply go somewhere else, and perhaps sue as they walk away.
Of course, none of this means that Dell didn't do the things it is getting sued for; it's a well know fact that Dell keeps squeaky tight margins on its products, depending on volume selling for its profits. If things aren't going well for the company it might pull some nefarious sales stunts to meet some quota.
Why should I, or any Apple fan, care about what Dell does to its customers? Well, I don't think of Dell customers as Dell customers; I think of them as potential Apple customers who just haven't realized it yet. People unhappy with Dell products and practices go elsewhere for better products and better practices, and we know that Apple is aces in the eyes of its customers; the French notwithstanding.
So, I will be watching how this lawsuit unfolds. If others join in, or if similar lawsuits pop up in other states, it could mean that something's fishy in Dell. If so, Apple might want to think about pumping up its production just a tad.
is a writer who currently lives in Orlando, FL. He's been a Mac fan since Atari Computers folded, but has worked with computers of nearly every type for 20 years.
I'm not sure if Dell is really that much worse than any other computer company when it comes to pricing stuff. From friends of mine that have ordered Dells, they're pretty happy with the price, and very happy with the service.
That said, when I saw them advertising the Dell DJ 30GB could hold 15,000 songs, while the Apple's 30GB iPod could only hold 7,500 songs, I knew right there that the company is just plain lying.
Compressing songs twice as much in order to gain twice the capacity is nothing more than trying to fool the consumer. Most of us on these posts know the diff, but a lot of people who are ignorant to song compression will think that Dell can just plain hold more. I hate them for that piece of deceit.
Because of that, I can't give them the benefit of the doubt. I hope they lose.
Apple's RDF is world famous. Remember when OS X was supposed to speed up your Mac. OS X is still slower than classic OS 9. What about world's fastest PC. Remember how England's consumer protection agency made Apple pull those ads. And Steve Jobs promise of 3GHz Macs that never happen. Then Apple's claim about no problem with the iBook logic boards, and only after lawsuits admitting the problem. Apple without a doubt is one of the most despicable and deceitful companies on earth.
CloseViewName:Guest Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:12 pmSubject:
Well, I hate to disagree. I am have an old Powerbook G4 500 with 768 ram and OS9 was starting to show it's age on it almost a year ago. I took it to 10.3 and it was an amazing boost. Now I am running 10.4 Seed 8A351 on it and now I am going to have a hard time justifying buying a new Powerbook or iBook.
We are using 4 Powermac G3's that run at 300 Mghz with 512MB of ram as production desktops, doing standard office tasks such as word processing and email with Office 2004 and web browsing with Safari. They are happy like our users running Win2K on 2Ghz P4's and Celerons.
Please don't just spew rhetoric that was used in the 10.0/10.1 and even 10.2 days. Also, make sure the slowdown is due to the software, not user configuration or possibly hardware mishandling.
MOSX was a major move that has helped Apple, especially in the corporate market. Now if you could point out some areas of slowdown, we could possibly point out how to fix them. Also, what type of machine are you trying to run OS X on?
Anonymous wrote: Now if you could point out some areas of slowdown, we could possibly point out how to fix them. Also, what type of machine are you trying to run OS X on?
He's not running anything on anything. Ignore him.
You bring up a good point, though. Most of the bad things people say about OS X went away with Jaguar.
As an IT Manager and buyer for a 100 person firm, we have had problems with Dell Financial Services very similar to the issues quoted in the lawsuit. Bascially, the Dell sales staff would automatically put any purchase on their 90 day "same as cash" program regardless of your billing status (in our case, we have a $25,000 credit with them so why would we want to finance a couple of laptops?). Anyway, to make a long story short, the 90 days are up and you get an invoice showing that you now have to pay for the laptop plus $300 - $400 in finance charges.
One of my technicians learned this the hardway and I had to grill the Dell sale's manager's ear to get it reversed and taken care of...
I don't know if this experience was typical, but it does add some merit to this lawsuit in my mind.
CloseViewName:Guest Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:14 pmSubject:
Quote
Small White Car wrote:
Quote
Anonymous wrote: Now if you could point out some areas of slowdown, we could possibly point out how to fix them. Also, what type of machine are you trying to run OS X on?
He's not running anything on anything. Ignore him.
Disinformation by Small White Car. People see right through you. OS X is slow. Jaguar sucks. It's slow, and I run it on a dual 1.8 ghz.
Good thing that RC has set us straight, since everyone knows that newer versions of everyone else's software is always faster, nobody makes exaggerated claims about their product's performance, other companies always hit their release dates, and never ship products with quality problems.
Please share the names of some of these perfect companies with us, RC, so that we can give them our business.
I definitely think those Dell "Technical support" commercials are false advertising. Calling up Dell tech support involves navigating push-button menus, waiting on hold, and then finally speaking to a support technician whom you can't even understand through their heavy accent. You certainly can't just call them up and have a nice, intelligent-sounding American answer the phone on the first ring to eagerly assist you with your problem. I know all computer manufacturers outsource tech support nowadays, but it is wrong for Dell to misrepresent their support service.
CloseViewName:Guest Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:05 pmSubject:
"Apple without a doubt is one of the most despicable and deceitful companies on earth."
Yet Microsoft was convicted while Apple wasn't. Interesting, huh? If you want to talk about dispicable, how about the fact that Microsoft knew the power cords of 14 million Xbox consoles manufactured before October 2003 could heat up so badly they'd burn a person, but they didn't release that information and recall the cords until February of this year?
They knew about a dangerous product, but they sat on the information. There are reports of people getting burns and entertainment centers getting wrecked because of it, the defective cords could have caused a house fire.But Microsoft knew since 2003 and they didn't say a word until 2005. What's their excuse? They were "gearing up for a recall".
So, if you call Apple one of the most dispicable and deceitful companies on Earth for what little shady things they've done, then you must consider Microsoft the embodiment of evil for the very many despicable and deceitful things they've done. Things that have been much worse then Apple's ever done, infact.
"OS X is slow. Jaguar sucks. It's slow, and I run it on a dual 1.8 ghz."
"Why should I, or any Apple fan, care about what Dell does to its customers? Well, I don't think of Dell customers as Dell customers; I think of them as potential Apple customers who just haven't realized it yet"
good one vern
btw, switching from OS 9 to Unix-based OS 10 is no small feat, anyone with a computer science degree, or half a brain, would understand that. the fact that every iteration of OS 10, up to 10.3.8 now has actually made systems up to 5 years old run FASTER with each iteration of OS 10, is something to stand back and think about.
microsoft office is a perfect example of the office, where every new release of office after office 97 makes your system slower, more full of features you don't need, and takes up more space... i was gonna say makes your system more vulnerable, but RC and other like kin might come back heavy on that...
but i stand by my guns on what i said about evolution of OS 10. RC, think about it
Guy I work with called Dell on one of their ads, to be given the treatment, bait and switch, add-on costs. He was very frustrated with the experience. Called later but had the same result. Knowing me exposed him to serious Apple propaganda, although I try to recommend the best solutions for people, which is most often a Mac, but not always.
Anyway, he called Apple and was so impressed with the knowledgeable, helpful and "not pushy" rep. He bought an iBook.
Thanks Dell.
I think your friend was smart to at least give Apple a chance. And it seems to have worked out for the better. Congrats to your friend for buying an iBook.
Sorry Dell but the bait and switch tactic isn't going to work anymore.
I hope the California lawsuit beat them up but good!
Running 10.3.8 on a G3 366mhz iBook with 320mb ram and it runs very well for its age. Each version of OS X has run faster. Someone mentioned Office bloat, I notice that Office 2004 is about 3 times the size of Office X.
LOL... poor RealityCheck just inadvertedly admitted that he's wrong.
You see, when you don't have a leg to stand on, you immediately try to change the subject so you can talk about something else. Thanks RC, its always fun to see you fall on your face.
Btw, Dull is indeed a deceitful company that makes second-rate products. On the plus side, they do go well with your second-rate intellect.
Anonymous wrote: ...And no matter how hard I try to be a better person than he is by not minding, every now and then I just would like to smack his ugly little face.
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:50 pmSubject:
Quote
Guest wrote: "Apple without a doubt is one of the most despicable and deceitful companies on earth."
Yet Microsoft was convicted while Apple wasn't. Interesting, huh? If you want to talk about dispicable, how about the fact that Microsoft knew the power cords of 14 million Xbox consoles manufactured before October 2003 could heat up so badly they'd burn a person, but they didn't release that information and recall the cords until February of this year?
They knew about a dangerous product, but they sat on the information. There are reports of people getting burns and entertainment centers getting wrecked because of it, the defective cords could have caused a house fire.But Microsoft knew since 2003 and they didn't say a word until 2005. What's their excuse? They were "gearing up for a recall".
So, if you call Apple one of the most dispicable and deceitful companies on Earth for what little shady things they've done, then you must consider Microsoft the embodiment of evil for the very many despicable and deceitful things they've done. Things that have been much worse then Apple's ever done, infact.
"OS X is slow. Jaguar sucks. It's slow, and I run it on a dual 1.8 ghz."
Now THAT'S disinformation.
No, it's not. It's too slow. YES, it is. I'm the running the computer, not you, you pathetic turd.
CloseViewName:randompro42Posts: 216Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:40 pmSubject:
Quote
Guest wrote:
Quote
Guest wrote: "Apple without a doubt is one of the most despicable and deceitful companies on earth."
Yet Microsoft was convicted while Apple wasn't. Interesting, huh? If you want to talk about dispicable, how about the fact that Microsoft knew the power cords of 14 million Xbox consoles manufactured before October 2003 could heat up so badly they'd burn a person, but they didn't release that information and recall the cords until February of this year?
They knew about a dangerous product, but they sat on the information. There are reports of people getting burns and entertainment centers getting wrecked because of it, the defective cords could have caused a house fire.But Microsoft knew since 2003 and they didn't say a word until 2005. What's their excuse? They were "gearing up for a recall".
So, if you call Apple one of the most dispicable and deceitful companies on Earth for what little shady things they've done, then you must consider Microsoft the embodiment of evil for the very many despicable and deceitful things they've done. Things that have been much worse then Apple's ever done, infact.
"OS X is slow. Jaguar sucks. It's slow, and I run it on a dual 1.8 ghz."
Now THAT'S disinformation.
No, it's not. It's too slow. YES, it is. I'm the running the computer, not you, you pathetic turd.
if you really have a problem with the speed of your dual 1.8 G5, i would be more than happy to take if off your hands
and its so great that guests have come to merely making baseless insults against other guests-- it makes it easy to spot the true wintel users
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:17 pmSubject:
Quote
randompro42 wrote:
Quote
Guest wrote:
Quote
Guest wrote: "Apple without a doubt is one of the most despicable and deceitful companies on earth."
Yet Microsoft was convicted while Apple wasn't. Interesting, huh? If you want to talk about dispicable, how about the fact that Microsoft knew the power cords of 14 million Xbox consoles manufactured before October 2003 could heat up so badly they'd burn a person, but they didn't release that information and recall the cords until February of this year?
They knew about a dangerous product, but they sat on the information. There are reports of people getting burns and entertainment centers getting wrecked because of it, the defective cords could have caused a house fire.But Microsoft knew since 2003 and they didn't say a word until 2005. What's their excuse? They were "gearing up for a recall".
So, if you call Apple one of the most dispicable and deceitful companies on Earth for what little shady things they've done, then you must consider Microsoft the embodiment of evil for the very many despicable and deceitful things they've done. Things that have been much worse then Apple's ever done, infact.
"OS X is slow. Jaguar sucks. It's slow, and I run it on a dual 1.8 ghz."
Now THAT'S disinformation.
No, it's not. It's too slow. YES, it is. I'm the running the computer, not you, you pathetic turd.
if you really have a problem with the speed of your dual 1.8 G5, i would be more than happy to take if off your hands
and its so great that guests have come to merely making baseless insults against other guests-- it makes it easy to spot the true wintel users
TRO
Not baseless, you pathetic bass turd. I use the dual G5 a lot and it's slow. You can't argue with me that it is slow. I will repeat for people with lower reading comprehension skills such as you, that I am the one using it, not you.
CloseViewName:Guest Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:05 pmSubject:
"I use the dual G5 a lot and it's slow."
Really? Well, it absolutely shouldn't be slow. Why don't you run down a list of your computer's settings? I bet at least one person here would help you get it running at optimal speed.
CloseViewName:Dean LewisPosts: 156Joined: 29 Sep 2001 Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:47 amSubject:
But he doesn't want to fix it. He wants to continue whining about it. Some people like their misery.
Oh, and let's keep responding to him. He loves that. I was going to stop in another thread, but it's actually turned into a great way to pass a few minutes and relax from my work.
By the way, I suppose we could say "she." No reason to be sexist here and assume this troll is a man. For that matter, we can probably say "it" since it sounds like the person may be harboring some serious pent up frustration from some bad surgery.
CloseViewName:Guest Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:00 pmSubject:
You're running Jaguar on a G5? That's half your problem right there. 10.2.7 and 10.2.8 were poor decisions by APPLE in my own opinion, but they resolved everything with 10.3. 10.2.7 "Smeagol" was merely a bridge to put an OS that wasn't meant to run on a specific processor run on said processor. Not the best idea, and it wasn't 100%, but what apple did do was pretty amazing feet. They basically messed up with their timeing, and had to get the G5 out before 10.3 was released.
But you already showed one of your major problems. How about upgrade to 10.3.8 and let us know how that G5 runs. Also since you have shown you do not keep your machine up to date and you use that comparison for the overal performance of the software and hardware, it probably means you haven't updated your firmware as well. All these things will speed up your computer. Also, you haben't mentioned how much ram you have, or anything. It goes to clearly show you have no idea about the situation. Also, if you have software you have to run under 10.2, you should look at downgrading to a nice Dual G4.
One of the companies that I work for wanted to purchase their new POS systems and back of the house computers from Dell. The company is a franchisee of a national burger company, so we could tag onto the mother company's discounting agreement with Dell.
After contacting Dell, and telling them what we would like to purchase, we were quoted massively more expensive prices than in the Dell catalog sitting next to us. I eplained this to the person on the phone at which point it was explained to me that I was receiving corporate pricing. So again, I asked, so if I call you and want to order one POS terminal, I can buy it for nearly $600 less than a company purchasing 50 of them.
I heard silence. I said, hello, I just need to understand that this is what you are telling me.
The representative hung up on me.
I called back asking for a supervisor. Once the supervisor came on the phone, I gave him the quote number given to me by the sales rep., and began to ask him questions. Once I gave him the whole story and asked my question concerning the POS terminal. He then said, you are receiving corporate pricing.
It was as if I was stuck in an automated recording loop.
I explained again the price variance between the catalog that Joe Schmoo can receive in the mail and the supposed bulk discount our company should receive and asked him where the savings were. He then explained to me that I just can't do the simple math. They are already providing us a discount and that if I wanted to save the money, I would have to contact a standard sales rep at the 800 number in the catalog, to get the much greater discounted POS system. My response to this was that we would take our order elsewhere.
The budget for this project was nearly $500,000. Dells cut of it would have been nearly 60%. Instead, because of the pricing problems, the POS systems went to Panasonic and the back of the house systems went to HP.
What we ended up with came in well under budget(by nearly $150,000), thanks to Panasonics interest in our business, and it functions well. What we wanted, however, was one company to be responsible for the whole project and future projects.
Sadly, Dell doesn't seem to be interested in small to medium sized businesses. It seems that unless you are spending a great deal more than our budget - they show no concern.
heifer wrote: Guy I work with called Dell on one of their ads, to be given the treatment, bait and switch, add-on costs. He was very frustrated with the experience. Called later but had the same result. Knowing me exposed him to serious Apple propaganda, although I try to recommend the best solutions for people, which is most often a Mac, but not always.
Anyway, he called Apple and was so impressed with the knowledgeable, helpful and "not pushy" rep. He bought an iBook.
Thanks Dell.
It seems pretty clear that Dell uses an array of questionable selling techniques, but I wonder why such a large, successful PC manufacturer feels the need to indulge in these kinds of tricks?
Maybe they wouldn't be successful if they didn't.
Just a Thought - Is Dell Dissing Its Customers?