Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Cry, and you cry alone.

Yesterday, I installed 10.5 on two machines, a new alu. iMac and a last gen iBook G4. I used the update option on both. Neither had much non-Mac software such as Office or any haxies installed. Both started back up and were fine, although the iBook was busy for a while afterwards cataloging the files on the HD.

OK so do you think it was the third-party preference panes?

Which ones did you have and which ones did you remove?

You said you were successfully back up and running. Did you have to restore Tiger from your backup, then remove the mysterious non-Apple Preference Panes or were you able to remove them either from single user mode or with your crippled running Leopard system?

This article is long on links and short on details. It's the web, you have unlimited pixels, tell us something useful!

(OK, "beware" is useful, but everything else is appendix material.)

Ctopher,

The problem is that I'm not sure what made it possible for me to boot again. As I said, I was able to start up in Leopard after running the UNIX file system check twice. So FSCK worked for me, at least to get past the BSOD. To remedy the slowness and unexpected quitting that followed I moved at least 10 or 15 preference panes out of the Preference Pane folders and deleted ALL of my login items.

I haven't a clue which one(s) were causing my problems. Yet. Sure I could have listed all of the preference panes and login items, but my feeling is that the majority of them are totally innocent. So I'll add them back one by one over the next few days and if and when I find the culprit (or culprits), I'll let you (and everyone here) know.

My point was that there are a lot of people having issues and there's really no consensus as to what's causing it. I know it happened to me but I'm not sure why, or a reliable way to fix it. Yet.

So that's the reason the column is long on links... one of them may have the answer to YOUR issue. If I knew for sure what fixed mine (or if I even had a strong suspicion), I'd have gladly written another 5,000 words.

But I don't. At least not yet.

The object of the column was NOT that I had a fix for BSOD because I don't. I detailed the steps that worked for me because they might help someone else figure out how to get back up and running.

The object of the column WAS to let users know about these issues BEFORE they decide whether or not to install Leopard. And if they do decide to proceed, whether to use the more convenient but almost certainly more problematic Upgrade Install, or the less-convenient but probably safer Archive or Erase and Install.

I hope that helps...

Regards,

Bob "Dr. Mac" LeVitus

I of course backed up my data before the install. I repaired permissions using Disc Utility. I removed my 3rd party preference panes (ASM, ATI Displays, Divx, Flip4Mac WMV, Menu Meters, Microsoft keyboard and Microsoft Mouse). Leaving 3rd party pref panes in place during upgrades has caused my dock not to load in the past.

I loaded Leopard into my - hold your breath - FW800 500GB HD, the principal one I use, choosing Archive & Install. I left my 250GB FW800 external drive attached, as well as my USB devices (printer, keyboard, and Microsoft Trackball Explorer). The load took 1 hour on my 2GHz DP G5.

The automatic restart went absolutely smoothly. It took much longer than a normal startup, as every upgrade does - but it was truly no longer than with other upgrades. The Finder was a little slow to recognize my 250GB HD, but it did. Subsequent starts were absolutely normal.

No BSOD. No kernel panics. No freezes. Everything was where it should be.

There are several features that, in my opinion, even by themselves justify the cost of the upgrade - as you mentioned, Cover Flow and Preview. Still working with Spaces. Won't use any of the iChat stuff. This is a fun upgrade.

I ran Repair Permissions after the installation. It is VERY slow - ten minutes. One does not get the same indications as with 10.4 and prior. It was so slow I interrupted it twice, thinking the process had hung. Rebooted from the 10.5 DVD and ran it form there - same result. Finally it completed, but again it is slow.

I upgraded any now-outdated preference panes, and reloaded them - and still have no problem.

My 1TB FW800 HD should arrive on Thursday. I'll implement Time Machine then. Will probably switch to the 1TB as my primary drive, and split the backup duties between the other two.

Guest,

I just saw your last comment about splitting the backup duties between the other two FW hard drives. If I understand correctly, and if you were referring to using Time Machine, that won't work (for now). Time Machine only backs up to one hard drive. You can change that drive to something else, but you can't back-up to multiple drives simultaneously and then expect to go back in time over several drives without switching one out with the other. I'm guessing Apple will eventually open Time Machine up to seamless use of multiple hard drives at once with Time Machine archiving and file retrieval, since we all will eventually fill our externals up! With the Office 2004 (and guessing 2008) having one gigantic database file, Time Machine will update that entire database file each hour and each day it gets altered. That will fill up a HD quickly.

Ctopher,

It dawned on me that while I am not comfortable listing stuff I disabled because I suspect much of it is innocent, what I can do is list the third-party System Preference panes and login items I have loaded that _appear_ to work.

Notice I say "appear." I can't swear that these things won't cause issues for others, or even that they work, but right now they're loaded and not causing any issues on my MacBook Pro.

System Preference panes that appear to work:

Logitech Control Center (for my MX Revolution mouse)
FinderPop (which doesn't seem to work but isn't hurting anything either)
Flip4Mac WMV
iStat menus
M-Audio FireWire (doesn't work but isn't hurting)
Microsoft Keyboard
Mouse Locator
OpenBase
Plaxo
PowerChute (APC battery backup)
Startup Sound
Synergy
Version Cue CS3

Login Items that appear to work:

Snapz Pro X
ChronosNotesService
LaunchBar
DejaMenu
Microsoft Keyboard Helper
Skype
BackJack AutoLaunch
iStat menus Helper
EyeTV Helper
Skitch
Logitech Control Center
textsoapHelper
MacReporter
NTI Shadow
iTunes Helper
QuicKeys
MouseLocatorAgent

I hope that helps...

Regards,

Bob "Dr. Mac" LeVitus

have already said that their Application Enhancer won't work and most of the others, including ShapeShifter. I also read the the LogiTech Control Center was a problem, but according to Bob, apparently not.

As far as multiple backups, I am planning a strategy of TM on one external drive for the hourly incremental portion, and an overnight SuperDuper backup on another external for a full bootable clone.

I did a clean install, and everything was going fine until I downloaded Apple's Keychain update, and then the BS occurred on reboot. So, be wary of Apple's updates. They're rushing them out wish little beta testing. Actually, you're doing the beta testing of the rushed updates.

You're assuming, post hoc ergo propter hoc, that it was that update that gave you the problem. When I installed the Keychain update on both my PB and Intel iMac, I didn't have any problems.

What evidence do you have that Apple is doing little testing?

I did a standard "Upgrade" install on a relatively new iMac. Repaired permissions first, did a backup, disconnected all peripherals except the keyboard & mouse. Whole thing took under an hour including the DVD self-verification.

It all came up fine. Rehooked everything up, no problems with the printer, the external hard drive or the scanner. All my programs seem to work just fine.

Discovered a clever little nifty in the screen savers. If you select Pictures from iPhoto, there is an option to create mosaics of your photos using tiles from your iPhoto library. It can be mesmerizing.

I didn't mean to post and run away, but you know how "work" can get in the way.

I wanted to say thank you for responding to my post. I guess I was a little frustrated because I kept reading about people having trouble, but even some of the links you sent us off to were short on details.

That being said, I really do appreciate your responses and I agree that the article served it purpose without the hairy details. What I like about TMO and these articles is that we CAN ask and even RECEIVE those details with follow-up posts. My hats off to you.

As for myself, I read all I could, then just backed everything up and did a clean install. I'm still recovering from the backup (manually) but so far my Leopard experience is a good one. I will be referring back to your posts here as I get my machine back up.

Thanks again for your timely response and I apologize for my late acknowledgment.

Keep Rockin' Dr. Mac!

I make no pretense of being an expert MAC dude!!!

Now - I did the install of Leopard with backing up the entire system using Backup to my external LaCie drive, did the install to a formatted disc. Foud out that Time Machine does not "see" the backup. Damn...

Tried to manually move files back... not good... reinstalled Tiger and restored... still not too good, but better. Reinstalled Leopard using upgrade.

Whee - sort of worked. Adobe requires program reinstall for Photoshop (another whole story).

OK - running more or less just fine... now, install iLife 08 F@#k- BSOD at end of install...

I am taking it in to the local Apple store on Saturday to let them worry about it.

Tillman in Florida

Wait, people are having problems with Mac OS X upgrade? I thought that only happened with shoddy software like Windows.

Well, when one has 3d party stuff and upgrades, the company cannot really be responsible for the 3d party stuff... in that cse, you pays your moneyandtakes your chances.

It is virtually impossible for Apple to test all of the apps sitting out there.

Tillman

Quote

Guest wrote:
Well, when one has 3d party stuff and upgrades, the company cannot really be responsible for the 3d party stuff... in that cse, you pays your moneyandtakes your chances.

It is virtually impossible for Apple to test all of the apps sitting out there.

Tillman

My upgrade was flawless.... as smooth butter...iMac G5, single user account. Not a glitch.

I believe I'm blessed by Steve Jobs...more power to Apple!

Original Mac user since 1984. Original Mac # 00005.

Go, Steve, go!

Yup, they are because they are far better, and hence more expectations on their shoulders