I know you Mac idolators can't handle the truth, but read the article and find out how you've been fooled.

No one ever "fooled" me into thinking that Seth Jayson liked Apple.

I mean, that's all I learned here...that he doesn't like the products. That's nice, but it doesn't really change anything.

EDIT: OOPS! I forgot that in your world, opinions = facts. So sorry, I forgot.

If you don't get what makes a Mac special, well, I feel sorry for you.

It's that simple.

Didn't Walt mossberg used to be a PC user, and then switched to Mac? Makes Jayson's insults seem more pathetic IMO.

LOL --- yer so cute, RC. anyway, again, I already wasted too much oxygen just mentioning your initials. But here goes for some more usual banter in your direction... what truth? That Dells cost less but come with even LESS crap? That to put on a Dell the same software equivalent in usefullness to oh.. let's be nice, iLife *04*, would bump it up another 2 or 3 hundred?

Hey - make sure to tell your parents to let us all know when you leave this planet so we know when we can celebrate...

Guest: Yep, Mossberg hasn't been real pleased with Macs until the swivel flat screen iMac and OS X came out. Those changed his mind.

"The most interesting magic trick here is the illusion -- somehow completely lost on the mainstream press -- that this is really a $500 computer. Check out this sleight of hand."

Seth Jayson does make a point here - most buyers will spend more than $500 when they start adding options. But all companies do this. Have you ever bought a car for the MSRP that you see in the ads? Not likely once they add on the "optons". That's how they make money.

nuff said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4168027.stm

According to the bio on the Motley Fool, Seth Jayson is an "Art historian, photojournalist, and Fool writer Seth Jayson is just a curious Iron Range boy who relishes the challenges of living cheaply and investing successfully . . . [and a] nerd who never lets ignorance stop him from disassembling expensive machinery or trying to build his own PCs and TiVos, he's interested in computers, software, and every other kind of gee-whiz technology out there."

The phrases "living cheaply" and "trying to build his own PCs" are is some ways mutually exclusive from Apple.

For it's intended audience they can get a Mac for 5-600 bucks. Period. End-of-story.

Look. Anyone can spin this as they see fit. I am probably a typical customer who will soon be looking for new machine on the cheap. I have a formidable display...a perfectly good keyboard...two or three mice laying around. I'm set. I also get a Mac that runs OS X NOW!!! (Tiger too) You can bet that when Longhorn finally makes its debut, it will require purchasing a new system as well.

RC...most people buying the Mac mini would probably only pick up a new keyboard to bash your head. (Best $30 bucks they'd ever spend too...)

This isn't the last new product Apple will ever produce, either. I can hardly wait to see what they'll come up with next. And besides...Apple's Kool-Aid tastes better. : )

OK, let's admit that the Mac Mini is not a $499 computer.
You have to add: keyboard, mouse, monitor to make it into a computer.
Also let's admit that Dell sells a complete computer for $499 (the Dimension 3000:) which includes a 15-inch LCD monitor.
So, the cheapest Mac would be $750 (Mini + cheap keyboard + cheap mouse + cheap LCD 15-inch monitor).
Comparing the products is difficult as each has different strengths and weknesses. For example: Dell +512 MB, -CDROM (no RW, no DVD), +PCI slots, -integrated video, -no modem, -no FireWire, +faster CPU, -bundled software

All of this is not relevant!
What is important is that you can buy a Mac for $750. This is 1/2 the price of the cheapest Mac that was available last week.
This removes PRICE as the primary objection about Macs.

,dave

Anyone who would compare an Apple to a PC is just an id10t. Do you get a virus free machine with a PC? Do you get iLife with a PC (free by the way, find a similar product for a PC and tell me how much it is?) Do you get a spyware free machine with a PC? Do you get a built in (secure) web server with a PC? Do you get a built in FTP server with a PC?

PC users have accepted the fact that they “need” a virus scan program (heck, SP2 screams like crazy if you don’t have one). They accept that they need a spyware scanner (MS now offers you one (another revenue stream)). Why should I have to dedicate my CPU time to either of those?

Trust me, I’m an ex-PC-User, and an IT professional who supports MS all day long.

Dude, what can you do with 499 and a PC?
1. Surf the web, if you are patient
2. Use Office, if you are patient.
And here's what you HAVE to do:
1. Take viruses out
2. Service the thing every two months
3. Be on the phone with support to see why it's not working right
4. Deal with the stupid interfeace
5. Learn a bunch of useless stuff to operate it
6. Find a place to put it out of sight, so that it doesn't ruin the aesthetics of the room.

What can you do with an $800 Mac?
1. Be proud to demonstrate it in the middle of the room
2. Surf the net fast
3. Use Office or DTP grade software (iWork) with unbelievable ease
4. Write music easily
5. Make movies easily
6. Use it for digital photography very easily
7. Show off your work as in music CD's and photo books
8. Enjoy playing around with a cutting edge OS in graphics and functionality that doesn't crash

Oh, yeah... and you don't HAVE to do anything.

The Motley Fool is supposed to be a resource for stock market investors. Take a look at its analysis and then take a look at Apple's stock price over the past two years. Indeed, the Motley Fool is for foolish investors.

I have three keyboards, four or more mice, and at least one monitor I could use with about any system. Most PC users end up with new mice and keyboards with every CPU upgrade.

The only problem might be that two of my keyboards are PS/2, but the local Office Depot has a USB keyboard for $20. I think I could manageg $20. A USB mouse is $10 (for a junk one) or $19 for a nice Logitech.

For all of $550 I could hook this up to an existing monitor or television. Very cool media hub!

- PoetCSW

We've been fooled? I'm sorry, is the Shuffle really a pack of gum? Was the Mac Mini a cardboard mock-up? Isn't it $500? What were we fooled about?

I think it's time that he stops writing about Apple. His email will be full for the remainder of January!

The Mac mini is aimed squarely at two audiences - switchers and schools. In both cases, the customer probably already has a keyboard, mouse, and screen. (Apple even makes a point in the product description that it will "work with your two-button, scroll-wheel mouse.") For these people, it really is a $499 computer (or $479, education price). It's a turnkey system with all the software normal people would need. A school can refresh an entire 15-computer lab for only $7,185. If they decide to lease them, it will only cost them $2,500 per year for three years. Now that's a deal.

Is Seth Jayson still in his sick bed?

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Guest wrote:
Anyone who would compare an Apple to a PC is just an id10t. Do you get a virus free machine with a PC? Do you get iLife with a PC (free by the way, find a similar product for a PC and tell me how much it is?) Do you get a spyware free machine with a PC? Do you get a built in (secure) web server with a PC? Do you get a built in FTP server with a PC?

Quote

Guest wrote:
PC users have accepted the fact that they “need” a virus scan program (heck, SP2 screams like crazy if you don’t have one).

Quote

Guest wrote:
They accept that they need a spyware scanner (MS now offers you one (another revenue stream)). Why should I have to dedicate my CPU time to either of those?

Trust me, I’m an ex-PC-User, and an IT professional who supports MS all day long.

Quote:

Do you get a built in (secure) web server with a PC? Do you get a built in FTP server with a PC?


Windows XP does come with IIS, which supports web hosting and FTP.

He did say SECURE web server... hehehe

Just thinking:

Do guys like Jayson choose dates/girlfriends like they do PCs?

Do they choose plain girls with no education or sense of style, and who will happily consider going to McDonalds on Saturday night? Or, do they prefer a good looking well-educated girl with a good sense of style, and who expects to go a white-tablecloth restaurant on a date?

The irony here is the plainer girl of PCs is the high-maintenance one; she is a hypochondriac who needs constant medical attention.

The Mac Mini is not *as cheap as* the cheapest PC, but it is the cheapest Mac you can get. if you need a monitor and keyboard, you can get them, either from a third party or from Apple (most cheaply in the form of an eMac).

It isn't correct to say "the Mac Mini is as cheap as the cheapest PC" but it rather "you are interested in the Mac and already have a monitor, keyboard & mouse? Well, here's one that's only $500." There is still a bit of a premium over say the cheapest Dell or a white-box clone, but you get better software and industrial design for that money.

a third market for the cheap mini is the people who want soemthing they can hook up to their television and show off photos

or be able to move a desktop (with good speeds) to a projector in a multimedia room without having to rely on format compatibilities, and also weight of moving a tower

or, people like me who have a laptop and want a mac to compliment each other, but dont have the money to spend on other computers-- when it is simple to attach to any TV

TRO

Quote

davebarnes wrote:
OK, let's admit that the Mac Mini is not a $499 computer.
You have to add: keyboard, mouse, monitor to make it into a computer.

You're forgetting about the people who are stuck using Windows at work because their bosses won't buy them a Mac because "it's not compatible" (ick) or (in my case) "PCs work fine for everyone else, and if you quit your job for some reason, I can't just pass the Mac on to someone else, 'cause they won't know how to use it!"

There's no way I would have spent $800+ of my own money on a "strictly for work Mac" since I already have one at home...but $500 to get rid of Windows forever? I can sneak the mini into the office, hook up my existing work keyboard, mouse, and LCD...and the mini is so small that no one will even notice it's there.

I'm sold.

From that Fool, Seth Jayson, today:

"Of course, when you talk smack, sometimes you get smacked back. Like now.

Mmmmm... crow."

"I believe that everyone who disagreed with me about the widening appeal of Mac computers has earned the right to a hearty Nelson Muntz "Ha ha!" For now, even this critic is a believer."

http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2005/commentary05011301.htm

You said, "I know you Mac idolators can't handle the truth, but read the article and find out how you've been fooled."

RC, read this one and see how we've been fooled...
(In reference to MonkeyT's post with:)
http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2005/commentary05011301.htm

RC, where's your pathetic retort to this...the same writer you were glowing about earlier? He admitted error. Can you?

Mr. Motley definitely changed his song and maybe his dance steps. IMO, Apple definitely made the right steps yesterday. They are marketing an inexpensive computer with style and have entered an arena of the MP3 market that they don't currently dominate. And, in all fairness, yesterday was the fist evidence that the iPod halo effect exists. Maybe we should come up with a new label, MFLemming? It will be an interesting year.

Quote

RealityCheck wrote:
I know you Mac idolators can't handle the truth, but read the article and find out how you've been fooled.

Why do I need t buy a monitor, keyboard or mouse? i can use my existing components,,,,

I think Seth speaks for RC as well when he says:

"Mmm... crow."

AND

"Seth Jayson is heading to the store for some kerosene so he can torch his Windows machines and replace them all with Macs."

Read it an' WEEP RC, ya numbskull :

http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2005/commentary05011301.htm

Products have certain MARKETS, and like one guy already said... the Mac Mini market is for SWITCHERS AND SCHOOLS... and, like Jobs said, it is meant for people who already have a mouse, keyboard, and monitor... hence the point of the KVM switch Jobs mentioned (the one sold in the accessories section of the Mini Mac). The sticking point is that the keyboard and mouse have to be USB, but a lot pf PC's use the old connecter (I can't recall the name of it... serial maybe? ), which the Mini Mac doesn't have.

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
Products have certain MARKETS, and like one guy already said... the Mac Mini market is for SWITCHERS AND SCHOOLS... and, like Jobs said, it is meant for people who already have a mouse, keyboard, and monitor... hence the point of the KVM switch Jobs mentioned (the one sold in the accessories section of the Mini Mac). The sticking point is that the keyboard and mouse have to be USB, but a lot pf PC's use the old connecter (I can't recall the name of it... serial maybe? ), which the Mini Mac doesn't have.

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
... The sticking point is that the keyboard and mouse have to be USB, but a lot pf PC's use the old connecter ...

As much as I love my Cube (and yes, I'm saving up for an iMac), we have to be honest about the Mac - even the Mac mini.

It's really not intended for the mass market.

There. I've said it. The Mac will always be for those who put quality over price - that's right the "elite". It is designed for graphic designers and people who want reliability, which price is not an issue. It is not (really) for people who just want to play computer games (although Mac games do exist - but mostly on the internet, not at Circuit City or whatever).

WinTel users will always see price, price, price and the fact that most stores don't carry Macs anyways. The fact that most PCs will have problems is taken for granted, and part of the price you pay for owning a computer.

The mini is a step in the right direction, but again, it's not for the first time user or someone on a budget.

Will the Mac ever become mainstream, and able to compete head-to-head for the mass market and those on a budget? Actually, I think yes - but not for a couple of years. But the mini shows us that it's possible.

Now, the only obstacle is that pesky lack of Mac software....