VEry cool. BUt AGain IT is ALl about THe $.

A $5000 prosumer DV camcorder will have the features of a 1CCD camcorder in miniDV.

So in essence you get great quality, SHIITE for features and options you expect to find on $3500+ camcorders.

i.e. you wont get XL-1 features (though it only costs $3500) on this $5000 machine.

F*CK YOU ELECTRONIC MANUFACTURING WHORES!!!!

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Anonymous wrote:

i.e. you wont get XL-1 features (though it only costs $3500) on this $5000 machine.

What features? What does the XL-1 have that the FX-1 does not?

How much color information could a 1080 image have at 25MB/s? I wouldn't use a camera with these specs to shoot SD let alone HD! I guess we'll get an influx of bad HD video very soon. Of course I suppose it would be nice for people to be able to shoot their home movies in HD since they will eventually have HD TVs. So I guess I'll be nice and stop ragging on this camera. Just don't go thinking you can film the next Star Wars with this thing. Save yourself the trouble and rent a good SD camera.

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Biff wrote:
How much color information could a 1080 image have at 25MB/s? I wouldn't use a camera with these specs to shoot SD let alone HD!

It's 4:2:0 sampling, the same as PAL DV. HDV is a variation of MPEG2, so the space savings are temporal, not from color loss.

Here's how you should look at it:

HDV is to HDCAM
as
DV is to Digital Betacam

So no, not the same thing, you're right...but you'll be seeing it on all the cable shows soon, I'd wager. Most of them are shot with DVCAM or DVCPRO now, so they'll probably switch to this format (or a pro version of it, anyway) once HD is really out in full force.

You're right, it's not the most amazing DV camera ever...you wouldn't shoot Star Wars with it...but anyone who uses a PD-170 or a DVX-100A now should certainly think of this as the HD version of their currect camera...and I know there are a LOT of people who are happy with those two cameras now.

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Small White Car wrote:
It's 4:2:0 sampling, the same as PAL DV. HDV is a variation of MPEG2, so the space savings are temporal, not from color loss.

So no, not the same thing, you're right...but you'll be seeing it on all the cable shows soon, I'd wager. Most of them are shot with DVCAM or DVCPRO now, so they'll probably switch to this format (or a pro version of it, anyway) once HD is really out in full force.

MPEG2?!? Woah I'm definitely staying away from that! 4:2:0 certainly beats vanilla DV. While a show such as Jackass might like a camera of this type, most shows are shot with broadcast quality cameras that cost $30k+. I don't think their DP's are going to be interested in the reduced color space and compression artifacts of HDV or the inferiors optics of a camera in this price range. But of course having HD cameras in this price range certainly means HD is starting to come to the masses. This should mean professional HD will soon become price competitive with shooting SD. And thats certainly good as the switch to HD ever so slowly draws closer.

From the filmmaking side of things, we aren't too excited about this camera.
No one really wants to be bothered with native mpeg 2 video. This appraoch will be better with mpeg 4 perhaps.

But there are several SD camera formats with far less compression, more color samping, that will cause less grief down the post production chain.

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Biff wrote:
While a show such as Jackass might like a camera of this type, most shows are shot with broadcast quality cameras that cost $30k+.

I'm betting you'll see this on a lot more shows than you think. No, not network dramas or comedies, of course...but things like that show "Airport" on cable are already being shot on PD-150s. A lot of those home-improvement type shows use small cameras as secondary cameras to supliment their main camera.

And that's exactly what you'll see this camera do in the future...work on lower budget cable shows, to shoot in places where smaller cameras are needed, or as a secondary camera on a show that has a "main" camera but it can't be everywhere at once.

But yeah, at the end of the day, it IS a $5,000 camera. Nothing more.

But I am willing to bet we WILL see $30,000 HDV cameras in the years to come. Like I said, maybe a "pro" version of HDV, but probably very similar. This camera is going to be like the DVX-1000 was with DV...yeah, that wasn't a fantastic camera, but look where it lead...to everything from the DVX-100A to DVCPRO50. HDV will be the same. Don't judge it too much on one early camera.

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Anonymous wrote:
From the filmmaking side of things, we aren't too excited about this camera.

Oh, yeah, and Sony knows it. They didn't even offer a 24p mode because this is a camera for broadcasters. Like I said, the cable-tv-show makers will LOVE this thing. Anyone who does reality TV...likewise.

But no, it's not a filmaker's camera.

But there are several SD camera formats with far less compression, more color samping, that will cause less grief down the post production chain.

Is it really possible that starting with a lower quality SD original could somehow get you a higher quality finished product?

HDV's resolution is 1440x1080i. With 4-2-0 color sub-sampling, that gives you a chroma resolution of 720x540! That's higher then any uncompressed NTSC could get you, even if it was 4-4-4 sampled. BTW, DV's 4-1-1 color resolution is 180x480i. I have a hunch that HDV will always look better.

If you happen to have a uncompressed SD workflow, one thing you can do is shoot with this camera in HD mode, and then convert to NTSC for editing. All the mpeg artifacts and color subsampling would exist only at resolutions beyond 480i anyway, so the output ought to look as good as uncompressed NTSC.

Oh, another neat thing about this camera is that it does have 16x9 CCDs (obviously) but you can use those to record an anamorphic DV signal if you want!

Forget HDV, at the very least, this is one of the best DV camcorders out there!

Much as I love my GL2, I might take a look at this one. I'd love to see a head-to-head against the XL-2 however.

can you load into FC4 or AVID dv express pro at 1080i or is the down converter in the FX1 able to allow you to load as SD mini DV ???

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Anonymous wrote:
can you load into FC4 or AVID dv express pro at 1080i or is the down converter in the FX1 able to allow you to load as SD mini DV ???

Right now you can capture and edit in Final Cut Pro with a plug-in that costs a few hundred dollars...but Apple says they'll support HDV soon and I've HEARD that they simply bought that exact same product. It's likely you'll native-HDV support in FCP in the next few months. Possibly as a free upgrade, but I really don't know.

Avid I don't know about...I don't think they support it yet, but I'm sure that'll change too.

Premiere Pro needs a plug in right now too, but I THINK it might be free...

So in other words, you CAN edit it now, but if you just wait a few months it will become much cheaper.

I know you can play HDV video in the camera and have it convert to DV as it plays...I DON'T know if that means you can capture right from it as DV, but hey, I can't see why not. But again, I'm not positive about that.

IIRC, Premire Pro has a free download to support HD. As for FCP, isn't it called FCP-HD for a reason? Or are we talking about the old version?

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AFCdtLoeb wrote:
IIRC, Premire Pro has a free download to support HD. As for FCP, isn't it called FCP-HD for a reason? Or are we talking about the old version?

It does do HD video, just not HDV yet. You wouldn't be able to capture and edit it without this:

http://www.lumierehd.com/

Its' $180, I see.

Final Cut Pro currently does DVCPROHD over firewire with no extra hardware. It can handle other HD formats if you have the correct hardware to capture it.

But for HDV you'd either need this plug-in, or you have to wait a little while. The good news is that HDV will be another "over-firewire" video that won't need a special capture card.

I am a pro Wedding videographer, saw this cam at a exclusive Sony prsentation. The color representation is amazing. the detail is amazing after only a few seconds I knew I had to have it. It truely is the next wave. As much as I love my DVX 100 they are now aux cams. I am only waiting to seeing what Panasonic has to say at the next NAB show.

Darin

CNN-Beta SX
Fox-Beta SP
MSNBC-Beta SP

A lot of people are very excited by this camera and part of the reason is that although the data rate for HDV seems awfully low -- often cited at 19MBS -- less than even DV's 25MPS, we must remember that for most viewers at home, looking at HD cable or HD broadcast or first generation HD DVD's, that data rate is standardized at 19 MPS. This does not mean that many shows will be shot or edited at this low data rate, few high end productions will, but all shows will be compressed to it. So ask yourself, if your video is going to be compressed to 19 MBS anyway, how much do you gain by recording it at 50-400+MBS. The answer is you gain a lot, especially the ability to a lot more in post (this is where the interframe compression scheme exacts a high penalty,) but in terms of just image quality delivered to the viewer, most of your gains are due to your camera head and lenses and production values typically being so much better and costly. From first reports, the lens and chips and signal processing on this camera seem to be very good. So it should not be dismissed, in any case, not because of qualms about its high compression rate.