Real taking shots at Apple is one thing, but Real trying to pretend to be consumer advocates fighting for "freedom" is just transparently fake marketing. It's this insulting hucksterism that's got people annoyed at Real, that they think their audience is dumb enough to rally to their cause if they simply say a few words about "freedom," and ignore the problems and hypocrisy of the folks behind the campaign.

Hmmm... reminds me of Bush-Cheney 2004.

Every since Real screwed over their Mac customers some years back through an "upgrade" of the Gold member software that (without warning) cut all Mac users out of the service. Thank goodness they at least stopped billing my credit card!

A few years later they suddenly wanted me back with a flood of email pleas to join the super deluxe "SuperPass" service! Well, they burned me as a customer once... never again!

Now they seem to be back to the same old tricks again, spitting in the face of Apple and cutting off Mac users once again from their "freedom of choice." Many of us who experienced the REAL Real experience (both Mac AND PC users) and their total disregard for customers (not to mention invasive software installations) have long memories.

I, for one, hope they quickly go out of business as they attempt yet another debt-inducing endevour! Three strikes and you're OUT!

-Ken P

Your three strikes are great but lets look at Real's proprietary flagship Real Player. It may run on Mac now but it does not allow a user to use any other media player. Why can't I use Quicktime player? Real has always tried to make itself the standard. They should use open standards for all of thier own products and support all platforms first, then they can cast stones at Apple.

Frankly, I'm happy to let people go ahead and try Harmony. They'll get the buggy program and poor user interface - then they'll find they can't even use iTunes at all anymore, and I doubt they'll stay Real customers for long.

I found that there's another petition, this one for those who believe that Real should stop this "Freedom of Music Choice" publicity stunt. What's funny is that this one has gathered more signatures that the other two petitions combined!

Don't break my Petition, iTMS Users!

Apple idolators flooded the petition with insightful comments such as:

"Glaser you're a fat loser who needs to change his diaper"

Why are iLemmings so frighten by a choice to buy higher quality music at a lower price? No one has to buy from Real. If you want to pay twice as much for lower quality music at iTunes go ahead.

Maybe iLemmings are frighten because they know it's a better deal than Apple, maybe their golden idol is a false god.

It would be a place where we could really have fun.

This "Freedom" campaign is based on lies and misperceptions (hence my headline).

I download free, legal music from various online stores every week*. The iPod just so happens to play the most popular compression format - mp3. Any site offering mp3s can sell to iPod users. Seems to me that's all Real has to do.

I wish more of the umpteen-bajillion articles written on this subject had bothered to mention this teensy-weensy little discrepancy that just so happens to completely discredit Real.

Not that it's hard to discredit Real. I'm just sayin'.

*InSound and Better Propaganda are my favorites. Also try Fingertips and Lunchbox.

Quote

RealityCheck wrote:
No one has to buy from Real. If you want to pay twice as much for lower quality music at iTunes go ahead.

This has NOTHING to do with Apple or iTunes or ANY of this. The bottom line is that REAL is a terrible company who will screw you in the end. ALWAYS.

I DARE you to try the REAL music service and come back and tell us how great it is. I'm sure you won't because I bet you know how terrible their company is just like the rest of us know.

If this was any other company doing this I'd probably have tried it out by now. But no REAL software is ever coming near any of my computers again. Ever.

I don't care how cheap it is. If someone offered to kick you in the crotch for $0.49 are you telling me you'd buy that?

Quote

RealityCheck wrote:
Apple idolators flooded the petition with insightful comments such as:

"Glaser you're a fat loser who needs to change his diaper"

Why are iLemmings so frighten by a choice to buy higher quality music at a lower price? No one has to buy from Real. If you want to pay twice as much for lower quality music at iTunes go ahead.

Maybe iLemmings are frighten because they know it's a better deal than Apple, maybe their golden idol is a false god.

Apple hater flooded the messageboard with "insightful" comments such as:

"I'm an idiot troll"

Why is Reality Check so frightened by a choice to buy higher quality hardware/software at a competitive price? No one has to buy from Apple. If you want to pay twice as much for lower quality hardware/software at the other guys.

Maybe Reality Check is frightened because he knows it's a better deal than all the other guys, maybe the one he seems to hate is truely the best.

kind of partial to Buffalo Wings.

This looks familiar...real lost its media playing market dominance a long time ago, and now they are reverting to the basic instincts of an animal that can feel it's impending doom...they have nothing useful or valuable to offer the world at large, therefore they will piss off as many people as possible as they dwindle into obscurity. In the end, it won't matter to them who they offend because they're now at the stage of "grab all you can and run." What a shame!

I liked th[buffering 10%}e post o[buffering 12%]n the poll making fun[buffering 25%] of Real's horrid player.

Even Windows Medial Player has more elegance than Real's

RC continues with his usual habit of taking one or two examples, and assuming that they represent the whole. This can be seen with his supposed Apple quality issues (despite the fact that PC Magazine rated Apple highest in quality, using more than a few data points) and can be seen here. What I find amusing is that the very name-calling that RC is pointing out is his usual modus operandi here at TMO.

Although the petitions do tend towards some childish, RC-like comments, there's some fairly well thought-out arguments on the "Freedom of Music Choice" site. And sorry, they're not "Apple idolators" since many iPod owners use Windows.

As I pointed out, Real's "choice" premise is bogus. It isn't available to Mac users, and the company itself doesn't stand behind their service. Their own EULA states that if, at some point in the future, their unauthorized use of Apple's DRM breaks, it isn't their problem. Some freedom! If they wanted to offer real (pardon the pun) choice, they'd offer music with no DRM attached. But that's when you start getting into the demands of the RIAA...

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RealityCheck wrote:
Maybe iLemmings are frighten because they know it's a better deal than Apple, maybe their golden idol is a false god.

As a X-tian (and I'm only speaking for my self), I'm insulted that you would insinuate graven-image worship among some of us Apple customers.

I spit on your IQ (as low as it comes across).

-PontiMac X

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Anonymous wrote:
X-tian

Wow. And you're so respectful of Christ that you shorthand his name with a capital X!

The 'x' has been an acceptible 'shorthand' name for Christ for a long, long time. Third or fourth century, I believe.

OD

Quote

spxyu02 wrote:

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
X-tian

Wow. And you're so respectful of Christ that you shorthand his name with a capital X!

As usual, RC cannot comment on anything of substance, so he has to resort to cheap insults. Too bad he's guilty of doing exactly what he accuses the "iLemmings" of.

No matter how the "iLemmings" behave, it does not change the fact that Real is pathetic, dying company trying to freeload its way to profitability. Real has nothing to offer anyone, and does not deserve to exist.

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
The 'x' has been an acceptible 'shorthand' name for Christ for a long, long time. Third or fourth century, I believe.

That may be, but there's nothing as stupid as abbreviating the word "Christian" with "X-tian", were you too busy to type the other 3 letters?

"Guest
Subject: How about a cold bear and some hot wings...
kind of partial to Buffalo Wings."

It's been a long time since I had some good ole cold bear and some buffalo.

It actually reminds me of Kerry & Edwards.
As strange a Bush may be, I would never trust a smiling lawyer.
And I'm talking Edwards.

Quote

Guest wrote:
Real taking shots at Apple is one thing, but Real trying to pretend to be consumer advocates fighting for "freedom" is just transparently fake marketing. It's this insulting hucksterism that's got people annoyed at Real, that they think their audience is dumb enough to rally to their cause if they simply say a few words about "freedom," and ignore the problems and hypocrisy of the folks behind the campaign.

Hmmm... reminds me of Bush-Cheney 2004.

Quote

spxyu02 wrote:

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
X-tian

Wow. And you're so respectful of Christ that you shorthand his name with a capital X!

Where X represents the Greek letter chi. In other words, it's His initial.

It's as much freedom of choice as Microsoft's FIN network was the freedom to innovate. Real is just a M$ castoff.

I was reading through the comments a couple days ago... oh I wish I could see steve jobs now... I apple and him were laughing their butts off.

Wasn't this the buffoon who claimed not long ago that Sony 's music at lower bit rates was just as good as Apples so didn't matter lol. Now it seems that higher bit rates are better. You really do change with the wind, or should I say hot air. No change there then. Choice and equality are integral or it simply isnt choice at all and there is nothing about equlity in this Real desparate survival bid. You are the last person to preach about equality and choice when this is a totally new concept to your arguments. After all you, as a PC clown want your own choice to be the only choice ie any colour you want as long as its black. Your idea of choice is if you don't want a Dell pc then buy a HP pc, yep that will make a big difference to the user experience. Problem with people like you is that first you form an opinion then you seek only the evidence to support your own ignorance and bigotry. However I do accept that such behaviour is definately your own choice lol.

Quote

spxyu02 wrote:

Quote

Anonymous wrote:
The 'x' has been an acceptible 'shorthand' name for Christ for a long, long time. Third or fourth century, I believe.

That may be, but there's nothing as stupid as abbreviating the word "Christian" with "X-tian", were you too busy to type the other 3 letters?

They just didn't show up on time!
If I typed B.A.C. you guy (& gals) would be asking what I was talking about, instead of usually asking the terminally Clueless one what he/she is talking about.

-PontiMac X

Apparently Reality Check is Paul Thurrot (however you spell it).

Get a life, man.

How funny is it that Real has now removed the ability to post comments on their "Freedom Of Music Choice" website?!! First they removed the comments from their "petition", then they removed the names of the signers of their "petition", now they have removed the ability to post comments about the articles on their webite (as well as removing all of the older articles along with the comments posted with them!) If you had registered with their website and had posted any comments you can still view the older articles that your posts showed up on. You can no longer post comments on the older articles either! The overwhelming majority of comments exposed RealNetwork's hypocrisy in this whole sordid episode. I guess that Real now knows that "FREEDOM" has a price! Check it out:

http://www.freedomofmusicchoice.org/index.php

As the previous poster has already pointed out, Real seems to have yet again removed the ability for folks to use their Freedom of Speech on the Freedom of Music Choice site. I was having a grand time last night commenting on several articles, and the folks who were obvious Real shills (you can tell by the silly way they put a dash into any word that has o-n in it) only seemed to be about Real's choice to hack FairPlay to make more money for their store.

When I challenged them to explain why, if their site was all about choice, they were still offering DRM-enabled music, they didn't know quite what to say. Not that I'm saying that Real is special in this respect; I would also challenge Apple or any other music store to offer DRM-free content. But this is where one gets into an area that gets the RIAA panties in a twist.

Anyone who claims to offer true choice, but wraps their music in DRM, isn't offering true choice, but just their brand of it. Unfortunately, Apple isn't trying to wave the choice flag, but it looks like Real's bogus campaign will go down because of the false claim.

Seems that you can view all of the news articles and associated comments by using a URL of the following format:

http://www.freedomofmusicchoice.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Replace "&sid=4" with another number to read the corresponding news article and comments. Unfortunately, there are some RC-like name calling, but you can pretty clearly identify which posts are from Real employees...

This is truly sad. Real's share price took a dive this week as the markets react to what can only be described as third-rate, sleazy tactics IMHO.

Again IMHO it would be better for Real to place itself up for sale than for executives to act in such a sophomoric way to try and win sales.

I think it's time to start our own "Freedom of Choice" campaign and team up with both the Linux and Amiga communities to inform the computing world exactly what Real is NOT doing while being every bit of a hypocrite at the same time.

Have a read of Rob Glaser's Q&A (not open to the public forum by the way);

http://www.freedomofmusicchoice.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=index&catid=&topic=7

Notice how he tries to sugarcoat the truth by sidestepping the real issue at hand? Real clearly contradicts itself if you read what Rob is trying to explain with his viewpoint, how absurd?!

Why is the world so blind by the fact that the Windows monopoly that Microsoft still maintains today overshadows any real "Freedom of Choice" and that the attitude is that everyone should be using a Windows PC because of [place lame reasoning here] and bla, bla, bla!

From Real's own point of view, consumers should have choice in every possible stop & shop market while at the same time ignoring computer desktop market. I mean, they're not saying that outright, but they're surely portraying that sort of attitude.

I think Real either doesn't know what they're doing or they know more than what they lead us to believe.

1- Maybe Real didn't even think that their campaign might raise eyebrows on the very subject of "choice" and it was too late by then to pull the plug on the mess they made.

2- Maybe Real know exactly what they're doing and saw an opportunity to play on the sympathies of joe 'Windows' user out there and create this fabricated controversy between the Mac and Windows communities hoping to maybe recruit some Windows zealots over to Real Player while creating turmoil in the iPod/iTunes user community.

3- Maybe using the old "Open" versus "Proprietary" propaganda trick, Real thought they might be able to undermine the success of Apple's true cross-platform solution that is iPod via iTunes for your Mac or PC choice.

I think it's time to inform consumers on what "Real Freedom of Choice" is and I think an informative/advocacy group should be formed with the above moniker. It should represent the major alternative computing platforms (but include newer emerging platforms as well) i.e. Mac, Linux and Amiga since those computing platforms exist on the market and are available to the consumer (as do other emerging computer platforms). It should be a collaborative effort between the Mac, Linux and Amiga communities to help inform the buying public that there is choice out there in the desktop computer market. Also, I think that we need to actively challenge such hypocrisy and half truths (such as the one we have here with Real and their campaign) and raise the red flag to inform people of such nonsense as we got to see this past week.

We all (no matter if you're a Windows, Mac, Linux, Amiga and/or [place your preferred platform here]) deserve "Freedom of Choice"!

While I think that it's obvious that real is not offering anyone any 'freedom of choice' (and neither is apple), everyone should just shut the hell up because you can still buy cds that offer no-DRM and *gasp* higher audio quality! Who'd have thought that maybe the quality of the music would be important when we're talking about, um, music.

There are several problems with Real's latest attempt at a product. While I feel they have the right to provide a method for their users to copy their music to an iPod, Apple has just as much of a right to tweak their DRM & the iPods firmware to block them. It seems as though they at best parallel pathed their negotiations (?) with Apple with the development of their software. Now that Apple said 'No', they decide to blame Apple & launch this hysterical Ad campaign (A local radio station is giving away a 40GB iPod & 50 free Real downloads).

The other major flaw is the fact that their freedom providing software works on only one platform. Another funny note is that according to Real, "Real Music Store purchases will now play on more devices than every other store put together." How is that possible? Wouldn't that mean that there are music players that only Real supports? I don't think so.

There worse than lame. I haven't used real for many years, cause they suck so bad. It was around 1998 or so and I downloaded real player. BAD mistake, what crap. Clunky, buggy, junk, that constantly crashed my computer. Worse than a virus. How have they stayed in business all these years?!?

Quote

NoVaMac wrote:
They're worse than lame.

Aside from the grammar, I agree totally with your post. To watch streaming video or listen to streaming music, real was the only player available for a while and it totally sucked. In fact, many streaming videos (expn.com, cough) still exist in real formats only, and that is a horrible, horrible thing (i jump for joy when i see quicktime instead of or as an option instead of real). I guess that for whatever reason, real was the standard choice in streaming. Why were we such idiots back then?

I just received the following note from the good folks at Public Knowledge:

The problem with commenting on our site was just a bug, and it's fixed
now. PK didn't intend to not allow comments on our Real press
release--we are always happy to receive comments. You can direct your
readers to

http://www.publicknowledge.org/content/press-releases/press_release.2004-08-16.4611152974

Greate site. Thank you

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