Yes!!!

I agree 100%! Everything you say is the sum of my complaints about Apple for the past 2 years. So much so, after nearly 20 years of exclusive Mac use, I would have already changed platform were it not for the fact there are no real options "yet".

One issue you did not mention is Apple's manipulation in what peripherals, upgrades, etc., we are able to get, particularly for the Mac Pro. Now that we have successfully migrated to Intel processors, we should have access to the massive PC market. Yet we don't, if anything the Mac peripheral and add-on market has shrunk making the platform less viable. The "Macintosh" (not talking iPod, iPhone, etc.) has fallen dangerously behind in technology adoption (Blu-Ray, eSATA, etc.), never mind trailblazing the industry other than with "pretty packaging".

If Apple does not correct what you so correctly mention and more, it risks an implosion and even loss of many its core base MacHeads.

Yup, I see this too.


Apple is getting a bit to beholden to the movie companies lately and are starting to cripple what Macs could be and do as a result.

I don't know if the lack of Blu-Ray is to push the movie rentals or because of the overly restrictive requirements of BueRay DRM, but I'd be buying a MacPro now if it had BlueRay (data burning and video playback).

Ironically, the iTunes store was initially only there to sell more iPods, but more and more they are treating it like it's more important than everything else and crippling the hardware to appease the music/movie companies.

I would LOVE to see an APPLE version of this - maybe with the iPhone OS, etc... There are so many people waiting for this - if only Apple would deliver .... I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that this is what we were hoping for at MacWorld...

You are pouring my heart out! And I suspect the hearts of many others.

Please send this article and the inevitable like responses to Apple ASAP.

Apple is surely in a state of flux, the iPhone ( a brand new venture for them) has taken up a lot of their time, Leopard coming out has taken it's toll as well.

But these considerations are starting to wear thin in the shadow of all the sorely needed revs and products we consumers desire.

Thin is nice, but I'll bet 90% of the Macheads out there would happily pay the same or more for a not-so-thin laptop with less sacrifices...

on and on and on...

but I don't understand what kind of desktop needs aren't met somewhere in the product line - from MacMini to iMac to Mac Pro - and a MacBook Pro makes a pretty good desktop machine too...

When Apple had a 1% market share the only people who bought their product were those who already liked them. Now people who think they will like the product also buy them and perhaps their needs are different than the old aficionados like us. Hence, our needs seemed to be ignored. However, this is better than Apple having gone belly up and we being left in a world of Vista Home Basic with Dell Support.

They can ignore me all they like if they keep making sensible, solid products that do work.

Nah, not really....

You're presenting the expert's view and the needs of maybe some hundred thousand Apple customers, but we're talking about 5 million Leopard users (and 20 million Tiger users and I don't know how many million iPod owners with some version of Windows ). All these complaints and wishes may be justified in a way but they don't concern the vast majority of Apple customers at all.
Sure, bugs should be avoided, developers should make money, notebooks should be faster and so on.... But considering my father-in-law (and probably many many others), who bought his first personal computer at the age of 75 (an iMac), all this is just irrelevant.

this isn't a trend for Apple, it's the way they've always been. Apple has rarely shown interest in meeting consumer's needs and cravings - they've always designed what *they* envision as the best gadgets and machines, not the public's. And more often than not they've been mostly right.

Buying an Apple device has always meant limitations, but even with those limitations their devices are still among the best you can find. Leave the platform for a Blu-Ray drive if you desire, but don't hold your breath waiting on Apple to provide one. Same goes for a gaming machine,, a tablet, a media server, a mid-sized tower, etc., etc.

Buy an Apple device for what it is and enjoy it for what it is. There's plenty of good in what you get, even some great, but rarely is there something for everyone.

You're kidding right?

You at least partially blame the delay of Leopard on Apple's media partners? Where does that come from? I understand the comment about Apple's "internal constraints" and would lay all the blame there. However, as has been observed and discussed many times in the past, simply throwing more programmers at a project does not typically speed up output. You need look no farther than Microsoft to see this in action.

As for the bugs and the lack of developer time with Leopard, that too has nothing to do with Apple's media partners. That is Apple simply being Apple and limiting the number of testers to minimize possible leaks.

As for the hardware you want released, there are reasons they have not been. The LED (I assume you mean OLED?) screens are in short supply and as a result, are more expensive. Were Apple to release them it would bring a higher price and more complaints.

A called mid-tower Mac has probably not been released because Apple sees no upside in such a machine. It would likely cannibalize sales of Mac Pros without increasing the number of Macs sold. Now, you can disagree with them but I would bet they know more about their market than you do.

As for the immense and removable HD drives, firewire works great. Why build the cost into a machine that may not need it.

Pennryn machines will no doubt come eventually, but the chips were only recently released. Do you think Apple should should announce day and date with Intel? If for no other reason, that would ruin any surprise on Apple's part. It would also probably increase the chances of problems because Apple might not have enough time to properly test them.

Apple has not yet released a 3G phone for reasons that we are all well aware of. Battery life is very important. Chips are getting better but Apple has to develop and test any 3G phone(s) before release.

And finally, if you really want a tablet Mac, one was shown at Macworld (I can't remember the name). Apple probably doesn't see much market here either. And since another company has done all the development work I'm sure Apple is quite happy to let them be a guinea pig.

As you said in your post, Apple has a coherent vision and I think they are doing a great job at that. Microsoft has tried to be an everything and anything company. Apple has avoided that with good reason. You lose you focus and your products suffer. As Apple has demonstrated in the last few years, if you focus and endeavor to release only excellent products, the market will respond.

Kevin

Quote

Guest wrote:
but I don't understand what kind of desktop needs aren't met somewhere in the product line - from MacMini to iMac to Mac Pro - and a MacBook Pro makes a pretty good desktop machine too...

Well, first of all, let's just rule out the iMac. As an all-in-one, it should be considered in a class of its own. Frankly, I'm never buying another all-in-one — one part of it will always fail or become obsolete before the rest, leaving me to spend money replacing the parts I don't want to replace. They're a pain to service, as well. As someone who is not scared by cables, all-in-ones really offer me nothing but downsides.

That leaves us with two options: the Mac Mini, which is just about as weak as desktops come and completely non-upgradeable except for a little RAM flexibility; and the Mac Pro, which is terribly over-powered for most users and has a price to match. There's a HUGE gap between them.

When the Mac Mini was first introduced, its specs were comparable to the iMac (and eMac). Unfortunately, Apple's product lines have not evolved together over the years, and the lineup is not as coherent as it once was (and even back then there was plenty of room for improvement). The fact that the all-in-one iMac is now being forced to fill the gap between the two headless models is a problem. The iMac was not made for that role, and it's not suited for it.

Right now, Apple doesn't sell any machines that suit me very well. What I really want is a minitower. Something reasonably expandable (at least with the option of a decent GPU). Like a Mac Pro, but not so heavy-duty. Power-wise, it should be more or less in line with the iMacs. The Mac Mini could then be trimmed down to get the price back down to $500 or less. (Or they could give the minitower enough of a range that the cheapest config would be less than a Mini. That would be excellent.)

You are telling me that because you didn't get what you want that Apple is falling behind customer needs. Lets see...Apple took to long to finish Leopard but of course that negates the fact that they had just done a re-written 10.4 to Intel and had to do the whole Intel transition. What about the products and services they have been delivering year after year.

iPhone and iPod Touch are new computer platforms and will bring in even more new Mac users. And yes I needed an iPhone so they met my customer needs. How about the needs of other people who were hoping and praying for the iPhone and iPod touch? It seems that the Mac web is now all about how Apple does not bring all things to all people.

Below is a list of products and services (I'm sure I missed some) that Apple released in 2007 and 2008. (Note customers requested many of them I’m sure):

MacBook Air
Time Capsule
Apple Enhances Revolutionary iPhone with Software Update
Major Software Upgrade for iPod touch
Apple Premieres iTunes Movie Rentals With All Major Film Studios
Apple Introduces New Apple TV Software & Lowers Price to $229
20th Century Fox & Apple Introduce iTunes Digital Copy
Apple to Standardize iTunes Music Prices Throughout Europe
Apple Introduces New Mac Pro
Apple Introduces New Xserve—Most Powerful Apple Server Ever
Apple Announces Hit Television Programming Now Available on the iTunes Store in Canada
The Apple Store West 14th Street to Open on Friday, December 7
Apple Releases Final Cut Express 4
Apple Sells Two Million Copies of Mac OS X Leopard in First Weekend
Led Zeppelin Digital Box Set Available for Pre-Order Exclusively on the iTunes Store
Apple Chooses Orange as Exclusive Carrier for iPhone in France
Apple and T-Mobile Announce Exclusive Partnership for iPhone in Germany
Apple Chooses O2 as Exclusive Carrier for iPhone in UK
Apple Unveils Logic Studio
Apple Introduces All New iPod nano
Apple Introduces New iPod classic
Apple Unveils iPod touch
Apple Unveils the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store
Apple and Starbucks Announce Music Partnership
Apple Announces Hit Television Programming Now Available on the iTunes Store in the UK
John Lennon Solo Catalog Debuts on iTunes Store
Apple Unveils New iMac
Apple Introduces iLife ’08
Apple Enhances .Mac
Apple Introduces iWork ’08
Microsoft and Apple Extend Font Licensing Agreement
iPhone Premieres This Friday Night at Apple Retail Stores
YouTube Live on Apple TV Today; Coming to iPhone on June 29
Safari for Windows Public Beta Downloads Top 1 Million in First 48 Hours
Apple Introduces Safari for Windows
iPhone to Support Third-Party Web 2.0 Applications
Warner Music Japan Catalog Now Available on the iTunes Store in Japan
Apple Updates MacBook Pro
YouTube Coming to Apple TV
Apple Announces iTunes U on the iTunes Store
iTunes Offers Exclusive Pre-Order of New Paul McCartney Album “Memory Almost Full”
Apple Updates Popular MacBook
Apple Unveils Final Cut Studio 2
Apple Introduces Final Cut Server
Award-Winning MGM Films Now on the iTunes Store
Apple Unveils Higher Quality DRM-Free Music on the iTunes Store
Apple to Offer Major League Baseball Video Highlights on the iTunes Store
iTunes Introduces Complete My Album
Apple TV Now Shipping
Lionsgate Movies Now on iTunes
iPod shuffle Now Available in Five Brilliant Colors
Apple Introduces New AirPort Extreme with 802.11n

When will people realize that there is no way Apple can please all of you all the time.

Is Apple really falling behind their customers NEEDS? Do you really NEED the Mac OS update released faster than it was released? Was 10.4 that bad you could not wait a little longer for the update. Maybe 5 years between OS is quicker and you should jump ship to the other OS Company. Oh I forgot if Apple releases a new OS every year then we get all the complaints that the Apple OS is an Apple TAX because the OS is released so often that people have to pay each year if they want the new features that are just eye candy anyway. Come on Apple does what every company tries to do get the product out the door as fast as possible. Sometimes it takes longer if they have other ambitious projects on the table as well.

Oh and I am sorry that the Apple TV almost died before the update. Maybe they were working on the new 10.5 OS and it was not ready. Come on people get a grip are they really not giving you want you NEED or is it you just are all greedy and want MORE. If they are so bad why don't you all buy whatever is better instead. That’s how you get what you NEED it’s a free market. But hey no worries I like freedom of speech keep complaining about what they did not give you that you NEED.

Quote

Guest wrote:
You're kidding right?

You at least partially blame the delay of Leopard on Apple's media partners? Where does that come from?
...
As for the bugs and the lack of developer time with Leopard, that too has nothing to do with Apple's media partners. That is Apple simply being Apple and limiting the number of testers to minimize possible leaks.

As he stated in the article, "There's more. QA testers and coders for Leopard were cannibalized for iPhone." This is true; Apple admitted as much in the press release announcing Leopard's delay until October. The idea that Apple under-tested it to avoid leaks is silly when you consider that betas were released to developers just like normal.

Grow up, other than write dumb blogs, have you ever tried to actually make anything? It is damn hard to create software and devices that actually work. What is it about Apple that it seems to attract all the whiney spoiled brats in the universe?
I'm an Apple customer, and have been since 1987. Except for a crappy power PC 7200 ( pre Jobs return) I have loved every Mac that I have owned. I make money with my machines, and can do quality work.
I think that Apple has been so remarkable in its inventiveness as well as its business performance these last few years, that some people stupidly think that they are magicians. They are not, they are just a bunch of engineers and business people. And right now I think that they are the very best at what they do.
They meet my needs.

Apple still has their finger on the pulse. Nearly everything you mention is not even in the vernacular for the majority of Apple customers or potential customers. Just try explaining to someone what an LED backlight or Penryn processor is and what exactly is will do for them.

Every single Mac, down the the mini, will do everything an AVERAGE home user will need to do, including video. My wife run AutoCAD for her Architecture firm on her MacBook (not Pro) without ever noticing a slow dow. In fact, it seems speedier to her (andher colleagues) than the brand new Dell on the desk next to her.

Form factor, total design, and experience is what really matters and Apple has everyone beat, hand-down.

Quote

Mikuro wrote:

Quote

Guest wrote:
You're kidding right?

You at least partially blame the delay of Leopard on Apple's media partners? Where does that come from?
...
As for the bugs and the lack of developer time with Leopard, that too has nothing to do with Apple's media partners. That is Apple simply being Apple and limiting the number of testers to minimize possible leaks.

As he stated in the article, "There's more. QA testers and coders for Leopard were cannibalized for iPhone." This is true; Apple admitted as much in the press release announcing Leopard's delay until October. The idea that Apple under-tested it to avoid leaks is silly when you consider that betas were released to developers just like normal.

I don't disagree, as you both said, Apple stated that it had pulled people from Leopard to finish the iPhone. I was simply pointing out that hiring more programmers to avoid having to do so would have likely not made any difference. However, I do disagree with his main point that Apple's media partners had anything to do with Leopard's delay.

Kevin

I'll stand up for John here. I knew him when he worked in Tennessee for DOE on R&D projects. I know his experience is much more than you can imagine. John's not a whiny brat - he's someone who likes Apple and wants it to be a better company. He's sharing his opinion as someone who has worked at Apple. Read his bio.

Apple's good but they're not perfect. Criticism and keeping them on their toes only makes them better.

Quote

Guest wrote:
Grow up, other than write dumb blogs, have you ever tried to actually make anything? It is damn hard to create software and devices that actually work. What is it about Apple that it seems to attract all the whiney spoiled brats in the universe?
I'm an Apple customer, and have been since 1987. Except for a crappy power PC 7200 ( pre Jobs return) I have loved every Mac that I have owned. I make money with my machines, and can do quality work.
I think that Apple has been so remarkable in its inventiveness as well as its business performance these last few years, that some people stupidly think that they are magicians. They are not, they are just a bunch of engineers and business people. And right now I think that they are the very best at what they do.
They meet my needs.

If note book computers are the defacto standard, and the MacBook Pro, Apple's flagship notebook, why haven't cutting edge components like 17"LED screens, BluRay burners,HDMI connectors, huge hard drives been announced in Jan? Why are we kept in the dark on pending releases like the G3 iPhone?

Quote

azymuth wrote:
Nah, not really....

You're presenting the expert's view and the needs of maybe some hundred thousand Apple customers, but we're talking about 5 million Leopard users (and 20 million Tiger users and I don't know how many million iPod owners with some version of Windows ). All these complaints and wishes may be justified in a way but they don't concern the vast majority of Apple customers at all.
Sure, bugs should be avoided, developers should make money, notebooks should be faster and so on.... But considering my father-in-law (and probably many many others), who bought his first personal computer at the age of 75 (an iMac), all this is just irrelevant.

They introduced an entirely new form factor this year that is only going to appeal to a tiny fraction of those 25 million Mac users. Bringing out a mini-tower would arguably satisfy a larger group. Both would also attract new money: switchers who are used to towers and the old-school Mac users who can't find anything in the current lineup and therefore are still running souped up G4 and G5 towers.

Why do we care more about Apple than they do about us? I don't know. I guess we're just a bit crazy. What's brought all this to the surface has been the move from PowerPC to Intel. Normally we can count on a steady flow of used pro machines, but the shift has left us a whole generation behind and the 17 month delay in upgrading the Mac Pro has meant the used MacIntel tower market is non-existent. We're starving for new equipment and most if not all of us would purchase a brand new Mac mini-tower if one existed. Apple has squandered an amazing opportunity to not only bring in some new revenue, but to repatriate long time Mac users who've never purchased anything from an Apple Store because the last time we bought new equipment such stores didn't even exist.

A word seen much lately in the last few years comes to mind; hubris. From the OS X Dictionary widget: "excessive pride or self-confidence. •(in Greek tragedy) excessive pride towards or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis." Nemesis - the inescapable agent of something's downfall.

The iPod has been a tremendous, unexpected success. Floppy disks were flawed and destined for obsolescence. Congratulations to Apple and Steve Jobs for their foresight concerning both.

Those successes weren't the result of their foresight, however. They were the result of enrolling others into their vision. Enrolling doesn't occur with force, demands or manipulation. Dictating what you "need" (whether you like it or not) is not enrolling, it is Dictatorship. To date, all dictators have failed, hoisted on the petard of their own arrogance and ego.

Apple and Steve Jobs might consider the perceived, arrogant path they are on and return to listening to what their supporters want. The supporters with cash that made the Mac and iPod a success, that led to other people and the media noticing what great products they had to offer.

I agree,
I am wanting to buy a new Mac Pro as a step up from my Mac Book Pro as I do not want the all in one option of the I Mac. I too am waiting on new cinema displays and as a frequent i chat user I am praying on some option for an i sight camera. Why Apple continues to let down its Mac Pro and Mac Mini users with an option for an i sight camera is beyond belief.

Whoa ... well ... that touched a nerve, John.

I agree with just about everything here, in both the editorial and the responses. Correctness takes many forms in such a debate and largely depends on your point of view.

I would just like to remind readers that Jobs pointed out at the end of the Macworld keynote that there are still 50 weeks left in the year.

I'm hoping that that cryptic sign-off means many of the hardware solutions John is talking about will see the lgiht of day - or at least some of them.

I'd also remind TMOers that Apple's product release strategy has changed. A lot. Apple has found itself right in the media spotlight, thanks largely to the iPod and iTunes Store.

It needs to maintain that focus or risk losing its "darling" status, or whatever you want to call the overwhelmingly flattering press the company gets.

To achieve that, you don't stockpile or otherwise reserve product anouncements for a single calendar event. You string them out a bit, so that busy journalists, whose attention needs to be prodded in order to pull focus, don't forget that you are the company with a constant flow of product; that you are the company that deserves to occupy column space.

I wonder if John isn't clinging too hard to some outdated branding strategy. But yes, I agree that Apple does need to be addressing customers' needs with more hardware choices, or at least offering broader BTO options.

If Aperture is any indication, there is a lack of focus in some areas at Apple. But, if any company has released as many great products in 2007, please tell me who! Apple may be a little overextended, but then, we all go through those times, particularly when evolving a business at such a rapid pace.

Give 'em a break. Give 'em a year. Then start complaining.

"In a strong economic climate, Apple has been able to dictate its vision and sell customers on the constraints imposed on them by Hollywood. We get that. However, it may be shrewd of Apple to also start thinking about giving customers what they crave and need instead of forcing them into a corner."

"Dictate it's vision"? What dictate. They HAVE a vision and it's better than any one else out there.

"constraints.... Hollywood"... Such as DRM? Hey, .99 a song is pretty cheap, even with DRM. Working with Hollywood and reselling all of their content, is a balancing act, customer + hollywood + apple, all must work together... Apple can not dictate to the customer or to Hollywood. Get real.

I am amazed at the people who cannot see the glaring hole in Apple's computer lineup. As I have said before and as Mikuro and Bregalad have said much more eloquently, the current Mac computers do not suit my needs. I am not a Pro, I need more than an entry level computer (macmini) and absolutely do not want an all-in-one (iMac). I think they're great machines, but I have an Apple cinema display that I like very much, thank you, and would like to keep it (please don't tell me to get an iMac and use dual screens; I don't have room for that in my set up). Saying a mid level tower would take away sales from MacPros and iMacs is like saying General Motors shouldn't make an Impala because it would take away from their Malibu and Cadillac sales. Give me a break!
Others rationalize that Apple is all knowing and must know there's not a large enough market for a mid range tower. Uhhh, did you just see the new Macbook Air? Beautiful machine. Limited market.
Don't even get me started on BlueRay. I also would probably go ahead and pony up for the high dollar MacPro if it offered an HD disc burner. I need an easy to use, durable backup medium that can be used for off site storage of critical data. I don't care if it plays movies or not, but to be able to store 50 to eventually 100Gb or more of data on a single disc would be fantastic.
I am an Apple fan, have always had only Apple computers, but these dudes who get so hot if you suggest that Apple isn't anything but perfect give Apple and their fans a bad name.

Well, I think Apple's number 1 priority needs to be to bring back OpenDoc. And maybe QuickDraw GX while they're at it.

I'd wager Apple hasn't made a low-end tower for a while because those are precisely the models that don't get replaced by users as often. Someone who buys in at the low end is not going to replace their machine in three years: they're going buy faster (and secondary) hard drives, faster graphic cards, add RAM and (when they were available) drop-in processor upgrades - none of which would come from Apple. I'd wager that while low-end towers may not have been the lowest profit margin items in the product line-up, the folks who bought low-end towers were among the least profitable customers Apple had. Nowadays, Apple fills most of those customer's needs with the iMacs, which are probably more powerful (and more profitable) than machines most of those customers actually would have otherwise bought. A lot of the old low-end tower market has also moved to desktop-replacement portables like the MacBook - not enough power to compete with the high end machines, but as strong as a low-end tower ever was. I'd like a low-end tower, myself. A slightly beefier, upgradeable Mac Mini would be my idea of heaven. I think there's a place for one. But then I'm looking for bargains. As long as Apple's healthy, I'm not their preferred market. If they were bending over backwards to please types like me, I wouldn't want to own their stock, because they'd be leaving money on the table.

Although it is a few months ago, I am still smarting about the new iMac's no longer having matte screens -- i.e. we're forced to take glossy screens only. C'mon Apple. Give us choice over such fundamental issues that affect the use of the computers. If it was a little feature, like a translucent menu bar, well, that's no big deal. But getting rid of matte screens was sheer arrogance.

Been a Mac user since IIci days, been thru 2 towers and 4 laptops, currently a new MacBook. Own a goodly chunk of APPL stock, which I'll keep, thank you, despite recent market.

Each time I get a new Mac, I'm delighted.

Thank you, Steve & Co. for all you've done and are doing. Even if you mess up once in a while, the balance is so far on the positive side, I'd not have much to say to you other than, "Learn from experience, and keep up the great work."

I do wish they would allow a bit more flexibility with regard to BTO's. Or even in the design of their hardware to allow aftermarket mods. It would be great to upgrade the GPU in my iMac or easily allow the upgrade of my HD in my iMac. Both of which are possible, the GPU requiring a bit more work- the actual chip sets are available - but power, mount etc.... the HD can be done now, but requires a lot of luck and screw drivers etc... It isn't pretty.

I think that people would be ok with the price of Apple hardware even if they had to purchase aftermarket stuff at a premium - as long as it was offered.

Being so closed reminds me of Apple just before the Apple board tossed SJ out. Very closed and arrogant then too...

That being said, I am a very happy user of Apple products and have had an apple computer since the II days. I even made submarine patrols with a Mac Classic. This, during the era of DOS 6.2 and just before Win3.11. My fellow sub-mates were envious even then - that machine + the apple dot matrix was unmatched in the PC world.

I think Apple's strategy is still framed by their epic failures in the 90s, as the desire to lower component costs and be all things to all people led to a glut of different Macs with a confusing array of different specs.

I still think the "iMobo" is the way to go, if you're techie enough to want an affordable mini-tower Mac you're probably skilled enough to put it together yourself.

$399 for the Mobo (C2D/Quad Core, 4 Ram slots, Dual SLI and 1 PCI, 2 USB and 1 FW400) and Leopard, should still make them a reasonable profit and I'll bet tons of people that would never look at a Mini would be interested in that. It would be pretty competitive with a nice Mobo+Vista Ultimate if you were building a PC in terms of price, honestly.

This might just be my east coast Bias but maybe Apple needs to move some of their design/R&D/etc away from Cupertino, I wonder if being in California, which for better or worse is a culturally unique place, has affected their sense of what their consumer base is.

Of course, I still think the MBA is gonna be a bigger hit than you seem to suppose here also, I was kind of like "huh?" at first but the instant I saw the envelope video I was sold. I just wish I could get one now, has to wait until I have cash, but if they had caught me in an upgrade cycle I'd already have it ordered.

Oh and I can't speak for its general sales, but my AppleTV that I got the first week they shipped has been a great appliance for me, and at no time did I fear it was nearly dead. The folks at AwkwardTV are still working on hacks for it, the activity there has died down a bit but I think thats mostly because the vast majority of people were going there to work out problems with hacks and most of those have been smoothed out and simplified at this point.

Quote

Bregalad wrote:

Quote

azymuth wrote:
Nah, not really....

You're presenting the expert's view and the needs of maybe some hundred thousand Apple customers, but we're talking about 5 million Leopard users (and 20 million Tiger users and I don't know how many million iPod owners with some version of Windows ). All these complaints and wishes may be justified in a way but they don't concern the vast majority of Apple customers at all.
Sure, bugs should be avoided, developers should make money, notebooks should be faster and so on.... But considering my father-in-law (and probably many many others), who bought his first personal computer at the age of 75 (an iMac), all this is just irrelevant.

They introduced an entirely new form factor this year that is only going to appeal to a tiny fraction of those 25 million Mac users. Bringing out a mini-tower would arguably satisfy a larger group. Both would also attract new money: switchers who are used to towers and the old-school Mac users who can't find anything in the current lineup and therefore are still running souped up G4 and G5 towers.

Why do we care more about Apple than they do about us? I don't know. I guess we're just a bit crazy. What's brought all this to the surface has been the move from PowerPC to Intel. Normally we can count on a steady flow of used pro machines, but the shift has left us a whole generation behind and the 17 month delay in upgrading the Mac Pro has meant the used MacIntel tower market is non-existent. We're starving for new equipment and most if not all of us would purchase a brand new Mac mini-tower if one existed. Apple has squandered an amazing opportunity to not only bring in some new revenue, but to repatriate long time Mac users who've never purchased anything from an Apple Store because the last time we bought new equipment such stores didn't even exist.

Indeed! Well said.

[quote="coaten"]

I would just like to remind readers that Jobs pointed out at the end of the Macworld keynote that there are still 50 weeks left in the year.

I stopped listening to what Mr. Jobs says.

Quote

MonkeyT wrote:
Someone who buys in at the low end is not going to replace their machine in three years: they're going buy faster (and secondary) hard drives, faster graphic cards, add RAM and (when they were available) drop-in processor upgrades - none of which would come from Apple.

You are wrong. I am now forced to wait longer to upgrade due to the heavy investment required to buy a Mac Pro. I could not justify upgrading more often.

There is a huge market for a reasonably priced tower with expandability and upgradability. In fact, I would be one to buy 2 such towers since I could use them. The previous generation Mac Pros were fast when they came out, but they quickly became overpriced and obsolete. Apple chose to keep them that way and at the same (very high price point) for 18 months. The latest Mac Pros are better priced but lack many by now entrenched technologies, such as DDR3, eSATA, Blu-Ray/HD, HDMI and more video card options. The pro-monitors are now over 3 years old and cost hundreds more than other brand with exactly the same specifications.

If Apple intends to expand its market share, it better stay focused on its core and change their modus operandi.

This gaping hole in Apple's lineup smacks of either arrogance or stupidity.

[quote="Voltaic"]

Quote

coaten wrote:


I would just like to remind readers that Jobs pointed out at the end of the Macworld keynote that there are still 50 weeks left in the year.

I stopped listening to what Mr. Jobs says.

You may well choose to do so, it is your perogative. However, it is widely believed, based on industry intel, pundit speculation and a burden of patent applications, that Apple does have a lot of new product in the pipeline.

The iMac does everything I need it to and more.

I think this editorial might be too pessimistic. Rather than look at the MacBook Air as being only for a small percentage of Mac users, look at it instead as the first in a line of coming systems and systems bumps which will cater to the varied people in the growing userbase. Apple will release a mid-range tower when it is good and ready, once it determines it can make money from it. They can't spread themselves thin (a complaint being made here anyway when it comes to OS updates).

I suppose no one remembers the proliferation of Performas and PowerPC desktops in the 90s. In the long run, the many varied models confused people, so only the pros and Mac diehards took the time to sort through it all and get their prized Mac. Release another computer into the line now and I think the same thing is risked: alienating the new folks that have come to the systems precisely because of the simplicity of the line.

Is there a place for the midrange desktop? Probably. But I don't believe the market for one is as big as several here think. If I'm right, then Apple will release one when they feel they have enough money being made to support its development and release to the few people who will want one, just like the MacBook Air now.

Also, they could release one if they feel they can make it significantly different and/or bring something new or bold to the midrange that will make it distinct. But, even then, if they don't think it'll make them money, they just won't do it.

He's talking about LCD monitors with an white LED backlight instead of a lamp, NOT OLED!

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Voltaic wrote:
There is a huge market for a reasonably priced tower with expandability and upgradability. In fact, I would be one to buy 2 such towers since I could use them.

Well, that's a huge market of two, at least. I think you may be extrapolating from your own requirements, rather than being that market aware.

It's quite possible you're correct. But you state it as fact, rather than it being your opinion.

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Voltaic wrote:
If Apple intends to expand its market share, it better stay focused on its core and change their modus operandi.

How can it be focused on its core and change its (not their!) modus operandi? It can't do both at the same time!

Im quite happy to folk out the bucks for a mac pro but why is it that I have to go without an isight camera? No other web cam works with the mac like the isight so their support for UVC compliant cams does not cut it. There is the rumour about the new range of monitors having one but thats been going on for some while. I know that some pro users have no use for an isjght but why does Apple ignore the rest. I think that this is definitely one area where Apple is letting some of its customers down.

I think you make some good points about Apple not polishing Leopard to the standard that we have come to expect, and should continue to expect for the software/OS that we know and love.
I do take issue with the criticisms about "customers waiting for several things, and they are not getting them".
Its just like Leopard;you don't just want any OS, you want the good stuff, the fit and finish that says you can trust the Mac to sweat the small details.
The products you suggest that customers want would require a significant outlay in time and in depth technical expertise to figure out how to make the tablet an itablet, how to make the the xMac fit into the corporate strategy, not just of selling more macs, but on selling more macs with a profit from every single one.
Apple cannot compete in a commodity market, cannot, will not and should not.
By definition, a commodity market is one in which every component is chosen not for its part in an overall vision, a gestalt in which the sum is more than the pieces, in a commodity market, cheap is all you can hope to have, volume is all you can rely on for sustenance.
You know that Apple cannot survive in such a marketplace.
Any of us could have gone and got a Dell, a Gateway, an Emachine.
They are not bad machines, but they have no chuztpa, no vision. (plus they have cooties)
The Ipod/Itunes/ITMS is on the downslope, such a juxtaposition, a license to print money will not come again.
Apple to compete has to think profit, they have to think how they can take a development and make it theirs in a signature and even spectacular way.
((((reverb)))))) Iphone (((((reverb))))))
They compete on Mindshare, its a cliche, I know...but it has worked to grow the brand and to make Apple profitable again, beyond its wildest dreams.
I don't think Apple can make money with a machine between the Imac and the MacPro, I don't think an led backlit display is enough of a leap for a new monitor.
I know Apple has a lot at stake with a 3G Iphone, but I trust they will unveil it when they know it will blow the socks off every doubter. Plus they cannot really release a 3G iphone until ATT can give 3G Nationwide, the network is not there yet. Giving a 3G iPhone to Europe first is a bit of a gamble, especially since that market really has a different dynamic between phones and plans, than does the US. The US market favors Apple in partnership with ATT.
I do think we will see a tablet/touch device similar to the Nokia Tablets, which we will use in the home to control media devices, surf the web, check email, monitor the home network, even do simple photo edits. But it ain't ready yet.
I can wait.
I know its hard John, but trust them on this one, and keep holding them to high standards, that is only what they expect.

I have often thought that as Apple gets bigger and gains market share, they will turn into MicroSoft. Your article may just highlight how that will happen...

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coaten wrote:
Whoa ... well ... that touched a nerve, John.

I agree with just about everything here, in both the editorial and the responses. Correctness takes many forms in such a debate and largely depends on your point of view....

...I wonder if John isn't clinging too hard to some outdated branding strategy. But yes, I agree that Apple does need to be addressing customers' needs with more hardware choices, or at least offering broader BTO options.

I second coaten's post. The whole thing, not just what I quoted above.

As for a mid-range tower, I think the time is right. It seems like Apple doesn't even want to sell the MacPros anymore. Do people really desire 8 core machines? Does Apple think anyone will pay ridiculous upgrade prices ($550 to add a 1TB hard drive... When a 1TB time capsule costs $499)? The MacPros are now almost too powerful to justify using in the place of previous G5's. Unfortunately, the iMacs are just a little bit underpowered (or under-optioned) to fill that role. It almost seems that Apple is making room for a new product....

The tower appeals to a to a small subset of consumers and stay in that subsets basement.

The Air is the latest it gadget that is going to be successful because of its looks.

90% of users dont care about everything that is being complained about here. The whole idea of cloud computing ring any bells? Most people want a computer to organize there pictures and music (maybe movies), surf the web and send email.

they dont know or want to know how to upgrade HDD's, RAM, processors, etc. This is why they came to apple and why apple's market share has more than doubled in the last couple of years.

If they did not release the product you wanted, then buy something else. If you feel that there strategy is detrimental to the core business, then by all means quantify they cash flows they are giving up or losing by not having the products you wish for.

I find it interesting in one breath people are complaining about the business growing to fast (hence the leopard complaints) and in another asking for new towers and monitors and I dont know what else.

As I shareholder the hardware focus needs to be on the notebooks first, iphone, ipod and then desktop. Everything else is of marginal utility.

The Video and still digital imaging industry needs those machines. Crunching a DVD or working with a 1-200 M panorama photo in Photoshop can't have enough power. That does make it a box for the creatives and not the consumer. Then again how about places like Pixar and other similar who need that power.

This said,there is a place for the mini-tower with some expandability. What I'd like is a small form factor with a chassis built-in that would support removable HD carriers say on the side or even in the front. You could have multiple drives which could be swapped as needed over and above the internal HD.

For those carping about Blu-Ray...HD is still out there and while the scales now seem tipped in favor of Blu-Ray, there is no clear winner. When there is, I think Apple will follow. For the moment though, they're tuned into the Apple TV and downloading video and movies. High Def Disk will appear when that market is stable and running like the music CD thing did when the ITMS first appeared.

Apple is still about making great products that mortals can use, but with the move towards the digital convergence and media, they're about making profit which isn't necesarily a dirty word.

FWIW as long as you are willing to put up with the HUGE Mac Pro case, you can BTO one with 2GbRAM and a single Quad processor for $2299. It's not sub-$2k as some would like but it is a very good system with huge amounts of expandability down the road.

For those of you that think the market for a mid range to upper end consumer tower is too small, I suggest you wander through the aisles at Fry's, Best Buy, etc. Please note that yes indeed other OEMs besides Apple offer AIO consumer machines, what % do you see on the shelves? For better or worse, AIO caters to the needs of a niche market, which is fine, I own an iMac G5 iSight.

For those of you hoping for a mid range to upper end consumer tower, give it up. Apple does not want your business, ever, Steve Jobs stated as much when he said it is an AIO world. If you want to remain an Apple customer you will have to make concessions with what you want and what Apple offers. Apple doesn't care either way, desktop sales are up. In fact this last quarter desktop sales were up at a higher % than laptops, only reinforcing Apple's strategy.

Me, I want a mid range tower but will continue to buy Apple because of the OS. I don't necessarily like this one aspect of Apple, but oh well.

But Apple doesn't offer me what I want. I've been a Mac user since my 512k "fat Mac" (which I still have and it still works).

I also want an "xMac" and would pay what they charge for am iMac for it. I'd also buy a 23" Cinema Display to go with it and then buy Aperture and Final Cut Studio to run on it.

That's around $4000 that I'd be willing to drop into Apples coffers that is only held up by them not offering a desktop system I'd be willing to buy. An iMac is unacceptable to me, as it must be to anyone beyond consumer newbees.

"Let them eat cake" is not good enough for me, I don't need a MacPro, and will soon build my own 'hackintosh" if Apple doesn't address this long time Mac users needs.

Once I go that route I might as well P2P the software I need for it as well. Apple must serve the needs of their long term customers or lose them.

I would like to know the name of a company besides Apple that provides somewhat the same quality Hardware with seamless integration to an operating system as reliable as OS X. I would like to know what other company is out there that gives computer users and electronic consumers the choices Apple offers. Apple is not about perfect products their first day out in the wild. They give you the best choice and through customer feed back they make it better. It has been like this for a long time. No other company has this record. Apple is broadening its products due to consumer demand. I am not an Apple evangelist, I am just a consumer that is appreciative of Apple's choices when it comes to my computer needs, music preference and entertainment likings. It would be great for the consumers to have more choices. More choices mean better products.
Thank you for your time.

The next big breakthrough for Apple would be to actually listen to customers and MEET their needs! But it has not been the way with Apple ever since Apple II days (I still have mine!). I have a friend who will not buy an iPhone because he doesn't consider it a serious business tool since it does not sync to Outlook, and MUST have a replaceable battery. Apple just didn't listen & learn from the flak over this or they would not have come out with the MacBook Air with a non-replaceable the battery.

People want a mid-tower between the iMac and Pro? Give it to them! It is a good business decision. People want matt screens? Give it to them! People want iSight for Pro? Give it to 'em. People want BluRay? Give...

You don't have to compromise what Apple is all about by doing these things. Many are just customer-desired adjustments to existing products. The first rule of business is give customers what they want. Guaranteed with more customer-driven products, Apple's sales and profit would rise even more.