What do you expect? Gamers only care about machines with transparent side panels, neon lights, and ninja decals. Duh.

While I see your point, fellow guest, it is not the lack of neon that keeps extreme gamers from the mac.

These are people who won't blink when turning $2000 and more into the latest screaming video card.

Those who will happily mod their refridgerator to overclock their smoking AMD processors.

Neon is just the icing of the cake.

They will tell you that a simularly equipped PC is cheaper than a mac, but that's not the point. What they don't tell is that they spend and spend and spend to be able to get a frame rate increase of 2%. And you have to give it to them, if you'd spend that money on a mac, you'd hit the ceiling pretty quickly.

Different universes.

"they spend and spend and spend to be able to get a frame rate increase of 2%."

And those same PC weenies call Mac users delusional for spending more money on our systems. LOL!

Besides anything over 30fps is a waste that the human eye cannot detect.

that's not true about 30fps, which is one reason that 720p HDTV is broadcast at 60fps.

Wasn't thinking of upgrading but if this will handle Oblivion...hmmmmmm.

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randyharris wrote:
that's not true about 30fps, which is one reason that 720p HDTV is broadcast at 60fps.

Dumb-@ss for motion pictures and the like (not games) i'm almost positive above 30 fps is a waste the only reason that for games the more fps the better is because the game is actually happening hence no "in-between" frames that are in movies and tv, and for the rest out there if your picking up stutter at 60 fps your eyes are really responsive, don't complain. But honestly you don't need 60 fps for tv thats a waste of bandwidth and someone should complain to the FCC.

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Guest wrote:

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randyharris wrote:
that's not true about 30fps, which is one reason that 720p HDTV is broadcast at 60fps.

Dumb-@ss for motion pictures and the like (not games) i'm almost positive above 30 fps is a waste the only reason that for games the more fps the better is because the game is actually happening hence no "in-between" frames that are in movies and tv, and for the rest out there if your picking up stutter at 60 fps your eyes are really responsive, don't complain. But honestly you don't need 60 fps for tv thats a waste of bandwidth and someone should complain to the FCC.

Hmmm... let's see... who should we go with on this one... Guest or the FCC? Hmmm... sorry guest, I'm gonna have to go with the FCC. But I'm sure you're a real 5m@rty-p@nt$ too, though.

Off-topic, but here goes:

Conventional wisdom is that the eye can't discern more than 30fps. Movies are 24fps, most interlaced TV is actually 30fps (60 fields per second, but two fields at a time). 720p does have a 60fps spec, but 1080 is 30 at the highest spec. 720 also has 24 and 30fps specs.

Captured video includes an amount of blur, which results in more fluid movement. Without the blur, motion can seem unnatural (we see it in nature). Most games don't include blur, so they look more natural at higher frame rates (we see two framess at once, simulating blur).

We all vary in our makeup, so there are bound to be people that are more sensitive to framerates than others. However, I think it's correct to say that for most of us, the eye cannot truly detect rates above 30fps.

When I go to the movies, I really notice the low framerates on such large screens. It always bothers me.

I want to clarify that I don't ridiculize the max gaming crowd. If you spend an inappropriate time on any type of hobby or sport you spend more than average on it.

And in that case you more than likely ARE able to enjoy the added frame rate. In any case, I focussed on the frame rate, but it is the combination of a lot of factors that make that 2% worthwile to the maniac gamer. Better shading, lighting, frame rate, resulting in less drops, bigger resolution support etc etc. It all adds up to a better gaming experience.

Like a photographer who wouldn't think twice to buy a +$3000 scanner. Where most people don't even see the difference between the results of that one and a $500 scanner. Or even have the capacity to make a difference with the pro equipment. Indeed are more likely to get worse results, just like the average user won't get the best out of such a maniac rig or might even damage his/her computer trying to do all those upgrades.

Not saying we should take gamers seriously, but we're all guilty of overspending on the areas that excite us the most.

Our use of macs being a case in point... Sure you can get by with windows. It's just that most mac users care about their experience more than the average windows user. Whether that's justified or not is all in the eye of the beholder.

BTW the photographer analogy not by accident. My brother is a photographer and he can snub people worse than the most obnoxious "XP on my mac? NEVER, I have PRINCIPLES' zealot.

Video frame rates in the 50-60 range are called "High motion", and are critical for sports.

A few years ago, FOX experimented with some EDTV that was supposed to improve sharpness in football games by scanning both video fields simultaneously. A side effect that the image rate dropped to 30 from the usual 60 fields per second of US TV. Even though the picture was sharper, everyone hated it because as soon as the players started moving, everything became a blur.

"Conventional wisdom is that the eye can't discern more than 30fps."

Why is that called "conventional wisdom" when it's totally and utterly wrong?

Where are you people getting this from? The difference between 30fps and 60fps is incredible. (After 60, there are diminishing returns, IMO, but a lot of people would argue with me even on that.) 60fps is really the bare minimum any PC gamer would accept. With gaming freaks, it's more a matter of 60fps vs 100+fps, or something like that.

I watch a lot movies at 60fps. Going back to DVDs and the like, it all looks very choppy. Again, the difference is huge.

Also, when it comes to games, high FPS is not all about fluidity — it's about responsiveness. Even if your monitor was only capable of displaying 30 images per second, you'd want your game to run at the higher frame rate, because that would mean each frame you see would be more up to date. In high-response games, 30 milliseconds can make all the difference in the world. This is why the gaming nuts will try to increase their frame rates even beyond what any normal monitor can display or even what their computer will try to output.

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Mikuro wrote:
With gaming freaks, it's more a matter of 60fps vs 100+fps, or something like that.

Uh, yeah. Unless you're a console gaming freak. In which case, you're gaming at either 30 or 60 fps, and are just fine with that.

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Guest wrote:

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Mikuro wrote:
With gaming freaks, it's more a matter of 60fps vs 100+fps, or something like that.

Uh, yeah. Unless you're a console gaming freak. In which case, you're gaming at either 30 or 60 fps, and are just fine with that.

Absolutely. But we're not talking about console gamers here. Console gaming freaks are really entirely different beasts — obviously they're not obsessive about these things, since they have no control over them. Like I said, I think anything over 60fps is pushing it, myself. But I'm mostly a console guy, not a PC gaming maniac.

And yeah, even most console games these days operate at 60fps. When this first became common (I think the first 60fps console game I played was F-Zero X for N64), I certainly noticed the difference — even on a plain ol' TV.

I am a "console gaming freak", and I gotta say, 60 fps works great. No complaints here.

I think PC gamers who worry about 100+ fps are just kidding themselves. If you suck at Quake 4 at 60 fps, you'll still suck at Quake 4 at 120 fps. That extra 8 milliseconds of reaction time (less than 1/100th of a second) you bought yourself with the uber-framerate doesn't really make a difference.

But I guess its a nice comfy security blanket for guys who think that their hardware rig can somehow compensate for their lack of 'skillz', lol.

Oh, and don't console games outsell PC games anyway?