It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Sales of Mac Hardware will skyrocket initially.

But without continued innovation on the OS front, it will erode the MacOS in the long run.

I disagree that it's going to erode the mac in the long run. What this may do is make M$ about business applications and Mac OS about the consumer. many will run M$ apps when they HAVE to, but enjoy the ease of use of Mac OS.

Windows is too established to disappear. Jobs has stated that the OS war isa over-- that means direct competition, one winning over the over. The only alternative is co-existence. But inthis scenario, Apple has planty of room to grow. This is a marathon, not a sprint. All around good for Apple, I believe.

So how happy is Woz right now?

Software developers just hit the juggernaut. Some sales will boom, and some development will cease.

Symantec alone can now sell you TWO copies of their antivirus software.

Microsoft will now sell you TWO copies of Office.

Gamers will now COMPLETELY stop developing Mac games.

I agree with this exactly. When you have to work, you boot into Winblows and do your work. When you want to make movies or photo albums, etc. you boot into Mac OS.

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Guest wrote:
I disagree that it's going to erode the mac in the long run. What this may do is make M$ about business applications and Mac OS about the consumer. many will run M$ apps when they HAVE to, but enjoy the ease of use of Mac OS.

OK, first things first. Before we can talk about Apple gaining market share vs. Windows PCs, Apple must first dominate boot loader market share vs. that hack those guys did a few weeks ago.

In fact, given the nature of Apple's protracted IP battles (e.g. vs. Apple Records), Apple may have an IP issue to deal with before it can claim victory against that hack. If I were the guy that invested $14,000 to have Windows boot on my Intel Mac, I'd be pretty litigious right now. The guy was probably looking at VC funding and quitting his day job to commercialize the invention he paid for.

Once again, Munster and Wu show themselves to be totally ignorant of real world market dynamics. When will you guys learn to evaluate their prognostications a bit more critically?

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Bosco wrote:
OK, first things first. Before we can talk about Apple gaining market share vs. Windows PCs, Apple must first dominate boot loader market share vs. that hack those guys did a few weeks ago.

In fact, given the nature of Apple's protracted IP battles (e.g. vs. Apple Records), Apple may have an IP issue to deal with before it can claim victory against that hack. If I were the guy that invested $14,000 to have Windows boot on my Intel Mac, I'd be pretty litigious right now. The guy was probably looking at VC funding and quitting his day job to commercialize the invention he paid for.

Once again, Munster and Wu show themselves to be totally ignorant of real world market dynamics. When will you guys learn to evaluate their prognostications a bit more critically?

I don't think Apple will have any trouble dominating "boot loader market share." Who wants an elegant solution from Apple when you can have a hack that take hours to set up, doesn't support graphics acceleration and can be broken very easily forcing you to start the process again (check MacWorld.com for a detailed analysis)?!

Secondly it was one guy who put up the prize, it was many interested parties. Sure one guy started it but he only put up $100 and asked others who were interested to follow suit. The procedure for the hack does not belong to that guy either. Get your facts straight.

Finally whilst these analysts forecasts are often rely on unsubstantiated rumour and are rather derivative, the two quoted in the article seem fairly reasonable at least initially.

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Bosco wrote:
OK, first things first. Before we can talk about Apple gaining market share vs. Windows PCs, Apple must first dominate boot loader market share vs. that hack those guys did a few weeks ago.

In fact, given the nature of Apple's protracted IP battles (e.g. vs. Apple Records), Apple may have an IP issue to deal with before it can claim victory against that hack. If I were the guy that invested $14,000 to have Windows boot on my Intel Mac, I'd be pretty litigious right now. The guy was probably looking at VC funding and quitting his day job to commercialize the invention he paid for.

Once again, Munster and Wu show themselves to be totally ignorant of real world market dynamics. When will you guys learn to evaluate their prognostications a bit more critically?

I don't think Apple will have any trouble dominating "boot loader market share." Who wants an elegant solution from Apple when you can have a hack that take hours to set up, doesn't support graphics acceleration and can be broken very easily forcing you to start the process again (check MacWorld.com for a detailed analysis)?!

Secondly it was one guy who put up the prize, it was many interested parties. Sure one guy started it but he only put up $100 and asked others who were interested to follow suit. The procedure for the hack does not belong to that guy either. Get your facts straight.

Finally whilst these analysts forecasts are often rely on unsubstantiated rumour and are rather derivative, the two quoted in the article seem fairly reasonable at least initially.

BTW sorry for the double post. Didn't login the first time.

I am not a lawyer, but I think we'll find that the hackers who initially got this working lost any IP rights when they released the instructions on how to do this. As far as I could tell, they asserted no rights to the process.

If I read the site correctly, it stated that the procedure would be open source and no rights could be claimed once the procedure was posted, the only right was to the money put forward in the challenge. I think that whole idea was brilliant, if anything, it allows us the consumer to see great inovations much sooner. If no solution was found to boot xp via the hack I dont think Apple would have realeased Boot camp today, but would have waited untill 10.5 to announce.

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Guest wrote:
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Sales of Mac Hardware will skyrocket initially.

But without continued innovation on the OS front, it will erode the MacOS in the long run.

You're kidding, right?

Apple is the one innovating on the OS front. Microsoft is still playing catch up.

I wonder if Apple has been working on this for some time, before the hack. if Apple had OSX running on an Intel computer from the first version this Boot Camp may have been around since then and Apple was just waiting for the right time to release it.

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Bosco wrote:
OK, first things first. Before we can talk about Apple gaining market share vs. Windows PCs, Apple must first dominate boot loader market share vs. that hack those guys did a few weeks ago.

In fact, given the nature of Apple's protracted IP battles (e.g. vs. Apple Records), Apple may have an IP issue to deal with before it can claim victory against that hack. If I were the guy that invested $14,000 to have Windows boot on my Intel Mac, I'd be pretty litigious right now. The guy was probably looking at VC funding and quitting his day job to commercialize the invention he paid for.

Once again, Munster and Wu show themselves to be totally ignorant of real world market dynamics. When will you guys learn to evaluate their prognostications a bit more critically?

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Al Swearengen wrote:
I wonder if Apple has been working on this for some time, before the hack. if Apple had OSX running on an Intel computer from the first version this Boot Camp may have been around since then and Apple was just waiting for the right time to release it.

You're quite right. Apple was simply waiting for a hack to materialize before it released Boot Camp. Happy coincidence with the 30th Anniversary. Almost wish it had come out the 1st everyone would have called an April Fool!

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Al Swearengen wrote:
I wonder if Apple has been working on this for some time, before the hack. if Apple had OSX running on an Intel computer from the first version this Boot Camp may have been around since then and Apple was just waiting for the right time to release it.

Nope. Not true. A senior Apple engineer told me the other day that Intel did not give them enough information to boot Windows on the boards they desigend for them. When Apple inquired through official channels, Intel said there were hackers figuring it out and Apple should just ask them. Thank GOD for the hackers. If it wasn't for the hackers and open source, Apple probably wouldn't have been able to get Integer BASIC working on the Apple ][+ back in the day.

>CALL -936
>PRINT "H4X0R5 RU13!!"

Not correct. The apple solution is a totally different solution to the hack.

I´m going to claim that Boot Camp originated from the fact that MS took away EFI support i Vista, which means that Apple really wants to show of OS X besides Windows.
Based on the anatech analysis, I wonder why. Hopefully it doesn´t mean that Apple is dropping OS X

Rejected Names for Boot Camp:

1. Boot Lickr

2. iBoot

3. Bootie Board

4. DOS Boot

5. Bootician

6. BootLife

7. (tie) MacBoot Pro, PowerBoot

8. WootBoot

9. BootVista

10. Boot-les
(legal problems with that one)

(if someone beat me to this, my apologies...)
SW

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Guest wrote:
Not correct. The apple solution is a totally different solution to the hack.

I´m going to claim that Boot Camp originated from the fact that MS took away EFI support i Vista, which means that Apple really wants to show of OS X besides Windows.
Based on the anatech analysis, I wonder why. Hopefully it doesn´t mean that Apple is dropping OS X

Whilst Apple's use of EFI compared to BIOS used by XP and Vista is a positive, the average user doesn't care! Allowing Intel Macs to run Windows placates those who wish to use Windows as well as attracting switchers to the platform who will feel reassured they are still backwards compatible with their existing software. Though of course we all know that having bough a Mac they'll see the light that is OS X and forget about their old Windows apps!

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Guest wrote:
Not correct. The apple solution is a totally different solution to the hack.

I´m going to claim that Boot Camp originated from the fact that MS took away EFI support i Vista, which means that Apple really wants to show of OS X besides Windows.
Based on the anatech analysis, I wonder why. Hopefully it doesn´t mean that Apple is dropping OS X

There's no fear of Apple pulling OS X - it's now the lone technology that separates a Mac from a Windows box (well, that and EFI, but everyone else'll come around--they did with USB et al). If OS X disappeared, Apple would become an over-priced version of everything else.

"It's the OS, stupid" - however any of us feel about this move by Apple, it is not an indication of a purported demise for OS X - Apple's betting switchers will be more prone to compare for themselves. Apple's had an unusually long run of successful gambles lately; I hope they can keep up that streak.

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Bosco wrote:
A senior Apple engineer told me the other day that Intel did not give them enough information to boot Windows on the boards they desigend for them. When Apple inquired through official channels, Intel said there were hackers figuring it out and Apple should just ask them. Thank GOD for the hackers.

A senior Intel engineer told me the other day that Apple was given all the information it needed to make a robust EFI boot loader module for booting XP. Thank GOD for disciplined coders that actually know what they're doing.

I just installed ButtCramp, and I love how when the computer starts up, the left of the screen looks like hell with a stern security warning in all caps, CRT green, and a button on the buttom that says "Boot into Windows". And on the right, it looks like Heaven, complete with blonde Danish women riding around on bicycles, and it has a throbbing Quartz "Play it Safe!" button to launch you into the Mac OS. Apple definitely knows how to do these things right!

It was the best of times. It was the best of times.

I can't wait to see what else is coming in Leopard - WWDC is going to be a hopping place. This release tells me that Apple must be totally confident; having already seen what will be coming in Vista, they are certain Leopard will further distance the Mac from Windows Vista, and that they will not only keep but increase the number of developers for Mac OS X.

Also, at the rate we are getting updates to Tiger, I'm beginning to think Apple will release Leopard before year-end.

Ok so you can boot windows as an os on a separate drive or a partition of your drive so you boot up under windows and some sneaky command line virus trojan worm or whatever scrambles your drive and wipes out not only your windows volume but your mac stuff too. Apples position is if you want to run an os on your mac hardware as crummy as this go ahead but don't blame us when you find our what xp stands for (extra problems). you could boot the BE os on your mac (but why) you could use the terminal to run your mac (with no graphic interface at all) Choice is what its all about. everybody has a right to be wrong.its great that xenophobic crumgrugons will be able to buy some decent hardware.Dells head honchos comment "looks like apple is going to be just another commodity pc maker" is so off the mark that it makes me gag… meantime i have as many shares as i can hold and am waiting for tomorrows market to let this hysteria drive the price ever higher.Theres the rub… a feature that no body in their right mind will use will do more for sales than all the work on OSX or the hardware fit finish and design combined. Now ill be getting calls from my friends about how to fix missing .dll's on their macs Grrrrrrr. and Ps after market last sale was 67.38 up 10.15%

You titled your posting "Major question", then went into a stream of conciousness rant that was very hard to follow. Please go and learn about punctuation, paragraphs and readable phrases and try again. At the very least, please read out what you write before you press the Submit button. It'll help. Really.

Too hard!

... he just couldn't stand the decadence?

ButtCramp???

Now I gotta clean up the coffee that came outta my nose! That hurts, btw!

Good one.

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Intruder wrote:
ButtCramp.

Good one.

I changed IP addresses again. Still have nothing to contribute, though. I do think I am witty, but nobody else does.