"The entry point represents Apple's first sub-$1,000 notebook..."

Actually, the low-end iBooks were also $999 for a couple years before the switch to Intel. Both the MacBook and Intel Mac Mini were more expensive than their PowerPC predecessors when they came out.

Thank you, Mikuro, for pointing that out. I don't understand why these morons keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Every media outlet keeps reporting this as Apple's first forray into the sub $1000 market; except it isn't!! I sent an email to the writers of a wall street journal article, and the writer sent back a response thanking me for the correction; but they didn't actually change the article. So unless the iBook of 1999 broke some kind of psychological threshold I am not aware of, it seems like this notebook won't do much.

And to make the <$1k matter worse, the iBook (one of which I did buy at the time) was a current generation product while the new <$1k MacBook is a previous generation product. Keeping that in mind, the entry level notebook price went from $1000 for the iBook to $1100 for the first MacBook, to $1300 now. And if you want the fastest processor, it will cost you $1600 instead of $1300. Want to connect an external monitor? The adapter is 50% more expensive. Educational discounts have been reduced for students as well.

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Guest wrote:
So unless the iBook of 1999 broke some kind of psychological threshold I am not aware of, it seems like this notebook won't do much.

I can't agree. $1000 is a big threshold for many people. Regardless if whether it is the first sub-$1k Apple notebook or not is not really important. It is below this price point and in the minds of a lot of people I know $1000 somehow seems like a lot more than $999.

People are scared about the economy and not in the mood to spend this holiday season. I hope this will bring in the ?I need a laptop but don?t want to risk spending an arm and a leg on one right now? crowd. I believe Apple will sell a lot of $999 MacBooks. $899 would have been better but $999 is still below the big $1K threshold. Also this is giving Apple a big hit of free advertising. There was all the buzz about a low cost MacBook before the announcement and now it is here and it is pretty good. Apple will have no problem moving these.

My worry is that once we get past Xmas and the back stock of white MacBooks is used up will Apple drop the line and once again not have a low cost entry level laptop. I really hope they keep it around.

"Apple will have no problem moving these" as long as they keep forgetting to mention that the $999 laptop is a repackaged model (with integrated graphics) that is well over a year old. For some reason they seem to be grouping these with the new models so consumers will be partially blinded by the new model's spotlight. I have talked to three people so far who have said (argued) the $999 laptop is a new model but Apple just used the old packaging.

Take a look at the Apple Store. It reads "NEW" "MacBook" "from $999" with the new laptop in the foreground. Inside it states that the $999 model is a new model, rather than a new repackaging of year old parts.

I have $1000 dollars in my pocket right now (that i have been patiently holding on to for 3 months) and had fully expected to spend it yesterday on a new computer. I would have added another $200 if necessary, but as it stands now the entry point computer that includes decent graphics and a firewire port is the iMac. I would have even bought a Mac Mini if they had updated that model with a new graphics processor.

All this sub-$1000 pricing is a moot point! Without a firewire port the new Macbooks are simply useless for anyone importing DV or using the latest storage and backup devices.

The missing firewire port is going to drive folks towards spend MUCH more if they need the port, or purchasing a much less expensive WinPC that has the port.

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Guest wrote:
All this sub-$1000 pricing is a moot point! Without a firewire port the new Macbooks are simply useless for anyone importing DV or using the latest storage and backup devices.

The missing firewire port is going to drive folks towards spend MUCH more if they need the port, or purchasing a much less expensive WinPC that has the port.

Um...no.
I have a backup external disk I bought 9 months ago, it's USB.

More and more DV devices especially those on the consumer end of the spectrum are USB. If you are using Pro equipment you are not likely to be using a consumer MacBook.

Lastly if you need more ports just get a $30 hub that has multiple USB and FW ports. There are a number of them on the market that connect via USB to the computer.

Much the same thing was said when Apple dropped FW from the iPods, or dropped SCSI support or dropped floppies. They are much better than any of us at seeing which direction the market is heading. In this case the handwriting has been on the wall for FireWire for several years.

Ho Hum - looks like a redux of the kaypro 2000. Generic innards with an aluminum case.

There is a simple explanation for the $999 price point. 1) The new MacBook is more valuable than the old model, features, looks etc, so it costs more... but they can't just ditch the old one and start charging people more, that'd be a sh1t storm of bad PR. So they keep the white one and knock a $100 off... This isn't anything, and they know it... $799 would be big, at that point people would start buying themselves 2nd and 3rd laptops... 1 for each of the kids, that sort of thing. BUT, if they DID go that low it would canabilize the sales of their shinny new product. So, in order to raise the base price of the MacBook (and still come across as the good guys) they have to keep the old model up for sale for a bit longer with a reduced price. In comparison though, you'd it seems like a waste to buy the old one when for $300 more you get the shinny new model.

I want one.

@geoduck: A combination Firewire/USB hub is really two hubs, one that connects to a Firewire port on your computer and one that connects to a USB port. There is currently no such thing as a Firewire/USB hub that only connects to a USB port.

I'd also point out that the biggest audience for the Macbook is probably the education market. Students and teachers get the 10% educational discount, so the cost to them of a white Macbook is actually $899.

Is there a FireWire to USB converter? Something that lets us connect a strictly FireWire device to one of the new USB only MacBooks?

I am looking real hard at getting one of the new MacBooks, but haven't ruled out a MacBook Pro because of the FireWire Port.

I have a consumer level Canon Elura 100 Camcorder that has USB and Firewire out, but have never used the USB to transfer video to the Mac. I don't know if the If the USB connection from it is USB 2 or not, the manual doesn't say. That is not a deal breaker, I use the camera for family and some artistic stuff, I could always transfer video to one of the desktop Macs, but it would be nice to use with a new MacBook.

Often times the USB port on video cameras are only used to transfer Still images. You may not be able to transfer the video unless you have firewire.

no one like mac book they all suck minkey balls

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geoduck wrote:

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Guest wrote:
All this sub-$1000 pricing is a moot point! Without a firewire port the new Macbooks are simply useless for anyone importing DV or using the latest storage and backup devices.

The missing firewire port is going to drive folks towards spend MUCH more if they need the port, or purchasing a much less expensive WinPC that has the port.

Um...no.
I have a backup external disk I bought 9 months ago, it's USB.

More and more DV devices especially those on the consumer end of the spectrum are USB.

Um, yes.

Your USB-based external drive is much slower than an equivalent FireWire-based one. It also requires external power, isn't daisy-chainable, and cannot be use universally or reliably for booting.

USB-based video devices use much more video compression than the FireWire-based miniDV devices. Their video quality is thus very poor in comparison. And BTW, are we to throw out all our FireWire-based miniDV camcorders now?

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Much the same thing was said when Apple dropped FW from the iPods, or dropped SCSI support or dropped floppies

When Apple dropped SCSI, FireWire was already available as a superior alternative! When Apple dropped floppies, CDs were already available as a superior alternative! USB is most definitely not a better alternative to FireWire.

This is a very bad move on Apple's part.

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Guest wrote:
Often times the USB port on video cameras are only used to transfer Still images. You may not be able to transfer the video unless you have firewire.

Thanks. I just checked and yes the USB port on this camera is only for transferring still images.

Oh well, my old FireWire docks do not work with my iPhone and new iPod. I have a box out in my garage with some AppleTalk cables and connectors.

Curiously, or not curiously, the white MacBook still has the Firewire port. I think this is akin to when apple dropped the FW800 from the first intel macbook pro--It'll come back in a refresh shortly. My guess is that with the new manufacturing process, they have to fold a large amount of R&D/transition costs to the consumer in these new models, and they probably left FW out of the macbook as a desperate way to reduce the cost of the computer. Except for video uses, FW isn't essential, and although I thought the FW 800 was a good choice when I got a powerbook 5 years ago, I never ended up using it because all the harddrives I've gotten have been USB because they're more common and often cheaper. Look hard if you're going to pass on the aluminium macBook because it lacks FW. Unless you already have FW drives or video cameras, you likely won't need FW or notice the difference in speed.

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Guest wrote:
...although I thought the FW 800 was a good choice when I got a powerbook 5 years ago, I never ended up using it because all the harddrives I've gotten have been USB because they're more common and often cheaper.

When you chose those USB drives, you got what you paid for--lower performance, less flexibility, and lower reliability.

They're not worth it, in my opinion.

In an earlier post I asked about FireWire to USB converters.

I found this cable that is supposed to do that. I don't know if it works or not, but I bet that someone will develop something that does.

It looks like that cable:

Works with camcorders only, not hard drives.
Does not work with macs.
Has problems with dual processor machines, (ie. almost every PC and Mac made today.) and other compatibility problems.

I would not bet that it doesn't work with Macs. I've seen it listed here with reference to their Mac software. Not sure why they would mention Mac software if the cable doesn't work with a Mac.

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deasys wrote:

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geoduck wrote:

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Guest wrote:
All this sub-$1000 pricing is a moot point! Without a firewire port the new Macbooks are simply useless for anyone importing DV or using the latest storage and backup devices.

The missing firewire port is going to drive folks towards spend MUCH more if they need the port, or purchasing a much less expensive WinPC that has the port.

Um...no.
I have a backup external disk I bought 9 months ago, it's USB.

More and more DV devices especially those on the consumer end of the spectrum are USB.

Um, yes.

Your USB-based external drive is much slower than an equivalent FireWire-based one. It also requires external power, isn't daisy-chainable, and cannot be use universally or reliably for booting.

USB-based video devices use much more video compression than the FireWire-based miniDV devices. Their video quality is thus very poor in comparison. And BTW, are we to throw out all our FireWire-based miniDV camcorders now?

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Much the same thing was said when Apple dropped FW from the iPods, or dropped SCSI support or dropped floppies

When Apple dropped SCSI, FireWire was already available as a superior alternative! When Apple dropped floppies, CDs were already available as a superior alternative! USB is most definitely not a better alternative to FireWire.

This is a very bad move on Apple's part.

Your research is in error. The first three iterations of the iMac and the first iteration of the iBook had neither SCSI nor Firewire. They only had USB. So this is not unprecedented.

The cable that is mentioned here works ONLY with Windows XP. Mac and Vista are NOT supported. I was waiting for the new Macbooks, and really need firewire (for my DV and HDV camera's). Now I will either buy the old white model or, much to my regret, spend half of the money for a Windows laptop. Bad move, Apple!