Brightcove Chats with TMO about HTML5

| News

Brightcove’s CEO, Jeremy Allaire, chatted with TMO about their work with HTML5 and some high profile customers. Some of the revelations were real eye-openers about the future of HTML5 vs. Flash.

In a separate press release, covered earlier today at TMO, Brightcove announced that they are officially supporting HTML5 video and working with the New York Times and Time Magazine to support video content for iPad users.

On Friday, I had the opportunity to chat with Brightcove’s CEO, Jeremy Allaire and obtain some additional background. Previously, I had written about the “Technology and Politics of HTML5 vs. Flash,” so I was eager to hear about Brightcove’s initiatives.

 

Jeremy AllaireJeremy Allaire, CEO

For starters, because I had not heard much about the company, I was curious about the affiliation, if any, with Apple. Mr. Allaire assured me that, other than working with Apple as a ordinary developer, there is no other relationship, funding or executive migration between the two companies. The motivation for Brightcove is simply the perceived business opportunity presented by a Flash-free Apple iPhone and iPad.

Curious, I asked if CBS is (or will be) a customer, but Mr Allaire noted that while Brightcove has worked with over 1,300 companies, resulting in over 5,000 Websites, CBS is still planning to roll their own development of HTML5 support for the iPad.

What Brightcove does is to provide a video delivery infrastructure, be it Adobe Flash or HTML5, that Web developers can fold into their Websites. Brightcove doesn’t build the entire Website. Mr. Allaire showed me some slides that describe how more and more companies are depending on a rich video experience that also includes services such as advertising, bandwidth analysis, viewership reporting and so on.

Brightcove 1Emerging Video Services

In terms of comparison to Flash, Mr Allaire noted, “[Adobe] Flash is still a great platform, and we support it, but as the device landscape grows [meaning iPad], there will be a push towards the use of open standards. So HTML5 is simply a business reality for us.”

“In fact, Flash is hardly doomed because the PC world will continue to sustain it. On the Apple Web, however, it will be HTML5.”

Brightcove believes that HTML5 will have technological parity with Flash by the end of 2010 and showed me their Support Roadmap.

 

 

Brightcove 2 Brightcove Support Roadmap

Seeing the timeline, I asked if the roadmap might be out of sync with the needs and expectations of the New York Times and Time with regard to advertising needs. “Not at all,” Mr. Allaire said. “There will be a steady ramp up of iPad sales, and, right now, the initial limitations of HTML5 represent a very small percentage of the market for these companies. So they’re not worried about the timing of the roadmap.” I found that to be an eye-opener. Another issue that will need to be solved, in time, is that there is not yet a universally agreed upon and accepted open source protocol for DRM within HTML5.

Mr. Allaire added that Brightcove’s competitors are diverse and none are as big as Brightcove itself. Comcast has “The Platform” and at the entry level there are several smaller startups like Kit Digital and Altura. Mr. Allaire believes that Brightcove, located in Cambridge, MA, is larger than all its competitors combined.

Throughout the interview, I kept wondering how I had heard of Mr. Allaire before. Then Mr. Allaire mentioned his history and that he was the founder of Allaire, Inc, the developer of the Webserver backend database solution called Cold Fusion. That product still exists and is being sold by Adobe. I had used that product, with some affection, when I was at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory back in the early 1990s.

In summary, the expected business opportunities created by Apple, the expected sales of the Apple iPad, present a serious business opportunity for Brightcove to engage customers. I asked if CBS might come around some day. Mr. Allaire surmised that, at some point, CBS might recognize that it’s a major undertaking and expense to develop such expertise in-house. “Who knows? Maybe soon, they’ll come around.”

It’s likely that we’ll continue to hear about customers who decide to jump on the HTML5 and iPhone/iPad bandwagon and engage Brightcove. Market opportunities always seem to drive technology, and Apple has a knack for creating those opportunities.

Comments

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Eh, pub grab. He’s putting his company out there as capable of doing what can be done today and with a roadmap to cover what he thinks can be done tomorrow. He’s mostly irrelevant to publishers who are using Flash today in their processes. He doesn’t address ad supported monetization today. He doesn’t address archival Flash data today. But he says all the right things about all platforms being great and he gets in the news this week. Good on him, I guess.

xmattingly

Meh. I still don’t buy the “parity with Flash” suggestion, and especially not within this year. Parity with what can be done between one platform and another? Sort of. But that doesn’t account for ease of development… which is years down the road for HTML 5.

Neither do I believe Flash will be around solely for PC’s… that’s completely bunk. Mac browsers, including Safari, still support Flash and will continue to for the foreseeable future. Naturally, if Apple wanted Safari to lose market share (and IMO embarrass themselves in the process), all they need to do is bring the anti-Flash jihad to the desktop. They’re smarter than that though.

John Martellaro

xmattingly: But consider this:

http://gizmodo.com/5504402/how-the-ipad-is-already-reshaping-the-internet-without-flash

xmattingly

Thanks for sharing, John. It is true that the influence of popular products - namely Apple’s mobile devices - will help shape the internet somewhat.

My contention is that Flash, as a rich media builder, will be a hard one to knock off the throne for years to come, and that is largely dependent on development tools. If I want to create a looping animation, what can be done with Javascript would take days (or weeks) compared to an afternoon spent with Flash.

That article did link to another lengthy article about HTML 5 (though they oddly don’t spend much time explaining why it won’t kill Flash). They do go on to say that HTML 5 will have a spot with online video - which I agree with; but as far as rich interfaces… that’s far down the road.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

My contention is that Flash, as a rich media builder, will be a hard one to knock off the throne for years to come, and that is largely dependent on development tools. If I want to create a looping animation, what can be done with Javascript would take days (or weeks) compared to an afternoon spent with Flash.

Not just looping animations. I have seen several collaboration platforms built on Flash that were doable in a few months by competent developers, that are deployable and scalable using well entrenched products, and that can be easily customized and maintained. Flash is a robust platform. As yet, HTML5 is not.

The larger game Apple is playing is trying to pre-empt the inevitable “why doesn’t the iPad show all these sites?” question. That question leads to many others, such as “why would users cede so much control to Apple?”. Apple is going to have to answer these questions. But they’ve managed to create enough noise around Flash/HTML5 that they can launch iPad without answering yet. 6 months from now, as Apple shows no signs of retreat in the Flash war, the people who pay for development of interactive content will be saying, “gee Apple, thanks for splintering my reader-base, more than doubling my costs, and really delivering no new revenues.”. Because the 90% readers who don’t jump of the iPad bandwagon aren’t going to tolerate dumbed down content because the 10% who do bought a retarded device.

Substance

Eh, pub grab.

How can you call it a “pub grab” when he was being interviewed?  Sure he he issued a press release earlier in the day, but that’s what smart companies do.  What’s he supposed to do, not talk about his products, what he is doing and what he thinks he’ll be doing in the next yaer? 

I’m not sure why you take every mention of HTML 5 personally. Step away from your computer and take off the hate-filled glasses for a while.

He?s putting his company out there as capable of doing what can be done today and with a roadmap to cover what he thinks can be done tomorrow.

I’m not even sure what you are complaining about here.  His company provides a service that anyone can employ for a price and, like any smart business, he has a plan for the future.  What am I missing?

He?s mostly irrelevant to publishers who are using Flash today in their processes.

His company was just hired by companies that currently produce Flash content.  I hardly call that irrelevant.

I don’t think this interview or the earlier article about BrightCove are meant to imply that content producers are dumping Flash.  Far from it.  It is pointing to the fact that content producers are quickly recognizing - in part from Apple forcing their hand a bit - that Flash isn’t the only game in town and that to remain competitive, they are going to have to embrace HTML5 (or whatever new technology comes to town). 

Considering that much of Flash’s popularity is at least partially attributed to the fact that it is already installed on almost every Web browsing computer, this is important.  It’s similar to Mozilla and IE, and Apple and Microsoft.  Many discounted the formers because of their smaller market share, but their influence on the industry greatly outweighed their user share.  Besides, don’t we all want a little choice?

He doesn?t address ad supported monetization today. He doesn?t address archival Flash data today.  But he says all the right things about all platforms being great and he gets in the news this week. Good on him, I guess.

Again, it was an interview, not a term paper.  Maybe you should blame John for not asking the right questions?  Or maybe you should recognize what the article is really driving at?

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Again, it was an interview, not a term paper.? Maybe you should blame John for not asking the right questions?? Or maybe you should recognize what the article is really driving at?

Fine. I blame most everyone in this market conversation for not knowing what the hell they are actually talking about. Streaming video initiated from Flash or HTML5 is the same damned thing with the same damned problems. Video has to be encoded for streaming, it needs hosting with adequate bandwidth, delivery with QOS in spec, etc. If you understand the technology from system layout to HTML code, Allaire pretty much issued a press release saying the sky was blue. And he’s doing interviews saying babies stink when they dirty their diapers. If you don’t understand how this stuff works, then it falls under *magical* and Allaire has co-opted some of Jobs’ RDF. Good on him.

What frustrates me is that Allaire’s blue sky and stinky baby do nothing to solve the real problems presented by Jobs’ anti-Flash fatwa. And of course, since Steve Jobs said Flash was bad, it must be bad, despite the fact that it’s not nearly as bad as purported and actually is a de facto standard for all sorts of activities that everyone enjoys on the web. Meanwhile, Apple fans who show no comprehension of how deeply Flash related stuff is entrenched in what they love about the day to day web continue to parrot Steve’s line.

Let me remind you… Last month, Jobs walked into the editorial room of the WSJ and told them that Flash was completely dead while their whole “back end” of production and advertising is heavily invested in it, let alone years of archival Flash content that they surely continue to reuse and monetize. Jobs didn’t even have an Apple branded alternative in hand that he could push as a new Apple controlled standard, as evil as that thought is. And you guys buy into anything he says? Really?

jfbiii

Allaire’s blue sky and stinky baby absolutely do solve the real problems of not having a flash-compatible device, specifically as it relates to the business his company is in. To start with, “more than doubling my costs” is completely off the mark. A large portion of the workflow for web video is agnostic when it comes to flash/html5. One set of files works for both, so immediately you don’t incur any additional encoding or hosting costs. Not everyone wants to deliver flash content or support a flash development environment just to serve video, either. If you’re already using a 3rd party as a CMS you’re not likely to see much of a bump for additional R&D to provide you with the ability to serve a mixed audience. Certainly not double.

As for no comprehension of how deeply Flash related stuff is entrenched in what they love about the day to day web, a few hours with Click-to-Flash is all you need to solve that. And you know what? “Entrenched” is overkill.

Substance

Flash is a robust platform. As yet, HTML5 is not.

I’ll give credit where credit is do, when you quit whining long enough to get to your point like you did here, then we can have a reasonable conversation.

I not enough of an expert on either technology to say anything conclusively, but based on the the number of years Flash has developed vs. HTML5 I think you’ve got a valid point here.

What frustrates me is that Allaire?s blue sky and stinky baby do nothing to solve the real problems presented by Jobs? anti-Flash fatwa…[Flash] is a de facto standard for all sorts of activities that everyone enjoys on the web. Meanwhile, Apple fans who show no comprehension of how deeply Flash related stuff is entrenched in what they love about the day to day web continue to parrot Steve?s line.

Seriously now, how deeply entrenched is Flash?  I use an iPhone and haven’t found anything that has me cursing at the fact that it doesn’t support Flash.  Your mileage may vary.  But I think for most people, what I read at Daring Fireball holds true.  If one comes across some content they want with an iPhone/iTouch that they want but they can’t get because it’s embeded with Flash, they may curse their iPhone/iTouch, curse Apple, swear they’ll get a new phone, etc.  And while a small handful may go through the effort to get a new phone, the overwhelming majority will get it over and go someplace that offers similar content without using Flash.

On my desktop, I use FlashBlock with FireFox and ClickToFlash for Safari.  It’s not quite the same since there’s a lot of things I want to do on the desktop that I wouldn’t expect to do on the iPhone and I can still get to the Flash content when necessary.  But again, I don’t feel that Flash is necessary for my daily Web activities. 

If anything, the current state of HTML/JavaScript/CSS continues to amaze me.  While I’m not saying it can match everything that Flash can do - and maybe it’s not even close - but it does more than enough for a rich UI to blow me away. 

I just used mint.com last night and it struck me as possibly the most luscious (if I can ever use that term, here it is) rich UI experience I can remember.  And it did it without pegging my processor.  I recall there was a page that did use Flash, for displaying pie charts of my expenses by category over the course of 1 month, 3 months, and the last year.  And I believe Discover just implemented something similar last time I viewed my credit card account online), so there could be a couple of examples where Flash had no equal. 

But for now, I’ll stand by my stance that I don’t feel that I need Flash to navigate the Web now, let alone in the future assuming that HTML5 continues to mature.

Let me remind you? Last month, Jobs walked into the editorial room of the WSJ and told them that Flash was completely dead while their whole ?back end? of production and advertising is heavily invested in it, let alone years of archival Flash content that they surely continue to reuse and monetize. Jobs didn?t even have an Apple branded alternative in hand that he could push as a new Apple controlled standard, as evil as that thought is. And you guys buy into anything he says? Really?

So are you saying that everyone here (and maybe elsewhere) are Apple fanboys because we’re sick of Flash?  I didn’t need Steve Jobs to tell me that Flash was bad (which I feel was a gross overgenaralization), I came to my own conclusion that Flash was more of a detrimet than a supplement to my Internet experience.  From pegged processors, a burning hot laptop in my lap, slow Web browser response times after Flash had been running for a few minutes, to the occasional browser crash, I have plenty of reasons for looking for alternatives to Flash other than any self-serving statements that Jobs makes.

Che, you’re just as guilty as overgeneralizing as Jobs is.  Not everyone here blindly follows Steve Jobs, yet you choose to associate everyone here as such because it fits your agenda.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

As for no comprehension of how deeply Flash related stuff is entrenched in what they love about the day to day web, a few hours with Click-to-Flash is all you need to solve that. And you know what? ?Entrenched? is overkill.

Apples to oranges. You are looking at Flash exclusively in terms of client side content. I am pointing out that it serves a number of purposes in the client/server model, from advertising and monetization to DRM.

I not enough of an expert on either technology to say anything conclusively, but based on the the number of years Flash has developed vs. HTML5 I think you?ve got a valid point here.

Yeah, that was obvious. This is why I chime in. Because behind my polite and respectful demeanor, I do have the technical chops and experience to cut through the bullshit. Allaire is out there exploiting the chasm between discussion in the media and facts on the ground, and not adding anything. See it for what it is grin.

dalasc

@Che Bosco:  Troll much?  This is macobserver.com.  Most everything you posted could be taken as anti-mac…so why are you here then?

If I had much more time I would love to “converse” more, as there are many “points” you made that deserve a response.  I’m going to have to stick to just one that you made though (and I’m surprised no one else has yet responded to it).

You said, “the people who pay for development of interactive content will be saying, ‘Gee Apple. Thanks for splintering my reader base, more than doubling my costs, and really delivering no new revenues.’ Because the 90% of readers who don?t jump on the iPad bandwagon aren?t going to tolerate dumbed down content because of the 10% who bought a retarded device.”

Retarded device?  How old are you?

For somebody who “has the technical chops and experience to cut through the bullshit”, I for one am not yet impressed.

These web content owners who either develop in house or pay someone else to do it are a business, and what they choose to develop is a business decision, no different than saying “sell in US only or expand overseas to area X, Y, and Z too”.  If there are Flash devices/customers and non-Flash devices/customers, that’s just life.  Who cares?  It is their business decision what to do about it.  Make a good business decision?  Make a bad business decision?  Ignore the non-Flash devices/customers or not?  Screw up the web for the “90%” of Flash devices/customers in order to cater to the “10%” of non-Flash devices/customers?  If they “do”, that is their fault.  Developing web content is not rocket science.

It looks to me like it simply comes down to the fact that the non-Flash devices/customers don’t need Flash more than the Flash content owners/developers need them.  I think Adobe made a mistake by disregarding Apple’s products and focusing on making “quality” content for PC’s and IE.  And beyond that they seem to have engendered a lot of general distaste among many internet users of all type.  It’s almost to the point where Adobe has no hope for getting out of the mess they created.  And Steve is absolutely clever for trying to take advantage of the paradigm shift that the new mobile devices (iPhones, iPads, etc.) will bring to loosen Flash’s monopolistic grip on internet content and provide people alternatives.

Sour grapes, perhaps?

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

I just googled “define: retarded” and found this: cause to move more slowly or operate at a slower rate;. Which is what I am talking about here. This device is purposely crippled so as not to access all the content that people expect to see on the Internet. Your geeky jihad against Flash is just going to hold innocent people hostage who could otherwise give a rat’s ass about whether Flash is a performance hog or not. They just want the whole Internet.

And as to Adobe being lazy and Windows focussed. On Windows, since about 2000, they have had one, count it O-N-E, graphics model to support within IE. On the Mac side today, there are four, count them F-O-U-R graphics models to support if you want to cover from 10.4 clear up the latest, greatest kit that Apple thinks will solve all these performance problems today.

It’s a shame that your fourth grader mentality took over when it saw that word. Think skin, perhaps?

dalasc

@Che Bosco:  Sometimes it’s not the word, but how it is used.

“This device is purposely crippled so as not to access all the content that people expect to see on the Internet. Your geeky jihad against Flash is just going to hold innocent people hostage who could otherwise give a rat?s ass about whether Flash is a performance hog or not. They just want the whole Internet.”  I’m very confident history will look back unfavorably upon Flash.  And how on Earth can you claim to know and speak for every one of the x billion people on this planet who use the internet!  I think the objective facts about product sales and internet usage that exist speak for themselves though.  And that seems to be scaring some.  If you want to pretend otherwise, whatever.  But please keep it to yourself because such negativity helps nothing.

Anyway, you haven’t yet answered how old you are.  Twenties?  Thirties?  Fourties?  Fifties?  Sixties?

And why are you hanging around macobserver.com?  Trolling?

“It?s a shame that your fourth grade mentality took over when it saw that word. Thin skin, perhaps?”  What word?  And the classic sign of weak arguments is to assassinate character instead of addressing the other’s points.  Another is avoiding questions posed.  Finally, no thin skin here.  There are simply some things in life that people need to speak out against because silence is implicit acceptance/agreement.  Your one paragraph was simply too over the top.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

@dalasc, if you’ve been around here since TMO kind of emerged from Webintosh (about 13 years ago), then you know everything there is to know about me. I call it like I see it. I know of 80 millionish people I can speak for. Those are active players of FarmVille, most of whom have no idea how Adobe’s Flash platform (not just Flash delivery to the browser) makes Zynga’s games systems possible and makes games like FarmVille evolve in change in near-real-time.

There are long time Mac people like me who see an Apple that has prospered and then lost its way. Some have been semi-prominent in some Mac circles like me. Some were absolute superstars like Guy Kawasaki. You see some Mac press guys like Ted critical in a measured way. Apple and fanboys butter their bread, and they have to bite their tongues and toe whatever line Apple draws. Call us trolls if it makes you feel good. You’re probably the guy at Starbucks with the iPad and the man purse we’ll all be snickering at grin.

dalasc

@Che:  No I haven’t been hanging around TMO for 13 years.  If I knew you, I wouldn’t have asked about you.

Sorry, no man can speak for even 80 millionish people.  You…might…be able to speak for about 10 of your closest friends if you converse with them almost daily at a deeply philosophical level so that you intimately know their opinions.

Farmville?  What would we all do without having Flash and being able to play that game?  Do you have any better examples of how critical Flash is to the internet?

Prospered, lost its way, but not prospering again now?  How do you define semi-prominent?  Guy, I know who he is.  So far, from what I’ve seen of him, I respect him a lot.  I would consider him “pro Apple” though.  Ted who?  And I’m sorry, I don’t know you enough yet to understand your position in the computer industry hierarchy.  I do know it is hard to believe you are “pro Apple” now though.  So, why still hanging at macobserver.com?

Don’t bite your tongues.  Nobody ever should.  Being stress-free, happy, and in a place where you feel you belong is far more important than a paycheck.  People in the position you describe should be able to eventually find different jobs if they really tried.  Life is too short.  And the people you describe are not doing Apple and Apple fanboys any helpful service, that’s for sure.

I don’t need to…try…to pin the troll label on you, you might actually qualify for being cited as a dictionary example!  We don’t need more proof from you, but “You?re probably the guy at Starbucks with the iPad and the man purse we?ll all be snickering at” is clearly another good one.  Why are you so bitter?  If you’re the old esteemed veteran of the industry you are trying to claim to be, with a great ability to “cut through all the bull”, I would love to learn more from that kind of person.  But the negativity is too overwhelming, and there are certainly no insights, hard examples, and data that I can see so far from you that make a person want to try to listen to you.  You have again attacked character and not addressed the important points.  I am far from the “Starbucks guy with an iPad and a man purse” my friend.

xmattingly

Starbucks guy with an iPad and a man purse

It’s not a man purse. It’s a European carry-all!

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

@dalasc… I get it. You like to call people names but don’t like return smack. Fine, I’ll only laugh about your $500 Apple picture frame behind your back grin. Here are a couple facts for you.

1. Guy Kawasaki was the original Macintosh evangelist and was an “Apple Fellow” when Steve Jobs returned. He wrote a book called “The Macintosh Way”. Over on Alltop.com (his new big project), he proudly pimps the Nexus One. He has been consistently critical of late of Apple’s closed iPhone system, pretty much calling it lame and stupid.

2. There are now about 80 million active monthly users of FarmVille. It is a Flash game that leverages an entire Flash platform, not just the Flash player in your browser. It was launched in June of last year and quickly became the most popular app ever. Read that sentence again. So, the 80 million people who play it have not hired me as a lobbyist, and despite what they might individually tell you, I can safely conclude from their continued action of playing FarmVille that Flash is a requirement for their daily computing experience.

This Flash/HTML5 thing is a great fanboy litmus test. Why? Because there is far more to Flash as a platform than the plugin that plays in the browser. So if you are honestly anti-Flash, you need to be honestly anti the things that Flash makes possible. It’s a fair enough position to take, but it is a bit extreme. For example, many (mostly technical) people use Flash blockers to avoid distracting ads in their web browsers. But the fact that most people don’t keeps a lot of great content free on the Internet. While Google dominates Internet advertising, the Flash platform probably keeps Google from completely owning the space. A newspaper, for example, can deploy a Flash-based advertising system fairly cheaply using OTS software and commodity server systems.

Similarly, there are a plethora of sales, collaboration, and internal process apps written in Flash that have had the advantage that they could be deployed regardless of end-user platform or even browser choice. They are easy to create, the back ends are easy to secure and deploy, and they pretty much just work. If your company uses these technologies and you depend on them for your hour to hour productivity, your iPad won’t be part of that. And why? Because Steve Jobs started a jihad instead of just having his engineers fix the bottlenecks on the Apple side of the equation. An Adobe engineer recently noted that Microsoft has had a single programming model for video in its browser since 2000ish, while Apple has four distinct models in play right now if you want to reach customers still on 10.4—Adobe needs to reach back that far for ubiquity. And yet, with all the tweaking and reengineering Apple continually does, Flash is still a bit of a dog on Mac OS, but seamlessly takes advantage of hardware acceleration under Windows. Even on the same exact hardware!

The fact is that Flash is a de facto content standard on the web. Google recognizes this and will be baking Flash directly into its Chrome browser. Some would argue that Flash shouldn’t be a standard because it’s proprietary. In fact, many Apple fanboys come right back to this very point, ignorant of their hypocrisy in supporting Apple’s closed iPhone platform as a great innovation in ease of use and malware prevention.

In another TMO thread recently, someone realized that if Apple allowed Flash in its mobile browser, that the iPhone platform would have no need for 150,000+ native apps, approved by Apple, with Apple taking its 30% cut. I was like, well duh, people are just figuring that out now?!? But of course, it’s entirely the point of this whole drama. And it’s such a misguided point on Apple’s part. All they have to do is look at the Wii. You can play Flash games in the Wii browser. You’ve been able to do that since the Opera browser shipped for free. There are whole free web sites with Flash games specifically optimized for the Wii’s screen size and motion controllers. And it hasn’t done a damned thing to hurt platform sales or packaged game sales for the platform. But hey, the fanboys just buy what Steve says and the reasons he gives…

IPTVTimes.net

Can you get any further up Allaire’s arse ? KIT is a bad company, but they’re roughly the same size are BC. theplatform were true innovators in this market and are miles cleverer than BC.

Anyone with a iPhone app is already on the iPad, so journalists fawning over ‘iPad support’ is disengenious.

dalasc

@Che:  Thank you.  We almost had a normal conversation without any unnecessary ugliness!  I double-checked all of my posts and honestly didn’t see a single time I name called.  What did I offend you with exactly?

And it was never about me.  I started off taking exception to: “because of the 10% who bought a retarded device.”  Remember?  The later comments you did direct toward me didn’t bother me other than that same issue of being unnecessarily ugly.  It’s a free country, so of course you don’t have to like a product.  But do you have any serious problems with the iPad?  Discussed maturely?  “It’s a $500 Apple picture frame,” doesn’t count for example.

Like I said, I know who Guy is.  And qualified my statement about him with “from what I’ve seen of him”.  I haven’t followed his latest projects yet, so no I didn’t hear about his latest “positions” on Apple.  I see now why you put him in that grouping though.  I will definitely go check out his latest, mainly to see if I would agree with your interpretation.  Some people thought it was a big deal that Woz had a Nexus One too.  “He hates Apple!  And the iPhone!  Loves Google!”  On and on, ad nauseum.  Without a doubt there is a huge chunk of the American population that seems to love to try to tear things down.  And create conspiracies, and drama, and wars, where none in fact exist.  You wouldn’t do such a thing, would you?

Who’s Ted?  How do you define semi-prominent exactly?  Apple prospered, lost its way…but is not prospering again now?

I also knew about Farmville, if that wasn’t clear.  Sorry, but that doesn’t qualify as being critical to making a great internet in my opinion.  You can’t be that self-absorbed you honestly think people care that much about a silly internet game and wouldn’t find something else to entertain themselves with, right?  On the internet or off.  “If you are honestly anti-Flash, you need to be honestly anti the things that Flash makes possible.”  And that would be…?  I never aspire to be hypocritical.  If you remember, I had asked if you had any better examples of how critical Flash is to the internet.  Something with real meat.  Because I do care about hearing from both sides of the issue.  (That is why I try to read such “news” articles as this one.)  Specific examples though, not general.

What are Steve Jobs’ five biggest reasons for not wanting Flash on his new mobile devices?  Answered seriously.

I don’t know why you think that somebody having faith that Steve might know what he’s talking about is “fanboys just buying what Steve says” with no brain of their own.  He has his own unique plans, he gets to call his top engineers in to his office whenever he wants to explain anything he wants to know, he is sitting in the board room meetings with other company execs as deals, and problems, and politics, and maneuvering (a.k.a. “business”) is carried out.  Not young Krystofer “Man-Purse” Dillon at a Starbucks counter with his iPad.  Krystofer and the rest of us aren’t privy to that.  But you are.  So, please tell us.  What does Steve know?  What are his biggest reasons?  With billions of dollars at stake if you make the wrong decision for the consumer.  Steve has nothing else to do, he’s just throwing darts at a board, and it landed on ‘pick on Flash’, right?

Your last four paragraphs are full of a couple of provocative issues, but mostly misinformation, incorrect understanding, and unnecessary negativity.  Why are you so quick to embrace such things?  Life is too short.

Trying to keep this brief.  Hope I didn’t miss anything important.  This conversation might have been an enjoyable one if you were willing to be more pleasant toward people.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

@dalasc: Above, you wrote: @Che Bosco:  Troll much?  This is macobserver.com.  Most everything you posted could be taken as anti-mac?so why are you here then?

I don’t take any exception to it, other than to note that only a brainwashed unthinking fanboy could come in here and write that. Steve tells you Flash is bad, so Flash is bad. Because he’s the billionaire who knows everything. It’s funny, he went in and told the editors of the Wall Street Journal the same thing, and they turned around, and within hours, wrote an editorial how they worried that Apple was becoming like Microsoft and that Steve Jobs was arrogant.

About the negativity… Steve Jobs declared war on Flash. It’s funny. 13 years ago, almost to the day, he declared war on an Apple technology I was all in on called OpenDoc. And he did it after all the people who worked for him in developer relations had spent 3 months after the NeXT acquisition convincing us that “maintenance mode” meant we could look forward to a few years of support in the OS, much like other core technologies that didn’t have engineering teams slaving away at them for each OS release. So this is just Steve’s MO. And nothing would be more satisfying than to see him cry his way out of the company because the rest of the industry (comprising of a multi-billion dollar company and tens of thousands of small and mid-size developer companies) kicks him square in the nuts. If you think they’re not readying themselves and lining up for the chance, you’re delusional.

I’m gonna make you keep guessing who Ted is and what sorts of subversive things he’s written on TMO. When you figure that out, you’ll have shown that you’ve passed beyond being a drive-by troll.

FarmVille with 80 million regular users, the most popular app ever, has no meat. Advertising that supports much of the free content on the web has no meat. Collaborative CRM apps and countless internal business process apps have no meat. Child, please! Those comprise my honest fanboy test. Sadly, you don’t pass.

dalasc

@Che:  You said, “I don?t take any exception to it.”  First I’m a name caller, now I’m not?  You can’t answer simple honest questions.  Was it troll that offended you?

Sorry.  Don’t be one and you will stop being called one.

This is macobserver.com.  You apparently hate everything about Steve and Apple and Macs and iPhones and iPads and so on.  Everything.  So why are you here?  You can easily get your technology news elsewhere.

Who knows what our biological ages differ by.  You don’t answer simple basic questions.  With respect to maturity, I agree there is at least one commenter to this article acting like a child.  Please give us your age bracket.  Twenties?  Thirties?  Fourties?  Fifties?  Sixties?  It’s general enough to be no invasion of privacy.  Why don’t you want to answer that?

I’m far from a brainwashed fanboy of anything.  I care deeply about unbiased objective facts, data, and research.  Again, for example on Flash, that is why I periodically read articles like this one to try to learn all sides of an issue.  “Only a brainwashed, unthinking fanboy would come in here and…” do what, exactly?  Have some logic and rationality and enough backbone to call somebody on an outrageous unnecessarily negative comment like “because of the 10% who do bought a retarded device.”

Do you understand that it is possible to be against something, but do it with etiquette, class, and dignity?

Please have the courage to answer that one, if nothing else, because if yes, then you can acknowledge my point and we can all move on.  If no, then…

I wanted to also say I’m still interested in hearing what Steve’s five biggest reasons are for not wanting Flash on his new mobile devices.  You paint yourself as a “wise”, “unbiased”, “been around since the early days”, “unbrainwashed”, “critically-thinking”, “fact-driven” expert with all the answers.  Steve, and those who are busy simply living their lives and are happy to trust Steve’s judgement, are “idiots”.  So, please tell us…what are the top five?  With billions of dollars at stake if he makes the wrong decisions and many many people’s jobs on the line, Steve is delusional…has nothing better to do, is just throwing darts at a board, and one landed one day on ‘pick on Flash’, right?

Are you mad at him because he changes things too much?  Makes promises, but then has to break them?  And the reasons might not be fully communicated?

I don’t think it’s Steve’s fault really.  Be mad at the consumers!  It looks like they (including me I admit) don’t think even Apple moves fast enough to bring them the kind of products and services they want.  People can’t get enough!  The built up demand for Apple’s stuff is almost unbelievable.  (Reason is technology can be overwhelming and most people just want it useful but invisible so to speak.)  Steve/Apple seem to understand that.  I for one know that, relative to my wish list, the current state of the computer/internet industry is still in the stone age.  And change for the better can’t come fast enough.  If that’s too much heat for some, they should step aside and let others have a chance at trying to fill that void.

I didn’t care that much about who Ted is.  Are you serious?

And I certainly never did…nor ever will…care about passing anybody’s “tests”.  You still don’t know who this is.  But are happy to make many assumptions.

How are you defining semi-prominent exactly?  Apple prospered, lost its way, but is not prospering again now?

dalasc

(continued from last)

You sort of answered my question about examples of how critical Flash is to the internet.  You said, “1) Farmville 2) Advertising that supports much of the free content on the web 3) Collaborative CRM apps and 4) Countless internal business process apps.

I already said Farmville is a weak argument for evidence of Flash’s critical impact for the success of the internet.  It’s just a silly game, in the grand scheme of life, that nobody will probably be talking about or playing in another few months.  (Just passing along the unfortunately-true reality of consumer behavior.)  And eighty million is a highly questionable number by the way.  You can lay the user histogram on me to support that number, if you’d like.  If one is using Farmville as just an example for all games on the internet, then I would agree Flash might have helped a tiny tiny bit with the success of the internet by bringing some games.  Again, what are the other options to Flash for bringing games though?  Would need to be answered.

Advertising that supports much of the free content…too general.  First please show me an example of quality content worth people’s time.  Then please show me what the advertising is for exactly.  (Its effect in hard data.)  Then please show me how Flash is critical to doing the advertising over any other options.  And so on.  Then I might be able to respond better.  It is funny you list advertising as one of the defenses for Flash.  Aren’t spam, pop-ups, banners, annoying uncontrollable ads, etc. some of the very reasons most people (above and beyond just Steve) think negatively upon Flash?  Strictly speaking, and in my opinion only, I think Flash is one of the things helping certain people ruin the internet.  If you want to ally yourself with that, it’s a free country.

CRM apps…kind of the same thing as advertising the way it gets implemented in real life.  About the only thing I might agree with is the sales part of CRM.  Online shopping is a pretty cool thing.  But again your response was a little general.  And how does Flash play a critical role in online shopping versus other options?

Internal business apps…I think that is irrelevant to the general user of the internet.  (Without whom there really is no internet and things would still probably be stuck in an “arpanet” era.)  Business tools are a dime a dozen and are only important to the particular businesses who use them.  There are several business iPhone apps out there too.  So what?  I have never heard anybody claim they were responsible for iTunes’ popularity.  You simply don’t see that stuff being ‘front-page news’ fodder.  So I would consider this another weak piece of evidence in favor of Flash’s criticality.  And Steve’s new mobile devices are clearly intended right now to be far more consumer-oriented than business-oriented, with no Flash on the iPhone and iPad being harmless then for this example.

I still struggle to see how no more Flash would instantly ruin everybody’s lives.

This will probably be the last time I am able to patiently wait for a civil response from you with replies to these questions.  Like everyone else, there are other things I would prefer to be doing.  So, hoping for you to be in a better mood I guess while writing your next response.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

@dalasc… I skimmed your windbaggery above. Knowledgeable or caring about what people a lot of people actually want to do with their computing devices, you are not. FarmVille aside, I was telling you about many Flash applications that are probably only significant in their tiny niches, but in aggregate, account for a whole lot more development time, sunk cost, and ongoing economic benefit than the iPad will. Dismissing FarmVille just shows your elitism.

It’s unclear what people really want to do with the iPad. That will emerge starting today. Is it a Star Trek carry-with all-access tablet? Is it for casual use on the couch? Either way, Flash as a delivery platform would add a lot more things people could do now with the device. For the same $500, and if I can be patient for a month while they get their act together, I can get a JooJoo from a little company in Woodside, CA. Basically a tablet web browser with Flash. The Internet is your App Store.

Substance

This Flash/HTML5 thing is a great fanboy litmus test. Why? Because there is far more to Flash as a platform than the plugin that plays in the browser. So if you are honestly anti-Flash, you need to be honestly anti the things that Flash makes possible.

So if I’m against Flash, I’m automatically an Apple fanboy?  That’s the way you make it sound here (and in several other of your posts for that matter). 

There are many, many reasons to be anti-Flash, and ‘because Steve Jobs said so’ doesn’t even make my list.  And I do have a Web development background so I have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject. 

The most important point though is not all the things that Flash can do, it’s how much of it do most people need.  And the fact is most people need very little Flash to surf the Web. 

When it comes to rich UI or playing video, Flash is not the best option, both in theory (see Web standards and separating content from presentation) and in practice (performance).  And that right there takes out 97% of Internet’s use of Flash.  I don’t have an issue with using Flash for games or for sophisticated vector graphic representations of data.

The fact is that Flash is a de facto content standard on the web.  Some would argue that Flash shouldn?t be a standard because it?s proprietary. In fact, many Apple fanboys come right back to this very point, ignorant of their hypocrisy in supporting Apple?s closed iPhone platform as a great innovation in ease of use and malware prevention.

Bad analogy.  The Web was built as an open platform and myself and many others will argue that it must remain open.  And to remain open, it needs to rely on open technologies that anyone can implement.  Flash threatens all of this, since one can envision a Web built just on Flash and then Adobe becomes the de-facto front door to everything.  Sounds reminiscent of AOL to me. 

The iPhone is not the Web.  It is a closed environment because it was built by Apple and they decided that it was in their best interest.  And without Apple, it wouldn’t exist.  They don’t have to share it with anyone before the market or antitrust regulations demands it.  What smart business would?

In another TMO thread recently, someone realized that if Apple allowed Flash in its mobile browser, that the iPhone platform would have no need for 150,000+ native apps, approved by Apple, with Apple taking its 30% cut.

One could also write Web apps to replace any iApp that doesn’t access an iPhone/iTouch hardware feature (camera, GPS) directly, which was Apple’s initial direction to developers when they first released the iPhone.  Complain all you want about Apple’s app store model, but its success speaks for itself.  Apple didn’t force people to download apps, it offers them a means and people responded en-masse.  It clearly offered people something they wanted.  Heck, I prefer to use a company’s iApp over visiting their Web page on the iPhone.

dalasc

@Che:  “I skimmed your windbaggery.”  Tapping out already?  Words are cheap.  You don’t get to just call it windbaggery.  You have to prove it so.

“Knowledgeable about…you are not.”  Wisdom is earned from a lifetime of study, not replicating the simple grammatical structure of a fictional character.

Log-in to comment