Judge Shoots Down Samsung’s 12 Summary Judgement Requests

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Judge Lucy Koh denied Samsung’s request over the weekend for summary judgement in all twelve of its patent infringement claims against Apple. The two companies have been fighting in court for months over mobile device patent infringement allegations, and recently Apple managed to win two U.S. preliminary injunctions blocking the sale of Samsung’s Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet and the Galaxy Nexus smartphone.

Samsung loses request for summary judgement in patent infringement caseSamsung loses request for summary judgement in patent infringement case

“Samsung attacked the validity of each and every one of the intellectual property rights asserted by Apple at this stage as well as Apple’s FRAND-related antitrust claims, and failed all the way,” said Florian Muller of Foss Patents. “It is very unusual for such a multi-pronged motion by a major industry player to fail entirely.”

Judge Koh’s ruling helps underscore what appears to be a growing belief that Samsung is stepping on Apple’s patents as do the preliminary injunctions she granted.

Mr. Muller added, “I think the litigation has reached a point at which Judge Koh realizes perfectly well that Samsung and its ‘partner in crime’ Google are infringers (whose counterclaims are dubious at least), and that the full force of the law must be brought to bear.”

Apple won its first preliminary injunction against Samsung last week against the Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet and promptly paid the US$2.6 million bond to enforce it. Only days later, Judge Koh granted Apple a second preliminary injunction, this time blocking sales of the Galaxy Nexus smartphone.

Even though Samsung has been hit hard by the court rulings it doesn’t mean the electronics maker is down for the count, although its arguments may be hard to back up at trial. Samsung has been presenting patents considered standards essential in its case — a strategy that isn’t sitting well with the Judges that have been overseeing the various parts of the case.

Samsung is appealing the injunction against the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Neither company has commented on Judge Koh’s ruling on Samsung’s summary judgement request.

Comments

WozistheBozz

Well, this post is definitely a departure for me, but way to be objective and non-biased, guys. Apple’s patents are just downright absurd here, as they’re too vague and they basically proved they can patent anything so long as its full of jargon and too technical for this dingbat judge to understand.

This is only hurting the consumers. I’ve been a diehard apple lover until this weekend, and a longtime macobserver reader,  but after this I finally realized after 13 years what a monopolistic abomination apple has become. They’re truly evil now, and I can’t be a part of it anymore. I placed my SGS3 order this morning on amazon, and I won’t be going back. I feel ashamed for trolling the android fans on engadget and gizmodo over the years now, and perhaps some of them actually did have some valid points. My god, apple had blinded me.

My at&t 4s (5.1) and new ipad will be on ebay this afternoon, if anyone is interested. I just don’t want anything to do with apple anymore. Goodbye.

Davegeek1979

I am pretty sure no one will miss you when you are gone.  This sort of response is exactly what the Apple “FanBoys” are constantly accused of, and it really does not sound any different coming from you.

crazykid

Shut up Dave.  If that is how he/she feels then they have a right to feel that way.  I’m selling my Iphone this week to get a Galaxy S3.  He/she isn’t the first person I’ve heard about to jump off the Apple wagon because of this crap.  Apple should be innovating, and I’m not so sure they’re doing that anymore.

webjprgm

Apple is using what appears to be bogus patents because that’s what they’ve got.  The real issue is what Tim Cook said, that Apple does not want to be the developer for the world.  Samsung clearly copied Apple’s designs.  So they are trying to enforce anything that is legally enforceable to make them pay for that.

The patent / IP system has issues, but I’m not mad at Apple here.

jfbiii

This is only hurting the consumers.

Actually, just the opposite. Forcing other players to actually, you know, solve problems in new ways is GOOD for consumers. It prevents everyone from just providing a “me too!” product.

Don’t get me wrong, the patent system is incredibly broken. It needs serious reform. But Samsung got into this position by creating duplicates of Apple products. Blatantly and repeatedly.

sflocal

This is only hurting the consumers.

This is an overused and tired response when one cannot provide a clear rebuttal.

This has ZERO effect on consumers, and this is not about the consumer.  How many times must one constantly beat this into one’s head to grasp a very simple concept?

This is actually good for the consumer because the clowns at Samsung will actually have to come up with their own designs, and products without resorting to using Apple’s R&D department as their own.  This is actually a good thing in the long run.

But no.  Obviously the iHaters, trolls, and typical whiners are coming out in full force today since they fail to see the bigger picture here.

If you’re “supposedly” leaving the Apple camp for greener pastures, by all means I’ll help throw you out the door and make sure it hits you on the way out.  Honestly, if you think Apple is bad, a simple search on how the competitors treat their customers and products will add even more fuel to the flame as to why Apple has the highest product satisfaction levels and best customer service ratings.

Go right ahead, leave.  Seriously… you won’t be missed.  You think way to highly of yourself.

sflocal

*duplicate*

Lexorwhite

I was going to by the new ipad for apple but not anymore. I am getting sick of apple’s business ethical, anti competition, and anti innovation.  So no more apple products for me….

eimbier

I am bothered by not only Apple continually using legal means, but other large companies, too.  How can a small tech business compete with legal threats from industry leaders?  Apple is the company in 1984 that made the “Big Brother” commercial about its main competitor.  We cheered.  Now Apple is the big elephant in the room.  I wish that the MacObserver article listed and described the patents involved in this case so readers can understand what the issue is.

Patents are needed for short term protection.  However, some patents are quite general.  Then can slow innovation especially where software is involved.  One could independently come up with the same solution there is a patent for.

In this case:  1. Are the patents covering strong innovation?
2. Is the judge in this case savvy enough to understand the patents?
3. Has the US Patent Office set the bar too low for these patent awards?

gnasher729

In this case:? 1. Are the patents covering strong innovation?
2. Is the judge in this case savvy enough to understand the patents?
3. Has the US Patent Office set the bar too low for these patent awards?

1. Is irrelevant. Either you have a patent, or you don’t.
2. The judge is savvy enough to understand the law, and both parties will provide expert testimony to explain their point of view to the judge.
3. Not the US Patent Office, but the law makers.

But the important thing to know right now is that this was just about a request for summary judgement, which will only succeed if the plaintiff made some really stupid claims. To get a summary judgement, Samsung would have had to show “even if everything that Apple says is true, Samsung should still win the case”. Apple would have to show “even if everything that Samsung says is true, Apple should still win the case”. Either would be a rare exception.

Garion

. Apple?s patents are just downright absurd here, as they?re too vague and they basically proved they can patent anything so long as its full of jargon and too technical for this dingbat judge to understand

Do you have a better understanding of this patent dispute between Apple and Samsung than judge Lucy Koh who has spent months listening to both parties in this case?

jfbiii

In other news: Thousands Of US Citizens To Flee To Canada To Escape Obamacare.

furbies

I find it curious that a number of those who posted on this piece aren’t actually registered.

How can I be certain that those posters aren’t just one person trolling the forums on the behalf of Samsunk ?

MacObserver I think you need to enforce a signup to post requirement.

Lee Dronick

In other news: Thousands Of US Citizens To Flee To Canada To Escape Obamacare.

Where they have socialized medicine smile

furbies

In other news: Thousands Of US Citizens To Flee To Canada To Escape Obamacare.

Where they have socialized medicine

Doh!

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

He/she isn?t the first person I?ve heard about to jump off the Apple wagon because of this crap.

I am probably the first person. Put my iPhone in a drawer two years ago, and didn’t look back. The iPhone continues to feel like a (small) Fisher Price toy to me compared to my Android phone, now a “banned” Galaxy Nexus. I save at least one person a week from buying Apple crap. It’s how I stay right with the world.

MacFrogger

Bosco said:

I save at least one person a week from buying Apple crap. It?s how I stay right with the world.

Bosco - you’re a riot!  If that statement ain’t “bait” for Ron, I dunno what is!

RonMacGuy

Bosco - you?re a riot!  If that statement ain?t ?bait? for Ron, I dunno what is!

grin  You know, if I weren’t so busy at work, I’d be having a field day on TMO these past few days. But alas, I am totally buried and stressed, and only have brief moments to get a TMO chuckle.  Budget season for 2013 - not even going to tell Brad what my engineering budget is going to be next year - he gets so mean with that information!!

We will see on July 24 how successful Brad has been in his one-man fight against Apple.  I suspect his one person a week is not only pitifully small against the growing tide of new Apple supporters, it is also probably grossly exaggerated and wildly inaccurate, as Bosco’s comments usually are.  Or should I say Bosco aka WozistheBozz aka crazykid aka Lexorwhite - LOL, how DO you come up with these names, Brad?

Oh, and with all of the continuing litigation, I suspect it will be any day now when we read the headline, “Florian Muller was assaulted today by an unknown assailant from America…”

zewazir

I am confused.  Either that, or several other people are confused.  The article referenced is about the court rejecting all 12 requests from Samsung for summary judgements against Apple, in a lawsuit in which SAMSUNG is suing APPLE for copyright infringements.

Judge Lucy Koh denied Samsung?s request over the weekend for summary judgement in all twelve of its patent infringement claims against Apple.

Yet the response is how HORRIBLE, MEAN SPIRITED, and downright IMMORAL Apple Corp. is for suing Samsung for copyright infringements. Because Samsungs suits against Apple are going bad, it’s APPLE who is the bad guy?

Excuse me?  ONE: Samsung LOSES all it’s bids for summary judgement, so their case is going to trial.  TWO: Apple WINS an injunction against Samsung while that case is waiting for trial.

What does that tell us?  Either the Honorable Koh is an Apple Fangirl, ? OR ? Apple has a recognizable case against Samsung, in which case all the demonizing of Apple is just so much anti-Apple hubris by those individuals whose days are not complete unless they find a way to troll Apple centric discussion sites.

As an owner of certain intellectual properties, I am on the side of justice for the holders of intellectual properties. There is a significant amount of effort, an personal innovation, that goes into the creation of intellectual property. As such, as far as I can see, STEALING it is no different than stealing my television. Those of us who do have intellectual property have it because we WORKED to create it, and as such, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting compensation for it, NOR is there anything wrong with going after thieves who decide they can make money of MY creation without my permission.

IF Apple is, indeed, usurping Samsung intellectual property in their alleged copyright infringements, then Apple needs to pony up for their actions.  Period. Of course, it currently seems the court does not agree with Samsung that their properties are being infringed. Guess we’ll have to wait for trial on this one.

Likewise, if Samsung is, indeed, infringing on the intellectual properties of Apple, the Samsung needs to pnoy up.  Period. But unlike Samsung’s claims against Apple, it seems that the court AGREES with Apple that their intellectual properties are being infringed.  And while we will also have to wait for the process to finalize, a preliminary injunction against Samsung for their alleged infringements does not bode well for the outcome of that particular trial.

So, people, if Samsung’s claims are being, temporarily, rejected, while Apple’s claims are being, temporarily, upheld by the courts, HOW IS APPLE THE BAD GUY HERE?

James

I may not know every single aspect of this case, but I see and hear about mostly one thing in the news about cellular phones, most- Apple suing Samsung. I have seen the photoshopped images that Apple conjured up trying to get judges to ban Samsung’s hardware. I have seen their patenting of rectangular devices with thin bezels with touch screens. Are you serious? How do you patent this? I have seen them get awarded a patent for slide to unlock. Shouldn’t this be simply commonplace? Apple has a patent on unified search… And they got a Samsung phone banned because of it, right? Google practically invented search, and it was Google’s product (Android) on the phone that got it banned. Google has been doing search a WHOLE lot longer than Apple, but they patent existing technology, then basically sue the actual inventor of it. Apple is a tyrant. This company is shaking in their boots because another phone manufacturer came from behind and accelerated past them to become the number 1 mobile device manufacturer in the world. This is THE BOTTOM LINE. THIS is why we are seeing these lawsuits. Another example? 4th Quarter 2011, the Droid Razr Maxx outsold the iPhone 4S on Verizon. Shortly after that, Apple attempts to ban the sale of ALL Motorola phones based on some (bogus, broad) patent they have. Apple doesn’t want to innovate. They stopped innovating after the iPhone 4. Then when they ran out of ideas, they started copying everyone else, patenting existing technology and suing everyone who has already been using it for years. If you think Apple is so innovative, take a look at any article regarding iOS6. Almost every single thing they call a “feature” or an “innovation” is Already being done by none other than Android. They aren’t innovating anymore- They are playing catch-up, and suing anyone they can to try and keep their (falling) market share. People are seeing this, and ARE in fact jumping ship from them because people don’t just want to buy a good product. Obviously, they want to buy a good product from a Fair and Unobtrusive corporation. Apple wants to ban the sale of anything they can so you will be forced to buy an iPhone. The PEOPLE however, want freedom of Choice- Not choosing by FORCE.

RonMacGuy

LOL.  Wow James, interesting post.  Let me attempt to respond:

I may not know every single aspect of this case, but I see and hear about mostly one thing in the news about cellular phones, most- Apple suing Samsung. I have seen the photoshopped images that Apple conjured up trying to get judges to ban Samsung?s hardware.

Like the judge hasn’t asked to see and hold the devices in her hand.  Give me a break.  She knows exactly what each one looks like and feels like.

I have seen their patenting of rectangular devices with thin bezels with touch screens. Are you serious? How do you patent this?

Well, you apply for a patent, pay a lot of money, and wait a long time until a decision is made on if your idea is patentable or not.  So, the patent office grants Apple patents, and Apple is to blame?  Samsung could have done this themselves!!

I have seen them get awarded a patent for slide to unlock. Shouldn?t this be simply commonplace?

Well, obviously not, as Apple would not have been granted the protection if it were.  Is it not true that the slide to unlock feature has been with the Apple iPhone from the start?  Is it not true that no other phone at the time had anything like this?  So why is it wrong for Apple to patent this?  So just because James feels that “darn it, life’s not fair! Slide to unlock should be simply commonplace” then Apple doesn’t have the right to patent the idea?  Really?

Apple has a patent on unified search? And they got a Samsung phone banned because of it, right? Google practically invented search, and it was Google?s product (Android) on the phone that got it banned. Google has been doing search a WHOLE lot longer than Apple, but they patent existing technology, then basically sue the actual inventor of it.

Patent office determines what is existing technology and what isn’t.  If google didn’t patent their own ideas, then shame on them.

Apple is a tyrant.

Boo hoo.  Apple is mean.  Wahhhh.

This company is shaking in their boots because another phone manufacturer came from behind and accelerated past them to become the number 1 mobile device manufacturer in the world. This is THE BOTTOM LINE. THIS is why we are seeing these lawsuits.

This is just plain silly.  Have you seen Apple’s financial performance?  Have you seen their cash stash?  Shaking in their boots?  Please.

Another example? 4th Quarter 2011, the Droid Razr Maxx outsold the iPhone 4S on Verizon. Shortly after that, Apple attempts to ban the sale of ALL Motorola phones based on some (bogus, broad) patent they have.

Flat out lie.  Name your source of 4th Quarter 2011.  Here is my source that states that no droid outsold iPhone in Q4 2011.  Verizon Q4 phone sales  You see James, when you make stuff up, you lose all credibility.

Apple doesn?t want to innovate. They stopped innovating after the iPhone 4.

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

Then when they ran out of ideas, they started copying everyone else, patenting existing technology and suing everyone who has already been using it for years. If you think Apple is so innovative, take a look at any article regarding iOS6. Almost every single thing they call a ?feature? or an ?innovation? is Already being done by none other than Android. They aren?t innovating anymore- They are playing catch-up, and suing anyone they can to try and keep their (falling) market share.

Blah blah blah.  More whining.  android is awesome.  Blah blah blah.

People are seeing this, and ARE in fact jumping ship from them because people don?t just want to buy a good product.

Jumping ship?  All-Time Record iPhone, iPad and Mac Sales CUPERTINO, California?January 24, 2012 ... The Company sold 37.04 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 128 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 15.43 million iPads during the quarter, a 111 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 5.2 million Macs during the quarter, a 26 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 15.4 million iPods, a 21 percent unit decline from the year-ago quarter.

But hey, at least you acknowledge that Apple makes good products!!

RonMacGuy

Continuation…

Obviously, they want to buy a good product from a Fair and Unobtrusive corporation.

Like google?  LMFAO!!  Do you work for google?  Almost as mindless of a statement as my favorite ever from TMO - ‘...the declining and mostly irrelevant iPad.’

Apple wants to ban the sale of anything they can so you will be forced to buy an iPhone. The PEOPLE however, want freedom of Choice- Not choosing by FORCE.

Hmm, such an incorrect and emotionally charged ending, it’s not even worth responding to.

But have a great day!!

James

Well I wonder if this is a fanboy with Mac in his name? Ok dude, it wasn’t in Q4 2011. It was Q2 2012. I suppose since you like Apple that you’ve never made a mistake before?

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/06/12/analyst-motorolas-razr-maxx-outsells-iphone-4s-on-verizon-during-q2/

Read it and weep.

Apple did not invent slide to unlock. Have you ever slid something to unlock it? I think you have. It’s a gesture, and gestures should not be able to be patented. It’s frivolous.

Apple cannot compete. That is why they hit everyone and their mother with lawsuits over bullshit.

The patent office should have never let Apple have the patent on a rectangle. They should never have let them have a patent on a gesture. They should have never let them have a patent on searching from multiple sources- It’s been happening FAR before Apple ever thought to search for anything.

Regardless of what you may think, if Samsung coming up from behind and taking Apple’s position as the number one smartphone manufacturer didn’t scare them up, you’re wrong. Apple is suing Samsung simply because Samsung is it’s biggest competitor. If you can raise the Apple… I mean wool off your eyes, you could see that Apple is trying to stop competition, not “protect it’s IP”. (IP it shoul have never been able to patent at that)

Of course you would simply discard what I said about Apple not doing any real innovating anymore… And that iOS 6 is nothing but playing catch-up to Android… But whether you like it or not… That’s a fact as well.

I don’t have to give any evidence as far as who is jumping ship dude- You have right in front of you, a few people that have been all Apple, all the way, putting them down because of their sorry business practices.

Fanboy.

Perry Clease

Is there anyone above the emotional age of 15 who uses the word “fanboy”

Johnny Doe

Oh you must be one too

RonMacGuy

“Read it and weep”?!?!?  “Oh, you must be one too”?!?!?  You guys are just so adorable.

James, did you really just quote droid-life.com like it is was an unbiased source?  Written by a guy named “TIm-o-tato” who uses terms like “uber-popular”?  You do realize that this isn’t actually based on data yet, right?  Quarter is just now over.  It’s some guy looking at data and extrapolating a result.  But even if they do pass Apple this quarter - then hey, cool.  You see, I may have a name of RonMacGuy and I may prefer Apple equipment, but I also have a Windows PC at home, I use a Windows PC at work, and I have no issue with Samsung or Google or Motorola or Android.  Competition is good.  Actually, I do have an issue with Samsung in so far as they blatantly copy technology and hope to get away with it.  But, I do like Google Maps and I have friends that work at Motorola.  I’m glad Motorola is finally coming back after being seriously damaged by Apple in the smart phone arena.

I am an Apple shareholder, and am just thrilled with their stock price right now.  I also own Motorola stock.  So no, I am not some mindless Apple drone.  You, on the other hand, come barreling in here as an obvious Apple hater, throwing misinformation and general whining all around.  So, I simply called you out on it.  Nothing personal, unlike your attacks.  But I’m a big boy - I can take it.

Obviously, Apple has not released a 4G iPhone yet, and so no doubt will take a hit in sales accordingly.  That’s OK - they have tons of other stuff to keep them growing in revenue and profit.  Unlike google who only needs to focus on advertising and developing android, Apple has to continually innovate on all-in-one Macs i.e. iMacs, ultra books i.e. MacBook Airs and MacBook Pros, Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Apple TV, Mac OS-X, iPads, iPods, and iTunes, in addition to iOS.  Oh, but you give them no credit for all of that extra stuff that they do, do you?  But when the next iPhone comes out, you do realize how well it is going to do?  Or maybe you don’t.  As my buddy Bosco would say here, how about a little wager?

You just sound so whiny when you complain about the patent office.  Trivializing Apple’s intellectual property (patent on a rectangle) just shows how little you really know.  It is obviously well beyond that.  It is so ironic that you are arguing against Apple in an article entitled “Judge Shoots Down Samsung?s 12 Summary Judgement Requests”.  Do you understand what this means?  Do you realize what it says about Samsung?

I am not simply discarding anything you say.  But you can’t generalize about Apple not doing any real innovating anymore when you look at the MacBook lines, Mac OS-X, iPad.  It just comes across as desperation.

For everyone person “putting down their Apple products because of their sorry business practices” there are 100 that are learning the pure joy of Apple products.  Just look at Apple’s performance.  You are extraordinarily short-sighted.

RonMacGuy

Apple did not invent slide to unlock. Have you ever slid something to unlock it? I think you have. It?s a gesture, and gestures should not be able to be patented. It?s frivolous.
Apple cannot compete. That is why they hit everyone and their mother with lawsuits over bullshit.

Sorry, I just can’t help myself here.  This quote is absolutely hysterical.

So, James here thinks that Apple didn’t invent slide to unlock because we’ve all slid some physical device to unlock something.  Gestures should not be able to be patented he says.  Wow.  OK, well, given today’s laws about software patents, Apple did invent slide to unlock from a software perspective.  You can whine about if it should be allowed, but the law is pretty darn clear about it.  Apple did invent it.  Your argument would state that no one should have been able to patent a mouse trap because we’ve all killed mice before - the action of a spring loaded metal bar crushing the scull of a mouse is simply a gesture/motion that we’ve all done already when we hit a mouse over the head with a shovel.

How old are you James, 10?  I mean, really?

James

I never said Apple made a bad product. I believe they make a great product. Now, if they would use that product to Compete instead of using their (awfully) broad patents that should have never been granted to try and sue their competition out of business, that would be nice. I only speak of their telephone, I don’t speak of any of their other products here, because I have never used one, and now, I never will. I am not an investor, and I don’t have any interest in Apple from any monetary standpoint. I am one of the general public, and was unbiased when I found out about all these lawsuits they are throwing around. I just saw what I saw (from many sources, not just one), formed an opinion, and reacted to it. Whether you like it or not, a LOT of people have the same opinion as I do about Apple and their tyrannous business practices in the smartphone division, and their Stock that you have such an interest in WILL start to fall because of it. I posted a link from One source (droid life) and there are many more out there that are saying the same thing. If you have such an interest in Apple, you might want to pay attention to what people are saying here. It’s Opinion that controls the value of any stock, not patents and their bullies, nor the stock holders. If enough of the public sees Apple as a scumbag of a company, your stock is going to start reflecting it… So while you are sitting here laughing, it’s going to come to a point where your stock starts reflecting what thousands of people all over the internet are saying about Apple. Regardless of how “amazing” or “wonderful” YOU think Apple is, WE (the general public) are shifting Our opinion of your company, whereas before we had a GOOD one. So pay attention, mister stock holder. In the end it’s the little people like me that will decide whether you rise or whether you fall.

zewazir

Frankly, James, I doubt your opinion of Apple Corp. has “shifted” one iota. You come across as yet one more typical Apple-hating troll.

Again, the subject of this article is about SAMSUNG suing Apple, NOT about Apple suing Samsung or anyone else. And Samsung’s claims against Apple are, seemingly, not going well in the courts. Yet, still, you make Apple out to be the bad guy.

If you don’t like patent law, take it up with those who make those laws, rather than those who operate their businesses under them.  Slide-to-unlock is a software related intellectual patent that Apple came up with first.  No other phone had it BEFORE Apple put it on their very first iPhone.  It was and is one of many features that made the iPhone unique.  Now you come in and, despite the law saying otherwise, claim Apple should not defend this piece of innovation because you use metal use metal slide locks on your storage shed or some similar situation?  Excuse me, but there is a SLIGHT difference between a brass slide lock, and writing SOFTWARE to make a GESTURE that simulates the physical aspect of sliding a lock to release it.  Is sliding a lock to release it new?  No.  Is writing software to simulate a physical-world action to apply it to a touch screen control system new?  Well, it was when Apple applied it to the iPhone. You act as though Chrysler has no business patenting the features of their mini-van because Ogg invented the wheel 20,000 years ago.  That argument is ridiculous.  Under that view, NOTHING could be patented because everything in the world is, in one way or another, based on previous ideas.

Is Apple a perfect company?  No.  They have been caught out more than once infringing on patents or copyrighte of other companies and made to pay. And that is how it should be when someone steals the ideas of another to make better profits.  OTOH, Samsung is no lily-white saint when it comes to respecting intellectual property either, nor is Motorola, RIM, or even Kellogg. When intellectual property is infringed, it deserves to be protected, whether one likes the company which owns said IP or not.

If you don’t want to buy Apple products, fine.  Until the federal government comes up with an excuse to interfere with individual choice in the smart phone market, we are all free to choose which we believe to be best for our purposes. But don’t bother with the “used to like Apple, but don’t anymore because they are evil” mantra.  It’s been WAY overused.

(BTW: phone sales from a single service provider hardly reflects the entirety of the market….especially when the referenced statistic is A: premature, and B: written by an Android-centric “analyst” with an obvious agenda.)

James

I didn’t day it had shifted. I said it is shifting. You have people right here on this post that have been die hard Apple people,  that see how absurd apple has become. Don’t act like it’s just me. And speaking of agendas, you have one, don’t you, investor? If my opinions are moot because of my obvious agenda to tell the truth about a company desperate to keep market share in the smart phone market, then so are yours.

RonMacGuy

James, I’m assuming you are referring to me as “investor” - just realize that the previous post was written by zewazir, not me.

I am actually going to compliment you on a well written post (7:44 AM).  You make some very good points there.  I have never said that your opinions are moot - I have simply been addressing your more outrageous comments with counter arguments.  zewazir points out the flaws in your patent comments as I have been, so I won’t revisit.  Apple is totally in their rights to pursue legal action.  I am sure they are weighing the costs/benefits of such legal action, and I am sure it has to do with a lot more than what we know or see. Loss of customers who don’t like Apple’s lawsuits is part of their cost analysis.  Obviously, hurting the competition is part of the benefit.  I have said before that Samsung is being hurt more so by the loss of component business with Apple than they will lose via the lawsuits.  They have lost billions of dollars of revenue by Apple switching away from them for displays, ICs, etc.  All so they can copy Apple IP.  Well, Samsung executives will realize the pain of that decision for many years to come.

If you have such an interest in Apple, you might want to pay attention to what people are saying here. It?s Opinion that controls the value of any stock, not patents and their bullies, nor the stock holders. If enough of the public sees Apple as a scumbag of a company, your stock is going to start reflecting it?

I do pay attention to what people are saying, and it does weigh on my investment decisions.  But let me counter with something - Your average person who is buying a smart phone for the first time most likely doesn’t read the tech news and most likely doesn’t follow patent law.  That average person will talk to friends and family about what phone they like.  They will then go to a store and ask some questions and listen to a Verizon person or an AT&T person.  God forbid, if they know my friend Bosco here, he will convince them to not buy Apple for any reason!!  Or, they may just go online and pick a phone because it is the color they want or it’s the size they want or they want super fast 4G or they want nice long battery life.  Then they buy.  I would discount your contention that there is a huge wave of people who hate Apple more and more as the day goes on.  They may buy Motorola or they may buy Samsung or they may buy Apple, but they will buy more on what they need and what they hear from others than on whether or not there are lawsuits pending.  Actually, it probably goes the other way - they are hearing that Apple is winning the lawsuits and that Samsung is losing the lawsuits and that may make people hate Apple less and hate Samsung more.  Which, I’m sure, is also part of Apple’s costs/benefits analysis.

If you stick around James, you will learn that a lot of us here may prefer Apple but we are not blind followers.  Apple has its share of issues, no doubt, just as Samsung, Google, Motorola, etc.  Is Apple evil in its ways?  Sure, sometimes.  It’s all about business and making the most money.  If you don’t grow in revenues and profits, you die.  Every decision Apple makes (and any other major corporation) should be focused on that, or they won’t succeed.

So while you are sitting here laughing, it?s going to come to a point where your stock starts reflecting what thousands of people all over the internet are saying about Apple. Regardless of how ?amazing? or ?wonderful? YOU think Apple is, WE (the general public) are shifting Our opinion of your company, whereas before we had a GOOD one. So pay attention, mister stock holder. In the end it?s the little people like me that will decide whether you rise or whether you fall.

Thousands of people all over the internet have been saying nasty things about Apple for decades.  This isn’t new.  There are thousands of people who hate Apple so much for whatever reason that they will never buy an Apple product ever.  But I’m not worried about thousands.  There are MILLIONS of people buying Apple products.  A lot of these people are fanboys or diehards that have been supporting Apple for years, even knowing how much profit Apple makes and how much of a premium they make on their products.  We don’t care.  We feel the joy of using Apple products is worth it.  But more importantly, there are MILLIONS of new buyers - people who hear how great Apple products are, and they go out, buy, and then realize how wonderful it is.  Grandmas and kids and teachers and doctors and lawyers and pilots and government officials and ...  Even Obama has one!!  grin

So unless your thousands become millions, I do chuckle a bit at your threats to Apple.  Sorry.  But hey, stick around, you do bring a unique perspective here.

James

Thousands it might be presently, but if the bad press keeps up it will end up millions. If you think backwards in any revolution, it all stats with One voice.

RonMacGuy

What bad press?  The press that Apple is winning its lawsuits?  The press that Samsung is losing theirs?  The press that Apple products are awesome and they have had record over record quarterly financial gains since who-knows-when?  The press that says that no one can build a tablet to compete with iPad?  The press that says Apple has basically set the bar for ultra books?  The press that people in general love the Apple ecosystem?

Given Apple’s momentum, I personally don’t see your revolution.  I may be wrong, but I don’t think I am.  Even if they take a slight hit on the iPhone front this quarter, they are still tops in tablets, ultrabooks, and all-in-ones, and with potential imminent releases of smaller iPad, new iPhone, new iMacs, and Apple televisions, I have no doubt that Apple’s top-line and bottom-line growth will continue.  And the new iPhone this fall will sell millions in the release weekend.

Your “call to arms” here with all the “it all starts with one voice” comments fall either on deaf ears or on such a small number of ears who may agree with you that it hardly matters.

Meeting up with an old friend tonight who is visiting.  Via texting I noticed that my iPhone Messages for him went from green 6 months ago to blue now.  This indicates that he is using an iPhone.  So I ask him, “Jeff?  Is that an iPhone that you are using now?”  And his response, and I am serious - this is exactly word for word, typos and all, was “Yes, was so anti apple, but now love the iPod, ipad, and iPhone over droid (specially on sprint)”.

I doubt that you will believe me, and I wish that I could prove it to you, but I can’t.  Frankly, it pains me to retype it with so many typographical errors, but that is letter for letter how he wrote it.  Not even sure how his iPhone even allowed him to lowercase ‘ipad’ but it did somehow.  In any event, here is a guy who left android and now loves iDevices.  Didn’t care about the lawsuits or how evil Apple is.  And, HIS ‘one voice’ will tell others how great it is, and they will follow.  There are revolutions on both sides, James.  I just think that ours will win.  Last quarter Apple sold over 35 million iPhones and 11.8 million iPads.  Let’s see how they do this quarter.  And next quarter.  And next…

James

Regardless of it’s sales in the present, people are going to be disappointed when other camps pull out their old phones to tout that their phones have been doing what the new iPhone 5 finally started doing for apple… And half of it’s new"features” are just copying Android. Or maybe more than half. It’s funny how Steve jobs bragged about a stealing ideas from people, yet his company shamelessly sues anyone having anything close to what they have. It’s called hypocrisy.

RonMacGuy

Last message here for me.  If you are just looking at individual features you are entirely missing the point.  The ecosystem of my iPad, my iPhone, my iMac, my wife’s iPhone, and my daughters’ iPod Touches can not be touched by android.  You are speaking from a purely smart phone perspective, and that’s fine since that is what you know.  But since that is all you know, you are missing the benefits of the entire ecosystem here.

Won’t argue the whole “who’s copying whom” thing - I’d love to see you list out the half of the features that are just copying android.  Or maybe more than half.  Really?  Talk about generalizing…

Stick around James, I enjoy the debating.  A lot more interesting than our other “debater” here.

Well

At least he didn’t argue that they are hypocrites

James

I am not simply trying to counter what you told me here about your experience with the friend who switched to an iPhone, and I wasn’t even going to respond to it, because as I said before, Apple makes a great product- But this really happened to me today too… I was sitting at lunch, eating some BBQ and the waitress saw my phone (A Galaxy Nexus- I bought it before they got banned) and asked what kind of phone it was. I told her, and then she told me the strangest thing… She said she had an iPhone. I said “Really, don’t get me started..”  She then said “I had a droid and switched to the iPhone, and I hate the iPhone!” I asked her to marry me at which time she told me her name. lol. Seriously, it happens both ways. I am sure I would love Apple products if I could just bring myself to put money into a company that is so bent on stopping competition instead of innovating as they say they do. As I said before, I just wish they would stop wasting thousands of hours and millions of dollars’ worth of lawyers’ fees, and take that money and make a product that will go head to head with the competition, instead of trying to sue them out of business. Whether you will admit it or not, the patents Apple has are broad, and probably should have never been issued. One last thing..

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/150902/apple-could-see-u-s-import-ban-following-itc-review-of-motorola-patent-win

If you read that, you will see where Motorola has even a slight chance of banning US imports of the iPhone and iPad. Not sure if the later story is in there, but immediately after Apple realized it could very well see a ban, it immediately petitioned the court accusing of Motorola of patent abuse…. Seriously, Apple? You have a lot of nerve. If anyone is guilty of patent abuse, it’s you.

zewazir

If you read that, you will see where Motorola has even a slight chance of banning US imports of the iPhone and iPad. Not sure if the later story is in there, but immediately after Apple realized it could very well see a ban, it immediately petitioned the court accusing of Motorola of patent abuse?. Seriously, Apple? You have a lot of nerve. If anyone is guilty of patent abuse, it?s you.

It could well be patent abuse.  The patent under purview falls under FRAND, and as such, should not be allowed as a cause for banning a product under current patent and FRAND laws. Additionally, Apple’s claim is that Moto is denying Apple proper use of the FRAND patent, which is, under FRAND laws, pretty much the definition of patent abuse.

Do you even know what patent abuse is?

In short, Moto is suing Apple for using a FRAND patent w/o Moto’s permission.  Apple’s response is claiming that Moto is refusing to contract their FRAND patent under the same use agreements that Moto has given to other companies.

James

Awe, poor apple is the victim of someone treating them unfairly. I’d say they deserved it after the barrage of lawsuits they put against other corporations over their patents they should have never got in the first place. I’m just saying that None of this would have ever happened had Apple not started the patent wars. They deserve everything they get.

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