Microsoft's breakup overturned!

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    Posted: 28 June 2001 07:49 PM

    Microsoft’s appeal has been decided partially in favor of the company .  The company’s breakup has been handed back to a lower court, but the appellate court upheld the fact that the company was a monopoly and had abused its power.

    Thoughts?

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    Bryan
    The Mac Observer

    Microsoft’s tyranny lies not in their success, but in the way they achieved and maintain that success.

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bryan on 2001-06-28 14:13 ]</font>

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    Favorite (but less relevant than it used to be) Quote: Microsoft’s tyranny lies not in its success, but in the way it achieved and maintains that success.

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 10:40 AM #1

    On 2001-06-28 13:26, Bryan wrote:
    Microsoft’s appeal has been gone partially in favor of the company .  The company’s breakup has been handed back to a lower court, but the appellate court upheld that that company was a monopoly and had abused its power.

    Thoughts?

    The over zealousness of the criminal justice system is its downfall.  Lets face it, the only reason Microsoft was not broken up is because that judge had one too many irrational breakdowns that made him seem biased.  If the guy was smart he would have been able to control his emotions and also have conducted a fair trial.  I think MS should be broken up and that anyone who thinks they don’t abuse their monopoly power is smokin something.  It is only a matter of time, in my opinion.  It may be a long time though.  That is the second downfall is how slowwww the justice system is.

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  • Posted: 28 June 2001 10:41 AM #2

    So, The court reverses the breakup of Microsoft, eh?

    This is a sad day indeed. Now the case will drag on even longer than it already has. It’s already taken too long as it is. It really isn’t that complicated. Micro$oft has and continues to leverage it’s power and position. The courts continue to reveal their antiquity. The panel of appellate judges are clearly dinosaurs and hasn’t got a clue about technology and how address these issues. Of course there is more to the case than many might read or post, but the fact still remains, Bill Gates, the “robber baron” of Silicon Valley continues his campaign of conquest unfazed and unabated. He hopes to assimilate us all. It’s already happening. Once everyone is so dependent upon M$, their products and services we loose all hope.

    You see, that’s the problem, we are like a team of animals under one whip… We go where M$ says we go. I don’t have to list all the things that M$ is doing to convince you because you can see it for yourself. However, make no mistake… If everything is run from Redmond, we are all in trouble. There is absolutely no way any single company should be allowed to control such power (and information) on the scale that it does. This decision has only given M$ more time to prepare and entrench itself. Just like cancer. Just like the Borg. IMHO, the only remedies I see are the following:

    1. Break up the company and staff it with non-M$ management.

    2. Take windows away and open up the entire code base, since over 90% of computers run M$ products what’s the big secret.? It makes it the standard, right?

    3. Auction off the OS to another company unaffiliated with M$. (M&M Mars perhaps?)

    Anything, just get the OS out of the hands of the regime at Redmond…

    Remember, this is a highly charged rant.. I need to have some time to ponder the decision and maybe post something a bit more thought out.
    Still, I’m not surprised… Just annoyed.

    Cheers,

    Ed M.

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 10:47 AM #3

    Be afraid, be very afraid…

    This proves that the cancer in our Industry will remain unchecked until the buying public gets informed and enlightened about what is about to be forced upon them.

    Microsoft is spending over a Billion to promote the Trojan Horse that is the new Windows eXPerience.  These products have hooks to the .NET scam that will give total control to Microsoft. Hailstorm and pasport linked together with your personal and private information (including your credit card information) all to be safely stored on Microsoft’s “secure” servers in Redmond.

    The Truth is out there… tell a friend!

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 11:02 AM #4

    I wonder how many of those judges can be linked in some way to Redmond (i.e. Micro$oft). It would be interesting to see if any of those relics have vested interests directly with M$ or if there is some obscure connection. As for Retro’s remark about Jackson screwing up… I ask you one question.

    Does it make M$ any less guilty? Should the trial continue to drag on until we finally get a robot-nonemotional-judge to come to the same remedy that was already handed down? Should we let M$ continue to dig itself in and spread the cancer even more? Simply because of irrational technicalities? We are all humans with feelings… That’s the problem with the relics that reside in the courts; None of them seem to have any passion for what they do. The judicial system continues to be shrouded in antiquity, based on “old world” principals that have little application in today’s’ society. Now, it’s beginning to show signs of rigor mortise…

    Ed M.

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 11:08 AM #5

    On 2001-06-28 13:40, Retro wrote:
    I think MS should be broken up and that anyone who thinks they don’t abuse their monopoly power is smokin something.

    I agree that MS uses its OS monopoly to gain an unfair advantage in other markets. I think the solution is to force the company to offer consumers the choice of competing technologies—preinstalling IE and Netscape, and in XP, Media player, QuickTime and RealAudio. But I don’t think the company needs to be broken up.

    That is the second downfall is how slowwww the justice system is.

    Now you’re steppin’ on my toes. Don’t knock it until you can come up with a better system yourself. (The same goes for Ed M, who called the Appellate judges relics. They’ve likely forgotten more about Law than you and I will ever learn.)

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    The Mac Observer

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ricky on 2001-06-28 14:11 ]</font>

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    The Mac Observer

         
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    Posted: 28 June 2001 11:10 AM #6

    There are some who say that the Sherman Antitrust Act is itself a relic of an older time.

    As for the judges:  we can’t have any cloud hanging over this decision in any way.  For Microsoft to be broken up under the auspices of a judge who behaved inappropriately is not the right way to solve this.  Microsoft is still guilty of violating the law, and it is now going to be up to another judge to decide the remedy.  That new judge *might* also decide to break the company up.

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    Editor - The Mac Observer

    Favorite (but less relevant than it used to be) Quote: Microsoft’s tyranny lies not in its success, but in the way it achieved and maintains that success.

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 12:45 PM #7

    [[[They’ve likely forgotten more about Law than you and I will ever learn.]]]

    And? What’s your point?

    Wasn’t it William Shakespeare who suggested we do away with all lawyers?
    I wonder why? If I’m not mistaken Socrates felt the same way. He was a Logician wasn’t he? Hmmm…

    I wonder when logic, reason and critical thinking come into play? The courts continue to erroneously base their subjective “opinions” using a pseudo-objective approach;  Almost as if it’s always going to come down to a crap-shoot to see if one is lucky enough to get a judge who might favor or disfavor a particular case or ruling? Still based on someone’s opinion… Which by the way are prejudicial and often emotionally derived.

    So, is anyone gonna tell me that Micro$oft is any “less guilty” because of Jackson’s “misconduct”? Anyone? Likewise, how about posting some remedies of your own.

    Ed M.

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 01:29 PM #8

    I HATE Microsoft, with the exception of the Macintosh Business Unit, however to say that the courts should do our bidding because we know something is true is to overthrough the entire justice system. Think about it this way, you are acused of a crime. When you go to trial the judge continualy says that he disagrees with you, that he thinks that what you did was wrong, before issuing a a rulling, and pays no attention to what you are saying. Would you think that you had a fair trial? Would you want an impartial judge? Should Microsoft not have those same rights just because we don’t like them? If the law does not apply to them then it does not apply to us. I am reminded of a quote on the New York State Supreme Court Building in New York City, “The true adminitrsation of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 01:45 PM #9

    The judicial system may be the best in the world, but it seems like lately it has become more corrupt.  When murderers can get high $ attorneys to help acquit them and poorer folk are stuck with Public defenders, there is _something_ wrong with the system.

    The funny thing is that, no matter how much money MS paid for their lawyers, they were not able to overturn the fact that they violated the Sherman act.  Now that is significant.

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  • Posted: 28 June 2001 02:33 PM #10

    Hi all,

    The thing which confused me at the time of the original case was that judge Jackson (the guy who, by then, knew MOST about M$ and its shonky business practice) was considered wrong for expressing the results of his deliberations…

    So, if I know, I am not allowed to say anything, and we (the ignorant masses) are entitled to prattle away forever…brilliant system…

    The fact is, Billy G. (or at least, M$) gave a BIG wad of cash to one Mr. GW Bush’s campaign fund for the presidental race…now, what do you think that was for ?

    Elias.
    Those who seek power should be denied access to it

         
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    Posted: 28 June 2001 02:42 PM #11

    A thought, regarding judges: What are two of the least trusted proffesions in our world?
    a) Lawyers
    b) Politicians
    So why do we put so much trust into judges when they are, in essence, just Lawyers that have become politicians? Just a thought.

    Also, for the person that insisted we not knock the legal system until we can come up with something better: It doesn’t work that way, here in my country (USA). Here we have the right to complain as loud as we want, especially when it is in the hopes that enough people will hear it, and help us change what has become a very outmoded and corrupt system, for the better. We, as individuals have little power to change the “system”. But many of us together, as a collective voice of dissent, have far greater power.

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  • Posted: 28 June 2001 06:04 PM #12

    I work at a newspaper. And as I do my work tonight, I talk to a lot of people (editors, reporters, etc) about what they think of the whole thing. And I hear stuff like ...

    * Well, thank God nothing’s gonna happen to Microsoft, because I like all my software bundled. (huh?)
    * If there was no microsoft, there’d be no computers - keep in mind, half of this business uses Macs, however, they are all very old.
    * Microsoft is very important for all of us, because we need what they have.

    With people like this in the world, we should all be very afraid. It saddens me that people are so misinformed.

    Scott

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    Scott
    Pittsburgh, PA
    God bless our troops in Iraq and everywhere.

    GO STEELERS. GO PIRATES. and GO PENGUINS (ummm, well ...)

         
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    Posted: 28 June 2001 06:11 PM #13

    That’s scary, Scott.  How do you stay sane working with pinheads like that?

    Do these people like their Windows machines?  Do they like working with Windows?  Do they like their Windows software?

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    Editor - The Mac Observer

    Favorite (but less relevant than it used to be) Quote: Microsoft’s tyranny lies not in its success, but in the way it achieved and maintains that success.

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 06:21 PM #14

    On 2001-06-28 17:42, MOSiX Man wrote:
    ...for the person that insisted we not knock the legal system until we can come up with something better: It doesn’t work that way, here in my country (USA).

    Point taken. For the record, it is very much my country as well. And in my never so humble opinion, it’s the best government in the world, and the best man has constructed. Ever.

    Let me be more precise, though. By “don’t knock it ‘till you can improve it” I mean that before denouncing the system we should educate ourselves about it.

    Why does it matter that those judges know so much about Law, Ed? Because this country’s foundation—its Constitution and its Bill of Rights, the most sacred and solemn documents in this nation’s history—was built by Lawyers. It was built by smart [UNDERSTATEMENT] men who knew a lot of Law and a lot of history. There are good reasons for our legal system’s design [UNDERSTATEMENT!]. And MOSiX, you’re right: one remarkable quality of our government’s structure is that it can withstand tremendous assault from its citizens, perhaps even addressing some of their concerns, without crumbling.

    But as citizens it’s our responsibility to know the system we’re talking about before we criticize it. I’m just saying that those judges know more than I do, if about Law if not about technology.

     

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    —Ricky Spero
    Anchor, The Apple Weekly Report
    The Mac Observer

         
  • Posted: 28 June 2001 07:01 PM #15

    Bryan wrote:

    There are some who say that the Sherman Antitrust Act is itself a relic of an older time.

    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

    I’m not surprised that this happened.  I watched with increasing alarm as Jackson told everyone who pointed a mic’ at him that MS was evil and Gates was a lying control freak, and both had treated him and his court with the utmost contempt.  No matter that both allegations were demonstrably true - just watch the trial proceedings.  No matter that Jackson is a diehard unregulated-market conservative who was initially on Microsoft’s side.  The Appeals Court is right in the matter that Jackson blew it by appearing biased while the trial was still on.  This is not a victory for Microsoft, nor a defeat for the DoJ.  It’s a defeat for Jackson, who should have known better.

    As for why we should trust judges, that’s a fairly simple matter.  We can trust them because we can examine their work, and they know it.  The laws they interpret are a matter of public record; the transcripts of the trials and any evidence entered therein are matters of public record; and the judgements are matters of public record.  With this information in hand, their work can be argued, appealed, or mooted by legislative action.

    This is also why whole swaths of the work the Government produces (and, in some cases, subcontracts) cannot be copyrighted.  It’s entered into the public domain, so that there can be no restriction placed on the use, publication or dissemination of the information.  This is one of the great checks against the power of American public servants, if and only if the public (and various organizations acting on their behalf) makes some effort to actually check the work.

    The single greatest enemies of integrity are secrecy and lack of accountability.  The framers of the Constitution realized that when they set the government up the way they did.  (Also, when they set copyright law up the way they did, which another thing we are forgetting.  But that’s another rant. ).

     

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    James

    Dystopia, n: A utopia, in practice.