http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/18/state-of-the-itouch-jailbreak-slow-forward-progress/

My initial enthusiasm for the iPod Touch has cooled a bit now that they’re out in the wild, and people are encountering many difficulties in getting any of the more basic, non-SIM related hacks to work on the device. Much of the attraction for me in this device was the capability to use software (primarily games in my case) not included by Apple at some point. Now I’ve gone from thinking about getting one sooner to waiting, perhaps to next year at the earliest, if this trend turns out to hold. I’m not calling it yet, its obviously still early as the device technically “beat” its ship date, but its definitely not proceeding at the same pace as the iPhone, or even the aTV, in terms of being hacked to support any significant extra functions.

I’m not trying to argue as to whether or not Apple should just leave the device wide open, its obvious they should not, but since their last two major new products, aTV and iPhone, ran relatively robust versions of OSX out of the box (since slightly butchered on the aTV side if you upgrade to 1.1) underneath their simplified interface, one hoped they would not take any extra measures to foil people hacking it for personal reasons.

Anyway, just curious what people think here, if they feel it will at all affect iTouch sales (yes I’ve decided thats what I’m calling it) or if the vast majority of its potential market could care less.

Gee, I dunno… I was gonna buy one to play music with it. Maybe look at pictures. Maybe browse the web. Maybe watch video. Seems enough for me.

How many millions of iPods has Apple sold now? Do we think most of these people wanted to add functionality that wasn’t already there?

Most iPod owners I know find it challenging enough to create playlists and keep their players synced, let alone hack it to grow functionality.

Will a lack of extensibility slow iPod sales? No, I don’t think so. If anything will slow iPod sales, it will be that point of critical mass where “cool” becomes “tool”.

It happens to every mass market product. Sell too many and they become passй. The kids move on.

I say bad, but that might be a selfish desire.

Multi-touch systems really excite me, and I think the sooner we see multi-touch systems in the wild being explored and designed, the quicker it will be that I could buy a $2000 iMac with a touch screen instead of a $3500 Wacom Cintiq.

The lack of “hackability”  does not have any impact on my thoughts on the iPod Touch.

When the iPhone came out, I wanted an iPhone without the phone.  The iPod touch is almost that and then some.

My wish list included just the standard iPod funcationality and my dream list was WiFi.  I really did not believe a wide screen touch iPod would include WIFi, but it does.

At some point I do plan to get an iPod Touch because of what it is.

later,

Andy

Re: Hard to Hack iTouch=Good or Bad?

I do not know about hacking, but Apple definitely should have included some of the useful iPhone applications on the iPod Touch, such as an email client.

[quote author=“DaiMac”]http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/18/state-of-the-itouch-jailbreak-slow-forward-progress/

My initial enthusiasm for the iPod Touch has cooled a bit now that they’re out in the wild, and people are encountering many difficulties in getting any of the more basic, non-SIM related hacks to work on the device. Much of the attraction for me in this device was the capability to use software (primarily games in my case) not included by Apple at some point. Now I’ve gone from thinking about getting one sooner to waiting, perhaps to next year at the earliest, if this trend turns out to hold. I’m not calling it yet, its obviously still early as the device technically “beat” its ship date, but its definitely not proceeding at the same pace as the iPhone, or even the aTV, in terms of being hacked to support any significant extra functions.

I’m not trying to argue as to whether or not Apple should just leave the device wide open, its obvious they should not, but since their last two major new products, aTV and iPhone, ran relatively robust versions of OSX out of the box (since slightly butchered on the aTV side if you upgrade to 1.1) underneath their simplified interface, one hoped they would not take any extra measures to foil people hacking it for personal reasons.

Anyway, just curious what people think here, if they feel it will at all affect iTouch sales (yes I’ve decided thats what I’m calling it) or if the vast majority of its potential market could care less.

I disagree with this. Most companies become complacent with their success. Look at Sony, and Microsoft. There is not a cooler music player on the market then the iPod Touch. That will keep the cash registers ringing. With kids cool is not about having something unique, but instead about having something that is desired and that other kids have. Kids do not want to stand out, but to blend.

Preventing the iPod Touch from exploiting Wi-FI to its full potential leaves the door open for others to add this functionality.

[quote author=“coaten”]

Will a lack of extensibility slow iPod sales? No, I don’t think so. If anything will slow iPod sales, it will be that point of critical mass where “cool” becomes “tool”.

It happens to every mass market product. Sell too many and they become passй. The kids move on.

I’d say it’s a bad sign. I’ve been hoping that Apple is simply holding back the iPhone and iPod Touch temporarily for business/marketing purposes, and that they intend to open the door to third-party developers at some point. If they’re actively trying to prevent tinkerers from doing more with it, though, it suggests that they have a different agenda.

The iPod and iPhone have awesome potential, but without opening them up as platforms….it’s just not interesting to me. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there’s no way any one company will ever address 100% of my needs. Apple has the technology to make the PDA of my dreams, but without real third-party app support, it’s nothing to me.

For now that’s fine, of course — Apple will sell these things as-is, no doubt, and for now they really DON’T want people to think of it as a PDA. But again, I was hoping these devices would become something more eventually, and now it’s starting to look like Apple is simply hellbent on total control, which is a very bad thing.

Or maybe we’re reading far too much into these little snags the hackers are hitting…

Poll on iTouch Hackability

I think it should be totally hackable, but mostly because I don’t want an iPod, what I really want is
a modern Newton.

That’s a reasonable response. I agree, there is not a cooler player on the market, though both Samsung and iRiver have products that come close.

But I would maintain that at some point iPods will become, in the vernacular, “so yesterday”.

Unless, that is, Apple can manage to make them continually more compelling to buy. This would be a very big ask if Apple hadn’t tied iTunes so closely to the iPod because, while many of us can find a way to break DRM, many/most consumers will just stick with iPods for the sake of continuity.

Sony’s Walkman was an immensely popular product but it fell by the wayside because of the changing nature of music consumption.

And there lies perhaps the greatest danger to the iPod - not being ready for the market when a paradigm shift occurs in the nature of content comsumption. Of course, the iPhone provides a conduit through which a new form of consumption can occur, so Apple has hedged its bets.

However, hypothetically speaking, if the planets aligned differently tomorrow and somebody produced a device that eclipsed the iPod and it took hold of the market’s imagination, such a product could turn Apple’s fortunes.

And then the kids will move on.

[quote author=“Terrin”]I disagree with this. Most companies become complacent with their success. Look at Sony, and Microsoft. There is not a cooler music player on the market then the iPod Touch. That will keep the cash registers ringing. With kids cool is not about having something unique, but instead about having something that is desired and that other kids have. Kids do not want to stand out, but to blend.

Preventing the iPod Touch from exploiting Wi-FI to its full potential leaves the door open for others to add this functionality.

[quote author=“coaten”]

Will a lack of extensibility slow iPod sales? No, I don’t think so. If anything will slow iPod sales, it will be that point of critical mass where “cool” becomes “tool”.

It happens to every mass market product. Sell too many and they become passй. The kids move on.

Re: Poll on iTouch Hackability

[quote author=“esegre”]I think it should be totally hackable, but mostly because I don’t want an iPod, what I really want is
a modern Newton.

Thats all I’m asking for

[quote author=“coaten”]This would be a very big ask if Apple hadn’t tied iTunes so closely to the iPod because, while many of us can find a way to break DRM, many/most consumers will just stick with iPods for the sake of continuity.

Not to dispute your point, because I mostly agree, but at least the iTunes audio DRM is incredibly weak, given that to “break” it all one needs to do is burn purchased songs to a CD, reimport them with Toast, and iTunes is never the wiser.  The video DRM is a bit more robust, of course.

But yeah, maybe what needs to happen is an Apple PDA separate from this device, more geared towards the “power” user. Given enough features and a more usable approach to adding 3rd party apps (because some things just will never work through the Web, as well as they do outside it), I’d gladly pay as much or beyond the iPhone 8GB’s original price point.

Too bad though, as it was so close to getting my $400 this year

Oh and the latest for those interested:
http://www.tuaw.com/category/hacks/

Even disassembling the device and directly reading the chips has so far failed to yield usable avenues for hacks

I’ll take a 21st century Newton, too.

Still have an MP 2100. It still wakes me up every morning. It still has the most rocking battery of any product I’ve ever owned.

[quote author=“coaten”]I’ll take a 21st century Newton, too.

Still have an MP 2100. It still wakes me up every morning. It still has the most rocking battery of any product I’ve ever owned.

I have a MP120 with OS 1.3 and I don’t use it for anything.  Right now I just switch out the batteries periodically, but otherwise it sits on a shelf.  I find my Palm IIIxe with OS 3.5 to be far more useful, though it is a newer product by about 4 years.  I would say that battery life on a Palm IIIxe probably gives the MP2100 a run for its money.  (It can last about 2 months on 2 AAA batts.)

Given the size of the touch, I think it would be a suitable replacement for the Palm, but I would miss the ability to install 3rd party apps, as I have a number of those installed on my Palm.  If my Palm IIIxe ever croaks, it will be a tough choice between getting another Palm device or an iPod touch.  If Apple would allow 3rd party apps on the touch, I think that would seal the deal.

[quote author=“FlatEric”]I would say that battery life on a Palm IIIxe probably gives the MP2100 a run for its money.  (It can last about 2 months on 2 AAA batts.)

I had used a MP2100 for a couple of years before replacing it with a Palm Tungsten T. While blowing away the Newton in terms of size, I much preferred the Newton OS which was (and imho still is) years beyond the Palm’s.

After a move, during which I didn’t charge the T for a couple weeks, the memory was completely wiped. I used the Palm as a standalone device and hadn’t synched in months. Nearly everything was lost. I never used it again.

Recently, I popped four AAs in the Newton to take a picture of it with the iPhone. Other than having to set the date, everything was as I had last left it. I actually transcribed info from the Newt to the iPhone that the Palm had lost.

I sure do miss me some Newton.   

Not that people can’t just go to TUAW and look at it themselves, but saw this after I woke up this morning:

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/25/apple-sends-takedown-notice-to-ipod-hackers-isp/

Interesting, while its a bit of a setback I think its perfectly understandable, see my comment on that link

Also, not complaining about the topic moving, but I have a completely irrational aversion to the IPO forums, hence not posting here originally

[quote author=“someToast”][quote author=“FlatEric”]I would say that battery life on a Palm IIIxe probably gives the MP2100 a run for its money.  (It can last about 2 months on 2 AAA batts.)

I had used a MP2100 for a couple of years before replacing it with a Palm Tungsten T. While blowing away the Newton in terms of size, I much preferred the Newton OS which was (and imho still is) years beyond the Palm’s.

After a move, during which I didn’t charge the T for a couple weeks, the memory was completely wiped. I used the Palm as a standalone device and hadn’t synched in months. Nearly everything was lost. I never used it again.

Recently, I popped four AAs in the Newton to take a picture of it with the iPhone. Other than having to set the date, everything was as I had last left it. I actually transcribed info from the Newt to the iPhone that the Palm had lost.

I sure do miss me some Newton. 

Well, you had the much improved version of the Newton OS.  2.1 was supposed to be leaps and bounds ahead of 1.3.  Mine has rather poor handwriting recognition   and I tend to get frustrated trying to do data entry.

Also, your Palm device is one of the newer ones.  My Palm IIIxe was one of the models that just took regular batteries as opposed to having an internal rechargeable battery and ran on the old Motorola DragonBall processor instead of an ARM-derived processor.  Was the Newton (any model including mine) leaps and bounds cooler than the Palms?  Absolutely.  Do I still prefer carrying the smaller device with longer battery life with me every day?  You bet ya.