[quote author=“MacKauai”][quote author=“Constable Odo”] RIM stock works far differently from Apple’s. If analysts say RIM will move, investors believe it and that’s all it takes. All the carrier announcements, upgrades and introductions that Apple has had in the last few weeks have done nothing positive for Apple’s stock
Someone here said a couple of months ago, that RIM may reach $200 before Apple. At the time, it sounded pretty absurd, but now I’m thinking there might be some possibility. If Apple sells lots of iPhones, RIM will ride up with Apple. If Apple goes down, it won’t affect RIM in any way. RIM is a one-legged stool against Apple’s three-legged stool and yet RIM’s stool has better stability. Go figure that one out.
Sure looks like another strong indicator that both stocks are being manipulated by market makers… one positively, one negatively…
Of course, it is also probably due in large part to the fact that most Wall Street insiders have used Crackberries for years now, and have a blind affection for the technology… similar to the “Dell can do no wrong” syndrome.
However, we may see a significant rise in AAPL s in spite of negative sentiments… ultimately, the numbers will indicate the huge demand for 3G iPhones and Macs.
I believe that comments regarding RIMMs performance compared to AAPLs merits a separate thread.
Many on AFB are puzzled or unnerved that Research in Motion’s stock is moving faster than Apple’s. I too believe that the iPhone will eventually prevail over the Blackberry, and if not, at least it’s design will become prevalent among all, but the cheapest, cell-phones in the market. I also see that Apple, unlike with the Macintosh back in 1984, is more aggressive in its pursuit of market share. It still innovates and therefore tries to get it’s business model across, but as Oppenheimer (?) stated during a conference, Apple is not wedded to a single business model. SJ at WWDC2008 confirmed that with the new pricing structure for the 3G iPhone.
But Apple is entering a market, full of large, experienced incumbents.
One of these, Research in Motion, recently grew it’s earnings by 118% in spite of the beginning of the iPhone onslaught. RiM also is sporting a rather lofty or cocky trailing PE of 62, compared to AAPLs PE of 36 and an earnings growth of 35%. Because of earnings growth, any investor would be more interested in RIMM rather than AAPL.
There is however the likelihood that RIMM will fall from Wall Street’s grace sooner than AAPL: analysts have been pretty good at pegging EPS for RIMM. In the past two years, RIMM has surprised no more than 10%, and in some rare cases even disappointed. AAPL has never surprised less than 8% and even up to 45%.
Eventually, Apple will be properly valued, once the (s)tools have been Darwin ed out . But RiM must do no mistake, since it has not been able to significantly beat expectation recently.
We also need to keep in mind that RIMM has fewer shares available. ( 563.8 M / 72% owned by institutions ) So, anyone wanting to buy a share of RIMM, they need to be willing to fight for it with their wallet.
[quote author=“sleepygeek”]Retards In Motion
The internet started with email. Then came the web. Email kept on growing.
Mobile internet started with email. Then came the web. Mobile email will keep on growing.
History repeats itself.
RIMM 2006-2008 = AAPL 2008-2010 ?
That’s too good to leave here.. someone, please DIGG this post
How the heck do you have resistance to a product that has yet to ship?
Morons.
What a load of bullshit:
One IT manager, in an interview with the imaginatively named ComputerWorld, expressed concern with the prospect of being able to deploy iPhone 3G on a large scale. The main problem is that the iPhone needs to be activated using a PC or Mac with iTunes installed. Good luck doing that hundreds of times in an efficient manner; wireless, over-the-air activation is much preferred.
Then you?ve got the typical IT Guy mentality, as expressed by another IT gent, of not trusting Apple?s ?controlling? nature. Open source, Linux everywhere, these are *my* stations not Apple?s or Microsoft?s, etc. If these guys are in charge of hundreds of PCs and/or Macs at a time, they feel they need to be in charge of what goes in and out from A to Z. With the iPhone 3G and its App Store, they necessarily need to cede some control.
So as attractive as push e-mail and Exchange support is, it may not be enough to convince Mr. IT.
1) The new iPhone will be activated in-store now apparently, or companies can remotely install applications and a preferences from a standard setup, just like they can with Blackberries right now. At least that’s my understanding.
2) Companies can set-up their own “App Stores” just for their employees, and limit what is downloadable to the device.
3) They “demand” open source? Open Source? Is Blackberry or Nokia or Windows Mobile Open Source?
4) Apple just gave the IT sweat armpit stinkaroos Exchange support, remote wipe, Cisco secure VPN connections, OTA syncing, etc etc.. there is nothing… NOTHING ... that Apple didn’t deliver with regard to demands made of it by enterprise.
CrunchGear: Morons in Motion. “Mr IT” is a dying breed, heading for an early death after spending his life drinking too much Jolt Cola and getting fat on pizza in the Eighties while trying to code in Fortran, Pascal, getting DOS to run Excel, and teaching his kid how to program in LOGO to control that funny little robot thing with a pen attached to it connected to an RS232 port. “Mr IT” is being superseded by Mr “Yes I can do that”, recently graduated from college, who grew up using a Mac, an iPod, and has an iPhone.
Hasta la vista Mr IT Man; you just got EOL’d. But don’t worry, you can take your IT hell with you into retirement by setting up a Vista-based home entertainment system that crashes, a Zune that won’t squirt, an XBox which will break every 3 months with the “red circle of death”, and a PC so ridden with viruses you’ll never get a free moment to get around to visiting the doctor for that check-up which would have revealed you’re at risk of a fatal coronary until its too late.
Best of all? When they do finally cart you off to the hospital, you’ll be seen by a doctor who will take X-Rays, and later examine on them on his iPhone.
Ahhh the sheer humiliation of it all. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
[quote author=“Tommo_UK”]
CrunchGear: Morons in Motion. “Mr IT” is a dying breed, heading for an early death after spending his life drinking too much Jolt Cola and getting fat on pizza in the Eighties while trying to code in Fortran, Pascal, getting DOS to run Excel, and teaching his kid how to program in LOGO to control that funny little robot thing with a pen attached to it connected to an RS232 port. “Mr IT” is being superseded by Mr “Yes I can do that”, recently graduated from college, who grew up using a Mac, an iPod, and has an iPhone.
Hasta la vista Mr IT Man; you just got EOL’d. But don’t worry, you can take your IT hell with you into retirement by setting up a Vista-based home entertainment system that crashes, a Zune that won’t squirt, an XBox which will break every 3 months with the “red circle of death”, and a PC so ridden with viruses you’ll never get a free moment to get around to visiting the doctor for that check-up which would have revealed you’re at risk of a fatal coronary until its too late.
Best of all? When they do finally cart you off to the hospital, you’ll be seen by a doctor who will take X-Rays, and later examine on them on his iPhone.
Ahhh the sheer humiliation of it all. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
Cruel but true!—Here is a quote i once read on a slashdot forum:
“Someday, historians will put Gates into proper context for the masses: the ruthless nerd for whom mediocrity was “good enough,” who thought business ethics were optional, and who plunged the world into the Dark Ages of Personal Computing. That history will be written on a Macintosh. And even Gates knows it.”
Then you?ve got the typical IT Guy mentality, as expressed by another IT gent, of not trusting Apple?s ?controlling? nature. Open source, Linux everywhere, these are *my* stations not Apple?s or Microsoft?s, etc. If these guys are in charge of hundreds of PCs and/or Macs at a time, they feel they need to be in charge of what goes in and out from A to Z. With the iPhone 3G and its App Store, they necessarily need to cede some control.
CrunchGear: Morons in Motion. “Mr IT” is a dying breed, heading for an early death after spending his life drinking too much Jolt Cola and getting fat on pizza in the Eighties while trying to code in Fortran, Pascal, getting DOS to run Excel, and teaching his kid how to program in LOGO to control that funny little robot thing with a pen attached to it connected to an RS232 port. “Mr IT” is being superseded by Mr “Yes I can do that”, recently graduated from college, who grew up using a Mac, an iPod, and has an iPhone.
Hasta la vista Mr IT Man; you just got EOL’d. But don’t worry, you can take your IT hell with you into retirement by setting up a Vista-based home entertainment system that crashes, a Zune that won’t squirt, an XBox which will break every 3 months with the “red circle of death”, and a PC so ridden with viruses you’ll never get a free moment to get around to visiting the doctor for that check-up which would have revealed you’re at risk of a fatal coronary until its too late.
Best of all? When they do finally cart you off to the hospital, you’ll be seen by a doctor who will take X-Rays, and later examine on them on his iPhone.
Ahhh the sheer humiliation of it all. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
The IT guys see the writing on the wall and they are scared s$%tless. They’ve had control and “power” and they were the “gurus” of their world. They see all that evaporating in an instant, when Apple walks into the room. IMO, they’ve *always* realized what a threat Macs were to their world and that’s why they have tried to debunk Mac/Apple at every opportunity. Now the “halo” is beginning to spin things out of control and they’re going to get sucked into the vortex.
For the investors that got into RIM five years ago, they’ve already made more money than both Apple and Google investors, so if they get out now, they should be more than satisfied. I can understand their loyalty. I doubt if they are going to abandon ship even with the iPhone onslaught. You might figure in the face of impending disaster of Apple’s iPhone worldwide sales and corporate sales potential, RIM investors would start dumping stock. So far it just doesn’t appear the case.
This isn’t about me favoring RIM over Apple since I have 10X the amount of Apple shares than I have of RIM. It’s just me recognizing what RIM has pulled off with such a small amount of fanfare. One store, a couple of commercials, no yearly on-stage announcements, almost unknown CEO. Just a handful of BlackBerrys, multiple carriers and a BES solution. It really seems like an amazing accomplishment for a one-trick pony.
Although the iPhone will certainly make inroads into IT, it will take time. So far the biggest complaint with the iPhone in IT is that it takes too much effort to deploy applications to thousands of iPhones. Whether Apple will change this policy in time, I don’t know. It’s too early to speculate on whether the iPhone will take over BlackBerry’s position. Yes, the iPhone will gain corporate market share, but it may not be significant enough to hurt RIM anytime soon.
Today, although both Apple and RIM got upgraded, yet RIM is the one showing a bit more strength. Too me, it seems the doubling of iPhone sales in 2009 would be the stronger upgrade. RIM is forecasted to easily exceed fiscal first quarter estimates. They’re probably right. I’m curious to see the outcome of how close RIM’s share price comes to Apple’s share price this month.
The year is still young and the iPhone 3G hasn’t started selling yet, so there is still much to look forward to in upward share price movement. It’s just vexing watching Apple stock moving up and then dropping suddenly while RIM seems relatively rock steady in it’s climb these last six months.
[quote author=“Constable Odo”]
This isn’t about me favoring RIM over Apple since I have 10X the amount of Apple shares than I have of RIM. It’s just me recognizing what RIM has pulled off with such a small amount of fanfare. One store, a couple of commercials, no yearly on-stage announcements, almost unknown CEO. Just a handful of BlackBerrys, multiple carriers and a BES solution. It really seems like an amazing accomplishment for a one-trick pony.
This is a great example that shows on wall street all that matters are the profits your company makes. Not if your product is good, CEO is fun, and owners are satisfied. If I can invent a widget that sells for a penny on the dollar when other widgets sell for 99 cents on the dollar, my stock would skyrocket no matter how many landfills my useless widget ends up filling.
Someone, I believe here on AFB, wrote awhile back about RIM,
Their one trick pony is a one trick pony.
What a beautiful and relevant statement. I don’t despise RIM at all, although I used to have a Blackberry at my former job (thought it was a POS) and hated it. The dinky querty keyboard is absolutely stupid imo. I still remember attending meetings where half those in attendance were too busy typing messages on their Blackberries to pay attention to the meeting. Progress was difficult with this company.
The truth is there is absolutely no comparison between RIM and Apple. The short term strong performance for RIMM will not last, as Apple, with multiple engines of corporate performance, has targeted iPhone directly at RIM’s one trick pony. Apple has done remarkably well with iPhone in its first year, despite several limitations for iPhone 1.0. The 3G version removes many of these “issues”, and the new version will pose a much more serious threat to RIM’s business.
[quote author=“iBill”]Someone, I believe here on AFB, wrote awhile back about RIM,
Their one trick pony is a one trick pony.
What a beautiful and relevant statement. I don’t despise RIM at all, although I used to have a Blackberry at my former job (thought it was a POS) and hated it. The dinky querty keyboard is absolutely stupid imo. I still remember attending meetings where half those in attendance were too busy typing messages on their Blackberries to pay attention to the meeting. Progress was difficult with this company.
The truth is there is absolutely no comparison between RIM and Apple. The short term strong performance for RIMM will not last, as Apple, with multiple engines of corporate performance, has targeted iPhone directly at RIM’s one trick pony. Apple has done remarkably well with iPhone in its first year, despite several limitations for iPhone 1.0. The 3G version removes many of these “issues”, and the new version will pose a much more serious threat to RIM’s business.
For me, the biggest deal about the iPhone is simply having the internet in one’s pocket. For example: Go to a store; see something shiny; find it on the web and ask the store to match price. That’s cool! iPhone paid for itself.
As I pointed out earlier in the intraday thread (edited for closing numbers):
Another day with more of the same…
While the broader markets are all down, RIMM gets two bullish notes from analysts this morning, so what does their stock do? Why, it closes up 1.6% on the positive outlook, of course. Markets be damned.
AAPL gets two more bullish notes from analysts to add to the three they got yesterday, so what does their stock do? Why, it closes down by a greater percentage (-1.5%) than the broader markets, of course. Upgrades be damned.
[quote author=“jwarren2001”]As I pointed out earlier in the intraday thread (edited for closing numbers):
Another day with more of the same…
While the broader markets are all down, RIMM gets two bullish notes from analysts this morning, so what does their stock do? Why, it closes up 1.6% on the positive outlook, of course. Markets be damned.
AAPL gets two more bullish notes from analysts to add to the three they got yesterday, so what does their stock do? Why, it closes down by a greater percentage (-1.5%) than the broader markets, of course. Upgrades be damned.
Incomprehensible. :x
Do keep in mind that AAPL was up about $10 over the last two days.
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