As a relatively new Mac user (I bought a TiBook last fall—my first Mac), I hope my comments will not be discounted. I couldn’t be happier with my Mac; I’ll NEVER buy another Wintel machine. That being said, I find the “Us vs. Them” mentality of Mac users to be, at best, childish; at it’s worst, it is defeatist and counter-productive.
Comments about the “common enemy” in Redmond highlight this. Bill Gates is your bogeyman; if it weren’t for him, all would be right with the world. This is a pointless and destructive attitude. It’s as though the Mac community is not FOR anything; you are simply the anti-Windows crowd. You all seem to want to believe that The Raptor of Redmond is the reason Macs don’t rule the desktop universe. The truth is much less palatable; Wintel rules because Apple made some bad business decisions. Mac may be the best thing going (I definitely believe it is), but being the best cannot, in and of itself, put one at the top of the hill.
Apple lately has been making what appears to an outsider like myself to be very intelligent business decisions. Somebody noted that OS 9 is played out; that is correct. Microsoft XP is INCREDIBLY stable, one of Apple’s claims to fame. XP is, by almost all accounts, more stable than OS 9. If Apple didn’t move beyond OS 9, where would they be as a company? The die-hard Mac users might still be true, but where would the new users come from? Who would knowingly adopt a less stable, non-compatible (in many cases) platform? Apple would bury itself if it did not move beyond OS 9.
As has been noted, some healthy argument within any community is a normal and healthy thing. It brings insight and innovation. Apple is reaching a larger customer base, and that is to its benefit. It is also a benefit to all Mac users. Apple has to do what it can to grow—a static customer base is, ultimately, a shrinking customer base. Mac users have a lot to be happy about. We have the best platform, ever increasing networkability with Windows (check out Walt Mossberg’s column in today’s Wall Street Journal), and the easiest (and often most functional) to use applications.
I genuinely hope that these heated debates going on are limited to a few geeks like myself who ought to be working instead of posting. The Mac world has a lot to be happy about.
[quote author=“Fletch”][quote author=“Anonymous”]As far as I’m concerned, the “Mac OS” is dead. For Jobs to even Call OS X “Mac OS” is blasphemy of the highest order. It’s Unix people - face it. If I wanted to run Unix I certainly wouldn’t do it on a $3,000 computer. I’d buy a totally tricked out PC for $400 and run Linux. My days of buying overpriced computers from Apple are over. I’m certainly not going to get rid of my upgraded Power Mac 8500 running oS 9.1, but I’m not interested in funding the Apple execs 401ks anymore!
I’m not sure what you’re Linux exposure is, but it is certainly no where near as user friendly as OS X. Linux is a great OS, but really only for geeks at the moment. OS X blends the familiar Mac OS with a Unix core. Apple is justified in calling their OS Mac OS X because it has brought the majority of the classic Mac GUI to the Unix masses.
I respect your love for OS 9. I use it everyday on my desk next to my OS X server, but OS X is the future and we all need to realise that Apple needs to move on from legacy code. OS 9 had gone as far as it could. If Apple would have kept it going much longer they would have lost any leads they still had left.
Pete
I do believe that the move towards the Unix platform was not one of increased stability. Think about this, Unix (and Linux) take a lot less resources to operate at quick speeds. Apple is so behind the eightball when it comes to technology, Unix is a nice fit for Apples out-of-date systems.
If any of you are familiar with Robert M. Pirsig, something he wrote in one of his books could be applied here…
For years Macs were rather largely derided and scorned. The overall reaction to this was that those of us who used them tended to band together to face the hostility coming in from the outside.
But honestly, some of the criticism was warranted… the outdated Classic operating system, the higher priced hardware… the continued reliance on somewhat proprietary technologies… etc…
Maybe, just maybe, deep down we took some of this to heart and felt the need to evangelize our platform of choice.
Pirsig talks about how your fanatics and zealots of the world operate not because of complete and utter faith in what they believe in but because of some sort of underlying shakiness in their faith. For instance, nobody goes out in the world and shouts at the top of their lungs about how the sun is going to rise in the morning because, barring some cataclysmic cosmic event, it will.
You have Mac users who for years have been chided about their platform suddenly seeing the former persecutors noticing the new and improved Operating System, the stylish hardware… you have pundits and large publications suddenly espousing the virtues of Mac… and now all of the old evangelists are sort of like… “Um… yeah. That’s what we’re saying all along…”
I think what we’re seeing now is all this energy that was spent defending the Mac platform being refocused inward to some degree and it taking the form of a more critical look at Apple and the things it does, as opposed to feeling some innate need to defend it at all costs from the “unwashed barbarians” who used to criticize it at every turn. This is probably more healthy in the long run for the Macintosh platform and our user base as a whole.
(sorry to write this as guest, I wanted to get this out and didn’t have time to register) =)
Apple management might have done some stupid things lately (.Mac pricing being Exhibit A), but taken as a whole, this is a great time to be both a Mac user and a Mac advocate.
Cutting-edge kick-ass operating system? Check!
Awesome applications like iMovie, iDVD, and iTunes? Check!
Amazing new technology arriving now or coming soon (iPod, Rendezvous, Firewire 2)? Check!
Newfound respect for Apple and its products? Check!
Increased exposure both in advertising and in retail? Check!
Dissention in the ranks of Microsoft? Check!
(Okay, the processors aren’t the best in the world, but that’s a Motorola problem, not an Apple problem. And multiprocessor PowerMacs help address the issue for the time being, IMO)
The closest thing I’ve seen to “dissention in the ranks” are the folks who are happy with MacOS 9 and want to stick with it. As long as they’re not throwing rocks at the MacOS X users, more power to ‘em—everyone should use whatever computer that helps them do their tasks well. But for those of us in the know (and you don’t have to be a UNIX guru to be one of these folks), MacOS X is poised to kick lots of ass and take lots of names.
Steve Jobs has been back at the helm of Apple for five years, and a lot has changed in the intern. Now that MacOS X is out of the get-it-working-and-squash-the-bugs phase, I predict we’re going to see so much more advancement in the next five years that everyone reading this will get vertigo in just three.
(Okay, the processors aren’t the best in the world, but that’s a Motorola problem, not an Apple problem. And multiprocessor PowerMacs help address the issue for the time being, IMO)
Woo-hoo! Bring it on!
What? Not an Apple problem? Since Apple is putting these processors in their computers, it’s an Apple problem.
Stuffing mulitple processors into the PowerMac just so it has a prayer of keeping up with a single chip Intel P-4 machine, is not addressing the issue.
(Sorry for being “Guest” - giving up trying to remember passwords (pls don’t mention the options - i know them)
I suggest that if Apple has cultivated the Mac community it has been through disdain. In their entire history they have rarely “Done” anything for their users that was not first and foremost, exceedingly profitable. Even going back to the ‘70s & ‘80s this is true. Their marketers are not “users”.
As frustrating as that has been at times for those of us whose livelyhoods depend on Apple, I am clear that for Apple to exist it’s number one responsibility is to make money. A loyal community of users (their market) is there to be bled up to a difficult to guage point approaching death (maximizing profit vs elasticity of demand).
If they had a much larger market share it might dissapate only somewhat.
I, for one, think that OS-X upgrade should be nominally priced until OS-X provides all the capabilities I already paid for in the past. I hope that Jaguar delivers on the hype - but 10.15 is still not fully up to par with 9.x.
Well I think that the PC community (PC-Heads) are doing their best to kill the moral in the Mac community by spreading FUD with their usual tangents. The sad part to this whole thing is that the Mac community is letting it happen since our moral isn’t as high as it was 2 years ago due to waiting for Apple to put us back in the limelight as having the fastest, most stable and most fun machine around. Though 2 out of 3 are apparent (stable and fun), the speed crown has been taken away from our grasp after about 10 years of owning that crown (for the most part). Like a lot of concerned (and positive) Mac users have pointed out that the more emotional (and negative) Mac users are trying to sink the ship without even knowing they’re doing it. This is scary to us folks who want to see the Mac around 20 years from now. Yes Apple has an uphill battle, but I think for the most part they are delivering and they are fulfilling our demands. We cry, and they comfort. Okay .Mac isn’t something they will give away (though we would like it that way), but Apple needs to make money in order to survive, and if they don’t make money, then we are all going to lose in the end and will have to purchase Dells soon after (OUCH!)!
We have to stick together and if something that needs to be addressed where Apple is concerned then the very sites we browse day in and day out will help us sound our voice by using a more positive approach than the stuff we have been seeing lately. We have a great platform, it’s not perfect, but it’s something we enjoy using and we need to suck it up and help Apple move forward and stop all of this nonsense before it turns around and bites us in the ?@#$%^&*!
I have a slightly different take on all the complaining. I believe it comes from genuine caring about the Mac platform. While much of the talk comes out as whining, a lot of the anger directed at Cupertino these days comes from a belief that Apple is making mistakes that will cost them, and therefore the entire Mac community, in the long run. We’re scared that Apple is making moves that will lead to reduced market share. If that happens Mac users will become marginalized even further than we already are. None of us wants to be struggling to find software for an overpriced machine commanding only 2% of the market.
I think we’re also scared that Apple doesn’t know how to grow. The last time Apple actually had a significant increase in market share was the 1970’s. Since the introduction of the original Macintosh in 1984 the market share held by Apple has, more or less, been in constant decline. Apple has only grown in raw figures because the number of people in its market niches has grown.
Apple’s very survival as a company has for many years been based on the rabid loyalty of half the customer base. The other half comes and goes. The original iMac craze created a lot of new Mac owners, but I doubt many of them were from the ranks of frustrated Performa owners. Once bitten, twice shy. There is no third time lucky.
My analysis of the situation leads to a Douglas Adams suggestion, don’t panic. The core Mac evangelists are doing a lot of complaining, but they’re not jumping ship. If they ever do, however, Steve will find himself running one company instead of two.
The really vehement distaste that I have been seeing coming from supposed long time Apple supporters, makes me wonder if what we are seeing is really a disinformation program sponsored by someone who doesn’t like the switch campaign.
Get it through your heads. The “statistics” regarding Mac market share are skewed and biased. They are based not on number of machines in use, but by current sales.
Macs last a LOT Longer than most, if not all, of the other personal computer boxes. You pay for quality, you get quality. As for being overpriced, get real.
In June:
G4 700 iMac, 512 Mb Ram, speakers, OS X, iApps galore, Educational Price list $1,733.
compare this to a comparable (speed and feature wise)
P4 1.8 Ghz Dell, add ethernet, add flat panel, add sound card, add speakers, add memory. NONE of these are built-in like they are on Macs. (Don’t be fooled by a $699 PC folks!) Dell Educational Price $1,826.
If you want Dell’s top of the line processor, tack on another $500+.
I say they are comparable because I have used both machines.
Don’t hand me that over priced garbage. They’re single processors in their towers are NOT equal to the PPC. They may do some things fast, but they don’t process 18 gigaflops of information per second.
As a long-time Mac user (since 1984), I’ve watched as the mood of the community of Mac users has varied over the years. I think what we’re seeing now is incredible frustration. And yes, we have a much more diverse user base since MacOS X was released that contributes to that. However much we tout the power of the PowerPC, clock cycle to clock cycle, the reality is that we’ve all watched Intel/AMD speed up their processors to the point that brute force has overcome our advantage. That, combined with Moto’s basically dropping of the development of the G4 desktop processor is threatening Apple’s very future, and we all see it. We love the elegance of our user interface, the simplicity of configuring almost anything, and now the power and stability of MacOS X. What we’re missing is an adequate CPU to move ahead with. Apple’s latest PowerMac’s are clear evidence that we’re now moving away from Motorola and back to IBM for the G5. Motorola has announced NO PowerPC processor that would need the new PowerMac case. The massive cooling in the new case, the new controller chip and motherboard, the DDR memory that the G4’s can’t take much advantage of, IBM’s building a new plant to manufacture a new Power4-derivative desktop chip, IBM’s meeting to discuss this chip’s technology on October 15th… I think Apple’s hardware direction is crystal clear, if unannounced, and I expect we’ll hear an earful in the next several months. The only question to me is when this will all come together…
That said, many users aren’t aware of all this happening, and Apple’s certainly not going to do anything to stop sales. So, all most users assume is that Apple’s going to continue to stumble along hoping Motorola, which has redirected its attention to embedded processors, will actually produce a faster desktop chip, while Apple tweaks the rest of the system periodically along the way as we wait. I don’t think that’s going to happen. I think Apple’s currently just trying to build up its cash reserves with the inflexible OS upgrade price, the .Mac fees, and the latest PowerMacs, just in case something delays IBM in producing large enough quantities of the new G5 soon enough. After all, on October 15th the official and public speculation on the new IBM PowerPC processor is probably going to kill Mac sales for the remainder of the fall, unless IBM clearly states Apple is NOT the quantity customer they’re expecting to sell this processor to. If not, everyone will be expecting the new systems with the new processor to be announced at MWSF in January, and will wait for it. Think what that will do to Apple’s quarterly earnings…
Apple’s made a lot of marketing mistakes over the years, but through it all, they’ve continued to produce products that define computing excellence and ease of use. My fear, which drives my frustration, is that that will all end, and I’ll be forced over to another OS. That would be much more than a cultural change, it would be a technical nightmare. Apple IS the industry’s R&D for how a personal computer should work.
I believe Dave Marsh has added even more data to the contention that Motorola has failed to live up to expectations with the G4/G5 development. If Apple continues to rely on Motorola for future processor development, Apple will definitely be in trouble.
The article reference provided in Mr. Marsh’s post is an interesting take on the whole thing. It suggests the latest PowerMac G4 is a compromise design built out of frustration over Motorola’s failure to keep up processor development. I’m not sure of the author’s sources, but the scenario seems to make a lot of sense.
If the past is any indication, Apple will weather this storm and come out of it even better than before. In the meantime, let’s just all relax, give the wife a kiss, hug the children, take the dog for a walk, give your mom and dad a call. Life’s too damn short to be worried about this stuff all the time.
I see some of what has been discussed in this thread. A lot of Mac users, myself included, don’t use OS X as our primary Mac OS. My reasons are primarily hardware based. My iMac is not overly powerful, and OS 9 runs perfectly on it. So much of the software I use on my Mac runs smoothly, and the software that I use makes me money, so switching to OS X is not a huge goal. Will I use OS X? Of course! I am upgrading my system when Jaguar arrives, but even then, I will not throw OS 9 away. I will stick with a dual boot machine.
Now, as far as I can tell, the single biggest rift in the Mac world revolves around OS X migration. Apple, regardless of what they say, is not happy with the number of OS X users, and I see them brewing up all sorts of ways to force users to switch… iPhoto runs only on OS X, and I am sure future versions of Final Cut Pro will run only on OS X. I don’t blame Apple for wanting to switch, but I also don’t blame Mac users who want to use OS 9. I know a lot of people on the PC side who still use Windows 98 SE and refuse to upgrade or change… their OS of choice works, and that is what they want.
One day, and I don’t know when, Apple will begin selling new Macs with only one operating system… OS X. When this occurs, a lot of the controversy will end.
Who wants unity? We are not at war with each with the Wintel world are we?
I hope not.
Here is the Bad news: Apple is not perfect.
Here is the Good news: Apple is not perfect.
It seems that many people are upset that Apple is charging for its services and product upgrades. That .Mac is playing the same game as MicroSoft with .Net.
I don’t think that Apple should charge for Jaguar but that is just my opinion. I maybe wrong, it maybe a great decision on Apple’s part to charge for it. I would think that if Apple wants everyone to make the jump to OSX it would make it very easy and accessible to everyone. However, it could be such a great leap that most will find it worth the $129 price tag. And help full Apple’s market share.
I think the problem is not “unity†in the Mac community it is rather most of us don’t understand the method to Apple’s madness. So, we have become frustrated and fragmented.
I think it is a good think that Apple is not perfect. Why, because I see it as a double edged sword. On one hand while it frustrates many of us, it also leaves room to strive for perfection on Apple’s part.
I realize that the processor issue is also a point at which the “Mac Community†is divided. A couple of years ago when the G4 came out all of us felt that it was the best processor money could buy. Today, many Mac-heads are calling for more MHz just to be able to rationalize their preference for a Mac.
Mac people don’t like to hear PC people same that a Wintel box is cheaper and faster. And many Mac people really don’t like to hear Mac owners complain. I think it is because we take this all way too personally.
We are passionate people, who love what we do and how we do it. We don’t want to be wrong or behind anybody.
But that it’s OK to be wrong sometimes. It is OK to debate. I think as the Mac community grows there will be even more debate. The import word here is growth. Growth is good. As long as it is not too fast. Sustained steady growth is really what a corporation needs for long term health.
If we have learned anything in this year of corporate scandals is that fast growth can lead to a huge flame out.
So, the way I see it is we are going through “growing pains.†And that is good.
Who knows what Jobs has up his sleeve. I wonder what is going on over at IBM. Will the G5 chip make all this a mute point?
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