I just noticed something that I must confess: I went over to Maccentral’s site today (boo and hiss the “enemy”!). And I saw something that turned me off; I didn’t know it was a turn off until today: the reply threads on their articles. They must have a zillion responses that are either inane or insane. Sure, we wish that TMO will get continual increase in the number of people participating in these forums, but at what cost? Imagine trying to have a conversation with 30 million people.

I see this on the PC sites like ZDNet, also. I love reading responses, but when there are hundreds of them and many of are mini, rhetorical p*ssing contests, I move on to the next page/site.

Am I just “jealous” that Maccentral generates more interest in their forums and this is my weak attempt to bash their site, or is this a sincere part of my minimalist mentality?

Am I alone in this thought. I like chatting with you guys, but if there were several hundred more of you—talking incessantly!—could I “hang” with that?

Hey, even flames are welcome on this one!

_________________
“Free your mind & your butt will follow…”

Rodney O. Lain
Mac Observer Columnist, iBrotha’s page at TMO

iBrotha.com, .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iBrotha on 2001-08-09 08:30 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iBrotha on 2001-08-09 21:46 ]</font>

I have mixed feelings about this Rodney. I in one way like the fact that TMO isn’t so huge with 1000s of ppl in forums. I also post at MacFixit every now and then, but if you haven’t been there for two days, there are sometimes hundreds of replies to topics waiting for you go through.
On the other hand would every forum admin like to see as much ppl posting in their forums. So getting the ideal forum is a bit of both sides. Enough ppl to keep it alive (something that IMHO is happening here) but not so much that you drown in the posts.

YMMV

You HAVE to be talking about the absolutely deplorable Mac vs PC debate that raged there yesterday.  Its almost enough to make you vomit.  You get one PC rube in there who knows how to push buttons, and you get a bunch of steamy headed Mac protectionists thinking that responding to a Troll is going to actually change something.

The way the talk backs at both Mac Central and ZDNet/zdnn go, there is no accountability.  At least ZDNet is moderated but you almost doubt that sometimes as they seem to let every piece of garbage through.  Mac Central is the enter of all that is wrong with computer users today, there is so much negativity there that I don’t go to that site nearly as much as I used to.  I have been trying to wean myself off and find alternatives.

I like TMO’s combination of people and quality of posts.  I feel like I KNOW the people I’m talking to, especially Dingo, scottk, Retro, and others who post here quite often.  It has a more home-like feel to it.

On the other hand, perhaps the best example of a forum-gone-bad is the Dave Matthews Band oriented DMBML forums (http://www.dmbml.com/interact/).  There are more than a hundred thousand registered users and there are so many discussions going on (often duplicating a discussion from another thread).  These people can get really hostile, really quickly because of the insanity of the forum.  I posted once, and came back five minutes later and my post was already pushed off the front page (fifty topics per page).  I think DMBML has an average of one post every 15 seconds or less.  That is a forum gone bad, don’t you think?

Brad

I would say that it depends on the signal-to-noise of the fora. Here the signal-to-noise is high, for now, but adding more people would probably drag it down to a lower value, driving away some who add signal to the noise, which reduces the S/N, which ...

Admittedly, I, of all people, am not helping that, so I’ll be quiet now. (“Yeah, right!” from the crowd.)

There is a huge difference between forums and article talk-back features like MacCentral’s and our own Comments.  I have found some really good stuff in our comments, but the discussion does tend to quickly get out of control in volatile topic articles. 

Our forums, on the other hand, have developed remarkably well.  We have maintained an enormously high signal-to-noise ratio even while seeing the traffic growing with the member base. 

The key to this IMNHO is to never tolerate BS.  TMO’s mods don’t, and the people that tend to hang out here seem to appreciate that.  They in turn hang out more and also jump all over those few who have posted BS.  This grows in itself as tbone1’s progression does, but they are opposite in nature.  We seem, so far, to be able to create the atmosphere that we want to create merely by being here. 

Can we keep it up in perpetuity?  I hope so. The site is certainly growing in leaps and bounds, and the things we have in the works will definitely continue that. As the site grows, so will the forums.  The task them becomes to make sure the forums grow in the way that we want them to.

My philosophy on this is to add the kinds of forums we have in the same organized manner in which we started them.  I also intend to keep picking Mods who share my philosophy (more or less) on what makes for good discussion.  By kicking out the WAREZ kids,  shutting down the flamers, etc. I think we will continue to have the “right” kind of environment.  Will our forums grow to the point where you can’t keep on top of every post?  Probably.  I think, however, we can keep things organized so that our members can keep track of the topics they want to participate in.

Version 2.0 of phpBB will really help with this too.  We have some other hacks we will be adding that will help out in this area too.

I very much appreciate this discussion, and I definitely am soliciting more feedback on this.  I NEVER want these forums to get to the point where *I* don’t want to hang out.  With everyone’s input and participation, I think we can make sure it never happens. 

A missed point here is that “Talk-back” style forums almost encourage users to react not respond. Almost a shoot-from-the-hip attitude. Being anonymous seems to encourage dumb posts.

Forums that encourage registration are usually better because it takes (slightly) more effort to post. People who take the time to sign in usually only do so when they really have something to say.
-Dan

Even as fast as this place is growing we are able to keep the signal to noise respectable and that is a sign of mature and resposible leadership and direction. For that we all have to be greatful to Bryan and the other mods as well as to the registered users of these forums who always take a step back before jumping on that reply key and starting flame wars. So I say as long as temperance rules TMO will always be the classiest forum on the web

DAVE