Obama, New STIMULUS PROGRAM, Pyramid Building?

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    Posted: 04 March 2009 01:38 AM

    Hey, why not, it would be FAR CHEAPER than bailing out every plutocrat with a bank or union clout behind them, donchathink?

    [ Edited: 04 March 2009 01:40 AM by TanToday ]

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    “Even in the worst of times, someone turns a profit. . ” —#162 Ferengi: Rules of Acquisition

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 05:50 AM #1

    He is building a pyramid. A debt one. Wages slaves will be paying it off for generations.

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    Throughout all my years of investing I’ve found that the big money was never made in the buying or the selling. The big money was made in the waiting. ? Jesse Livermore

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 11:04 AM #2

    The power base is being solidified. The move from the private sector to government dependance.  As our economy worsens, we look more and more to the government for solutions.

      -      “Government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.”

    The markets look toward Washington each day for it’s indicators now.

    :apple:

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 11:14 AM #3

    MacCube - 04 March 2009 03:04 PM

    The power base is being solidified. The move from the private sector to government dependance.  As our economy worsens, we look more and more to the government for solutions.

      -      “Government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.”

    The markets look toward Washington each day for it’s indicators now.

    :apple:

    Golly, what’s wrong with looking to our government for help?

    Please excuse me now as I grope around in the dark for the government feedbag.

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    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 12:00 PM #4

    By far the biggest and most upsetting outrage of my lifetime.  If anyone knows of a country with lower Federal taxes and a less obtrusive government, please PM me.  I’d just LOVE to take off at this point.  Why contribute to a system that is just take take take?

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    The ends don’t justify the means…

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 12:02 PM #5

    Mayor Quimby - 04 March 2009 04:00 PM

    By far the biggest and most upsetting outrage of my lifetime.  If anyone knows of a country with lower Federal taxes and a less obtrusive government, please PM me.  I’d just LOVE to take off at this point.  Why contribute to a system that is just take take take?

    Panama.

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    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 12:12 PM #6

    Little unnoticed thing for my KJV friends.

    Note that the upper and lower crown has BOTH a Vulture/Buzzard AND a Viper situated right on the FOREHEAD.

    Typeology?

    Actually, the more I look at him the more the image of Pharonic Leader with an ego to match, seems to fit.

    [ Disclosure, I did not vote for him, OR the other guy, tweedle dee and tweedle dum isn’t the range of choices that motivate me today…]

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    “Even in the worst of times, someone turns a profit. . ” —#162 Ferengi: Rules of Acquisition

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 12:18 PM #7

    Eric Landstrom - 04 March 2009 03:14 PM

    Golly, what’s wrong with looking to our government for help?

    Please excuse me now as I grope around in the dark for the government feedbag.

    In some ways your right. Our new president could make one speech and turn the markets and the economy around. He would only need to say: Cut or eliminate capital gains taxes for at least a couple of years. Do not allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire. And no new back door taxes, such as Cap and Trade, which will cost everyone with higher energy prices. The Bull Market would be history making. So yes, the government could help, by getting out of the way. Very simple, just one speech.

     

    :apple:

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 01:03 PM #8

    Sad.  Again with the cry for capital gains cuts? Give it up, it ain’t happening. Didn’t work before, so why would it magically work now? That’s the only solution that Repubs have. I hear no constructive ideas except to give YOU more money. The constant criticism of a guy who inherited the biggest pile of crap in American history is astounding. Where were your screams of outrage the last year of the Bush administration’s do nothing approach as the ship was sinking? Where were you when they were running up huge debt the last 8 years? Didn’t hear any complaints from Repubs with the TRILLION + spent in Iraq. Now, magically they’re fiscal conservatives. Give me a break.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 01:16 PM #9

    MacCube - 04 March 2009 04:18 PM
    Eric Landstrom - 04 March 2009 03:14 PM

    Golly, what’s wrong with looking to our government for help?

    Please excuse me now as I grope around in the dark for the government feedbag.

    In some ways your right. Our new president could make one speech and turn the markets and the economy around. He would only need to say: Cut or eliminate capital gains taxes for at least a couple of years. Do not allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire. And no new back door taxes, such as Cap and Trade, which will cost everyone with higher energy prices. The Bull Market would be history making. So yes, the government could help, by getting out of the way. Very simple, just one speech.
    :apple:

    The bull market and slashing capital gains taxes already did make history - and crashed.  The Bush administration tried to get out of the way of regulation and slashed taxes as much as possible.  It drove extremely high leveraged investments and borrowing.  The crux of the matter is over extended credit: simply too much borrowed money. 

    It is not necessary to return to those types of policies for our economy to succeed.  Soros, Buffet and Apple,  all are financial conservatives yet support policies different than the ones that led to this mess (which, honestly, are not ultimately political in origin- they are greed related). 

    So, lets consider that there might, (just might) be other ways to operate.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 02:17 PM #10

    Bryanyc - 04 March 2009 05:16 PM
    MacCube - 04 March 2009 04:18 PM
    Eric Landstrom - 04 March 2009 03:14 PM

    Golly, what’s wrong with looking to our government for help?

    Please excuse me now as I grope around in the dark for the government feedbag.

    In some ways your right. Our new president could make one speech and turn the markets and the economy around. He would only need to say: Cut or eliminate capital gains taxes for at least a couple of years. Do not allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire. And no new back door taxes, such as Cap and Trade, which will cost everyone with higher energy prices. The Bull Market would be history making. So yes, the government could help, by getting out of the way. Very simple, just one speech.
    :apple:

    The bull market and slashing capital gains taxes already did make history - and crashed.  The Bush administration tried to get out of the way of regulation and slashed taxes as much as possible.  It drove extremely high leveraged investments and borrowing.  The crux of the matter is over extended credit: simply too much borrowed money. 

    It is not necessary to return to those types of policies for our economy to succeed.  Soros, Buffet and Apple,  all are financial conservatives yet support policies different than the ones that led to this mess (which, honestly, are not ultimately political in origin- they are greed related). 

    So, lets consider that there might, (just might) be other ways to operate.

    But I have no debt. Why am I dinged when I carry no debt whatsoever?

    The market would rally like you’ve never seen if the investor class had a good reason to put their money to work thereby reversing every inclination to rip the nation apart at the seems because of stupid policy decisions. Right now the investor class is content to short every sector into the ground until food riots force the government to do something constructive. As one commenter astutely remarked:

    The recovery will start only after the Obama administration produces a recovery plan based on common sense; it’s obvious that the investors soundly rejected the Obama plan based on political agenda. If the economy keeps going down the drain at the same rate, even the most die-hard imbeciles will start having second thoughts.

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    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 02:28 PM #11

    Go back and read Eric’s post about Panama. Why would this little countries economy be booming with investments? Why would tax reductions work for a little Banana Republic and not for the United States? What would bring all of that money back to this country? Yes, lets keep raising our taxes, lets help Panama some more.


    Question, if raising taxes is the answer, then how much higher does our government need to raise taxes to bring back our economy?



    :apple:

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 02:54 PM #12

    This thread and many other recent comments by a group of dedicated conservative capitalists on this forum is disturbing, and is not what TMO is supposed to be for.  These rantings are almost certainly wrong, and should be relegated to a Fox News or Rush forum, where they will get a more sympathetic audience.  As for me, I consider the state of the economy pathetic, and caused by the “borrow-and-spend, greed is good, and regulation is bad” spirit of 28 years of Republican governance.  It has been a huge mistake and we are only beginning to see the ramifications.

    Thank God Steve Jobs is a Democrat, or we would have had a corporation that went for the quick bucks at the expense of long-term building, much like Dell.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 02:59 PM #13

    I see your point.

    Let’s just be more like Panama.

    Population less than Brooklyn, always an epitome of democracy.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 03:05 PM #14

    Bryanyc - 04 March 2009 06:59 PM

    I see your point.

    Let’s just be more like Panama.

    Population less than Brooklyn, always an epitome of democracy.

    Panama has become the second largest banking capital of the world.

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    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
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    Posted: 04 March 2009 03:30 PM #15

    If people don’t have jobs and companies continue to report dismal earnings and housing prices continue to decline than no amount of stimulus that only applies to the investing class is going to matter. No one pulled their money out of the market because cap. gains taxes were too high.

    We need to find a way to create jobs, period. I have four friends that lost jobs in the last four months. They could give a crap about investing right now. They’re sitting there wondering how they are going to make house payments, send their kids to college, pay for medical insurance, etc. in the coming months. These aren’t stupid people. All hard workers that lost jobs solely to the slowing economy.

    It seems as though people believe that if the stock market rallied then people would magically become employed. Apple could go to $200, would they all of a sudden be hiring people left and right? We need to create real jobs, not just financial wealth that’s top heavy and comes crashing down on everyone’s heads (except the folks that created it) when it doesn’t work.