Petition against raising tax on capital gains.

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    Posted: 11 March 2009 12:46 AM

    Sign the petition, send letters.

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    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
  • Posted: 11 March 2009 12:52 AM #1

    Does anybody currently have any capital gains to tax? As long as no one cuts my ability to deduct loses from last year I might be OK.  :wink:

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 01:05 AM #2

    DawnTreader - 11 March 2009 03:52 AM

    Does anybody currently have any capital gains to tax? As long as no one cuts my ability to deduct loses from last year I might be OK.  :wink:

    I’m sorry to hear of your loss. Please sign the petition.

    [ Edited: 11 March 2009 01:10 AM by Eric Landstrom ]

    Signature

    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 01:05 AM #3

    Indeed.  I’m set for a few years of capital gains deductions myself wink

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 01:16 AM #4

    From an overall economic perspective, I see absolutely no reason why capital gains should be taxed any differently than real work.  I argue that it is a way to reward stock speculators, while diminishing the value of people who work with their hands or perform useful work with their minds.  And I say that as a stock speculator.

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 01:50 AM #5

    firestorm - 11 March 2009 04:16 AM

    From an overall economic perspective, I see absolutely no reason why capital gains should be taxed any differently than real work.  I argue that it is a way to reward stock speculators, while diminishing the value of people who work with their hands or perform useful work with their minds.  And I say that as a stock speculator.

    Sign the petition or I’ll make you come to Minnesota and drink beer out of cans while I hurl insults at you.

    Signature

    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 03:17 AM #6

    Eric Landstrom - 11 March 2009 04:50 AM
    firestorm - 11 March 2009 04:16 AM

    From an overall economic perspective, I see absolutely no reason why capital gains should be taxed any differently than real work.  I argue that it is a way to reward stock speculators, while diminishing the value of people who work with their hands or perform useful work with their minds.  And I say that as a stock speculator.

    Sign the petition or I’ll make you come to Minnesota and drink beer out of cans while I hurl insults at you.

    Signed. I can’t stand beer out of cans, or taxes for that matter.

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 08:26 AM #7

    Beer in nitrogen charged cans is one of the greatest advances in beer drinking.  But, I’m with Firestorm.

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    The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled.

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 09:23 AM #8

    iBill - 11 March 2009 06:17 AM

    Signed. I can’t stand beer out of cans, or taxes for that matter.

    Completely Off Topic:  if you ever see it, check out “Dale’s Pale Ale.”.  It’s a pretty good locally brewed ale in a can!

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    “Once we roared like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security! The solution for America’s problem is not in terms of big government, but it is in big men over whom nobody stands in control but God.”  ?Norman Vincent Peale

         
  • Posted: 11 March 2009 09:31 AM #9

    Eric Landstrom - 11 March 2009 04:05 AM
    DawnTreader - 11 March 2009 03:52 AM

    Does anybody currently have any capital gains to tax? As long as no one cuts my ability to deduct loses from last year I might be OK.  :wink:

    I’m sorry to hear of your loss. Please sign the petition.

    You’re ruthless. AND you seem to be the only one that made money last year on this board.

    Signature

    “We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.” - Aesop

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 11:12 AM #10

    The problem is not just the mindset of whether or not I or anyone else have had any capital gains. It’s the affect on incentive that is so damaging. If you are successful, you will be punished. The very idea that raising taxes is acceptable, as long as it doesn’t affect me is sad.


    :apple:

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 12:07 PM #11

    In the current economic system (postindustrial—at least in the West—globalising capitalism?), capital is more mobile and more mercurial than labour.  (And of course at the present moment there’s no lack of labour eager for employment.)  It makes economic sense, therefore, to be a touch more ginger with disincentives (eg taxes or burdensome regulation) when applied to capital, and that’s pretty much how the Anglo-Saxon states have played the game these past few decades.  Some would say this valorisation of capital has not worked out for us after all.

    The current crisis has demonstrated just how ‘flighty’ capital can be.  It would seem now is not the ideal moment to lay additional disincentives on capital, given capital’s greatest fear (risk of losing it all), unleased by Lehman, is already romping all over the world, causing deleveraging and disinvestment everywhere.

    But politically (and to some extent ethically) the public sphere isn’t terribly keen on the big capital players, whether banks, funds, wealthy individuals, etc.  They are held responsible, of course, for our present difficulties, and the ramped-up government spending we hope will save us has to be funded by somebody.  More generally, it’s always struck most citizens as rather unfair that capital returns (mostly the purview of the rich) are taxed less than ‘honest labour’ (the principal source of income for the vast majority of tax-payers).

    So we’ve another classic dilemma where economic rationality must be trumped by political and ethical sentiment.  (I’d say the worst case of this right now is the government’s inability to wholly guarantee the banks owing to Main Street’s fierce animus towards bankers, their greed and their folly.  It’s just politically impossible, though most of us realise it would be the surest way to halt the downturn.)

    I understand the social and ethical reasons for taxing capital more aggressively, but I’m also economically literate enough to fear the possible consequences.  The Obama Administration is justifying many of the tax increases (and shrinking the shortfalls) by prophesying a healthy recovery by 2011.  Many observers do not share this optimism.  Even if taxes on capital (and upper-income earners) should be raised eventually, we probably ought to wait for a more propitious moment.

    Edited: the linked petition is to halt the ‘trading tax’.  I’ve even more ambivalent feelings towards a trading tax than higher capital-gains taxation.  Taxes on transactions aren’t exactly uncommon in other spheres.  I also have some sympathy towards the desire to reduce volatility whilst incentivising long-term investment (of course, that’s why we’ve a separate—and lower—capital-gains tax).  I doubt, however that this sort of tax would decrease volatility whilst maintaining liquidity (which most of us do think is a good thing for markets).

    [ Edited: 11 March 2009 12:17 PM by Winterpool ]

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    Posted: 11 March 2009 12:40 PM #12

    MacCube - 11 March 2009 02:12 PM

    If you are successful, you will be punished.

    “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 12:49 PM #13

    I signed the petition and I don’t even live in the US. It will no doubt hit me if the trader tax comes in.

    What these idiot clowns that dream up these taxes don’t appreciate is that a lot of money comes from out of the US to invest and trade in US companies. I have a significant sum in US dollars which I use to trade. If the trader tax comes in then I will have no alternative but to repatriate my funds back to the UK and trade CFDs instead. I imagine a lot of others (people and funds) will do similar. This won’t exactly help the US economy or the US dollar at a time when the US needs outside investment. So all that lovely loot that DeFazio thinks this will raise will be a fraction of what will actually be raised and will hit normal investors, and not the evil speculators that he thinks.

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    Throughout all my years of investing I’ve found that the big money was never made in the buying or the selling. The big money was made in the waiting. ? Jesse Livermore

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 01:05 PM #14

    If you are successful, you will be punished.

    The term “punished” comes straight from the Republican Party’s playbook.  If you want to talk punishment, talk about the effects of this downturn?which is a direct result of conservative economic policies since Ronald Reagan was President?on average people around the world.  They are the ones being really punished by this fiasco.

    Aside from that, wealthier people have the knowhow and incentive to generate more income for themselves.  A higher marginal tax will have a minimal adverse effect?certainly less in terms of the overall economy than letting huge deficits continue.

    If I was in an elfish mood, I would say that an increase in marginal tax rates on the rich will be an incentive for them to get off their lazy butts and work harder so that they don’t lose personal income. But I’m not in an elfish mood, or am I?

         
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    Posted: 11 March 2009 01:14 PM #15

    firestorm - 11 March 2009 04:05 PM

    If you are successful, you will be punished.

    The term “punished” comes straight from the Republican Party’s playbook.  If you want to talk punishment, talk about the effects of this downturn?which is a direct result of conservative economic policies since Ronald Reagan was President?on average people around the world.  They are the ones being really punished by this fiasco.

    Aside from that, wealthier people have the knowhow and incentive to generate more income for themselves.  A higher marginal tax will have a minimal adverse effect?certainly less in terms of the overall economy than letting huge deficits continue.

    If I was in an elfish mood, I would say that an increase in marginal tax rates on the rich will be an incentive for them to get off their lazy butts and work harder so that they don’t lose personal income. But I’m not in an elfish mood, or am I?

    This just in: Wall Street isn’t just the playground for the wealthy. A gains tax effects most American households. Sign the petition.

    Signature

    Black Swan Counter: 9 (Banks need money, Jobs needs a break, Geithner has no plan, Cuomo’s grandstanding, .Gov needs a hobby, GS works for money, flash crash, is that bubbling crude?).

    For those who look, a flash allows one to see farther.